Warhammer: Total War

TWW3 announced.

Can pre-purchase on Steam, here are the details. Looks like Kislev and Cathay both going to be in it.

Far beyond the world and its petty wars there exists a dimension of pure, malevolent magic: The Realm of Chaos. It is a terrible place, incomprehensible to the mortal mind. It whispers promises of power, but to behold it is to be seduced by it. To relinquish your soul to it. To become it.

The four Ruinous Powers rule over this place, ever seeking to slip their bonds and engulf the world in a tide of daemonic corruption. Nurgle, the plague god; Slaanesh, the lord of excess; Tzeentch, the changer of ways; and Khorne, the god of blood and slaughter.

On the border between the worlds, two mighty kingdoms stand sentinel: the stern warriors of Kislev and the vast empire of Grand Cathay. But each is beset by its own trials, and now both have cause to cross the threshold and send their armies into the Realm of Chaos.

The world stands on a precipice. A single push will plunge it into cataclysm.

And there is one who schemes to achieve just that, an ancient figure who desires nothing less than to wield supreme power. But to succeed, he will need a champion…

The coming conflict will engulf all. Will you conquer your daemons? Or command them?

I know absolutely nothing about Warhammer beyond what I've picked up through TWW but Cathay is meant to be way over to the east right? Suggests a pretty big expansion of the map?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po

Some more detail.

Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch are each represented by a faction in Total War: Warhammer 3. They're then joined by Kislev and Cathay, for a total of six launch races and nine available legendary lords. An additional Race Pack is confirmed as a bonus for all who pre-order or purchase the game during its launch week, although more details about this faction are coming "in a few months."

And a big FAQ on Reddit.

Gunmonkey

The next race pack as a pre-order......could it be either ChDwarfs or Ogres? Or could the go all out and make Nagash's faction be its own thing? We got a tease when the Silver Pinnacle was added, so Neferata is a shoe in at some stage.....but could they make them unique from VampCounts/TombKangs?

Best not overthink this, too much info as is...

Gbear

Cathay has exploded my head.

I thought that maybe with borrowing some assets and design choices from Three Kingdoms, and the ever-important goal of sales in China that there was an outside chance of there being some DLC for Cathay at some stage, but being a starting faction is totally out of left field. They have absolutely no models in WH, there's no stories there, and barely any lore of any kind. It won't be fudging things like Norsca and Vampire Coast, but totally inventing them from whole cloth (presumably in tandem with Games Workshop).

It's fascinating to see what this is going to mean for the maps, because it basically means there's going to be a whole world map. Will they shrink the scale, or have they managed to make their maps even bigger but still playable?

ancapailldorcha

Mortal Empire still has a lot cut out of it. No idea how they'll fit even a fraction of another map onto it but this was always the plan so I don't know.

The Cathay inclusion makes sense for the reasons given. I wouldn't have given them that much importance otherwise.

Looking good, all in all. I'll be eager for some gameplay.

Gbear

Alina Nutritious Coyote wrote: »

Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch are each represented by a faction in Total War: Warhammer 3. They're then joined by Kislev and Cathay, for a total of six launch races and nine available legendary lords. An additional Race Pack is confirmed as a bonus for all who pre-order or purchase the game during its launch week, although more details about this faction are coming "in a few months."

I wonder what that means for Archaon, Kholek and the Chaos Warriors Faction.

Presumably they've gotten the boot then.

So I reckon that means there'll be two for each of Cathay and Kislev (it'd track with what we've seen for all(?) other starting races), a single Daemon Lord (I assume, because they've teased them all in the trailer) for each god, and maybe Belakor as a Undivided Daemons faction.

Maybe you have the Chaos DLC you'll get them as well? Which is why they wouldn't count them in the starting Lords. We'll have to see. It seems daft not to use them when they already have them there.

Varik

Cathay completely opens the flood gates for a load of potential DLC factions later on.

Hobgoblins and chaos dwarves being the most likely, and then Orges and the various human tribes of the steppes and chaos wastes after that. Nippon ever being included was as unlikely as Cathay but here we are.

Map wise they could have a north pole centred map, the chaos wastes surrounded by everyone else.

Gbear

Varik wrote: »

Map wise they could have a north pole centred map, the chaos wastes surrounded by everyone else.

