Threatened this morning! :(

OldNotWIse

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Also, I disagree with this thing where people are saying he would have slowed down for a young child. Well first off, he wouldn't have had to, he could have simply gone around the child whereas that wouldn't be as easy with a dog. But more importantly, it wasn't a child, it was a dog. The two don't equate in any way. People treating dogs like children is half the problem.

How does that translate into day to day life? What do they do to treat the dogs like children that other dog-owners don't do? And how do you know there is any correlation between such treatment and issues re control?

MayoAreMagic

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Anything is possible but..

I know Bailey. I've met Bailey. He's possibly the most well trained dog in Ireland because he's got a dedicated owner, and he's had numerous health issues which have meant really focussed training to ensure he doesn't over exert himself, or hurt himself in the process of recuperation. He's very responsive and he's also very tuned into his owner and his family, nobody else really matters or are on his radar. Something this man did threatened him in some way, and in fairness, shouting and gesturing are a sure fire way to get a dog frightened and acting out.

Im sure he is well trained. Best trained in the country, very unlikely, but generally well behaved. That doesn't mean he is infallible though, therefore the assumption that he couldn't have misbehaved in the slightest is simply unfair. Look at the top class border collies for example. Trained to unbelievable levels by professional trainers where every move is planned. Yet they let their trainers down too sometimes. You simply cant assume that the man is 100% to blame. Why would he want the hassle? Be reasonable. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with him, but every dog will act out sometimes, if you don't know that then you don't know enough about your pet.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'd love to know what people mean when they say that some people treat dogs like children. If it means treating them as part of the family and including them and interacting with them rather than just banishing them to a back garden (which can lead to a whole load of behavioural problems, but that's another thread) then the more people that treat them like children the better..

I mean people superimpose human emotions and behaviours onto their dogs and assume they are feeling them. Generally these emotions are childlike and innocent. But of course very often , the dog doesn't feel like this at all. He is actually working off a very different mentality and is wired completely differently, far more robust in nature. so when someone thinks 'aw look at fido playing with his toy, he loves it', he is actually honing is hunting skills. This in turn can also leads to behavioural problems.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And people who think because it's a dog then it's ok to kick them? They'd be arrested if it was a child.

Well you see, again, dogs and people are not the same. Dogs, within their own packs, regularly use physical correction. That isn't kicking lumps out of them obviously, but the training that goes on within the dogs natural environment is quite physical in nature. Again, people apply human logic onto dogs and the natural behaviour of the dog is lost in the process.

borderlinemeath

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Im sure he is well trained. Best trained in the country, very unlikely, but generally well behaved. That doesn't mean he is infallible though, therefore the assumption that he couldn't have misbehaved in the slightest is simply unfair. Look at the top class border collies for example. Trained to unbelievable levels by professional trainers where every move is planned. Yet they let their trainers down too sometimes. You simply cant assume that the man is 100% to blame. Why would he want the hassle? Be reasonable. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with him, but every dog will act out sometimes, if you don't know that then you don't know enough about your pet.

Somebody that shouts and gestures at a dog and threatens the owner hasn't the first clue how to behave around dogs. One of the first things you teach a child if they are approached by a strange dog that is acting aggressively is not to scream or put their hands up and back away slowly. According to the OP this didn't happen so I assume this man hasn't the first clue how to behave around dogs full stop.

I mean people superimpose human emotions and behaviours onto their dogs and assume they are feeling them. Generally these emotions are childlike and innocent. But of course very often , the dog doesn't feel like this at all. He is actually working off a very different mentality and is wired completely differently, far more robust in nature. so when someone thinks 'aw look at fido playing with his toy, he loves it', he is actually honing is hunting skills. This in turn can also leads to behavioural problems.

