The Expanse (Amazon) [** Spoilers **]

beauf

lordgoat wrote: »

She's not far off it!

I'm also not just talking about the last episode of this season, she's pretty much unwatchable all seasonal least on the last episode you can mute and know. you're missing absolutely nothing.



The pacing is way off the most recent seasons, too hurried. The last one especially, it's lost a lot of the depth that was created.

Dunno I like a faster pace. The new terra season was slow.

somuj

beauf wrote: »

Dunno I like a faster pace. The new terra season was slow.

My other half agrees.

She was like wake up and put on another episode. Groggy I said what did I miss? Everything she replies followed by so much happens in every episode.

pixelburp

Season 4 was kinda slow by design, insofar as that was the book's problem as well. It had to take a sharp turn towards the terrestrial to bring more focus onto the fate of the Protomolecule Builders. All the political scheming went into the background for the length of a book.

However ... where the TV season really dropped the ball - that left me kinda surprised 'cos it was so slapdash IMO - was that it chose not to follow the dramas and tensions within the village population ... while dropping an entire arc onboard the Company's ship in orbit. In fact, said ship saw the return of an old character in

Miller's old partner when he was alive / a cop

, who played his part in a violent schism between the scientists and security forces as they watched events unfold down the gravity well. Some of the villagers turned up on-screen, but their parts severely reduced and spent most time in awe of Holdon & Pals.

So there was lots going on in the pages, just for some reason the TV adaptation chose instead to doggedly follow the Rocinante crew, like it was THEIR story (which it kinda is I suppose). Yet in reality the book was more interested in those choosing to start a new life; in what it MEANT to make a life on New Terra, a perspective on this specific strange new world that was only one of thousands out there.

Blazer

sounds like the books are worth getting into?

breezy1985

Blazer wrote: »

sounds like the books are worth getting into?

Definitely worth it

somuj

breezy1985 wrote: »

Definitely worth it

Which book should I read to find out what happens next?

Being fooled before with 3 Harry Potter in a week.

hold my beer

It's a good while since I listened but I'm pretty sure the last book I listened to (which was to where this season ends) was Nemesis games. I'm going to start Babylon's ashes now.

Do yourself a favour though, and start from the beginning. The books are really good. Better than the TV show imo

fitz

hold my beer wrote: »

It's a good while since I listened but I'm pretty sure the last book I listened to (which was to where this season ends) was Nemesis games. I'm going to start Babylon's ashes now.

Do yourself a favour though, and start from the beginning. The books are really good. Better than the TV show imo

Definitely start from the beginning with the books. There are differences and details that aren't covered in the show, so it's not really like you can just dive into later books having watched the show and expect to understand all the threads. They're well worth it.

breezy1985

somuj wrote: »

Which book should I read to find out what happens next?

Being fooled before with 3 Harry Potter in a week.

You need to start at the beginning. The next season will be a mash up of a few books

hold my beer

breezy1985 wrote: »

You need to start at the beginning. The next season will be a mash up of a few books

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

breezy1985

hold my beer wrote: »

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

I'm hoping so but the story from the later books might get mashed in

GreeBo

hold my beer wrote: »

Is it not just Babylon's Ashes?

well they are only making 1 more season so it depends on if they want to wrap up the story or not...(though considering the books arent done yet that might be hard!)

CruelSummer

Have watched all of the Expanse as of last night. Absolutely super series where they stay closer to reality and what could theoretically happen in the future than some of their peers. Really hope someone buys this series after Season 6. Otherwise Amazon might deviate from the books and create their own 'ending'. Fair play to Amazon for picking this up in the first place to help it reach a wider audience. I think the departure of Alex at the end of series 5 is very obviously written into the episode but won't hinder the series long term. Mao's daughter can take on the role of pilot of the Rosiante for Series 6.

pixelburp

Finished the season today. Absolute stormer and that's speaking as someone who wasn't that sold on book 5 in the first place. It'd be nice to have had more perspectives of those Inaros claimed to represent, but ship sets are probably cheaper than ones on a station, and that's a quibble.

I hear people's complaints about the focus on Naomi but I enjoyed it. It was almost to the point of sadism, just how much through the ringer the season put her, but it wasn't unearned either. Anyone who

throws themselves into space without protection

can cry all they want

The revision of Alex's presence at the end felt a little rushed and odd in places, but at least they put it in somewhere where it fit, structurally. Those hard burns are dangerous, there was the proof. Ultimately it's no great loss, as Alex always had the less interesting arc, and was often just another body in the plan as the books went on.