Great shout that. Never even considered it.

blackwave

Varik wrote: »

Cathay completely opens the flood gates for a load of potential DLC factions later on.

Hobgoblins and chaos dwarves being the most likely, and then Orges and the various human tribes of the steppes and chaos wastes after that. Nippon ever being included was as unlikely as Cathay but here we are.

Map wise they could have a north pole centred map, the chaos wastes surrounded by everyone else.

Actually expected the chaos dwarfs and ogres to be a playable faction early in the TW3 lifecycle and thought Cathay would be one of the last ones if at all as on tabletop Cathay is not even a faction while the other two are/were. Probably looking to tap into the Chinese market as much as possible is what gave Cathay a nudge to been included. Really looking forward to what CA can do with Cathay as they have a blank canvas to a point.

Varik

The map they show in the trailer isn't orientated north at the top, they've the wall vertical on the map rather than east to west along Cathay's northern border. So that shows Cathay vaguely as it's shown above.

Cathay will obviously get more than this map shows and then it'll depend on if they want Naggaroth in the campaign or not. Might be some version of the bottom right of the above map.

Trailer map

Remouad

The Pre-Order bonus is going to be a race pack again this time so I'm betting on that being Chaos Dwarfs.

Something I just noticed was that it's going to be released on Epic as well as steam. Wonder what that means for mortal empires.

EDIT: Found the answers here
https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/pre-order-bonus

Basically if you already own 1 and/or 2 don't bother with the EPIC game store as nothing carries over.
There is cross store multiplayer and 1 & 2 are also being released on EPIC.

ancapailldorcha

An argument that the Chaos Dwarves could be added to Total War: Warhammer 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGIHvLg0Bek

The thesis is that adding content for use now would incentivise pre-orders for WH3 as opposed to cutting content from the game at release as in WH1.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

An argument that the Chaos Dwarves could be added to Total War: Warhammer 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGIHvLg0Bek

The thesis is that adding content for use now would incentivise pre-orders for WH3 as opposed to cutting content from the game at release as in WH1.

Hope it turns out true, would be great to get a new race in to TWW2.

ancapailldorcha

I started a Malekith ME campaign to see how the new Chaos invasion looks on its legendary setting and I think this is the most fun I've had with the game. The Dark Elves are just so much fun. I was able to confederate Hellebron, Malus and Morathi relatively easily while Lokhir succumbed to his enemies in Lustria.

Shades are just so enjoyable when you deploy them en masse. Ditto for Black Arks which can just sail around hunting for treasure. I've specced Naggarond and Karond Kar for slaves and the income from them is insane. Mortahi might be one of my favourite legendary lords. At first glance, she doesn't look impressive but the amount of damage she can do by herself from the air can be catastrophic to enemy armies before they even organise themselves.

Haven't really recruited many monsters yet. I do like the Hydras though. First chaos invasion has just started north of Hell Pit. They have 12 stacks so that difficulty setting is making a difference.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I started a Malekith ME campaign to see how the new Chaos invasion looks on its legendary setting and I think this is the most fun I've had with the game. The Dark Elves are just so much fun. I was able to confederate Hellebron, Malus and Morathi relatively easily while Lokhir succumbed to his enemies in Lustria.

Shades are just so enjoyable when you deploy them en masse. Ditto for Black Arks which can just sail around hunting for treasure. I've specced Naggarond and Karond Kar for slaves and the income from them is insane. Mortahi might be one of my favourite legendary lords. At first glance, she doesn't look impressive but the amount of damage she can do by herself from the air can be catastrophic to enemy armies before they even organise themselves.

Haven't really recruited many monsters yet. I do like the Hydras though. First chaos invasion has just started north of Hell Pit. They have 12 stacks so that difficulty setting is making a difference.

Saw on twitter recently someone tested out all regions with maxed slaves and Yvresse was the most profitable by a huge distance, if you happen to have taken over Ulthuan yet.

Edit - here: https://twitter.com/K4lul0su/status/1355212114651209731/photo/1

ancapailldorcha

Alina Nutritious Coyote wrote: »

Saw on twitter recently someone tested out all regions with maxed slaves and Yvresse was the most profitable by a huge distance, if you happen to have taken over Ulthuan yet.