Anthropomorphising your dog doesn't translate to "treating your dog like a child". It's actually been scientifically proven that dogs do have emotions and will have emotional interactions with their owners, they're not the robotic hunters you make them out to be, you can't say that every dog playing with a ball is "honing their hunting skills", they're certainly exercising their brains but not every dog was bred to hunt. Take some of the smaller lap dogs for example, they still enjoy interaction with toys because it's interaction with their owner, they have little or no hunting skills. My dogs are hunting setters and one loves to play ball, but will never shred it, same with soft toys, she treats them with a soft mouth. To pigeonhole all breeds and all dogs into a one size fits all certainly will lead to behavioural problems.

Well you see, again, dogs and people are not the same. Dogs, within their own packs, regularly use physical correction. That isn't kicking lumps out of them obviously, but the training that goes on within the dogs natural environment is quite physical in nature. Again, people apply human logic onto dogs and the natural behaviour of the dog is lost in the process.

A dogs natural behaviour is never lost. It may lie dormant, but skills learned from their mother and siblings (when most correction, and most importantly, bite inhibition is taught) are never lost.

I still don't follow how you can correlate that treating dogs like children (or whatever your interpretation of it is) is bad for the dog. - Parents teach their children bounderies using rewards and punishments (time outs) and will educate, mentally stimulate, be a lifelong companion to, and ultimately be their guidance for life. Exactly what a dog needs, the only difference is a child will grow up whereas a dog maintains their toddler capable mind for their lifetime.

MayoAreMagic

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Somebody that shouts and gestures at a dog and threatens the owner hasn't the first clue how to behave around dogs. One of the first things you teach a child if they are approached by a strange dog that is acting aggressively is not to scream or put their hands up and back away slowly. According to the OP this didn't happen so I assume this man hasn't the first clue how to behave around dogs full stop.

Well I was referring to the second instance, where the op didn't now what happened. It is quite probable that the dog remembered this person and became defensive when the guy was just running along minding his own business. In fact, not only is it probable, it is the most probable set of events that could have taken place.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Anthropomorphising your dog doesn't translate to "treating your dog like a child". It's actually been scientifically proven that dogs do have emotions and will have emotional interactions with their owners, they're not the robotic hunters you make them out to be, you can't say that every dog playing with a ball is "honing their hunting skills", they're certainly exercising their brains but not every dog was bred to hunt. Take some of the smaller lap dogs for example, they still enjoy interaction with toys because it's interaction with their owner, they have little or no hunting skills. My dogs are hunting setters and one loves to play ball, but will never shred it, same with soft toys, she treats them with a soft mouth. To pigeonhole all breeds and all dogs into a one size fits all certainly will lead to behavioural problems.

Well when those human behaviours are practically all child-like it does... Also, I never said dogs don't have emotions, I stated that people superimpose human-styled emotion and behaviour onto dogs in certain situations, when in fact the dog is very often feeling differently to what is assumed by their owner. Furthermore, I never stated that all behaviours revolved around hunting, I simply gave an example of one which happened to be hunting. In future please refrain from changing my points...

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I still don't follow how you can correlate that treating dogs like children (or whatever your interpretation of it is) is bad for the dog. - Parents teach their children bounderies using rewards and punishments (time outs) and will educate, mentally stimulate, be a lifelong companion to, and ultimately be their guidance for life. Exactly what a dog needs, the only difference is a child will grow up whereas a dog maintains their toddler capable mind for their lifetime.

It is bad for a dog because they are not children, and so treating them in this way is not how they would be treated in their natural environment. Just like if a human child was raised by a dog, the child's behaviours would not be natural, which in turn could lead to behavioural issues down the line. Of course children are educated etc, but the methods used to do this are human-based aren't they?

sillysmiles

tk123 wrote: »

My dog has barked at somebody who I now consider extremely dangerous/unstable twice in a year to tell them not to come near ME not because he runs around chasing people for his own amusement every day- and after what happened I can only assume the dog sensed something in this person that frightened him.

Am I reading this right. This guy in the park is chasing people and the dog got between you and him? If so I would report him to the guards for intimidation and stalkerish/weird behaviour. It is not ok for someone to run at another person in the dark of the morning*. Is he a little unhinged?
I walk my dog in the morning before work - at the moment it is very dark. I would be suspicous of anyone wandering around a park at that hour of the morning without a real reason.

