Why does everyone rate Ibrahimovic so highly?

ERG89

GBXI wrote: »

Such an ignorant response. There is a very strong argument to be made that Zlatan is over-rated. Regularly, particularly in the last 4-5 seasons, you see his name come up in comparison with Ronaldo and Messi. As someone pointed out above, he isn't even in the Aguero, Suarez, Bale, Sanchez, Falcao bracket.

Two things that stand out for me, firstly, he never performed at one of the top teams in one of the top leagues (his Barca stint was short-lived). Secondly, when Mourinho took over at Inter he sold Zlatan for €35m and Samuel Eto'o. Inter went on to win everything and Barca wasted the most money since Chelsea spent 50mill on Torres.

Everything turned out great for Inter after that though and Etoò is still going strong........
He`s been more consistent than any of them players too.........

TheDoc

ERG89 wrote: »

Everything turned out great for Inter after that though and Etoò is still going strong........
He`s been more consistent than any of them players too.........

To be honest I just spotted Sanchez and absolutely burst my hole laughing.

OK so a good half season in the EPL is worth more then 14 seasons around Europe. That sorts that so

Sanchez who has one recorded season in proffesional football scoring 20+ if I'm not mistaken, during that whirlwind year for Barca, when he was playing off the wing.

I think Pedro has a 20+ season aswell for Barca, sure why not throw him in the mix?

Bale had his electric season for Spurs scoring 31 goals. Truely sensational stuff. Ibrahimovic scored 41 : /

willowthewisp

He has a consistent strike record of better than 1 in 2 games (0.57 gpp). Plus he tends to pick up league titles at almost every club he plays.
In addition he is a showman!!

Milkers

Since 2006 he has scored 179 goals in 257 club appearances.

bucketybuck

Ibrahimovic's biggest problem is Ronaldo and Messi, it used to be that a 1 in 2 goals per game ratio was superb but those two have raised the bar to 1 in 1, and the guys hitting 1 in 2 just don't seem as prolific any more.

His second biggest problem is that nobody cares about Italian football anymore, and nobody ever cared about French football.

Brussels Sprout

I think the three things that count against him over here are that:

• He's never played in the premiership.
• He's played for big european clubs all his career but the only one that gets much coverage over here is Barca where he was only a couple of seasons.
• He's supremely arrogant

Obviously this is all really short-sighted stuff. On top of his impressive goals/game ratio he has a history of scoring big goals at critical times. He's scored goals that have won leagues on the last day of the season and last minutes goals that have qualified Sweden for international tournaments.

Some of the goals he does score are ridiculous as well. He's got an amazing imagination. He tries and pulls off things that other players would think of as impossible (my personal favourite being that ridiculous overhead goal against England but also several karate kicks and flying backheels).

Guy:Incognito

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Maybe when they win 8 CL's in a row it will become a valid point, but now it's a retarded one.

Should I have put another couple of smilie faces in there for you?

Turtwig

Because he's absolute class! To top it all then he's quite the persona.

GBXI

Skylinehead wrote: »

Under which criteria? His goal record says otherwise.



So he performed at Barca, short-lived or not, and you still say he didn't? Which is it? And don't forget that Italian teams seemed to win the CL a lot when he was there, so that was one of the top leagues too.

His goals record is strong but as I said, he's not done it even for a short period at a top club. The ones I mentioned, admitedly bar Suarez (yet), have.

He didn't perform at Barca. He lasted one season at the club and he was one the biggest's wastes of money ever. The big teams obviously had an issue with him.

He was poor at Juve when AC were one of the best in Europe, but the league wasn't strong. The biggest slight against him is that Mourinho sold him and went on to win the treble with Inter and Eto'o as his striker instead.

Actually, for the 5-6 seasons when he was at his peak I believe Eto'o to be a better striker than Ibra.

8-10

GBXI wrote: »

He was poor at Juve when AC were one of the best in Europe, but the league wasn't strong. The biggest slight against him is that Mourinho sold him and went on to win the treble with Inter and Eto'o as his striker instead.

Milito was the main man that year

kippy

GBXI wrote: »

His goals record is strong but as I said, he's not done it even for a short period at a top club. The ones I mentioned, admitedly bar Suarez (yet), have.

He didn't perform at Barca. He lasted one season at the club and he was one the biggest's wastes of money ever. The big teams obviously had an issue with him.

He was poor at Juve when AC were one of the best in Europe, but the league wasn't strong. The biggest slight against him is that Mourinho sold him and went on to win the treble with Inter and Eto'o as his striker instead.

