Has Peyton Manning Played His Last Game?

Vanolder

A great man for the stats is Peyton. Romo has been on deaths door for months and still producing. Rodgers was in a wheel chair yesterday and dug it out- Peyton doesn't want to know about it, he doesn't like it up him.

Jolly Red Giant

Some rumours beginning to circulate that there was a growing disquiet among the Broncos players over the control Manning was exercising with his ability rapidly declining. The shift to the running offence after the Rams game appears to have come directly as a result of orders from Elway - because it appears Manning wouldn't listen to Fox. There are also rumours that Fox was also getting fed up of Manning with some suggestions that Manning was undermining him by pushing for Gase to replace him. While it wasn't possible to deal with the situation while the Broncos were still in contention - once they were done it looks like Elway and Ellis decided to completely clear house. I would be absolutely astonished if Manning ever pulls on a Broncos jersey again - and I suspect the decision could be made for him a lot sooner than the March date when his contract payment falls due.

kryogen

Well, Elway says he wants him back, he will be consulting with him about the coaching appointments and that the decision will be totally down to Manning if he wants to return or not.

Jolly Red Giant

kryogen wrote: »

Well, Elway says he wants him back, he will be consulting with him about the coaching appointments and that the decision will be totally down to Manning if he wants to return or not.

What did you expect him to say - I'm dumping the geriatric who can't trow the ball or walk five yards for a first down.

Elway won't do anything in relation to Manning before a HC appointment - and if Quinn is on the radar then that could take 3-4 weeks. The ultimate decision about Manning has to be made before 10 March when next years contract kicks in.

The word coming through the grapevine in Dove Valley is -
1. If Manning comes back it will be for 2015 (he will not see out the contract)
2. Manning will only come back of Gase is appointed HC
3. Gase is 3-4 on the list and has a 20% chance of getting the job

And all this is assuming that Elway actually wants Manning to return.

kryogen

Expect him to say not too much different, but he did not need to state that he would be conferring with him about coaching decisions, he could have also just stated that they were going to take stock of things and discuss it with Manning and see where they went.

Morrisseeee

Listening to Elway's comments, he's certainly not dismissing Manning for next season.

The big Q for me is, what was the reason for his very poor performances in the last few games, and in particular this last game. He was...........shocking.
If it was due to an injury or a combination of injuries/tiredness etc then I'd say you'd have to go with him again next season, but use him less and gamble that we make the playoffs and then have him firing on all cylinders, and not just him but the whole team.

Elway mentions that fact, ie. he was very disappointed at our lack of fight/aggression at this stage of the season. And for me that's the most disappointing, going down without being at your best. Excellent players playing sub-par.

Manning has had a great career and is a future HOF'er but...........you'd have to look at the games he's lost and say he hasn't played well in a number of those games. It's definitely a critique that I'd have of him, his ability to pull through when the going gets tough.
He's been unlucky at times also, other teammates making very costly and bizarre errors.

If Manning doesn't play next year for us then our best chance is to let Ozzy have a go at it and if we suck then at least we have a high draft pick the following year.

Jolly Red Giant

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Listening to Elway's comments, he's certainly not dismissing Manning for next season.

The big Q for me is, what was the reason for his very poor performances in the last few games, and in particular this last game. He was...........shocking.
If it was due to an injury or a combination of injuries/tiredness etc then I'd say you'd have to go with him again next season, but use him less and gamble that we make the playoffs and then have him firing on all cylinders, and not just him but the whole team.

Elway mentions that fact, ie. he was very disappointed at our lack of fight/aggression at this stage of the season. And for me that's the most disappointing, going down without being at your best. Excellent players playing sub-par.

Manning has had a great career and is a future HOF'er but...........you'd have to look at the games he's lost and say he hasn't played well in a number of those games. It's definitely a critique that I'd have of him, his ability to pull through when the going gets tough.
He's been unlucky at times also, other teammates making very costly and bizarre errors.

If Manning doesn't play next year for us then our best chance is to let Ozzy have a go at it and if we suck then at least we have a high draft pick the following year.

There is a lot of choreography going on at the moment. Elway will not come out and say that he will dump Manning - and Manning deserves better than being cut. In effect Elway is giving Manning the time to retire and then there will be more choreography around that.