If I have the time line wrong - apologies

tk123

sillysmiles wrote: »

Am I reading this right. This guy in the park is chasing people and the dog got between you and him? If so I would report him to the guards for intimidation and stalkerish/weird behaviour. It is not ok for someone to run at another person in the dark of the morning*. Is he a little unhinged?
I walk my dog in the morning before work - at the moment it is very dark. I would be suspicous of anyone wandering around a park at that hour of the morning without a real reason.

If I have the time line wrong - apologies

No lol - I meant the DOG isn't running around chasing people for fun with me standing doing nothing or not caring.

The guy isn't a runner either btw - I don't know where that came from. He's cutting through the park in the mornings to save five mins.

The dog barked at him last year and all of a sudden ran and barked at him the other morning - after us passing him pretty much every weekday for the last year without incident. While the guy was screaming at me to control my dog and threatening to kick him he was also stamping/shouting/rushing at him and basically terrifying him and giving him a reason to think he had to bark and scare the guy away - all the while pushing him further away from me and preventing me from controlling him.

Just to claify I'm not some idiot that thinks my dog can do no wrong - I said that in my opening post that I wasn't looking to excuse his behavior and was sharing to ask advice from other owners.

borderlinemeath

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well I was referring to the second instance, where the op didn't now what happened. It is quite probable that the dog remembered this person and became defensive when the guy was just running along minding his own business. In fact, not only is it probable, it is the most probable set of events that could have taken place.




Well when those human behaviours are practically all child-like it does... Also, I never said dogs don't have emotions, I stated that people superimpose human-styled emotion and behaviour onto dogs in certain situations, when in fact the dog is very often feeling differently to what is assumed by their owner. Furthermore, I never stated that all behaviours revolved around hunting, I simply gave an example of one which happened to be hunting. In future please refrain from changing my points...

I certainly didn't change your points, you might have given an example but you stated it like it was fact.

It is bad for a dog because they are not children, and so treating them in this way is not how they would be treated in their natural environment. Just like if a human child was raised by a dog, the child's behaviours would not be natural, which in turn could lead to behavioural issues down the line. Of course children are educated etc, but the methods used to do this are human-based aren't they?

It depends on what you consider a dogs natural environment. Shut out in a garden or a pen isn't their natural environment. With their family is their natural environment, be that working dogs, or companion pets. Dogs have evolved from wolves over 15,000 years to be human companions, not to be excluded from their family. You state that dogs correct each other in packs, but the overwhelming majority of dogs live with their human family, not within a pack environment, multi dog households still revolve around the human family, not the dog family. If they do they've failed hugely at training.

I really don't know where your going with your "human raised by dogs" analogy because it makes no sense and has no relevance.

The methods of education/training are not dissimilar, find the dogs motivation and reward for the required behaviour. Dog learning housetraining - learns to go outside, gets rewarded. The days of rubbing the dogs nose in accidents are long gone. Child learns potty training rather than a nappy, gets rewarded.

MayoAreMagic

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I certainly didn't change your points, you might have given an example but you stated it like it was fact.

They were facts...

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It depends on what you consider a dogs natural environment

In a pack with other dogs I would imagine...

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I really don't know where your going with your "human raised by dogs" analogy because it makes no sense and has no relevance.

Pretty straightforward actually. A dog raised as a human will have behavioural issues, just as a human raised as a dog would too. Neither is correct. Completely sensible and relevant to the point.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The methods of education/training are not dissimilar, find the dogs motivation and reward for the required behaviour. Dog learning housetraining - learns to go outside, gets rewarded. The days of rubbing the dogs nose in accidents are long gone. Child learns potty training rather than a nappy, gets rewarded.

Reward it how though? Cuddling him? Talking to him in a silly voice and kissing him? Funny, I never seen many dogs do any of that to each other.
Also, it might not have occurred to you, but I have a lot of experience with dogs, often ones with troublesome behaviours.

