Warhammer: Total War

killanena

Christy42 wrote: »

I think facing Chaos as the Empire is just tough. I felt under the cosh the entire time but they are not a normal faction. You don't have to go to them to wipe them out. I really felt like I was about to be destroyed by them a few times but managed to cling on for long enough.

I went with the Zap Brannigan solution of throwing wave after wave of my own men into them. Built a few stacks and blunted (generally did not beat) and then rebuilt and went again to finish them off. In between waves I would grab back the more valuable settlements for cash as long as it was not too far from me defensively. I did not get to expand for a while but I just avoided losing too much ground till eventually they ran of warriors.

They make it easy to at least stop other factions from attacking you with diplomacy as well so you can just focus on stopping them. It probably also helped a lot that I had not expanded north beforehand so I had a few mini empire factions as buffers and was not dependent on settlements close to the north.

What I didn't think of actually is the addition of all the dlc's races that are treats too. Id imaging the empire campaign is much more difficult now with the addition of beast men, crooked moon and norsca if playing the base game. The faction they had to give the AI a whole starting province just to give it a chance.

Im not the biggest fan of the empire as a faction (Love their lore) so I haven't actually played a full campaign as them sense my very first one.

I might start one with them on mortal empires as talking about TW is giving me an itch to play it now :P

eeguy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Thanks. The Empire doesn't seem to be terribly well endowed with good infantry. They have no fliers apart from lords specced out with Pegasus or a Griffon. That said, the castle walls are immensely helpful.

If you have the time, I'd watch some Heir of Carthage videos on Youtube and see what he brings against them.

The Empire is a jack of all trades army. I didn't use any magic the first time I played and I was surprised how much it can swing a battle if used right.

ancapailldorcha

It's getting better now. Doing a mix of autoresolving and fighting actual battles against non-Chaos factions.

killanena wrote: »

Have you tried any mods from the workshop? Some make the game easier, Some make the AI more fair. There is one that pushes the choas invasion off for another 50 turns which I personally liked as it give time to factions to expand.

I remember my first play through when I got the first game at release was as Empire on normal difficulty and I found it quite hard to beat chaos as I didn't expand much at all.

I'm a bit weird when it comes to mods. I don't know what it is but I can't seem to get the idea of modding a game. XCOM Long War is the sole exception. I like this sound of this one though. I've tried googling and info on when Chaos appears seems to be a tad thin on the ground.

Christy42 wrote: »

I think facing Chaos as the Empire is just tough. I felt under the cosh the entire time but they are not a normal faction. You don't have to go to them to wipe them out. I really felt like I was about to be destroyed by them a few times but managed to cling on for long enough.

I went with the Zap Brannigan solution of throwing wave after wave of my own men into them. Built a few stacks and blunted (generally did not beat) and then rebuilt and went again to finish them off. In between waves I would grab back the more valuable settlements for cash as long as it was not too far from me defensively. I did not get to expand for a while but I just avoided losing too much ground till eventually they ran of warriors.

They make it easy to at least stop other factions from attacking you with diplomacy as well so you can just focus on stopping them. It probably also helped a lot that I had not expanded north beforehand so I had a few mini empire factions as buffers and was not dependent on settlements close to the north.

In my first campaign, they'd be stacks huddled together providing mutual reinforcements which made things worse. The Lightning Strike skill seems to counter this. It seems like proper army composition and deployment is absolutely vital which means that many provinces need to be planned out in advance.

killanena wrote: »

What I didn't think of actually is the addition of all the dlc's races that are treats too. Id imaging the empire campaign is much more difficult now with the addition of beast men, crooked moon and norsca if playing the base game. The faction they had to give the AI a whole starting province just to give it a chance.

Im not the biggest fan of the empire as a faction (Love their lore) so I haven't actually played a full campaign as them sense my very first one.