If push comes to shove and Manning does not make a decision to retire then Elway will cut him.

As for Os - he will be given a season to show if he can be an NFL QB - he has the physical attributes to get the job done - he has talent - the question is can he transition these into being an NFL QB. You only find that out when you get him the keys to the car. And if Os is playing we will not suck - there is too much talent on the team to suck.

JaMarcusHustle

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

3. Gase is 3-4 on the list and has a 20% chance of getting the job

That's laughable speculation to be honest. I hope nobody has reported this with a straight face!

Morrisseeee

I dunno JRG, I'm going to take Elway at face value and say he's going to stay with Manning for another year.

Jolly Red Giant

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I dunno JRG, I'm going to take Elway at face value and say he's going to stay with Manning for another year.

Elway actually made a wisecrack at the presser about always telling journalists the truth.

It comes down to two scenarios

1. Elway blames Fox for the defeat and decline on the run in. He backs Manning wanting to toss up jump balls on long routes. He doesn't want to see offensive balance and a running game. He thinks that Manning hasn't suffered any decline as is still the player he was last season and the one before. He believes that Manning will run the offence and be a top 5 QB at 39 years of age and rapidly declining physical skills ( And he has his head buried in the sand).

2. Elway will take his usual pragmatic approach - doing what is needed to build a team capable of winning the SB. He has respect for Manning but recognises that his ability has declined rapidly. He does not want to cut Manning. He repeatedly said during the presser that Manning will have to make his own decision, that he will have to take into account his age, that he will have to look at how he recovers from the physical punishment of football, he will have to judge how his body can stand up to the rigours of football etc. Elway wants Manning to go out with grace and will give him a few weeks (he said 4-5) to make his decision. He is giving Manning time to retire on Manning's terms.

You are suggesting the first is what is happening - I will go with the second.

Paully D

Difficult to see him not coming back with $19m on the table if he does.

Of course he has more money than he could possibly spend, but that sort of money is not going to be easy to pass up even for someone as rich as he is.

He'll be back next season IMO.

Morrisseeee

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You are suggesting the first is what is happening - I will go with the second.

No, you're putting your own slant on my simple suggestion :pac:

Here's your no. 1 in more detail:
I'm taking Elway at face value and reckon he's going to consult with Manning on what the Broncos need to do to win a SB. Elway knows what it takes to win a SB, and that's why he dropped Foxy. They didn't see eye-to-eye with Elway's grand plan.

If Elway deems Manning isn't capable of a SB win then I've no doubt that he'll get the chop, Elway won't hesitate in that regard. But the way I read it is, he's going to give Manning a few weeks to calm down, reflect and present himself to see if he can be up to the challenge. Elway's hands are tied a bit because if he drops Manning what are the other options, not much in terms of a quality QB that can win a SB in the short term !

Jolly Red Giant

Your response is actually a contradiction

You say -

Morrisseeee wrote: »

If Elway deems Manning isn't capable of a SB win then I've no doubt that he'll get the chop, Elway won't hesitate in that regard.

And then say -

but the way I read it is, he's going to give Manning a few weeks to calm down, reflect and present himself to see if he can be up to the challenge.

Elway will not base his decision on whether Manning thinks he is up to the challenge - the reality is that the decision has already been made - what Elway is doing is giving Manning time before he announces his retirement so that it doesn't appear that he was forced into the decision by Elway.

Elway's hands are tied a bit because if he drops Manning what are the other options, not much in terms of a quality QB that can win a SB in the short term !

What is absolutely clear is that Manning's physical ability to play the game has declined rapidly and will continue to decline. The decline has only been a couple of percentage points - but in the NFL that is the difference between playing at HOF level and being a journeyman.

If Manning was to play next season with the Broncos having the same roster then there is zero chance of a SB win. The only way they would have a chance would be if Manning freed up $15million in cap space and acted as a game manager while the defence and the running game was the key. Manning did not mesh with the more balanced attack in the last few games and would not accept such a role.

As for Elway's hands being tied - he is only too well aware that he cannot win with Manning - so why waste a year - find out if Os is up to being an NFL QB - and then plan from there.

Jolly Red Giant

Paully D wrote: »

Difficult to see him not coming back with $19m on the table if he does.