Edit - here: https://twitter.com/K4lul0su/status/1355212114651209731/photo/1

Thanks for that. I've moved to Karond Kar as it has a special slave building but I'll see if I can grab Yvresse at some point.

Gbear

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Thanks for that. I've moved to Karond Kar as it has a special slave building but I'll see if I can grab Yvresse at some point.

I suspect Titan Peaks or Hag Graef are probaly the best in Naggarond. The Vaults in Ancient City of Quintex do 1200 + 60% bonus to all income, and each of the settlements has a resource. Hag Graef has that Mine in it, as well as a port.

I do wonder, if you have a settle anywhere mod (so maluses due to inhospitable terrain are disabled), would the best be Marienburg. Its port is the single most valuable building in the game (2k gold).

ancapailldorcha

Gbear wrote: »

I suspect Titan Peaks or Hag Graef are probaly the best in Naggarond. The Vaults in Ancient City of Quintex do 1200 + 60% bonus to all income, and each of the settlements has a resource. Hag Graef has that Mine in it, as well as a port.

I do wonder, if you have a settle anywhere mod (so maluses due to inhospitable terrain are disabled), would the best be Marienburg. Its port is the single most valuable building in the game (2k gold).

I thought the Ancient City of Quintex had the most valuable building in the game. I'll have to check that but I don't like mods for the most part.

Gbear

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I thought the Ancient City of Quintex had the most valuable building in the game. I'll have to check that but I don't like mods for the most part.

It probably is actually, at least when you take its effects into account above the base gold.

ancapailldorcha

Gbear wrote: »

It probably is actually, at least when you take its effects into account above the base gold.

Never occurred to me to use it for slaves. Did a google and looks like Quintex and Har Ganeth are the winners.

I still remember WH1 when Marienberg's port was insane as the Empire. It was basically my money pit.

Potatoeman

Legendoftotalwar done a video on this, the slave market is broken and can be gamed but the chaos invasion is in a terrible place for the dark elves. I tried them first but the lack of global recruitment was such a pain and I was using my black arch’s for treasure hunting.

ancapailldorcha

Potatoeman wrote: »

Legendoftotalwar done a video on this, the slave market is broken and can be gamed but the chaos invasion is in a terrible place for the dark elves. I tried them first but the lack of global recruitment was such a pain and I was using my black arch’s for treasure hunting.

Is it one of his campaigns or a dedicated video?

I've only half-cocked it by building the slave market/pens in Naggarond and another in Karond Kar. I've not min-maxed at all and I've never had to worry about money. It's an absurdly fun mechanic.

Potatoeman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is it one of his campaigns or a dedicated video?

I've only half-cocked it by building the slave market/pens in Naggarond and another in Karond Kar. I've not min-maxed at all and I've never had to worry about money. It's an absurdly fun mechanic.

Two separate videos, one on the slave market as you need to set where they go before you catch them, you set the number to go to each manually as they go to cities that don’t need them in automatically.

The chaos invasion was a separate video, you might want to set this setting lower due to where they spawn.

ancapailldorcha

Potatoeman wrote: »

Two separate videos, one on the slave market as you need to set where they go before you catch them, you set the number to go to each manually as they go to cities that don’t need them in automatically.

The chaos invasion was a separate video, you might want to set this setting lower due to where they spawn.

Too late as I've already hit the first chaos invasion.

I've tried finding his videos on the Dark Elf economy but no joy. He did one recently on the Chaos invasion difficulty setting CA just added.

Potatoeman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Too late as I've already hit the first chaos invasion.

I've tried finding his videos on the Dark Elf economy but no joy. He did one recently on the Chaos invasion difficulty setting CA just added.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2dv26qDeU
Try this one, different guy.

ancapailldorcha

Potatoeman wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2dv26qDeU
Try this one, different guy.

I was going to ask if you meant someone else. Thanks for that. He has a new one out about a money exploit when playing as Yvresse. Well worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4nEuhymZqo

There's a new (I think) guy on YouTube called MercyTheMad who has made some interesting videos recently, LoTW got the infinite money thing from him. Had another video recently showing how to get Isabella to lv40 by turn 7.

Potatoeman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I was going to ask if you meant someone else. Thanks for that. He has a new one out about a money exploit when playing as Yvresse. Well worth watching.