I might start one with them on mortal empires as talking about TW is giving me an itch to play it now :P

Were these not already in the game though? I thought they were just locked from the player unless they bought the DLC.

eeguy wrote: »

If you have the time, I'd watch some Heir of Carthage videos on Youtube and see what he brings against them.

The Empire is a jack of all trades army. I didn't use any magic the first time I played and I was surprised how much it can swing a battle if used right.

Thanks! Checking them out now. Really want to try the Steam Tank. It's why I chose the Empire to begin with.

By the way, how is the sequel?

Varik

Balthasar Gelt is a good general vs high armour enemies. His plague of rust is great.

Shiminay

You *HAVE* to stop Auto-Resolving, it'll fup you over every time.

killanena

ancapailldorcha wrote:

Were these not already in the game though? I thought they were just locked from the player unless they bought the DLC.

They didn't exist at the release of the first game. When they were released a patch put them in the campaign for all to play against. Buying the dlc made them playable in single and multiplayer.

Christy42

killanena wrote: »

What I didn't think of actually is the addition of all the dlc's races that are treats too. Id imaging the empire campaign is much more difficult now with the addition of beast men, crooked moon and norsca if playing the base game. The faction they had to give the AI a whole starting province just to give it a chance.

Im not the biggest fan of the empire as a faction (Love their lore) so I haven't actually played a full campaign as them sense my very first one.

I might start one with them on mortal empires as talking about TW is giving me an itch to play it now :P

I came late tot the party so so always had them. I found that they were a problem at different times to chaos. Goblins early on and Norse later. Also the seemingly slightly evil dwarves were annoying as all hell. At least in my campaign.

I expanded towards Nuln and Marienburg first though. Aside from Chaos and that subsect of dwarves what were big issues in the base game for Empire? Maybe they altered those a bit.

Vamps were grand. They ignored me for other empire factions most of the time. I only engaged them to get good relations with their very many enemies. None of the minor empire factions were an issue though it took a while for them to surrender they mostly kept to themselves. Bretonnia was always insanely eager to be on good terms without me doing much.

killanena

Tbh not much back then, Vampires could field multiple stacks but were easy enough to take care of in played battles. If you expanded north you'd have to deal with endless hordes of the old norcan factions which usually consisted of 6-8 great axe men, 4-6 wardogs and 8-10 jav cav which was just annoying more then anything else.

All campaigns at release were pretty easy but I remember a lot of new people to the total war series had issues playing greenskins as dwarfs can be tricky to deal with early in the game.

ancapailldorcha

Managed to actually beat Chaos in the field tonight. I've modified my army composition to include more Hangunnders and Halberd-equipped Demigryph Knights while making sure I had reinforcements and Lightning Strike but it's still tough! I also finally got to play with a Steam Tank. It was fun.

eeguy

Steam tanks are great. A dozen tanks and half a dozen mortars are even better.

ancapailldorcha

eeguy wrote: »

Steam tanks are great. A dozen tanks and half a dozen mortars are even better.

I love Steam Tanks but I've waves of Chaos, Beastmen, Wintertooth, Norsca and the Greenskins to deal with so I can only afford one or two at the moment. I friggin' love 'em though. I can almost leave them alone in melee which is a godsend when trying to control a large army at 0.5 speed.

eeguy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I love Steam Tanks but I've waves of Chaos, Beastmen, Wintertooth, Norsca and the Greenskins to deal with so I can only afford one or two at the moment. I friggin' love 'em though. I can almost leave them alone in melee which is a godsend when trying to control a large army at 0.5 speed.

There's a method to making money to support your army. Most settlements have 3 building slots.
Every settlement should get walls and an income building. The remaining slot should be growth or happiness building.
Don't bother with military buildings for most provinces, just focus on one or two to provide your armies and upgrade the buildings as much as possible, that way you can get access to high tier units early.