Of course he has more money than he could possibly spend, but that sort of money is not going to be easy to pass up even for someone as rich as he is.

He'll be back next season IMO.

Manning is worth something like $700million - an extra $19million doesn't make a whole heap of difference.

The decision whether is plays as a Bronco or not next year will not be his.

One telltale sign will be if Kubiak gets the HC job - Kubiak will be brought in to develop Os and install a running game along with an offence to suit his skill set, big arm, play action, roll-outs etc. Kubiak will not be HC if the plan was to bring Manning back.

kryogen

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Manning is worth something like $700million - an extra $19million doesn't make a whole heap of difference.

The decision whether is plays as a Bronco or not next year will not be his.

One telltale sign will be if Kubiak gets the HC job - Kubiak will be brought in to develop Os and install a running game along with an offence to suit his skill set, big arm, play action, roll-outs etc. Kubiak will not be HC if the plan was to bring Manning back.

I would love to see where you are pulling that figure from, anywhere I have seen estimate his net worth anywhere between 120-160 million.

mikemac1

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Manning is worth something like $700million - an extra $19million doesn't make a whole heap of difference.

Roger Staubach is worth that figure or close to it and that's due to real estate and not football

Manning wouldn't be over 160 million

helimachoptor

I think he's probably worth higher, American aponosrship is insane but I think less than 250 million

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Manning is worth something like $700million - an extra $19million doesn't make a whole heap of difference.

$700m? Where are you getting that from?
And that $19m is worth a lot to him, or are you suggesting he's doing all those adverts for free as it doesn't make much difference to him?

bruschi

anything I have just looked on google was around the 160 mark. To say he'd just give up on 19 million as he has enough is ridiculous. Money will play a massive part in it, as once he stops playing, a load of those sponsorship deals will go too. He "could" end up earning a nice crust off media deals, but whilst money is one aspect of it, the playing is, IMO, a bigger factor for Manning. Does he really want his final game to be that crap against the Colts? He probably thinks he has more to give, and is close to finishing out a few more records. I dont think he'll retire just to save face and to help the Broncos financial worries.

kryogen

I think after battling back from the neck injury he will not want to go out with a performance like that, even more so if it was brought on more by injury then age.

Jolly Red Giant

munstermagic11 wrote: »

And that $19m is worth a lot to him, or are you suggesting he's doing all those adverts for free as it doesn't make much difference to him?

If Manning is coming back for $19million then all the more reason for Elway to cut him. The only viable reason to play next year is to win the SB.

kryogen

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

If Manning is coming back for $19million then all the more reason for Elway to cut him. The only viable reason to play next year is to win the SB.

Any sign of a bit of back up for the ridiculous figure you spouted earlier chief?

Jolly Red Giant

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

If Manning is coming back for $19million then all the more reason for Elway to cut him. The only viable reason to play next year is to win the SB.

ahh ya your right any 10 year vet in the league should play for free or else they dont care about winning a Super Bowl :rolleyes:

poldebruin

It's hard to know what happens next for the Broncos. The question is, will the incoming HC have more of a say about who his QB will be or will Manning have more of a say about who the next HC will be. Also, I believe Osweiler is a FA at the end of 2015. With a 2nd round draft pick and 4 years grooming invested in him, it would be tough to let him walk to another team at years end, leaving us with a QB search.

This is what I believe (or wish to believe) will happen)

I think the dramatic performance dip from Manning is related to multiple leg injuries. His throwing motion just did not look right. I read that after his neck surgery he reconstructed his throwing motion and needed to compensate for a complete lack of arm strength by using his hips and legs (almost exclusively) to generate power. There is a good article about it here. I think he can come back.

If Manning was truly injured and can return with similar form he showed in the early part of the season (where he was by all accounts still doing a very capable Peyton Manning impression) we should try to limit his pitch count and tailor an offence around him again for another year. There is just not enough serviceable QB options in the NFL if you want to completely change direction. Up to the Rams game Manning was (either) at the (or near the) top in almost every passing category.