Season 6 being the last still worries. There's just too much to cram into what still appears to be a final season; I hope this is just shadow play and we even just get a true, final 7th, compressing the last two books - which at least feels more organic

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

. It'd be nice to have had more perspectives of those Inaros claimed to represent,

Soyã when does anyone ever listen to the views or perspectives of the Belters kopeng

Tenger

pixelburp wrote: »

Finished the season today. Absolute stormer and that's speaking as someone who wasn't that sold on book 5 in the first place.

...........
Season 6 being the last still worries. There's just too much to cram into what still appears to be a final season; I hope this is just shadow play and we even just get a true, final 7th, compressing the last two books - which at least feels more organic

The authors have inferred that there will be some more content beyond Season 6.
But no any time soon

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

Soyã when does anyone ever listen to the views or perspectives of the Belters kopeng

Haha. That does also remind of one really nice touch; the interfaces on Drummer's ship were all in Belter patois.

One of the unheralded aspects throughout this show has been the production design: user interfaces often look and feel real, not just a flashy array of blinking lights or blather. Everything from PDAs to ship controls look and feel real. If you pause the info look genuine for that current purpose.

beauf

pixelburp wrote: »

Haha. That does also remind of one really nice touch; the interfaces on Drummer's ship were all in Belter patois.

One of the unheralded aspects throughout this show has been the production design: user interfaces often look and feel real, not just a flashy array of blinking lights or blather. Everything from PDAs to ship controls look and feel real. If you pause the info look genuine for that current purpose.

..anyone else start swiping their phone the way they do in the show...

H3llR4iser

For the life of me I'm trying to go through this, but it's really testing me. The constant jumping around between storylines is something I absolutely detest in current narratives; It usually means there are about 5-10 interesting minutes in each episode, with the rest being just total filler - even worse, finding myself having to pretty much endure the various "side" storylines which feel totally irrelevant, until maybe one final moment where they sorta converge (but usually doesn't really give any real importance to all that was shown in the meantime).

The general premise of the story is interesting, the execution...urgh. I'd be curious about the books, but...do they follow the same path? Entire chapters one is tempted to skip?

The stupidity of some characters and factions baffles me. Holden goes around pretty much saying "I'm talking to a dead man who tells me what to do!"...really? It took him a whole season to finally correct to the tune of "The protomolecule, somehow, communicates with me through mental projections!". Still sounds like a deranged lunatic, but might at least make someone think "ok, that is unlikely but possible...".

And the Belters...oh dear...they remind me of the fcuking Bajorians from DS9, always wallowing in them being "victims" and justifying anything with it. How do you think unprovoked attacks, defying multi-faction agreements and occupying unexplored worlds will help foster the consideration of other factions have for you?

breezy1985

H3llR4iser wrote: »

For the life of me I'm trying to go through this, but it's really testing me. The constant jumping around between storylines is something I absolutely detest in current narratives; It usually means there are about 5-10 interesting minutes in each episode, with the rest being just total filler - even worse, finding myself having to pretty much endure the various "side" storylines which feel totally irrelevant, until maybe one final moment where they sorta converge (but usually doesn't really give any real importance to all that was shown in the meantime).

The general premise of the story is interesting, the execution...urgh. I'd be curious about the books, but...do they follow the same path? Entire chapters one is tempted to skip?

The stupidity of some characters and factions baffles me. Holden goes around pretty much saying "I'm talking to a dead man who tells me what to do!"...really? It took him a whole season to finally correct to the tune of "The protomolecule, somehow, communicates with me through mental projections!". Still sounds like a deranged lunatic, but might at least make someone think "ok, that is unlikely but possible...".

And the Belters...oh dear...they remind me of the fcuking Bajorians from DS9, always wallowing in them being "victims" and justifying anything with it. How do you think unprovoked attacks, defying multi-faction agreements and occupying unexplored worlds will help foster the consideration of other factions have for you?

The books move around but slower as the story is from all sides and across various levels of politics/society pretty much the exact same way the Game of Thrones books did.

As for the Belters it's essentially 1800s Britain where the entire working class population has no vote and is exploited so "unprovoked" is a matter of opinion and as history shows them and us terrorism does work as the Irish should know better than most.
It sounds like you don't like some very major parts of it so I wouldn't waste any more time on the show or book.

And the Bajorans were victims and not "victims"

beauf

All those stories do connect, and interveave but they take time to develop. If you don't have the patience for that, maybe give it a miss. The books are even more densely packed. You'd have far more stuff you don't like to wade though.

I thought Game Of Thrones was worse for filler, at least in the books.

breezy1985

beauf wrote: »

All those stories do connect, and interveave but they take time to develop. If you don't have the patience for that, maybe give it a miss. The books are even more densely packed. You'd have far more stuff you don't like to wade though.