Alun

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Dogs have evolved from wolves over 15,000 years to be human companions, not to be excluded from their family. You state that dogs correct each other in packs, but the overwhelming majority of dogs live with their human family, not within a pack environment, multi dog households still revolve around the human family, not the dog family.

Indeed. There was a recent program on the BBC, one of the many 'secret lives of dogs' programs that amongst other things showed how dogs' relationship with humans has evolved over the centuries to be a very different one to their relationships with other dogs. For instance they look at our faces in a different way, a more human way, to the way they look at other dogs' faces in order to judge emotions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK7wp2xWOo4

borderlinemeath

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They were facts...

In your opinion. That's the great thing about a discussion board, I can disagree with your facts. And it read like you were pigeonholing all dogs.

In a pack with other dogs I would imagine...

Not at all.
Dogs are domesticated pets. They evolved from wolves. But they are not wolves, they don't live in packs, and most wouldn't survive if they had to live with a pack of dogs. They depend on humans for survival.

Pretty straightforward actually. A dog raised as a human will have behavioural issues, just as a human raised as a dog would too. Neither is correct. Completely sensible and relevant to the point.

Puppies are raised for 8-9wks with their mother and siblings, leave them too long and behavioural issues can begin as they'll have no human integration and socialisation skills. Left for the long term the mother will probably fight with the bitches and mate with the sons. Take a puppy at the appropriate age and they then get the rest of their training for life skills with their human family. Raised with human interpretations of training.

Humans are never raised as a dog, it's not natural, bar the rare sensationalist story of somebody found living wild since childhood, usually in Russia after being abandoned by alcoholic parents :rolleyes: so that's why it's a totally irrelevant comparison to make.

Reward it how though? Cuddling him? Talking to him in a silly voice and kissing him? Funny, I never seen many dogs do any of that to each other.
Also, it might not have occurred to you, but I have a lot of experience with dogs, often ones with troublesome behaviours.

Actually, praise in a high pitched, happy toned voice is EXACTLY the way to reward a dog, along with whatever motivation they have, be it food, toys or tactile cuddling.

So while you have experience have you got relevant up to date training to back it up? Most people that claim to have "a lot of experience" have no formal training and subscribe to methods and theories that are considered outdated in the training world.

borderlinemeath

Alun wrote: »

Indeed. There was a recent program on the BBC, one of the many 'secret lives of dogs' programs that amongst other things showed how dogs' relationship with humans has evolved over the centuries to be a very different one to their relationships with other dogs. For instance they look at our faces in a different way, a more human way, to the way they look at other dogs' faces in order to judge emotions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK7wp2xWOo4

Absolutely. One of the first things a dog learns is that when a dog shows it's teeth it's a warning sign but to see a humans teeth when they smile is a positive experience. They're far smarter animals than some people give them credit for.

mattser

Karen91 wrote: »

I have seen more responsible owners than irresponsible ones yes there are some but that does not mean they are all the same. I used to walk my dog at Lake near by and on the paths in our town but I had to stop because of joggers and parents who will not control their kids, I have only ever had one bad experience with a dog off lead but generally its people that cause the drama and when I say people I mean people who don't own dogs.

Why would a jogger make you stop walking your dog ? Apart from the obvious, like if he was aggressive to you. Just curious.

Karen91

mattser wrote: »

Why would a jogger make you stop walking your dog ? Apart from the obvious, like if he was aggressive to you. Just curious.

I live in Co Limerick in a small town and I had two walking routines with her I used to walk her on the foot paths in the town or Lough Gur which is nearby. They set up a running club in the town and basically they took over the foot paths theres about 20 of them out running at the same time a few evenings per week and sadly it has become a nightmare for dog owners in the locality.

