Has Peyton Manning Played His Last Game?

ABajaninCork

He didn't play well tonight, and seems to have lost some of his arm strength. I personally think after the Superbowl last year, the Seahawks broke him.

I felt sad for him tonight. If this was his last game, it was a very sad way to see him go. It felt like the end of an era.

But - there don't seem to be any viable alternatives to Manning. And he'll be 39 next year. There is also the strong possibility of working with a new OC once Gase goes - which is likely.

Should the Broncos trade up for a QB that can be mentored by him?

spiralism

We're at like 28 in the draft ordering. Trading up would cost a King's ransom but we should definitely consider it. Manning won't stick around, even if he'd a bit in the tank the entire coaching staff will be different and he's not gonna be down for a full coaching staff change at 39. Also, if there's gonna be a large scale clearing of house, his 22 mill against the cap will count strongly against him when he's looked totally done for the last few months now.

Kristopherus

ABajaninCork wrote: »

He didn't play well tonight, and seems to have lost some of his arm strength. I personally think after the Superbowl last year, the Seahawks broke him.

I felt sad for him tonight. If this was his last game, it was a very sad way to see him go. It felt like the end of an era.

But - there don't seem to be any viable alternatives to Manning. And he'll be 39 next year. There is also the strong possibility of working with a new OC once Gase goes - which is likely.

Should the Broncos trade up for a QB that can be mentored by him?

Well, where would that leave the great John Elway? Manning was poor tonight, but I would'nt mind seeing him carry on for another season.

ABajaninCork

Elway retired after winning his second Superbowl. He knew it was the end of the line.

Manning may very well stay on, as there isn't really an alternative that would be game-ready. But that would depend on the coaching staff and what the same Elway will do in the draft.

think he is i would question his ability to keep his arm strength throughout a season at this stage and i dont know if his team around him can get any better than that broncos side

with regards trading up theres no need you won't be able to get high enough to get the big 2 and the rest will likely be there when you pick anyway

raze_them_all_

I think we have, He was never a gunslinger like farve and co so his declining arm strength has really hurt him this year

Utopia Parkway

He was still playing at a pretty high level for the first two thirds of this season but he just seems to have fallen off a cliff recently. Maybe the rigours of a full season are just too much for his arm anymore.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Manning may have played his last game, but there was other issues out there as well.
Those dropped passes.
Welker a non factor.
Pass rush did very little.
Talib had an awful game.
Not much help came from the sideline (how many non successful deep throws do you need to see before you change).

Manning needed help out there, and there was little of it.

spiralism

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Manning may have played his last game, but there was other issues out there as well.
Those dropped passes.
Welker a non factor.
Pass rush did very little.
Talib had an awful game.
Not much help came from the sideline (how many non successful deep throws do you need to see before you change).

Manning needed help out there, and there was little of it.

That said we'll probably deal with a lot of those issues by releasing welker and firing the coaching staff. He's a very big unknown at 39 though to hedge 22 million on and if there's a rebuild already in progress...

ABajaninCork

I reckon Wes Welker has probably played his last game too. Those concussions don't do him any favours. Talib had a bad game and gave up a lot of penalties. I don't think I ever heard Von Miller's name mentioned once.

And yes - there didn't seem to be a Plan B...

spiralism

spiralism wrote: »

That said we'll probably deal with a lot of those issues by releasing welker and firing the coaching staff. He's a very big unknown at 39 though to hedge 22 million on and if there's a rebuild already in progress...

what have the broncos done to indicate there rebuilding

kryogen

I think he could still go another regular season and do reasonably well, particularly if he is open to being rested a little bit more. However if it is the last we see of him then all I can say is it has been a privilege to watch him work all these years, always as a rival but with a tremendous amount of respect from me. One of the greats certainly, no need to get into a who is the best in this thread, my thoughts are clear on it but whatever way you want to spin it he is one of the best to have ever stepped out on to the field and I wouldn't be surprised to see him take up a coaching role in the future

spiralism

Howard Moldy Housetop wrote: »

what have the broncos done to indicate there rebuilding

It's speculation based on what just went on. Manning looks very close to done and Fox is heavily rumoured to be on the chopping block for this. Add to it that Del Rio is the favourite for the Raiders job and Gase will likely take a coaching vacancy as well and thats the coaching staff gutted too. Then you're talking rebuild

Elway's pretty astute, he knows this team won't win a superbowl and the super bowl or bust gamble has failed so he's going to need to build a contender the conventional way.