It is a flaw of the game, they don’t highlight the different faction mechanics very well. The slave market is mentioned at the start but not explained very well.

ancapailldorcha

Looks like the Dark Elves are getting a new, free legendary lord in the form of Rakarth the Beastlord on the 18th March.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAvCrfnlAvg

ancapailldorcha

Voiced by Iwan Rheon who played Ramsay Bolton on Game of Thrones. An interesting choice.

Varik

He's got his hounds and the like.

site to unlock it on 18th

https://dashboard.totalwar.com/home

Iguarantee

Really enjoying the (Grombrindal) Dwarves campaign at the moment.

Good starting position and unit mix.

ancapailldorcha

There are a few livestreams showing off Rakarth. Interesting new lord. I'm off this for lent but I might give him a go once that's done. Don't think there's any word on the DLC so far.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There are a few livestreams showing off Rakarth. Interesting new lord. I'm off this for lent but I might give him a go once that's done. Don't think there's any word on the DLC so far.

I have LegendOfTotalWar on in the background at the moment. The starting position seems interesting. The lord himself doesn't seem to be that strong which is fine I guess. Loads of other stuff has changed in the patch as well for Dark Elves, Skaven, Wood Elves.

Gbear

Iguarantee wrote: »

Really enjoying the (Grombrindal) Dwarves campaign at the moment.

Good starting position and unit mix.

Starting off with the flamethrower infantry is a gamechanger. They're so ludicrously satisfying to use. Just wait for enemy infantry to hit your front line, move around the side and totally incinerate a unit in 1 shot.

The patch notes are up.

A suprising amount of cool changes to Dark Elves.

Hellebron and Lokir Fellheart are getting some much needed love so they're not being left behind by Rakarth.

Poor Malus still needs some tweaking to his mechanics, but still, 5/6 good LLs is a pretty good spot to be in now.

I really love how far along the mechanics have come. You feel you get your money's worth and you're not getting fleeced with each DLC.

Iguarantee

Gbear wrote: »

Starting off with the flamethrower infantry is a gamechanger. They're so ludicrously satisfying to use. Just wait for enemy infantry to hit your front line, move around the side and totally incinerate a unit in 1 shot.

The patch notes are up.

A suprising amount of cool changes to Dark Elves.

Hellebron and Lokir Fellheart are getting some much needed love so they're not being left behind by Rakarth.

Poor Malus still needs some tweaking to his mechanics, but still, 5/6 good LLs is a pretty good spot to be in now.

I really love how far along the mechanics have come. You feel you get your money's worth and you're not getting fleeced with each DLC.

If you’re interested, the Grimhammer mod made some great and much needed changes to the mechanics.

Gbear

Iguarantee wrote: »

If you’re interested, the Grimhammer mod made some great and much needed changes to the mechanics.

In some respects I think they've changed too much. Some races benefit more than others. I think Skaven High Elves, Dark Elves, Empire and now, after recent patches, Greenskins and Wood Elves, are all in a good spot in Vanilla, but SFO is the only way that Beastmen or Chaos are playable at all. I'm playing an Archaon SFO game at the moment.

Hopefully we'll see a horde update with what is presumably going to be a Beastmen DLC, that helps all horde factions, and a bit of tinkering with the Dwarves, because they're functional but boring in Vanilla and SFO.

Iguarantee

Gbear wrote: »

In some respects I think they've changed too much. Some races benefit more than others. I think Skaven High Elves, Dark Elves, Empire and now, after recent patches, Greenskins and Wood Elves, are all in a good spot in Vanilla, but SFO is the only way that Beastmen or Chaos are playable at all. I'm playing an Archaon SFO game at the moment.

Hopefully we'll see a horde update with what is presumably going to be a Beastmen DLC, that helps all horde factions, and a bit of tinkering with the Dwarves, because they're functional but boring in Vanilla and SFO.

SFO?

ancapailldorcha

Iguarantee wrote: »

SFO?

Steel Faith Overhaul. Very popular mod that alters many mechanics of the game. Should be prominent in the Steam Workshop if you want to try it.

Gbear

Grimhammer = SFO

SFO is the mod team.

Iguarantee

Gbear wrote: »

Grimhammer = SFO

SFO is the mod team.

Cheers lads.

Purchased the latest DLC (wood elves & skaven). The wood elf campaign is fun, lots of arrows. They're quite poor against regular armoured infantry early game though. Need more treemen.