When it comes to character upgrades I focus on the red ones first. boosting your entire armys attack is better than boosting one characters attack.

ancapailldorcha

By the way, it's part of the most recent Humble Bundle if anyone's interested:

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/strategy-bundle?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_2_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1

ancapailldorcha

Managed to eliminate the Warriors of Chaos last night. I'd to use 2 whole stacks plus a whole garrison from and upgraded settlement to make 3 in total. My Steam Tank didn't make it alas. I did managed to get Archaon at the end though it took 2 Greatswords, 2 Swordsmen, 2 Halberdiers, Hangunners, along with a heavily wounded Karl Franz and a Bright Wizard providing buffs for him alone. Ended up killing what turned out to be the last stack when he was injured.

If anyone fancies the 66% off voucher I got yesterday, let me know. Don't know if it is transferable.

Remouad

Been holding off starting a new campaign until the update drops.

Going for a Dwarf Mortal empires campaign.

Started my last campaigns before the tomb kings dropped so looking forward to going up against them as well as seeing what the forge is all about.

Is there a comprehensive map of all the Legendary Lord starting locations?

Dwarf campaign was the first I played and it was pretty much all against the orks with a smattering of vampire counts.
Would like to go up against some more varied opposition.

Dave_The_Sheep

Remouad wrote: »

Started my last campaigns before the tomb kings dropped so looking forward to going up against them as well as seeing what the forge is all about.

Have you say I found the Tomb Kings campaign (both ME and Vortex) to be the most fun. The difference in how they have their armies set up financially, and how they are allowed to research / create items / have a cap on units is just unique and really fun. CA nailed them fun wise.

I'm hoping there's some similar type unique changes to the Empire, Dwarves, etc basically the Old World Races, because they feel a little less interesting as times goes on.

I still find a solid line of Dwarves backed up with quarrelers / handgunners / artillery really satisfying, mind you.

Remouad

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm hoping there's some similar type unique changes to the Empire, Dwarves, etc basically the Old World Races, because they feel a little less interesting as times goes on.

That's what the Forge is all about.
inspired by the tomb kings.
Should give it a bit of a game play refresh.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I still find a solid line of Dwarves backed up with quarrelers / handgunners / artillery really satisfying, mind you.

Always enjoy an nice bit of turtling

Remouad

Actually noticed a very nice change coming with this update

Legendary Lords will now be recruitable when you confederate with that faction when the Lord is in a wounded state.

Shiminay

Decided to give the new Dark Elf character a go and then realised that I've never played with the Dark Elves at all. So far so good, bashing my way through some troublesome neighbours whilst sending raids off to the High Elves

Shiminay

Bleurgh. I just got melted by a cheesy Norscan army with 2 War Mammoths and 6 Feral Mammoths as well as 2 characters on chariots. It's the first time I've been so soundly routed this campaign, shoulda gone home to upgrade that army sooner. Now he's followed me into a second battle, so I'm probably about to lose the entire stack Tome for some Dragons and Hydras.

Edit:
Yep, totally savaged...

Shiminay

Revenge!



Chased him down and wiped out the army, so I should be wiping the Norscans out very soon...

eeguy

I'm fairly late in the game with Empire.
Sent two stacks of greatswords, gunners and tanks to beat pesky orks and they got creamed by 3 full stacks.

Black orks are beasts.

Pugzilla

Are people still playing the vanilla WH1 campaign or is it all Mortal Empires now?

Dave_The_Sheep

Pugzilla wrote: »

Are people still playing the vanilla WH1 campaign or is it all Mortal Empires now?

I'm not even sure I have WH1 installed on my machine any more to be honest.

ME all the way - though I will admit I'm finding it almost a little too large. By the time you've taken over ever a quarter of the map, you're snowballing.

ancapailldorcha

Pugzilla wrote: »

Are people still playing the vanilla WH1 campaign or is it all Mortal Empires now?

I am. Don't own Warhammer 2 yet. It's £22 but I want the DLC as well.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm not even sure I have WH1 installed on my machine any more to be honest.