ABajaninCork

I see him in an executive role (a la Elway). But he would make a pretty good coach too!

Darr3nG

ABajaninCork wrote: »

...Wes Welker has probably played his last game...

My favourite player for too long! No show, this year. I was glad to have seen him make one catch V Jets...

mikemac1

Manning is 21.5 million against the cap in 2015 with 5 million guaranteed

If he's cut, I'm not fully sure how retired works there will be 16.5 million of cap room and 5 million dead money for 2015

Welkers contract is up and hits free agency. He'll be 34 next season

JaMarcusHustle

Would be nice to see him play for fans that appreciate him next year.

nasty_crash

Its not like he needs that 22 mil - can see him giving it up this offseason... but it leaves broncos screwed at qb postion!
As bad as talib was - didnt think Damarius Thomas looked too interested on the field last night - or at least he seemed pissed off with some of the calls - and its rare where we see the Colts Defense & O-line look so dominant (Cant include the bengals game last week as they always choke in playoffs) but last night they looked immense - ware & miller were non existant!!

Billy86

I'm guessing we see a lot of cap tricks used by the Broncos this offseason and Manning comes back for one last year, very much in a game manager type role like Favre was in his last year or two. He is obsessed with records, his standing, stats, etc and while it's far from the only factor I reckon he will be desperate to break Favre's yardage record (he's currently about 2,200 yards off of it) while the Broncos having established a decent running game over this season will also help him out. That said, if he does I expect to see someone drafted to come in and groom behind him (since I doubt Osweiler is the guy), with Manning getting subbed out plenty in fourth quarters - and likely to get a bit mopey over it through the year - and his pass attempts brought down from his ~600 average since joining the Broncos to maybe around 450. But if he does return, next season will unquestionably be his last.

kryogen

mikemac1 wrote: »

Manning is 21.5 million against the cap in 2015 with 5 million guaranteed

If he's cut, I'm not fully sure how retired works there will be 16.5 million of cap room and 5 million dead money for 2015

Welkers contract is up and hits free agency. He'll be 34 next season

There will be minimal cap implications for them if he retires, most of his guaranteed money has been paid.

Welker will pick up a team I think, he is worth a shot to someone on a one year deal, though it might be better for him if he called it a day.

kryogen

On a related note, do we think he will retire as a Colt?

Jolly Red Giant

The trouble with the Broncos this season started with the OL - not with Manning. Shifting Franklin to LG and Clark to RT didn't work and the Broncos haven't been able to fix it. Everything else on offence flowed from the problems with the OL.

The Broncos should have been the Colts last night - they have the talent - but it looked like they didn't really want to be there. I suspect that this relates to Manning.

It is clear that age has caught up with him - not since the last SB, but starting with the game against the Rams. His physical ability to play the game seems to have gone off the age cliff. I had hoped that the switch to a run heavy offence would sustain the team and give Manning time to get another shot at the SB, but last night showed that it was a step too far.

One play last night demonstrated the fact that Manning no longer is able to physically play the game. Manning had an opportunity to run for five yards to get a first down - in fact he had the time to walk and take a knee - he didn't, or couldn't do it.

I think it is time for Manning to retire - but I don't know if he will. Up to last night I would have been happy to see Manning back - but now I think he just cannot physically play the game anymore.

This brings a different problem for Elway - would he make a decision to cut Manning. I think this will be tied in with wider issues. Will Fox stay as head coach? I suspect that Fox has taken the team as far as he can and that his future is directly linked to Manning. If Fox goes so will JDR and Gase.

It was interesting that Kubiak announced yesterday that he would not interview for any HC job. I would not be surprised to see Kubiak in Denver as HC in the next two weeks. Kubiak is Broncos through and through - himself and Elway had a very close relationship - and Kubiak has repeatedly stated that the only teams he would HC were Houston (his home town) and Denver. If Kubiak comes in then it is likely that Dennison will become OC and possibly Wade Phillips back as DC.

Manning retiring or being cut would free up $16million in cap space - and Denver is already in a healthy cap situation. It would provide funding to fix the OL and resign DT and Knighton etc. Osweiler will be given his opportunity - there is three years invested in him and he will be given a season to see if he can become an NFL QB.