It happened a few times that I was walking her and some of these runners would come from behind and there was 3 of them who would scream to get out of their way, gave no warning that they were coming up behind us and one night she got a fright and barked at one of them and he put out his leg and kicked her as he was passing for no reason I had full control of her she was standing close to me and I had wrapped her lead aroud my hand a few times to let them pass so for her safety I stopped walking her in the town

I just want to walk my dog in peace without controversy other people have experienced the same thing and sarcastic remarks that just make them feel uncomfortable.

I now walk her in the Ballyhouras, its nice to take her walking now without any hassle!

mattser

Karen91 wrote: »

I live in Co Limerick in a small town and I had two walking routines with her I used to walk her on the foot paths in the town or Lough Gur which is nearby. They set up a running club in the town and basically they took over the foot paths theres about 20 of them out running at the same time a few evenings per week and sadly it has become a nightmare for dog owners in the locality.

It happened a few times that I was walking her and some of these runners would come from behind and there was 3 of them who would scream to get out of their way, gave no warning that they were coming up behind us and one night she got a fright and barked at one of them and he put out his leg and kicked her as he was passing for no reason I had full control of her she was standing close to me and I had wrapped her lead aroud my hand a few times to let them pass so for her safety I stopped walking her in the town

I just want to walk my dog in peace without controversy other people have experienced the same thing and sarcastic remarks that just make them feel uncomfortable.

I now walk her in the Ballyhouras, its nice to take her walking now without any hassle!

Well I'm a regular jogger and have had difficulty at times with dogs off leash. Your situation is perfectly understandable, and downright unfair. You, and people like you, were there first, and should have some sort of priority. It's just wrong that you feel uncomfortable.
I'm glad that you're both happy on your new route, and wish both of you many happy walks.

ambro25

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It sounds like your dog might suffer from leash reactivity, where he knows he's tethered so is always willing to put up a fight. His aggression has probably kept a number of dogs away so for him it works.

That is entirely possible indeed, and something I am reading about currently, as it happens all the same, considering the fight risk, we simply can't let him off gradually at all (other than temporarily when no dogs are around within hundreds of yards). Too many dogs around and frequently, leashed or not, which he clearly hates (esp. Dogues de bordeaux, malamutes, springers, cockers, spaniels and the weird new age 'fashion-led mixers') and reciprocally.

You say he gets on with some dogs, would this be in a more relaxed situation where he might be off lead, ie with other family members dogs?

No. No other family member dogs, and most friends' dogs are no-goes at all. But there's a couple of Yorkshire terriers who are very frequently walked by their owner at the same time as ours, along the same path, and they're the only two he has never bothered with (consistently, for years). He just ignores them or, well, "lives and lets them live" even when they should be 'in range'. Weird, as he has gone for other 'unknown' yorkies. At a loss to explain why only these two seem 'socially acceptable' to ours when, in behavioural terms, they're no different to most other dogs around.

Ultra-strong prey drive is not helping (I've had wire dachs before and worked them to flush roes and boars in a past life...never saw any one of them rocket after a stupid-big wild boar like that Patterdale did the other week (was inFrance for Xmas, was walking dog in woods, came nose to nose with a solitary, black as the ace of spades and the size of a great dane - daft dog tore off after it like it was a squirrel or such...Jayyyysus moment indeed! And don't get me started about the ratting and digging/earth 'work')). It's a challenging breed to begin with, and this one, rescued, clearly wasn't weaned & socialised properly, nor had an easy early life (fag burn marks/scars and other signs of abuse as a pup). Have I made enough excuses yet?

DarkJager

Karen91 wrote: »

It happened a few times that I was walking her and some of these runners would come from behind and there was 3 of them who would scream to get out of their way, gave no warning that they were coming up behind us and one night she got a fright and barked at one of them and he put out his leg and kicked her as he was passing for no reason I had full control of her she was standing close to me and I had wrapped her lead aroud my hand a few times to let them pass so for her safety I stopped walking her in the town

Which area did this happen.in? If someone kicked my dog like that, he wouldn't be joining his running club again for quite a while.

DBB

DarkJager wrote: »

Which area did this happen.in? If someone kicked my dog like that, he wouldn't be joining his running club again for quite a while.