Actually, for the 5-6 seasons when he was at his peak I believe Eto'o to be a better striker than Ibra.

These are the players you mentioned:
Aguero, Suarez, Bale, Sanchez, Falcao bracket.
Suarez, at least you'll admit that he hasnt done it with a "top club" as of yet.
What "top club" has falcao displayed his "quality at?


Teams have an issue with him as he can be a bit more difficult to handle for numerous reasons (have a read of the book - a great read).
The guy literally came from nothing, and I mean nothing, a very deprived background, worked his ass off and continues to do so and has scored goals and won awards all around him throughout a very long career for the type of game he plays.
He's been far more consistent than any of the players you mention over the years and has delivered for whomever he had played for.
People here say he lets you down in the "big" games. Read his book, look back over a few more recent seasons, definitely not true.

He has been a fine striker.

The one bit of the whole love in I don't get is where people excitedly quote lines he never said, where they claim he talks about himself in the third person, "the Zlatan this, the Zlatan that". And it's like one of those silly Chuck Norris things. I have no doubt he has displayed some arrogance, but some of the stuff doing the rounds...it was amusing to think people believed it in the first place.

GBXI

kippy wrote: »

These are the players you mentioned:
Aguero, Suarez, Bale, Sanchez, Falcao bracket.
Suarez, at least you'll admit that he hasnt done it with a "top club" as of yet.
What "top club" has falcao displayed his "quality at?


Teams have an issue with him as he can be a bit more difficult to handle for numerous reasons (have a read of the book - a great read).
The guy literally came from nothing, and I mean nothing, a very deprived background, worked his ass off and continues to do so and has scored goals and won awards all around him throughout a very long career for the type of game he plays.
He's been far more consistent than any of the players you mention over the years and has delivered for whomever he had played for.
People here say he lets you down in the "big" games. Read his book, look back over a few more recent seasons, definitely not true.

My point about Falcao is that he performed very well in a top league, even it it was with the 3rd best team. Though Falcao is not the best example because thus far you can argue Ibra's career has been stronger. I'd put Eto'o in there as an example of a better striker for the years he was at his peak.

I'm not saying he's bad, or lazy, or that stupid argument you hear 'doesn't do it in the big games'. He's clearly gifted, but he obviously has attitude problems and most of all he's never performed consistently in Spain or England, for me the two most competitive leagues in Europe.

Skylinehead

GBXI wrote: »

His goals record is strong but as I said, he's not done it even for a short period at a top club. The ones I mentioned, admitedly bar Suarez (yet), have.

Yes he has, Barcelona. And Inter were a top club once upon a time.

He didn't perform at Barca. He lasted one season at the club and he was one the biggest's wastes of money ever. The big teams obviously had an issue with him.

Again, he did perform at Barcelona. 16 in 29 in the league, nearly 1 in 2 overall. Falling out with the manager is not the same as not performing.

He was poor at Juve when AC were one of the best in Europe, but the league wasn't strong. The biggest slight against him is that Mourinho sold him and went on to win the treble with Inter and Eto'o as his striker instead.

Actually, for the 5-6 seasons when he was at his peak I believe Eto'o to be a better striker than Ibra.

And he was bloody brilliant at Inter when AC won the Champions League again.

Gbear

He has the best technique of any striker I've ever seen.

His control of the ball and ability to strike the ball is 2nd to none (including Messi and Ronaldo).

If, through some witchcraft, he also had blistering pace, he'd be right up there with the other two.

TheDoc

GBXI wrote: »

My point about Falcao is that he performed very well in a top league, even it it was with the 3rd best team. Though Falcao is not the best example because thus far you can argue Ibra's career has been stronger. I'd put Eto'o in there as an example of a better striker for the years he was at his peak.

I'm not saying he's bad, or lazy, or that stupid argument you hear 'doesn't do it in the big games'. He's clearly gifted, but he obviously has attitude problems and most of all he's never performed consistently in Spain or England, for me the two most competitive leagues in Europe.

I'd argue that Ath. Madrid werent the third best team in La Liga when he was there, but that point is probably irrelevant.

He went to Spain, got ****ed around, had to succumb to Messi's demands and a manager not willing to put his foot down over Messi's demands. Still managed to score 20+ goals and I don't blame him for leaving with the way he was being treated.