At the end of the day the Broncos appear to be in a situation that some limited overhaul is needed - and that probably starts with the end of Manning in Denver. whether that means the end of Manning is another thing.

nasty_crash

dont forget the free agents that denver have to cover this off season - i know they are quiet healthy on cap at the moment - but the two Thomas's are both UFA and will command big paydays - so they will need every cent of the cap

ABajaninCork

kryogen wrote: »

On a related note, do we think he will retire as a Colt?

I think that's a given. Don't you?

taidghbaby

Manning threw 4500+ yards and 39 TDs this year!

even if there's another 5% or 10% drop off in his performance he'll still be in the top 10 QB's at worst!

What's the alternative....Brock Osweiller??

Give me a ****ing break!

Jolly Red Giant

nasty_crash wrote: »

dont forget the free agents that denver have to cover this off season - i know they are quiet healthy on cap at the moment - but the two Thomas's are both UFA and will command big paydays - so they will need every cent of the cap

DT will be resigned (the deal is almost done) but I suspect that JT will be allowed to walk. Thomas is a redzone threat but is a major liability in the run game. The Broncos offence was much more balanced and effective when JT was injured and Green was playing as TE. The Broncos would like to keep him but he will get way too much money from someone else.

There are three key FAs for the Broncos - DT, Pot Roast and Harris - and Harris has already signed a long extension.

Welker will probably retire (too many concussions) and Sanders was signed as his long-term replacement, Franklin will walk and be replaced and Moore may resign but again wouldn't be difficult to replace.

If you include a Manning retirement, the Broncos would have about $60million in cap space to deal with the above. Elway has done a terrific job at cap management and signing players on contracts that do not create any long-term cap implications in most cases. On top of that there are a whole raft of players that could be cut freeing up significantly more money (like Clark - saving $1.4million)

A lot of what will happen will come down to whether Elway decides to continue with Fox or feel that Fox has done what he can and move on.

In relation to Manning - if you just look at the numbers Manning had a great season - but the numbers don't tell everything. There appears to have been a major drop off in the physical ability to get the job done. Manning has gotten old, slow and weak. He takes to much time to drop back in the pocket and needs to work constantly out of the shotgun, something which is unsustainable. Manning is telegraphing the plays because of his drop-off in physical ability - he zones in on one receiver and repeatedly tosses up lob balls in the hope that DT's physical size will win the lob. He no longer waits for a crossing route or slant to develop and is panicked into throws by pressure. It actually looks like that he is afraid of getting hit and is rushing everything that he does. Manning is 38 and at his age the ability of his body to play the game can drop off the edge of a cliff in dramatic fashion. The Broncos may decide to bring him back for one last shot - and try to build an offence to pound the ball and protect him (i.e. a massive OL and the use of extra linemen and TEs) - but looking at him over the past few weeks and seeing his ability to play the game drop off dramatically, I think it would be best for him if he retired (and it would be fitting if he retired a Colt).

Last point - we don't know if Os is any good of a QB - he has never been given the reps with the starters. He has all the physical attributes to be a top QB and he would need a full season as a starter before anyone could determine if he is up to the job. I have a feeling that if Elway thinks that Os is up to the job he will encourage Manning to retire.

Mr. Guappa

Luckily for the Broncos Tim Tebow is available if Manning does call it a day.

ABajaninCork

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Luckily for the Broncos Tim Tebow is available if Manning does call it a day.

LOOOOL!

Jolly Red Giant

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Luckily for the Broncos Tim Tebow is available if Manning does call it a day.

bruschi

taidghbaby wrote: »

Manning threw 4500+ yards and 39 TDs this year!

even if there's another 5% or 10% drop off in his performance he'll still be in the top 10 QB's at worst!

What's the alternative....Brock Osweiller??

Give me a ****ing break!

but is there a breakdown of when he got the bulk of yardage and scores? His form to the tail end of the year was awful, and I think that is the problem. If the season was 10 games long with playoffs then, he'd be fine. But I think his durability to last a season and then playoffs is shot. Unless there is a gameplan designed to take the workload off early on and preserve him for later, then I think his time is gone. Its a shame it could end so muted though.