ME all the way - though I will admit I'm finding it almost a little too large. By the time you've taken over ever a quarter of the map, you're snowballing.

I thought Mortal Empires required both games to be installed. How is it? Is it amazing?

Dave_The_Sheep

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I thought Mortal Empires required both games to be installed. How is it? Is it amazing?

No, but you have to own both games for certain features.

Honestly, it's up there in the top TW games. My favourite was Medieval 2. Next up is either Warhammer or Napoleon (purely for the setting, which I love).

The three games (one more to come) and how they fit / grow together is an great achievement to be honest.

ancapailldorcha

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

No, but you have to own both games for certain features.

Honestly, it's up there in the top TW games. My favourite was Medieval 2. Next up is either Warhammer or Napoleon (purely for the setting, which I love).

The three games (one more to come) and how they fit / grow together is an great achievement to be honest.

Napoleon is the only one I haven't played. Tempted to start a new Dwarf campaign for W1. Finished my Empire campaign but I don't know if I want to keep going as I've beaten Chaos so my diplomatic alliances are starting to crumble.

Remouad

Started my mortal empires campaign with as Clan Angrund.
That 50% income penalty is a bitch!
Playing on hard.
Conquered the starting province and built up a full stack pretty quick so decided to nip over to karak eight peaks thinking that surely I'd be able to beat whatever was there with my mighty army.
Was surrounded by 3 full stacks and had another stack garrisoned!!
Tempted to just let skarsnik have it...

killanena

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Napoleon is the only one I haven't played. Tempted to start a new Dwarf campaign for W1. Finished my Empire campaign but I don't know if I want to keep going as I've beaten Chaos so my diplomatic alliances are starting to crumble.

Napoleon is more for multiplayer in my opinion, and there is a ton of great mods! but the single player campaign and mini campaigns leave a lot to be desired. Empire is better for single player.

Pugzilla

Play Western Roman Empire in Atilla on legendary difficult. Absolute battle for survival every turn.

ancapailldorcha

killanena wrote: »

Napoleon is more for multiplayer in my opinion, and there is a ton of great mods! but the single player campaign and mini campaigns leave a lot to be desired. Empire is better for single player.

That's a shame. I was considering installing DarthMod for Empire as it happens.

Pugzilla wrote: »

Play Western Roman Empire in Atilla on legendary difficult. Absolute battle for survival every turn.

I don't know what's wrong with Attila but it runs like crap on my machine.

killanena

Don't get me wrong, Napoleon is brilliant but I've had the most fun playing massive multiplayer battles with the darthmod. I've had battles that have lasted hours but felt very realistic. There is also an American civil war mod (can't remember it's name right now!) That I also had a lot of fun with

Dave_The_Sheep

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's a shame. I was considering installing DarthMod for Empire as it happens.

Napoleon's campaign is grand, I have no problems with it. Empire is larger in scope, that's true, but Napoleon has better unit diversity, looks better, etc. As killanena said, Darthmod for Napoleon turns the battles into massive sprawling fights, really really good - multi and single player.

Remouad

Pugzilla wrote: »

Are people still playing the vanilla WH1 campaign or is it all Mortal Empires now?

This post made me go back and see where I was in WH1.
Turns out I had just finished a long victory empire campaign and I've had a great time over the last few evenings wiping out everyone else

Major thing I noticed was the End turn & Battle Load times are way faster than either the Mortal Empires or Vortex campaign.

killanena

I hate the end turn times in mortal empires. Nearly ruins the experience for me at the start of a new campaign at least even with the game installed on an SSD. But I guess its just more incentive to start wiping factions out even faster :P

Tony EH

So, I've had this thing on my HDD for a year and just gave up every time I tired to play it. A warhammer game never felt like Total War to me and it was a bit of a shame they went with it TBH. I much prefer their "historical" takes, even if there isn't much history actually involved, once the campaign gets going. But, I'd like to see them tackle the American Civil War some time. Surprised they haven't done that yet. It seems well suited to their engines.