Let's get to brass tax, it appears lots of people won't give him credit because he hasn't played in England. And don't succumb to that spin that the Premier League is the best in the world. What utter garbage. There was a time and a place when it was, maybe, but that is probably people not remotely aware of teams in leagues outside the top 4-5. Serie A is a pretty competitive league in fairness. La Liga is a joke of a league... they've actively rejected teams of promotion who they feel arn't worthy of the top leagues standard, their wealth distribution is a bad and I could go on.

I could make just as lazy an assumption that he is actually MORE impressive, because he has scored so much in Italy, "such a defensive league and difficult for strikers".

bucketybuck

Gbear wrote: »

If, through some witchcraft, he also had blistering pace, he'd be right up there with the other two.

If, through some witchcraft, he moved to Spain and doubled the amount of goals scored, he'd be right up there with the other two.

GBXI

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd argue that Ath. Madrid werent the third best team in La Liga when he was there, but that point is probably irrelevant.

He went to Spain, got ****ed around, had to succumb to Messi's demands and a manager not willing to put his foot down over Messi's demands. Still managed to score 20+ goals and I don't blame him for leaving with the way he was being treated.

Let's get to brass tax, it appears lots of people won't give him credit because he hasn't played in England. And don't succumb to that spin that the Premier League is the best in the world. What utter garbage. There was a time and a place when it was, maybe, but that is probably people not remotely aware of teams in leagues outside the top 4-5. Serie A is a pretty competitive league in fairness. La Liga is a joke of a league... they've actively rejected teams of promotion who they feel arn't worthy of the top leagues standard, their wealth distribution is a bad and I could go on.

I could make just as lazy an assumption that he is actually MORE impressive, because he has scored so much in Italy, "such a defensive league and difficult for strikers".

I never heard about this bad treatment he got at Barca or Messi's demands but I highly doubt Messi did anything other than show that he was the main man on the football pitch. Given how much Ibra has moved around (7 clubs in 15 years) I'd say he is the common denominator in not fitting in at any club, though that's just conjecture on my part.

Nobody isn't giving him credit. You just made that up. The point of the thread, with which I agree, is that Ibra is over-rated. He is regularly touted as one of the world's best strikers and I think he'd do well to make a top 10 list. Having said that his goal scoring record since 2011-2012 has been incredible, particularly at PSG. But that's the problem, it's the French league.

Just to note, the Italian league is not up the English or Spanish league standard's in terms of pace, and that suits Ibra.

Smithwicks Man

GBXI wrote: »

His goals record is strong but as I said, he's not done it even for a short period at a top club. The ones I mentioned, admitedly bar Suarez (yet), have.

He didn't perform at Barca. He lasted one season at the club and he was one the biggest's wastes of money ever. The big teams obviously had an issue with him.

He was poor at Juve when AC were one of the best in Europe, but the league wasn't strong. The biggest slight against him is that Mourinho sold him and went on to win the treble with Inter and Eto'o as his striker instead.

Actually, for the 5-6 seasons when he was at his peak I believe Eto'o to be a better striker than Ibra.

Why would it matter if he did it for a top club or not and what is your criteria of a top club? He hit 10 in 7 Champions League games last year - how does the French league being weaker make a difference to that? Also, you could argue it's harder for him to perform so well with supposedly weaker players supporting him as they would create less chances.

He did perform at Barca and it was club politics that cost them money, not buying a player who wasn't good enough. They bought a top-class striker and then Messi wanted to play through the middle. The whole fiasco is well-documented and if you read up on it you'll see that Ibrahimovic does not come out of it in a bad light at all.

He wasn't poor at Juventus at all. Moving to a new country and league and hitting 16 goals in his first season was a decent return for a 23 year old. In his second season things stagnated a bit and he didn't play up front and played more of a playmaker role where he got several assists - another thing that's not often said about him is the amount of chances he creates.

I'd hardly see a move to Barcelona as a slight against him. You say his transfer was Barca's biggest waste of money so it stands to reason that Inter would accept such a deal with open arms. He was just coming off a fantastic season where he hit 25 league goals, won Serie A player of the year and also scored the goal of the season. I somehow doubt Mourinho was moving him on because of his lack of ability


Also, this garbage about having not done it in England is tripe. On average, Serie A is statistically the most difficult league to score in of the top 5 leagues and it has been that way for quite some time. In his prime Ibrahimovic would have tore up the Premier League and his style of play and physique actually leaves him more suited to it than most.

Moneymaker

People still say Zlatan is over-rated in 2015?