Chucky the tree

If he was getting paid Russell Wilson money he's worth keeping. But he costs a ridiculous amount of money against the cap which makes building a strong team around him to over-come his glaring short-falls extremely difficult. If I was the Broncos I'd give him the option of re-doing his contract so he'll cost €5m against the cap and then use the extra to try and build an elite defense. In saying that I look around the league and there are so few QB's who are successful without good arm strength.

kryogen

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I think that's a given. Don't you?

Depends on whether he comes back or not I suppose, if he has another season in Denver I think retiring as a Colt would be a bit much...... I expect him to go on the one day contract this off season though and retire as a Colt.

Hard to figure right now, maybe we will hear some noises over the coming weeks.

spiralism

taidghbaby wrote: »

Manning threw 4500+ yards and 39 TDs this year!

even if there's another 5% or 10% drop off in his performance he'll still be in the top 10 QB's at worst!

What's the alternative....Brock Osweiller??

Give me a ****ing break!

If he comes back, and that's assuming this drastic dropoff in play has been injury related, not age, we need to put someone better in charge of the show than John Fox or it's kinda pointless. Manning's been let down by subpar coaching quite a lot in his career. I think Broncos fans aren't pissed off at Manning or never were but know it's time, this past couple of months has been reminiscent of Favre's last few in terms of a dropoff in play. What we're really pissed off about is the piss poor coaching and playcalling.

That said, we're in a battle from next year on to keep the roster together for when he does retire and 22.5 million is a hell of a cap hit for declining play. Brady's often renegotiated to give himself a better team so if Peyton wants one more year then he should consider a similar option.

dub_skav

I really believed he would come out last night and give us a masterclass after his week off and after the first series I thought it was looking good.
I hope it was an injury or a disagreement with coaches or something that explains the last few weeks, because that would be a bad way to go out.

If there is some explanation, then I would gladly see him back for another year, if he just got old fast, then he should hang it up.
He'll know which it was, so if he decides to give it one more year, he'll have my full, enthusiastic support.

spiralism

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Would be nice to see him play for fans that appreciate him next year.

This is starting to seriously grate on me so i'll bite. For 364 days we hear how Manning is a bottler who is only good in the regular season, and anyone who defends him doesn't understand the sport and will be let down. Then on a day like today, when we critique Peyton along with the rest of the team when they were universally (save Anderson) dreadful, we're ungrateful bandwagon fans.

Who exactly are Patriots fans to have a go at us, with their HOF QB and GOAT coach? The ****ing worst its got in Foxboro in the past 15 years is losing in the AFC championship game. Yet i often see them complaining just like we're entitled to, because sometimes it's fair to criticise. Don't give me the **** about being disrespectful either cos half of them were saying Brady was in decline after the KC game, which was nowhere near as stark as Manning's slump which has gone on for some three months now.

Hazys

kryogen wrote: »

I think he could still go another regular season and do reasonably well, particularly if he is open to being rested a little bit more. However if it is the last we see of him then all I can say is it has been a privilege to watch him work all these years, always as a rival but with a tremendous amount of respect from me. One of the greats certainly, no need to get into a who is the best in this thread, my thoughts are clear on it but whatever way you want to spin it he is one of the best to have ever stepped out on to the field and I wouldn't be surprised to see him take up a coaching role in the future

I think so too and rest will be extremely important. He looked jaded and injured at the end of the season. The loss yesterday was not his characteristic one and done in the playoffs (sly dig from a Brady fan :P) as the Broncos have been average near the end of the season and it carried through to the playoffs.

The Broncos definitely want him back because there is no easy alternative. I think a major factor in Manning's return is what happens in the off season. If the 2 Thomases (Whats the plural of Thomas?) leave, why would he come back to an average offense? He's never played with an average offense so it would be all too much for a 40 year old QB to take.

nasty_crash

also if there is a new OC brought in which could very well happen he could have to learn a new offense - which wouldnt be ideal for him - he might just say forget it!

bruschi

spiralism wrote: »

This is starting to seriously grate on me so i'll bite. For 364 days we hear how Manning is a bottler who is only good in the regular season, and anyone who defends him doesn't understand the sport and will be let down. Then on a day like today, when we critique Peyton along with the rest of the team when they were universally (save Anderson) dreadful, we're ungrateful bandwagon fans.