In any case, I gave it one more go, this time playing as the Empire. Previously I used to try out the Orcs, Goblins and whatnot and ended up just being confused as to what the hell I was supposed to be doing - not being a Warhammer fan. But, it seems me and Karl Franz get on quite well :pac:, cos I'm having a grand time with the Empire. I'm still not happy with CA's "new" game engine direction though. I much preferred how things worked with the likes of Medieval II.

However, is it me, or are the Empire's cavalry units a bit overpowered? For the laugh, I decided to mash an army together of great 10 swordsmen and 10 Reichsguardmen (or whatever they're called) and so far the cavalry are dominating everything they come against on the battlefield. The heavy cav are awesome, in the true meaning of the word. Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, Spiders, whatever you care to mention chicken out and are run down in their droves. It's gas.

The only complaint I have about the horse units is that they are pretty slow in their movement. Too many times a fleeing enemy has managed to get to the "retreat border".

Pugzilla

I think adopting the Warhammer universe was a great idea that revitalised the series. Never had this level of faction diversity. Gave the devs a lot of freedom to mix up the gameplay mechanics.

Remouad

Tony EH wrote: »

But, I'd like to see them tackle the American Civil War some time. Surprised they haven't done that yet. It seems well suited to their engines.

Only problem with this is that it's limited to 2 factions.
Once they figure a way around that i guarantee this will be one of the saga games.

Shiminay

On the opposite side of the same coin Tony, I'd never have played a Total War game if they didn't take on Warhammer The Empire's cavalry is supposed to be very dominant as per the universe's lore, Chaos Knights, Dwarf Longbeards, Black Orcs etc are all similar. Wait till you get a Steam Tank or two...

That reminds me, I have a Dark Elves game to get back to

Tony EH

Remouad wrote: »

Only problem with this is that it's limited to 2 factions.
Once they figure a way around that i guarantee this will be one of the saga games.

Perhaps. But that wouldn't bother me TBH. Most of the time, I'm concentrating on beating the crap out of a single faction anyway.

The way around that "problem" though is to make the victory conditions tougher, make diplomacy a matter of area and not faction and flesh out the campaign gameplay a bit better. I feel that over the years TW has become too simplified.

Although, I certainly understand the point.

Tony EH

Shiminay wrote: »

On the opposite side of the same coin Tony, I'd never have played a Total War game if they didn't take on Warhammer The Empire's cavalry is supposed to be very dominant as per the universe's lore, Chaos Knights, Dwarf Longbeards, Black Orcs etc are all similar. Wait till you get a Steam Tank or two...

That reminds me, I have a Dark Elves game to get back to

Sure. But then you could say that you were already a shoe in Shim re: Warhammer.


I know nothing about the lore, so compared to the rest of the Total War games, I'm pretty much in the dark.

Varik

Empire 2


1850s and 1860s you've got the US civil war, Crimean war, British Indian wars, Italian independence, Opium wars, Maori in NZ, and a couple in South America between new nations and old empires. It's already covered in Fall of the samurai but you've the boshin war as well, but the thing about this time period is that as far as the game needs to be concerned the factions would be even enough.

Dave_The_Sheep

Remouad wrote: »

Only problem with this is that it's limited to 2 factions.
Once they figure a way around that i guarantee this will be one of the saga games.

Honestly, I think it's perfect for a once off Saga type game. They will have to introduce more in terms of unit difference somehow - I mean it's basically Infantry (Line infantry, skirmishers, grenadiers, militia), Cavalry (not a whole lot of difference in the two sides or even on one side) and a few types of Artillery. IF they can introduce some sort of unit differences based on level and recruitment location and make it feel distinct, it could be great. It might also have to be a more guided campaign as opposed to sandbox which is what TW is all about. I'm ok with that experiment though.