FFS.

Smithwicks Man

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Also, this garbage about having not done it in England is tripe. On average, Serie A is statistically the most difficult league to score in of the top 5 leagues and it has been that way for quite some time. In his prime Ibrahimovic would have tore up the Premier League and his style of play and physique actually leaves him more suited to it than most.

Tis all very well talking about the 25 goals/player of the season/10 CL goals in 7 games stuff. But we'll never know if he could have done it on a wet Wednesday in a cup tie at Rotherham...;)

Smithwicks Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Tis all very well talking about the 25 goals/player of the season/10 CL goals in 7 games stuff. But we'll never know if he could have done it on a wet Wednesday in a cup tie at Rotherham...;)

4 goals minimum :pac:

Too Tough To Die

Extraordinary talent but mentally weak. Still world class, mind.

GBXI

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Why would it matter if he did it for a top club or not and what is your criteria of a top club? He hit 10 in 7 Champions League games last year - how does the French league being weaker make a difference to that? Also, you could argue it's harder for him to perform so well with supposedly weaker players supporting him as they would create less chances.

He did perform at Barca and it was club politics that cost them money, not buying a player who wasn't good enough. They bought a top-class striker and then Messi wanted to play through the middle. The whole fiasco is well-documented and if you read up on it you'll see that Ibrahimovic does not come out of it in a bad light at all.

He wasn't poor at Juventus at all. Moving to a new country and league and hitting 16 goals in his first season was a decent return for a 23 year old. In his second season things stagnated a bit and he didn't play up front and played more of a playmaker role where he got several assists - another thing that's not often said about him is the amount of chances he creates.

I'd hardly see a move to Barcelona as a slight against him. You say his transfer was Barca's biggest waste of money so it stands to reason that Inter would accept such a deal with open arms. He was just coming off a fantastic season where he hit 25 league goals, won Serie A player of the year and also scored the goal of the season. I somehow doubt Mourinho was moving him on because of his lack of ability


Also, this garbage about having not done it in England is tripe. On average, Serie A is statistically the most difficult league to score in of the top 5 leagues and it has been that way for quite some time. In his prime Ibrahimovic would have tore up the Premier League and his style of play and physique actually leaves him more suited to it than most.

He did great in the CL last year and has done so for all his time at PSG, but why isn't he Chelsea, Man City, Barca, Real, or Bayern's main striker? The French league is not near the standard of England or Spain.

The thing about Italy being harder to score in is daft.

GavRedKing

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Extraordinary talent but mentally weak. Still world class, mind.

Mentally weak? in what way, guy has the confidence to make Ronaldo look like a shrinking violet. Pressure is something that doesnt seem to effect Zlatan

Smithwicks Man

GBXI wrote: »

He did great in the CL last year and has done so for all his time at PSG, but why isn't he Chelsea, Man City, Barca, Real, or Bayern's main striker? The French league is not near the standard of England or Spain.

The thing about Italy being harder to score in is daft.

I can't say why he's not at Chelsea or City but I'd imagine his extraordinary wages were a big factor. It's obvious why he isn't at Barca or Bayern.


How is it daft? Italian teams are much were tactically astute and statistically there is less goals scored on average in Serie A. The league is renown for being difficult for strikers, particularly foreign strikers. to score in.

Too Tough To Die

GavRedKing wrote: »

Mentally weak? in what way, guy has the confidence to make Ronaldo look like a shrinking violet. Pressure is somethin gthat doesnt seem to effect Zlatan

In the way that he can't quite cut it at elite level when he clearly has the talent to be able to do so.

8-10

Thread needs a poll. My opinion remains that he is underrated

GavRedKing

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

In the way that he can't quite cut it at elite level when he clearly has the talent to be able to do so.

I'm sure his many, many , many titles proves the opposite.

The fact hes won leagues with the biggest clubs in Europe while still be an excellent player is testement to his character, how many players do people moan havent done it in a different league? Zlatans done the business in every country hes turned up to and with relative ease in most cases.

GBXI

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'm sure his many, many , many titles proves the opposite.

The fact hes won leagues with the biggest clubs in Europe while still be an excellent player is testement to his character, how many players do people moan havent done it in a different league? Zlatans done the business in every country hes turned up to and with relative ease in most cases.

This is something I'd hold against him - constantly on the move! For me he needs to have done it at the very best teams to be considered one of the best of his generation. Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter, PSG, and while he was there, AC, were not challenging the top teams in Europe.