Who exactly are Patriots fans to have a go at us, with their HOF QB and GOAT coach? The ****ing worst its got in Foxboro in the past 15 years is losing in the AFC championship game. Yet i often see them complaining just like we're entitled to, because sometimes it's fair to criticise. Don't give me the **** about being disrespectful either cos half of them were saying Brady was in decline after the KC game, which was nowhere near as stark as Manning's slump which has gone on for some three months now.

people can complain, people can criticise, people on Irish fora can moan about players, but it is all a far cry from booing a player in a playoff game. I thought Brady was done after the KC game. I'm glad I was totally and utterly wrong, but even if I wasnt, booing him at Foxboro would be by far and away the last thing I would ever consider doing, and if fans did do that, I would be utterly disgusted.

spiralism

bruschi wrote: »

people can complain, people can criticise, people on Irish fora can moan about players, but it is all a far cry from booing a player in a playoff game. I thought Brady was done after the KC game. I'm glad I was totally and utterly wrong, but even if I wasnt, booing him at Foxboro would be by far and away the last thing I would ever consider doing, and if fans did do that, I would be utterly disgusted.

The whole team was booed in fairness, it was a very flat effort. It's not like his face showed on a screen and led to booing for example. He wasn't singled out by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyone who specifically targeted Manning is a ****wit and booing at a home game of any team isn't something i'd do, though i do complain a ****ing lot. It's born out of frustration though and i can understand that after the 10th time where a 3rd and short led to an aimless long shot sailing over Sanders's head that people started to get restless. That's frustrating though, it's arguably even booing that sort of retarded playcalling (which by the way was utterly atrocious all game)

Leslie91

If I'm him I'm retiring... Been there done that, won 1 Superbowl but overall flattered to deceive for me. This Denver team is/should be good enough to beat Indy. Fox, for me has always been a loser.

bruschi

spiralism wrote: »

The whole team was booed in fairness, it was a very flat effort. It's not like his face showed on a screen and led to booing for example. He wasn't singled out by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyone who specifically targeted Manning is a ****wit and booing at a home game of any team isn't something i'd do, though i do complain a ****ing lot. It's born out of frustration though and i can understand that after the 10th time where a 3rd and short led to an aimless long shot sailing over Sanders's head that people started to get restless. That's frustrating though, it's arguably even booing that sort of retarded playcalling (which by the way was utterly atrocious all game)

I think though that there is an expectation that came with Manning, and because it ultimately to now hasnt ended with a superbowl, he hasnt found the same love and adoration as he had with the Colts. It just seems to me that his move to Denver was seen more as a commodity and business move instead of a footballing great going to a floundering team and reinvigorating it. You have to remember where Denver was to where it has gone and is now, and how much Manning has done to help make that transition. Is he really appreciated for what he is or has done? Or is he treated as just another cog in the wheel and now is time to let go.

spiralism

bruschi wrote: »

I think though that there is an expectation that came with Manning, and because it ultimately to now hasnt ended with a superbowl, he hasnt found the same love and adoration as he had with the Colts. It just seems to me that his move to Denver was seen more as a commodity and business move instead of a footballing great going to a floundering team and reinvigorating it. You have to remember where Denver was to where it has gone and is now, and how much Manning has done to help make that transition. Is he really appreciated for what he is or has done? Or is he treated as just another cog in the wheel and now is time to let go.

We may have been astray, thanks largely to Shanahan's and McDaniels's (cheers for him btw) mismanagement but over the years in the NFL the Broncos have consistently been an elite team. Manning brought the good times back the same way Harbaugh brought them back to SF but the standard is high so i feel we'll look back on his time the same way niners fans look back on Harbaugh's stint as coach. Of course he's appreciated but he won't get the same adulation as Elway for example because Elway is the Broncos.

adrian522

I'd be surprised if he wasn't back next year to be honest. Bad way to go out, I still think he has a lot to offer and feel he would have another good year in him .

eagle eye

Well just to pick on a point there, they were in the playoffs the year before with a certain Tim Tebow at QB. Their defense was fantastic that season so its not like he came into a very bad team. They were on the up before he got there. They had a good OL and two excellent WRs in Thomas and Decker. Their problems were QB and RB.

Manning will always be remembered as one of the greatest regular season QBs in NFL history but his playoff credentials are poor when compared to his regular season exploits.