Rome: Total War Remastered is coming out next month, bit out of the blue. Graphically it's still of its time, seems they've added a good bit of QoL stuff (like modern camera controls etc), don't think I'll get it but put some amount of hours into it back in the day. Initially released over 16 years ago :eek:

Tony EH

^
What's the point?

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

^
What's the point?

It's Rome but shiny. What's not to like?

Tony EH

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's Rome but shiny. What's not to like?

I just don't see the point when Rome II is already here and is a better game. Don't get me wrong, I loved Rome and played it well, well, passed its "use by" date and the mods for it were great. But Rome II, in the state it's in now and with the Divide et Impera mod, far surpasses it.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

I just don't see the point when Rome II is already here and is a better game. Don't get me wrong, I loved Rome and played it well, well, passed its "use by" date and the mods for it were great. But Rome II, in the state it's in now and with the Divide et Impera mod, far surpasses it.

I found Rome II to be boring. Like, incredibly tedious and dumbed down. The civil war mechanic adds nothing, the city management has been stripped to the point where the player is barely involved and the combat lacks the weight and crunch of the original. It barely has a soundtrack on top of everything else.

If you like it, fair enough but I had a lot more fun with the original Rome. It's aged horribly but we don't have that problem any more now that the remaster is here and according to the few Youtube videos I've seen, it looks great.

Tony EH

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I found Rome II to be boring. Like, incredibly tedious and dumbed down. The civil war mechanic adds nothing, the city management has been stripped to the point where the player is barely involved and the combat lacks the weight and crunch of the original. It barely has a soundtrack on top of everything else.

If you like it, fair enough but I had a lot more fun with the original Rome. It's aged horribly but we don't have that problem any more now that the remaster is here and according to the few Youtube videos I've seen, it looks great.

Out of the box Rome II wasn't great. But with mods it was a different game. I cannot imagine even bothering with it in its release state.

But the original Rome was just far too easy. The cavalry alone could wipe out any resistance.

The problem with both games, and TW in general, is that once the player gets to a certain level they can just romp around the map with impunity. So things like realm divide, civil war and Chaos get written into the game. It's a cheap alternative for the devs, but always one that pisses off the players.

If they're doing a complete overhaul of Rome, I might be interested. But if it's just "shiny" Rome. Then I'll not bother.


Plus, they're looking for $30 for it.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

Out of the box Rome II wasn't great. But with mods it was a different game. I cannot imagine even bothering with it in its release state.

But the original Rome was just far too easy. The cavalry alone could wipe out any resistance.

The problem with both games, and TW in general, is that once the player gets to a certain level they can just romp around the map with impunity. So things like realm divide, civil war and Chaos get written into the game. It's a cheap alternative for the devs, but always one that pisses off the players.

If they're doing a complete overhaul of Rome, I might be interested. But if it's just "shiny" Rome. Then I'll not bother.


Plus, they're looking for $30 for it.

If you already own Rome: Total War then it's half price. Here, in the UK it's £12.50.

The civil war was just boring, as was the political system. Realm divide made sense given Shogun 2's focus on Japan. Chaos makes sense within Warhammer lore but Rome II's political system just boiled down to bribing opposition parties not to revolt and then leaving one province in the hands of secessionists to prevent future civil wars. As I said, boring.

All strategy games suffer from snowballing. The only one I've seen deal with it well was Crusader Kings 2. There's not really much that can be done about it IMO. I don't really like adding mods to games so I've only played Rome II vanilla. It's ok but only ok.

Tony EH

Realm divide was silly. Chaos was annoying as fuck. Civil war in Rome, while also annoying (and eventually) boring made sense given the history. Either way none of those "solutions" to late game TW issues are satisfactory. As for diplomacy, I have never played a TW where I thought that it was good. So, for me, they are all just variations of bad. At least in Rome II, you could build meaningful alliances though. The worst thing about both Rome's is that you were always required to suck up to other nations to keep them on side, as it were. It was just a ticking clock before they ended up hating you for no reason.

I've never played Crusader Kings. Might give that a go. But I have Attila there and I've never fired it up and I still have a Britannia campaign that I've yet to finish from 2 years ago. LOL

I own the disks of Rome 1, which I bought before Steam was even a thing, so I suppose that doesn't count?