Why does everyone rate Ibrahimovic so highly?

Too Tough To Die

Skylinehead wrote: »

Your complete failure to answer the first part of my question is telling. And for somebody claiming to know everything from Barcelona in that period, you left a hell of a lot out - namely Guardiolas tendencies for feuds (Eto'o for one) and a dislike for flamboyant players (the whole Pique Shakira thing).

That period of Italian football is a mess. Good luck picking through the remains. It was still weaker than England and Spain.

I can pinpoint the moment i knew Ibra was done with Barca, and it was nothing to do with Guardiola. The 4-2 win over Real Zaragoza, Ibra had gone a few games without scoring and the pressure was mounting on him.

Messi played out of his skin and laid a lot of chances on a plate but Ibra (clearly lacking confidence) couldn't hit a donkeys arse that day. Messi then wins a penalty and hands the ball to Ibra. A nice gesture from Messi but a massive humbling for a guy like Ibra. I knew he was done then.

Too Tough To Die

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Ironic that you're calling a competitive league like Serie A a small pond when La Liga is like shooting fish in a barrel for the top 3 - and that was a top 2 at the time.

Hi. Small pond in terms of the world's best players.

Too Tough To Die

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

That period of Italian football is a mess. Good luck picking through the remains. It was still weaker than England and Spain.

I can pinpoint the moment i knew Ibra was done with Barca, and it was nothing to do with Guardiola. The 4-2 win over Real Zaragoza, Ibra had gone a few games without scoring and the pressure was mounting on him.

Messi played out of his skin and laid a lot of chances on a plate but Ibra (clearly lacking confidence) couldn't hit a donkeys arse that day. Messi then wins a penalty and hands the ball to Ibra. A nice gesture from Messi but a massive humbling for a guy like Ibra. I knew he was done then.

I know you guys haven't seen the game, but this gives a pretty good sense of what was going on that evening.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/la-liga/2009-2010/real-zaragoza-fc-barcelona-289170.html

Jimmy Iovine

Why does everyone rate Ibrahimovic so highly?

Because he's as cool as ****.

https://vine.co/v/OrWmgv6iXzt

Smithwicks Man

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Hi. Small pond in terms of the world's best players.

There was plenty of top-class players playing there throughout those years and beside, how does that make any difference to the difficulty of scoring goals and winning titles? If anything it's far harder to achieve what he did playing with weaker teams where there was far more pressure on him to perform.

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I can pinpoint the moment i knew Ibra was done with Barca, and it was nothing to do with Guardiola. The 4-2 win over Real Zaragoza, Ibra had gone a few games without scoring and the pressure was mounting on him.

Messi played out of his skin and laid a lot of chances on a plate but Ibra (clearly lacking confidence) couldn't hit a donkeys arse that day. Messi then wins a penalty and hands the ball to Ibra. A nice gesture from Messi but a massive humbling for a guy like Ibra. I knew he was done then.

My mistake, I never realized he had a bad game. This completely changes my outlook on his career. It's a wonder he didn't just hang up the boots afterwards.




Anybody who thinks he lacks confidence or is mentally weak is either on the wind-up or is just passing comment on a player that they don't watch play.

Too Tough To Die

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

There was plenty of top-class players playing there throughout those years and beside, how does that make any difference to the difficulty of scoring goals and winning titles? If anything it's far harder to achieve what he did playing with weaker teams where there was far more pressure on him to perform.



My mistake, I never realized he had a bad game. This completely changes my outlook on his career. It's a wonder he didn't just hang up the boots afterwards.




Anybody who thinks he lacks confidence or is mentally weak is either on the wind-up or is just passing comment on a player that they don't watch play.

I'm talking about being in a league where you're not in the top 5 best players and barely make it into the top 5 at your club. Like i said, it's all about levels. This was a level too high for him, it swallowed him up.

Watch the game, it was more than a bad game. It was the end at Barca for him. His confidence was shot and Guardiola lost all faith in him. It's after that they fell out.

I do watch him play, as i said i've seen probably every game he's played in La Liga and most of his important CL games. Elite level, where he hasn't quite cut it. Sorry i haven't seen him bang 4 in against AC Pavlova but i'm sure it was amazing.

Smithwicks Man

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I'm talking about being in a league where you're not in the top 5 best players and barely make it into the top 5 at your club. Like i said, it's all about levels. This was a level too high for him, it swallowed him up.

Watch the game, it was more than a bad game. It was the end at Barca for him. His confidence was shot and Guardiola lost all faith in him. It's after that they fell out.

I do watch him play, as i said i've seen probably every game he's played in La Liga and most of his important CL games. Elite level, where he hasn't quite cut it. Sorry i haven't seen him bang 4 in against AC Pavlova but i'm sure it was amazing.

Every game he played in La Liga is less than 5% of his career club games and, as you are stating yourself, was probably the most off-form he has been in his career. The reasons they fell out are well documented. Guardiola doesn't like big personalities in the dressing room and Messi wanted to play through the middle.

There were several reasons as to why things didn't work out for Ibrahimovic at Barca, but him not being good enough is not one of them.