Over the last couple of weeks he has looked like an old man on the field. I don't know if he has been ailing due to injuries or if he has just hit the age wall but there has certainly been something going on for a couple of months now.

spiralism

Just to totally invigorate a debate here now:

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Broncos QB Peyton Manning played Sunday’s Divisional Playoff loss and the past month of the season with a torn right quad, per two sources.

That's a whole other story now so. David M.Chao, a doctor (who i will point out was unceremoniously fired by the Chargers for malpractice so take this with a big pinch of salt here) also tweeted during the week that after seeing him practice, he would have been more worried about Manning's thigh than Rodgers's calf for this weekend

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m1 minute ago
Peyton Manning initially tore his right quad Dec. 14 in win over Chargers, per sources. MRI back in Denver confirmed tear.

That does explain quite a bit in the perfomance drop off mind you, but not totally as he'd been out of form since well before that.

dub_skav

The team were misfiring and got exposed in NE and against the Rams, and the dedication to the run was to address that.
Manning struggled with that transition, but he only went completely off the cliff the last few weeks.

This report would explain a lot of that. He may still have struggled adapting to life under centre, but surely not this badly.

I am hesitant to swallow this whole and assume he will be back as good as ever, but it would be nice to know there was an injury reason and that we could hope again

TO.

spiralism wrote: »

This is starting to seriously grate on me so i'll bite. For 364 days we hear how Manning is a bottler who is only good in the regular season, and anyone who defends him doesn't understand the sport and will be let down. Then on a day like today, when we critique Peyton along with the rest of the team when they were universally (save Anderson) dreadful, we're ungrateful bandwagon fans.

First you need to calm down. Secondly the post you quoted didn't say anything about you being bandwagon for knocking Manning. No idea why you brought that up and Thirdly no idea what the team of the poster you quoted has to do with all of this.

Who exactly are Patriots fans to have a go at us, with their HOF QB and GOAT coach? The ****ing worst its got in Foxboro in the past 15 years is losing in the AFC championship game. Yet i often see them complaining just like we're entitled to, because sometimes it's fair to criticise. Don't give me the **** about being disrespectful either cos half of them were saying Brady was in decline after the KC game, which was nowhere near as stark as Manning's slump which has gone on for some three months now.

Thats it get all mad and bring the Pats into the situation. For the record Pats fans have had mixed views on the Pats for a long time. You will find it hard in here even to find 2 Pats fans that share 100% the exact same point of view. But I have no idea why you would even bring up the Pats when I am quite sure Pats fans are not the only ones having a go at Manning or the Broncos.

For me personally I cringe when fans boo. Whether it is in Gillette or any other stadium especially when you have quality on the field and you are in the playoffs. I may rant on forums like the best of them when I get caught up in the emotions of any game but booing is truly sad in my eyes and not exclusive to the Broncos yesterday.

But hey calm the fook down no one is having a go at Broncos fans in this thread or having a go at you.

adrian522

spiralism wrote: »

Just to totally invigorate a debate here now:



That's a whole other story now so. David M.Chao, a doctor (who i will point out was unceremoniously fired by the Chargers for malpractice so take this with a big pinch of salt here) also tweeted during the week that after seeing him practice, he would have been more worried about Manning's thigh than Rodgers's calf for this weekend



That does explain quite a bit in the perfomance drop off mind you, but not totally as he'd been out of form since well before that.

If the above is true why was this not on the injury report?

TO.

I love Peyton Manning and but he is done with the Broncos that is for sure. As many explained above money will play into that decision. As for his career he might get the right offer elsewhere for one more season plenty of hurting or stupid teams out there. Personally I think he should retire now and maintain that integrity he has always carried. The man is a pure legend and it would be a shame to see him crash and burn in one more season.

matthew8

I don't like fans booing at all but if fans are going to boo then last night was the time to do it. It was an incredibly limp performance from the team, which isn't what you want to see after the last 2 years. If Manning has excuses for his throwing then I really hope he comes back, I think he definitely still has the smarts for it and if the Broncos are going to go into rebuilding that's a much less competitive AFC.

spiralism

adrian522 wrote: »

If the above is true why was this not on the injury report?

It actually was, even this weeks and he was questionable week 16 for one.