Remouad

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

It might also have to be a more guided campaign as opposed to sandbox which is what TW is all about. I'm ok with that experiment though.

That's a good point. There were a couple of key battles in the war that they'll want to showcase.

Tony EH

So, it's half twelve at night and I've just finished tackling Chaos in my Dwarves campaign, which I've been playing since I got home (my Empire save got zapped somehow - very annoying). But, by christ, if that wasn't one of the most irritating things I've ever had to tackle in a Total War game. :mad:

By the time Chaos got to me, they had three full stack armies and my poor dwarves had a hell of a time trying to beat them, cos they're so bloody slow. You also can't run any fleer's down as you don't field cavalry and the helicoptor units are waaaay too inaccurate to sort them out. So, the Chaos armies escape with enough men to fight another day.

In an open battlefield, I wouldn't have stood a chance of beating them. But, the Chaos armies channelled themselves into the pass between Mount Gunbad and Mount Squighorn and I managed to atritt them piece by piece.

And as soon as they were done, the bloody Orcs declared war. Cheers guys. :rolleyes:

I know I'm late to the party with this game and all, but seriously? The map now is a wasteland, with half the factions wiped out, except for the northern tribes of dickheads who sued for peace after Chaos was dealt with. ****. I had no choice but to agree, as my lads were in pretty bad shape.

Chaos is just an annoying game mechanic that interferes with the player's game. It's almost as bad as that realm divide crap in 'Shogun 2'.

In future campaigns, I'm just going to send two or three massive armies north and fuck them up as soon as they appear on turn 80 or whatever.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tony EH wrote: »

And as soon as they were done, the bloody Orcs declared war. Cheers guys. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Tony EH wrote: »

In future campaigns, I'm just going to send two or three massive armies north and fuck them up as soon as they appear on turn 80 or whatever.

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Tony EH

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Oh there was barney with the Greenskins, but I got rid of them before Chaos arrived. It was another Orc faction that decided to have a go, once Chaos was out of the way.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Warhammer 1. My power wasn't that great when Chaos started ripping up the place. I think I only had about three full provences. As of now, I own half the map, because Chaos did most of the work for me.

Also, I discovered that I didn't actually kill the main Chaos badguy. He's just dormant. Is this normal?

Cos if they're coming back, that sucks.

Christy42

Tony EH wrote: »

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Honestly, I have no idea how you managed to be at peace witht he Orcs, playing as the Dwarves.

Oh there was barney with the Greenskins, but I got rid of them before Chaos arrived. It was another Orc faction that decided to have a go, once Chaos was out of the way.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Chaos appear based on a few things, I think turn timer is in there but one of the things that can fast forward their arrival is the player power.

Are you playing Warhammer 1 or 2 TW?

Warhammer 1. My power wasn't that great when Chaos started ripping up the place. I think I only had about three full provences. As of now, I own half the map, because Chaos did most of the work for me.

Also, I discovered that I didn't actually kill the main Chaos badguy. He's just dormant. Is this normal?

Cos if they're coming back, that sucks.

Yup. They are never as strong though as that first surge. Else I was just stronger in each of my campaigns by that point. They need dealing with and are annoying but the later waves were never the same threat to my existence as the first.

Tony EH

That's a poor game mechanic.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

That's a poor game mechanic.

While I would agree, I think it is an attempt to fix a fundamental problem with the Total War formula. Once you hit a certain point, say 20-30 regions under your belt you're probably not going to lose the campaign and it becomes harder for one specific faction to mount any sort of real challenge against you.

The Chaos Invasion along with Realm Divide, Mongol/Timurid invasions and civil wars are attempts to remedy this and make for a more challenging end game. Personally, I think Chaos happens a little too soon but the Shield of Civilisation bonus to diplomacy is certainly nice and really makes it feel like you're uniting with the others to face a greater threat.