I thought Game Of Thrones was worse for filler, at least in the books.

Ya probably not helped by Martin not having a clue where his own story was going to go. Thankfully The Expanse is also far less concerned with the intricate details of how 12yo girls lost their virginity

pixelburp

Ha. That's the first time I've seen a viewer basically come down against the Belters as basically shifty malcontents. Maybe it's as I lamented, the lack of ordinary belter lives' perspectives, makes it seem like they're all Marcos Inaros in waiting.

The thing is, like a lot of real life parallels, the Inners caused this in turning the other way rather than addressing blatant exploitation and abuse against the "native" people of the belt. They were happy to reap the rewards of a class and race kept under the heal of unaccountable Private corporations, then act shocked when the Belters lashed out the only direction they could.

beauf

Fantasy is well known for losing itself, wheel of time etc.

Expanse isn't that.

The Expanse is just complex and densely packed. Expanse on the TV show has been reconstructed from the books. Its not a simple simplification.
It very interesting how they've reconstructed parts to work better in a TV format. In many way it tells the story in a clearer, more concise way from the books.

beauf

The TV show doesn't focus as much on the lives of ordinary belters that much. The books do flesh that out at bit more.

The books give you a wider context, a bigger world, a bigger space where all this plays out. The TV show makes everything seem a little small. If I have a criticism of the TV show its that.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Ha. That's the first time I've seen a viewer basically come down against the Belters as basically shifty malcontents. Maybe it's as I lamented, the lack of ordinary belter lives' perspectives, makes it seem like they're all Marcos Inaros in waiting.

The thing is, like a lot of real life parallels, the Inners caused this in turning the other way rather than addressing blatant exploitation and abuse against the "native" people of the belt. They were happy to reap the rewards of a class and race kept under the heal of unaccountable Private corporations, then act shocked when the Belters lashed out the only direction they could.

The distinction between them is harder to notice in the TV show too where they look like inners with tattoos due to TV constraints. They look physically different in the book and see themselves as a race and in the book the talk of "skinnys" and attitudes towards them is racism. They are the undocumented "Mexican" or "Paddy" tenant farmer of their century in terms of the stereotypes thrown at them

pixelburp

beauf wrote: »

The TV show doesn't focus as much on the lives of ordinary belters that much. The books do flesh that out at bit more.

The books give you a wider context, a bigger world, a bigger space where all this plays out. The TV show makes everything seem a little small. If I have a criticism of the TV show its that.

Oh yeah for sure I've been reading the books and it's a big flaw of season 4 in actively dropping an ordinary Belter family from the TV version's strands. But even without them, I'd not have figured the Belters as overall bad guys; it's clear the corporations have unfettered, unregulated access to the belt. It's all very East India Company.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh yeah for sure I've been reading the books and it's a big flaw of season 4 in actively dropping an ordinary Belter family from the TV version's strands. But even without them, I'd not have figured the Belters as overall bad guys; it's clear the corporations have unfettered, unregulated access to the belt. It's all very East India Company.

The two big governments are forever making treaty's and deals on the belts behalf too without any input from the belt. The OPA are about the fight for equal representation under Dawes and Fred and it's only Marco and the Free Navy that take it to an extreme

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

The two big governments are forever making treaty's and deals on the belts behalf too without any input from the belt. The OPA are about the fight for equal representation under Dawes and Fred and it's only Marco and the Free Navy that take it to an extreme

Yup, all very ANC, to read another parallel. A nominal terrorist organisation, fighting for freedoms all the same. The nature of the Belts fragmented physical nature probably made corporate hegemony easier to maintain at first. Also accounting for the dozens of rival gangs and factions, with no single entity having the literal range to control more than a couple of asteroids or stations at a time. Fred's obvious flaw was his background but you look to history and there was always a Saladin or Bolivar coming. Even the otherwise peerless Avarasala wasn't above some casual Belter torture to get her way, she had her own hand in what came to pass.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Yup, all very ANC, to read another parallel. A nominal terrorist organisation, fighting for freedoms all the same. The nature of the Belts fragmented physical nature probably made corporate hegemony easier to maintain at first. Also accounting for the dozens of rival gangs and factions, with no single entity having the literal range to control more than a couple of asteroids or stations at a time. Fred's obvious flaw was his background but you look to history and there was always a Saladin or Bolivar coming. Even the otherwise peerless Avarasala wasn't above some casual Belter torture to get her way, she had her own hand in what came to pass.

Oh go f$*% yourself