This sort of talk that advocates any form or aggression of violence against animals or humans is not allowed in this forum. It's your prerogative to do what you want in your own time, but do not use this forum to advocate violent acts.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Qualitymark

@tk123 This sounds like a nasty encounter - though I can't see from what you said where the man threatened either you or your dog.
It sounds as if you're correct, and changing your walk time to avoid him is the best idea.

tk123

I decided to give the park a miss yesterday morning so we did the route we'd normally take in the evenings. Grand... until I took them out the same route yesterday and they weren't impressed and had to be dragged along! :rolleyes:

This morning I decided to try the park again but bring back my patented buddy system in the 'safe areas' to give him a bit of freedom and let him have a sniff around on the grass etc..and so I could stay on the path and avoid stepping in any poo hidden under cover of darkness.
A role reversal with Lucy minding her big bro instead of the other way around.

OldNotWIse

tk123 wrote: »

I decided to give the park a miss yesterday morning so we did the route we'd normally take in the evenings. Grand... until I took them out the same route yesterday and they weren't impressed and had to be dragged along! :rolleyes:

This morning I decided to try the park again but bring back my patented buddy system in the 'safe areas' to give him a bit of freedom and let him have a sniff around on the grass etc..and so I could stay on the path and avoid stepping in any poo hidden under cover of darkness.
A role reversal with Lucy minding her big bro instead of the other way around.

That's a brilliant idea!

Tasden

Karen91 wrote: »

I have seen more responsible owners than irresponsible ones yes there are some but that does not mean they are all the same. I used to walk my dog at Lake near by and on the paths in our town but I had to stop because of joggers and parents who will not control their kids, I have only ever had one bad experience with a dog off lead but generally its people that cause the drama and when I say people I mean people who don't own dogs.

But those people don't own dogs because they don't want/like them or they genuinely fear them. And its for that very reason that they cause "drama" when a dog approaches them and the owner does nothing to stop it- and the constantly used "ah he won't do anything, he's harmless/doesn't bite" isn't doing something.

Owners are well within their rights to have their dog off the lead if they can control them (which the majority do), but if all you can do is offer a "he doesn't bite" whenever he is annoying people rather than actually stopping him from pawing at the persons feet then the dog shouldn't really be kept off the lead or else if he is then you're going to have to be prepared for "drama" or people getting annoyed/upset/frightened.

As long as the dog is well trained and leaves people alone once the owner intervenes that's fine but there are plenty owners that allow the dog to continue, despite seeing the person is not pleased, and all they do is say "oh he's ok he won't bite" and that means nothing to the person who wants to be left alone in peace. And then the next time it happens, even if this dog may be well trained and controlled easily, the person is automatically on edge because of previous experience where nothing was done.

People would be just as annoyed if a parent allowed a child to constantly pull out of them or get in their way while they're trying to walk, its fine once the parents intervene straight away but if they just watched and said "oh its ok his hands are clean he won't get your suit dirty" it doesn't help the situation at all.

mattser

Tasden wrote: »

But those people don't own dogs because they don't want/like them or they genuinely fear them. And its for that very reason that they cause "drama" when a dog approaches them and the owner does nothing to stop it- and the constantly used "ah he won't do anything, he's harmless/doesn't bite" isn't doing something.

Owners are well within their rights to have their dog off the lead if they can control them (which the majority do), but if all you can do is offer a "he doesn't bite" whenever he is annoying people rather than actually stopping him from pawing at the persons feet then the dog shouldn't really be kept off the lead or else if he is then you're going to have to be prepared for "drama" or people getting annoyed/upset/frightened.

As long as the dog is well trained and leaves people alone once the owner intervenes that's fine but there are plenty owners that allow the dog to continue, despite seeing the person is not pleased, and all they do is say "oh he's ok he won't bite" and that means nothing to the person who wants to be left alone in peace. And then the next time it happens, even if this dog may be well trained and controlled easily, the person is automatically on edge because of previous experience where nothing was done.

