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Enlgish soldiers Irish women 1916-1918

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  • 15-01-2015 8:32am
    #1
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭


    I am aware Irish women had relations with the English soldiers during this period but does anyone know were there meeting places in Dublin e.g Dance halls or Public houses for them to meet. There seems to be very little written on this subject. Any information greatly appreciated.


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    #2
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Where does any soldier meet a female? And if that failed there always was the Monto.


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    #3
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Where does any soldier meet a female? And if that failed there always was the Monto.

    Ha, where else. I was wondering did anyone know any public places e.g dances or social gatherings. A great aunt of mine had said girls in Dublin met English soldiers it would have been 1917- 1918. I was reading some of her letters recently and I was wondering if anyone knew where in Dublin.


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    #4
    Theanswers
    Registered Users Posts: 697 ✭✭✭Theanswers


    At the time I suppose the majority would have been Irish Lads whom were just working in the Army.

    Therefore, I could be wrong, however the majority would have been Irish.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong?


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    #5
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Theanswers wrote: »
    At the time I suppose the majority would have been Irish Lads whom were just working in the Army.

    Therefore, I could be wrong, however the majority would have been Irish.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong?
    I think you may be wrong. Lots of Irish men served in the British forces, but the policy was always that the Dublin garrison should be largely English or Scottish, lest there be any doubts about the loyalty or reliablity of Irish soldiers in the event of, um, political unrest. So Irish lads joining the army were sent to India (or, in 1916-18, to France) while English and Scottish lads were "imported" to garrison Dublin.

    The garrison, or at least the enlisted men, were definitely seen in Dulblin as being at the lower end of the social scale, which tended to limit their pulling-power, so to speak. There were plenty of pubs and brothels which catered to the garrison, but (most) women didn't go into pubs, or weren't welcome there, and of course the chances of starting a successful romantic relationship in a brothel were never very high. So dance halls, concerts or similar public entertainments, or simply being out walking, were the most likely spots for eyes to lock and hearts to beat faster.


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    #6
    belacqua_
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭belacqua_


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I think you may be wrong. Lots of Irish men served in the British forces, but the policy was always that the Dublin garrison should be largely English or Scottish, lest there be any doubts about the loyalty or reliablity of Irish soldiers in the event of, um, political unrest. So Irish lads joining the army were sent to India (or, in 1916-18, to France) while English and Scottish lads were "imported" to garrison Dublin.

    The garrison, or at least the enlisted men, were definitely seen in Dulblin as being at the lower end of the social scale, which tended to limit their pulling-power, so to speak. There were plenty of pubs and brothels which catered to the garrison, but (most) women didn't go into pubs, or weren't welcome there, and of course the chances of starting a successful romantic relationship in a brothel were never very high. So dance halls, concerts or similar public entertainments, or simply being out walking, were the most likely spots for eyes to lock and hearts to beat faster.

    I'm not so sure their pulling power was that limited, Joyce's contemporary account seems to suggest that women were mad for the redcoats ... Much to the annoyance of the local civilians:

    "Answered anyhow. He slipped card and letter into his sidepocket, reviewing again the soldiers on parade. Where’s old Tweedy’s regiment? Castoff soldier. There: bearskin cap and hackle plume. No, he’s a grenadier. Pointed cuffs. There he is: royal Dublin fusiliers. Redcoats. Too showy. That must be why the women go after them. Uniform. Easier to enlist and drill. Maud Gonne’s letter about taking them off O’Connell street at night: disgrace to our Irish capital. Griffith’s paper is on the same tack now: an army rotten with venereal disease: overseas or halfseasover empire. Half baked they look: hypnotised like. Eyes front. Mark time. Table: able. Bed: ed. The King’s own. Never see him dressed up as a fireman or a bobby. A mason, yes."


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    #7
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    belacqua_ wrote: »
    I'm not so sure their pulling power was that limited, Joyce's contemporary account seems to suggest that women were mad for the redcoats ... Much to the annoyance of the local civilians:

    "Answered anyhow. He slipped card and letter into his sidepocket, reviewing again the soldiers on parade. Where’s old Tweedy’s regiment? Castoff soldier. There: bearskin cap and hackle plume. No, he’s a grenadier. Pointed cuffs. There he is: royal Dublin fusiliers. Redcoats. Too showy. That must be why the women go after them. Uniform. Easier to enlist and drill. Maud Gonne’s letter about taking them off O’Connell street at night: disgrace to our Irish capital. Griffith’s paper is on the same tack now: an army rotten with venereal disease: overseas or halfseasover empire. Half baked they look: hypnotised like. Eyes front. Mark time. Table: able. Bed: ed. The King’s own. Never see him dressed up as a fireman or a bobby. A mason, yes."

    But is your quote not from Circe / Nightown (i.e. Monto) and the Maud Gonne reference to 'them' relates to the prostitutes, rather than the soldiers?


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    #8
    belacqua_
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭belacqua_


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    But is your quote not from Circe / Nightown (i.e. Monto) and the Maud Gonne reference to 'them' relates to the prostitutes, rather than the soldiers?

    Bloom and Dedalus have a run in with soldiers in the Monto all right, but this is earlier when Bloom/'Henry Flower' was posting a letter to his bit on the side. He had earlier admired the mounted guards escorting the Lord Lieutenant.


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    #9
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I have heard an anecdote from my husband's mother's family that during the First World War a number of soldiers were stationed somewhere near Dun Laoghaire (could it possibly be "soldiers and sailors"? LOL)

    There were, then and for quite a while afterwards, many loyal Unionists among the ordinary Dublin population: and this family were so inclined, and the young ladies were allowed to "visit" the soldiers with home comforts, knitted socks, and cocoa no doubt. I am sure they were supervised, -- those particular girls, anyway - but it goes to show that access to soldiery wasn't difficult and I'm sure that some girls must have watched them starry-eyed, as they strode about in uniform, even in the street. And it's not so hard to strike up a conversation, LOL. Perhaps in the audience at a Music Hall?


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