Also you keep saying he hasn't quite cut it at the elite level. He scored 10 goals in 7 CL games last year alone and had several brilliant performances. As well as this he almost single-handedly dragged Sweden to the World Cup.

Are you sure you're talking about the right player?

Skylinehead

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

That period of Italian football is a mess. Good luck picking through the remains. It was still weaker than England and Spain.

Oh if you insist.

Zanetti, Mihajlovic, Materazzi, Samuel, Figo, Cambiasso, Adriano, Buffon, Vieira, Chiellini, Del Piero, Nedved, Trezeguet, Camoranesi, Zambrotta, Thuram, Cannavaro, Kuffour, Totti, De Rossi, Cassano, Montella, Cafu, Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta, Shevchenko, Inzaghi, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Pirlo, Kaka, Stam, Ambrosini, Crespo, Vieri, Di Natale, Toni, Gilardino, Lucarelli, Vucinic, Mutu.

That's not them all btw. You think there was better in Spain?

Oh and that Ibrahimovic guy, heard he was decent.

And who won the World Cup in 2006, with every player in the team playing in that country? Have a guess


Serie A was far from bad in those days.

ush

^^Ouch

Smithwicks Man

Can't link a video but he's after scoring the winner in their cup tie by chesting it into the net

RossieMan

out of interest, who does the op support? who does he rate as a decent player? ibras goal scoring is immense.

GavRedKing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euwn59Jl8Mw

Dempsey

Try watching the player instead of Wikipedia

Bobby Baccala

GavRedKing wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euwn59Jl8Mw

He's a nutcase haha

The Golden Miller

For a long time he was frustrating to watch in many big matches, and if you only listened to the Premiership hyperbole and seen Ibrahimovic in the Champions League or against an English team it's understandable many people would call him over-rated over here. Personally I would never have classed him as over-rated, but in a lot of big European nights he certainly did frustrate like against Milan in the 03-04 Champions League for Ajax, for Milan against Spurs in 11, against United for Inter in 08, in 05 for Juve again Liverpool and against Arsenal for Juve in 06. Jesus, Juve looked very laboured and old during that tie. Their game against Werder in the previous round was one of the best ever though. It could also be argued that Ibrahimovic did struggle a bit with Juve when Serie A was still a top league. But on the other hand he has matured somewhat with age, become more clinical in recent years in bigger ties and in general. For about the last 4 years he has been world class and one of the best, if not the best, striker around. When on form, due in no short part to his stature and gifted control for such an awkward looking player, he is unplayable.

SantryRed

GBXI wrote: »

My argument is consistent. He is over-rated. In modern football the best players play for the best clubs. I'm not saying he has to play for all the best clubs in his career but he hasn't played for any. The clubs he played for haven't been challenging for the Champions League.

A talented player but there are many number 9s who at their peak over the last 10 years I would have ahead of Ibra.

I can't let this lie. Can you name these 'many' players?

GBXI

The Golden Miller wrote: »

For a long time he was frustrating to watch in many big matches, and if you only listened to the Premiership hyperbole and seen Ibrahimovic in the Champions League or against an English team it's understandable many people would call him over-rated over here. Personally I would never have classed him as over-rated, but in a lot of big European nights he certainly did frustrate like against Milan in the 03-04 Champions League for Ajax, for Milan against Spurs in 11, against United for Inter in 08, in 05 for Juve again Liverpool and against Arsenal for Juve in 06. Jesus, Juve looked very laboured and old during that tie. Their game against Werder in the previous round was one of the best ever though. It could also be argued that Ibrahimovic did struggle a bit with Juve when Serie A was still a top league. But on the other hand he has matured somewhat with age, become more clinical in recent years in bigger ties and in general. For about the last 4 years he has been world class and one of the best, if not the best, striker around. When on form, due in no short part to his stature and gifted control for such an awkward looking player, he is unplayable.

I'd definitely agree with the bolded part.

GBXI

SantryRed wrote: »

I can't let this lie. Can you name these 'many' players?

Number 9s that I would have ahead of him at their peak; Drogba, Torres, Van Persie, Eto'o, Henry, Villa, Van Nistelrooy, and arguably a little before his time Raul and Shevchenko.

Pro. F

Ibra's tallent is phenomenal
His scoring record is excellent
His attitude is poor

The attitude is the issue and it can't just be forgiven imo.

Just on some points I've seen in this thread:

- He has won leagues everywhere he has gone. True, but at least three of those leagues should be discounted because of the calciopoli scandal and the aftermath. And the ones with PSG don't count for much.

- He scored 10 goals in the CL last year. 5 against Anderlecht; 2 against Leverkusen (one was a penalty); 2 against Benfica and 1 against Olympiacos. Good, but nothing amazing considering who he was playing for and who the opposition were.

- I wouldn't hold his failure at Barca against him, because it was so obvious that he wasn't suited to what the team required of their strikers.

I appreciate his skill when I watch him, but, because of his attitude, there will always be strikers I'd rather have ahead of him if I was choosing who I'd want in my team.

astonaidan

Oh dear God, really is a lot of insane people on the loose these days, questioning Zlatan in this day and age, dear God

adaminho

A little map for those who question Zlatan arse.jpg