He also gives off the impression of a man who just follows the money.

Blatter

I would actually say Zlatan is probably the best #9 of his generation.

Trying to think of others that come close to his record/ability/achievements that have done it consistently over the last 10 years. I can't really think of any.

8-10

GBXI wrote: »

This is something I'd hold against him - constantly on the move! For me he needs to have done it at the very best teams to be considered one of the best of his generation. Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter, PSG, and while he was there, AC, were not challenging the top teams in Europe.

He also gives off the impression of a man who just follows the money.

Ajax when he was there (2003) were within seconds of a Champions League semi-final and were one of the best sides in Europe that year.

And they had none of that money you're saying he was following.

Jelle1880

deadybai wrote: »

Fair enough he can score spectacular goals but people consider him one of the worlds best. Not saying he is terrible but really just think he is about a €20-25 million striker. Not the ridiculous sums that have been payed for him.
He is so overrated its unbelievable. Take a look at his goal scoring record

1999–2001 Malmö FF 40 (16)
2001–2004 Ajax 74 (35)
2004–2006 Juventus 70 (23)
2006–2009 Internazionale 88 (57)
2009–2011 Barcelona 29 (16)
2010–2011 → Milan (loan) 29 (14)
2011–2012 Milan 32 (28)
2012– Paris Saint-Germain 79 (64)

His Inter record is fairly good but he played through the Italian leagues' worst period. His record for PSG is very good but its the French league, not even near the best league in the world.

What is your opinion on him?
Personally he wouldnt even be near my top ten strikers in the world. He would be lucky to get 15 goals in a premier league season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlatan_Ibrahimović#Honours

He is a winner, wherever he goes he wins medals and trophies.

Plus, he's just ridiculously entertaining to watch:

ush

GBXI wrote: »

Just to note, the Italian league is not up the English or Spanish league standard's in terms of pace, and that suits Ibra.

Yeah, but England is a sh*thole.

pickarooney

GBXI wrote: »

This is something I'd hold against him - constantly on the move! For me he needs to have done it at the very best teams to be considered one of the best of his generation. Malmo, Ajax, Juve, Inter, PSG, and while he was there, AC, were not challenging the top teams in Europe.

He also gives off the impression of a man who just follows the money.

At least make a consistent argument. One minute you're playing him down because he hasn't played for every tuppeny ha'penny team north of the Channel and the next you're having a go at him for moving clubs?

Naturally enough if he was still at Malmö you'd sing his praises for his loyalty and not knock his ambition, you yourself would have told Juve to take a hike or, had you been forced to move there, would have hung around in Serie B, then pooh-poohed a hundred million euro deal to join the world's best club and simply retired to become a hardware salesman when they didn't want you a year later...

Smithwicks Man

pickarooney wrote: »

At least make a consistent argument. One minute you're playing him down because he hasn't played for every tuppeny ha'penny team north of the Channel and the next you're having a go at him for moving clubs?

Naturally enough if he was still at Malmö you'd sing his praises for his loyalty and not knock his ambition, you yourself would have told Juve to take a hike or, had you been forced to move there, would have hung around in Serie B, then pooh-poohed a hundred million euro deal to join the world's best club and simply retired to become a hardware salesman when they didn't want you a year later...

He also never wanted to leave Milan but was forced to move for no reason other than financial issues within the club and the need to balance the books.

In truth he had a perfectly legitimate reason for moving clubs every time.

Mr. Incognito

People are stupid. This guy has banged them in everywhere.

The EPL is not even the second best league in Europe.

Spain, then Germany then England now.

He was doing it in Italy at its peak.

Putting hyped players like Suarez and Costa above one of the greatest players of all time, people need to cop on

Costa can't score away and Suarez can't score at all at Barca.

GBXI

pickarooney wrote: »

At least make a consistent argument. One minute you're playing him down because he hasn't played for every tuppeny ha'penny team north of the Channel and the next you're having a go at him for moving clubs?

Naturally enough if he was still at Malmö you'd sing his praises for his loyalty and not knock his ambition, you yourself would have told Juve to take a hike or, had you been forced to move there, would have hung around in Serie B, then pooh-poohed a hundred million euro deal to join the world's best club and simply retired to become a hardware salesman when they didn't want you a year later...

My argument is consistent. He is over-rated. In modern football the best players play for the best clubs. I'm not saying he has to play for all the best clubs in his career but he hasn't played for any. The clubs he played for haven't been challenging for the Champions League.