I would hope Manning would consider taking a pay cut for what would likely be his final year in Denver. If Denver do part ways, I don't see them seeking a trade - how many teams would give up anything for a $20 million QB, with one year left in him, with serious health concerns?

spiralism

I get the feeling he'll be back but we'll push for a restructuring pretty hard. If he wants back in, its an all in gamble for next year and Elway's gonna try hold on to players. As it is we're gonna lose two out of Knighton (Oakland bound, about 90% sure) DT and JT. We'll franchise DT and if he stays, they'd probably like to keep Julius as well which is highly unlikely as things stand.

Being honest, Manning was obviously declining before his injury, he hadnt played well for a few weeks before it. That said, a great defence and run game and it is certainly possible to win around him, rather than depending on him. Teams have certainly won that way many times in the past number of seasons and a 70% Manning is still on the level of many. I don't think he's declined to the point where he was on sunday that rapidly.

HOWEVER, this did also happen with Favre in his last season. His skills faded because he got injured and wasn't able to recover like he used to. That's why he looked like he did his final year.

I don't know how i feel about it at all yet personally tbh.

dub_skav

spiralism wrote: »

I get the feeling he'll be back but we'll push for a restructuring pretty hard. If he wants back in, its an all in gamble for next year and Elway's gonna try hold on to players. As it is we're gonna lose two out of Knighton (Oakland bound, about 90% sure) DT and JT. We'll franchise DT and if he stays, they'd probably like to keep Julius as well which is highly unlikely as things stand.

Being honest, Manning was obviously declining before his injury, he hadnt played well for a few weeks before it. That said, a great defence and run game and it is certainly possible to win around him, rather than depending on him. Teams have certainly won that way many times in the past number of seasons and a 70% Manning is still on the level of many. I don't think he's declined to the point where he was on sunday that rapidly.

HOWEVER, this did also happen with Favre in his last season. His skills faded because he got injured and wasn't able to recover like he used to. That's why he looked like he did his final year.

I don't know how i feel about it at all yet personally tbh.

I'd imagine you're pessimistic

Morrisseeee

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The decision whether is plays as a Bronco or not next year will not be his.

One telltale sign will be if Kubiak gets the HC job - Kubiak will be brought in to develop Os and install a running game along with an offence to suit his skill set, big arm, play action, roll-outs etc. Kubiak will not be HC if the plan was to bring Manning back.

Well, Kubiak is in, Gase out, so..........it's all going to plan JRG

Now..........we just need a decent QB, hmmmmm

Could Oz be the next Flacco !?!

Jolly Red Giant

I would suggest that this thread be merged with the Broncos thread as developments in relation to Peyton Manning are linked directly to future plans by the Broncos.

Interesting stories coming out of Dove Valley in the last couple of days.

1. Manning is looking for individual meetings with Joe Ellis, John Elway and Gary Kubiak to discuss his future - however it appears that the Broncos are only willing to grant a meeting involving Elway and Kubiak jointly (and it looks like it will take place at the combine rather than in Dove Valley).

2. Manning is demanding significant elements of control over the offence the Broncos would run next season - Kubiak appears to only be offering some tweaking of the WCO scheme he operates to facilitate Manning (specifically in allowing him some control over the 2 minute offence)

3. It appears that Elway and Kubiak have not decided whether they actually want Manning back or not. Their thinking is that they could use next season to see if Osweiler is capable of being an NFL QB and if he is not then they have the option of drafting a QB in 2016 in what is considered a good QB class.

4. Manning is claiming he will have no problem passing his medical next month, however, it appears that it is the Broncos who will set the parameters for the medical and it will be the Broncos medical staff who will carry it out. If Manning fails the medical his $19million contract is void and he leaves without the Broncos having to cut him (rumours have surfaced that the Titans will allow him to pass any medical he wants).

Interesting times - and I am still of the opinion that Manning will not be a Bronco next season.

JaMarcusHustle

There is an awful lot of assumptions and claims in that post, where are you reading all that? Sources? Number 3 in particular is a tough one to believe.

mikemac1

mikemac1 wrote: »

Roger Staubach is worth that figure or close to it and that's due to real estate and not football

Manning wouldn't be over 160 million

Ooooooooh close.

According to this, $165 million...

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nfl/peyton-manning-net-worth/

Now, I appreciate that that is a guesstimate, but still at least it contains some analysis.