People would be just as annoyed if a parent allowed a child to constantly pull out of them or get in their way while they're trying to walk, its fine once the parents intervene straight away but if they just watched and said "oh its ok his hands are clean he won't get your suit dirty" it doesn't help the situation at all.

Heard it so many times when jogging. Drives me nuts, particularly when it's running behind you. How the hell are you supposed to know ?

Tasden

mattser wrote: »

Heard it so many times when jogging. Drives me nuts, particularly when it's running behind you. How the hell are you supposed to know ?

Also, I would hope most dogs don't go around biting random people! That's not the issue, I'd just rather not have a dog sniffing at my ankles, jumping on me and running around my feet so that I cant walk, so the fact he doesn't bite is no consolation really

DeclanJWhite

Why is that man off his lead? Where is his owner? Is that two-legged, upright animal a stray or does he have a collar with an identification tag?? Hmm...

You dealt with him bravely and you're not afraid of him. It's only a matter of time before he's afraid of you and instead of seeing him on the paths, you'll see him scowling from his hiding place in the bushes somewhere. You were dead right in what you said to him and you did it well by the sounds of it.

Carry a stick next time and if he starts barking at you, throw it far and hard; I'd be surprised if he didn't run off after it!

tk123

Well he was back to himself this morning playing with Lucy and romping around... After we saw a FOX!! So maybe that's why he's been a bit jumpy and out of sorts the last while? He'd been barking at bushes behind a house a few times that has chickens - I assumed because of a cat but maybe it's been the fox because that's where it went when it saw us. I'm still being extra careful with him off lead but the brighter mornings can't come quick enough!

TrishSimon

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Are dogs supposed to be muzzled when in public places?

I tried to find out but can't find the info'

This only refers to dogs on the restricted breeds list which at the moment is really out of date with times but if you check that you will see its dogs like GSD some Akita's, Bull breeds, Rotweilers etc.

jopax

DeclanJWhite wrote: »

Why is that man off his lead? Where is his owner? Is that two-legged, upright animal a stray or does he have a collar with an identification tag?? Hmm...

You dealt with him bravely and you're not afraid of him. It's only a matter of time before he's afraid of you and instead of seeing him on the paths, you'll see him scowling from his hiding place in the bushes somewhere. You were dead right in what you said to him and you did it well by the sounds of it.

Carry a stick next time and if he starts barking at you, throw it far and hard; I'd be surprised if he didn't run off after it!

LOL

OldNotWIse

Tasden wrote: »

But those people don't own dogs because they don't want/like them or they genuinely fear them. And its for that very reason that they cause "drama" when a dog approaches them and the owner does nothing to stop it- and the constantly used "ah he won't do anything, he's harmless/doesn't bite" isn't doing something.

Owners are well within their rights to have their dog off the lead if they can control them (which the majority do), but if all you can do is offer a "he doesn't bite" whenever he is annoying people rather than actually stopping him from pawing at the persons feet then the dog shouldn't really be kept off the lead or else if he is then you're going to have to be prepared for "drama" or people getting annoyed/upset/frightened.

As long as the dog is well trained and leaves people alone once the owner intervenes that's fine but there are plenty owners that allow the dog to continue, despite seeing the person is not pleased, and all they do is say "oh he's ok he won't bite" and that means nothing to the person who wants to be left alone in peace. And then the next time it happens, even if this dog may be well trained and controlled easily, the person is automatically on edge because of previous experience where nothing was done.

People would be just as annoyed if a parent allowed a child to constantly pull out of them or get in their way while they're trying to walk, its fine once the parents intervene straight away but if they just watched and said "oh its ok his hands are clean he won't get your suit dirty" it doesn't help the situation at all.

I don't think I've ever seen a dog "pawing at someone's feet"

Tasden

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen a dog "pawing at someone's feet"

I dunno how to talk doggy speak! I assumed people would know what i was on about!

mattser

Tasden wrote: »

I dunno how to talk doggy speak! I assumed people would know what i was on about!

Most people would