A talented player but there are many number 9s who at their peak over the last 10 years I would have ahead of Ibra.

Do English clubs really do the whole "buy best player in the world at his prime" stuff that Real, Barca, Bayern and even the odd Italian club seem to do?

They seem to prefer to get them on the way up or way down.

Smithwicks Man

GBXI wrote: »

My argument is consistent. He is over-rated. In modern football the best players play for the best clubs. I'm not saying he has to play for all the best clubs in his career but he hasn't played for any. The clubs he played for haven't been challenging for the Champions League.

A talented player but there are many number 9s who at their peak over the last 10 years I would have ahead of Ibra.

Absurd. Why do the best players have to play for the best clubs? Also, he played for Barcelona but that doesn't suit your argument so it's convenient to leave it out.

I've watched him play more than most I'd imagine, fearing seeing him in the Inter Milan line up and then cheering him on in almost 100 games and his consistency in being brilliant was, and still is, a joy to behold. I'll take it you either haven't seen much of him play except the odd Champions League game or you don't like him for some reason.

There is no denying Ibrahimovic has been world class for a long, long time. It's gone past the stage where it is even an opinion, it is simply a fact.

Too Tough To Die

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'm sure his many, many , many titles proves the opposite.

The fact hes won leagues with the biggest clubs in Europe while still be an excellent player is testement to his character, how many players do people moan havent done it in a different league? Zlatans done the business in every country hes turned up to and with relative ease in most cases.

No his many many titles don't prove the opposite as they were not won at the elite level.

GavRedKing

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

No his many many titles don't prove the opposite as they were not won at the elite level.

Oh ya, I forgot he was playing in the blue square premier league alright. :rolleyes:

Too Tough To Die

GavRedKing wrote: »

Oh ya, I forgot he was playing in the blue square premier league alright. :rolleyes:

Football is about levels. Ibra just falls short. Still world class. Still overrated.

Skylinehead

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

No his many many titles don't prove the opposite as they were not won at the elite level.

Aside from his Juventus ones, some of the Inter ones arguably and definitely the Barca one yeah?

Too Tough To Die

Skylinehead wrote: »

Aside from his Juventus ones, some of the Inter ones arguably and definitely the Barca one yeah?

You can discount Italy. 3rd maybe 4rd best league in the world at the time.

He got off to a good start at Barca but he was by no means a success. It was too big for him. He's best as a shark in a small pond.

Smithwicks Man

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

No his many many titles don't prove the opposite as they were not won at the elite level.

Ridiculous claim. Not only has he won titles at the elite level he has also been the main catalyst behind most of those titles being won.

Skylinehead

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You can discount Italy. 3rd maybe 4rd best league in the world at the time.

Have a look at the players playing in the league at the time, and the number of Champions League wins by Italian teams at the time, and get back to me. No way was it the 4th best league in the world.

He got off to a good start at Barca but he was by no means a success. It was too big for him. He's best as a shark in a small pond.

He scored tons of goals, on the pitch he was great. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about if you think that the league being "too big" that caused him to leave, he simply fell out with Guardiola.

Too Tough To Die

Skylinehead wrote: »

Have a look at the players playing in the league at the time, and the number of Champions League wins by Italian teams at the time, and get back to me. No way was it the 4th best league in the world.


He scored tons of goals, on the pitch he was great. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about if you think that the league being "too big" that caused him to leave, he simply fell out with Guardiola.

I would confidently say i have seen every minute he played in La Liga. He fell out with Guardiola when his form dipped. Blamed everyone but himself. As i said earlier, mentally weak. Went back to a small pond, and he's awesome again.

Skylinehead

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I would confidently say i have seen every minute he played in La Liga. He fell out with Guardiola when his form dipped. Blamed everyone but himself. As i said earlier, mentally weak. Went back to a small pond, and he's awesome again.

Your complete failure to answer the first part of my question is telling. And for somebody claiming to know everything from Barcelona in that period, you left a hell of a lot out - namely Guardiolas tendencies for feuds (Eto'o for one) and a dislike for flamboyant players (the whole Pique Shakira thing).

Smithwicks Man

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I would confidently say i have seen every minute he played in La Liga. He fell out with Guardiola when his form dipped. Blamed everyone but himself. As i said earlier, mentally weak. Went back to a small pond, and he's awesome again.

Ironic that you're calling a competitive league like Serie A a small pond when La Liga is like shooting fish in a barrel for the top 3 - and that was a top 2 at the time.