The Expanse (Amazon) [** Spoilers **]

Tristram

It really just gets better. To be able to create and maintain the level of tension it does is something special. Beautiful to look at to boot.

SoftMicro

A very beautiful episode in every sense of the word.

FreeOSCAR

Home - One of the most enjoyable episodes of TV I have watched in a while.

Baffled that more people are not watching this show.

PhiloCypher

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

Home - One of the most enjoyable episodes of TV I have watched in a while.

Baffled that more people are not watching this show.

You and me both , the whole episode was magnificent but the final 15 mins especially were just beautifully shot, scored and acted. Florence Faivre and Thomas Jane just knocked it out of the park . Considering how briefly Julie appeared in the first season and the fact that this is effectively the first time Miller and her meet the scene just works gangbusters .

Other little touches I appreciated were the luner time delay when Avasarala is talking to her husband who is on Luna and the fact that this is a show where so much tension and drama can be rung from them having to accelerate past human tolerances to keep up with Eros .

Kiith

Watched episode 5 there, and that was absolutely amazing. Season 2 had been great up to that point, but went beyond it for me with episode 5. One of the most enjoyable episodes of any show i think i've ever seen. The set/cgi design and the music were amazing. Can't wait for tonights episode.

Seriously, anyone on the fence needs to watch this.

GottaGetGatt

That closing was some tense stuff. This show just builds tension effortlessly.

PhiloCypher

Loving Wes Chathams portrayal of Amos a lot more then i did book Amos at this point in the books. Not having read the churn novella that goes into his background,he didn't really become 3 dimensional for me until he became a view point character in Nemesis games. Whether thats down to the difference in the mediums or foreknowledge of his background in the books and how it's informing Wes's portrayal in ways not necessarily obvious to a non book reader IDK.

ScumLord

I've caught up on this show and I'm wondering am I missing something. Has there ever been any explanation for why they're not that technologically advanced considering this is taking place 200 years in the future? Did something happen to stall things? A rush into space that meant they had to use what was available now? The tech of the show seems very much based on what we could do now with unlimited budgets.

pixelburp

ScumLord wrote: »

I've caught up on this show and I'm wondering am I missing something. Has there ever been any explanation for why they're not that technologically advanced considering this is taking place 200 years in the future? Did something happen to stall things? A rush into space that meant they had to use what was available now? The tech of the show seems very much based on what we could do now with unlimited budgets.

I've only read the first 3/4 books, but there has been no real explanation, it's just the way it is.

The technology's a bit more advanced mind you: IIRC the 'Epstein Drive' is the name of the general engine most ships use in The Expanse's universe, allowing for faster travel across the system in the space of hours rather than the months it would take ATM; obviously not fast enough for travel between systems, hence the restricted reach of humanity.

Mickeroo

pixelburp wrote: »

I've only read the first 3/4 books, but there has been no real explanation, it's just the way it is.

The technology's a bit more advanced mind you: IIRC the 'Epstein Drive' is the name of the general engine most ships use in The Expanse's universe, allowing for faster travel across the system in the space of hours rather than the months it would take ATM; obviously not fast enough for travel between systems, hence the restricted reach of humanity.

I think the journeys take weeks with the Epstein drive, they would take years with current technology if I'm not mistaken?

Also they're terraforming Mars which would be a bit outside of our current capability I would have thought?

pixelburp

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think the journeys take weeks with the Epstein drive, they would take years with current technology if I'm not mistaken?

Also they're terraforming Mars which would be a bit outside of our current capability I would have thought?

IIRC, the current estimation for a trip from Earth to Mars is approx. 6-9 months (NASA & pals have run a few isolation experiments of that length to see how crews might survive locked up together), so presumably the Epstein Driver is meant to reduce that time significantly & I've got the impression it's down to the hours between planets & moons, destinations notwithstanding. All speculation though but the thriving vibrant market in this universe could really only exist with travel times slashed IMO.

ScumLord

pixelburp wrote: »

IIRC, the current estimation for a trip from Earth to Mars is approx. 6-9 months (NASA & pals have run a few isolation experiments of that length to see how crews might survive locked up together), so presumably the Epstein Driver is meant to reduce that time significantly & I've got the impression it's down to the hours between planets & moons, destinations notwithstanding. All speculation though but the thriving vibrant market in this universe could really only exist with travel times slashed IMO.

The problem with a trip to mars today is you have to wait for the right time of year, otherwise it would take year/s when mars and earth are at their farthest apart. We're very much dependant on planet hopping, using their gravity wells to fling us from planet to planet. Which kind of makes the asteroid belt a bit of an issue as you've nothing to throw you back towards the inner solar system.

So if you wanted to trade with mars throughout the year we would need a faster ship to trade while mars and earth are farthest apart. If they could get it down to a month or so it would be comparable with shipping from China to Europe.

The show does give the impression that traveling around the inner solar system is straightforward enough with the asteroid belt being the outer reaches.

PhiloCypher

ScumLord wrote: »

I've caught up on this show and I'm wondering am I missing something. Has there ever been any explanation for why they're not that technologically advanced considering this is taking place 200 years in the future? Did something happen to stall things? A rush into space that meant they had to use what was available now? The tech of the show seems very much based on what we could do now with unlimited budgets.

You haven't missed anything , 50 years of science fiction and more specifically star trek have just trained you to believe some exotic form of space travel is just around the corner and we should have spread well beyond our solar system by the 2200's like we had in star trek. The fact we haven't in Expanse is what makes it so realistic(impossibly efficient Epstein drive nothwidthstanding) and novel . I think the future the Expanse paints and the pace of humanities expansion within it is infinitely more likely then any sort of Star trek wish fulfillment.

Think about it , how long were we using sails before steam power came along . If trump doesn't bring about the end like f days I can see us still using chemical, nuclear or fusion drives in 300-500 years time.

ScumLord

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You haven't missed anything , 50 years of science fiction and more specifically star trek have just trained you to believe some exotic form of space travel is just around the corner and we should have spread well beyond our solar system by the 2200's like we had in star trek. The fact we haven't in Expanse is what makes it so realistic(impossibly efficient Epstein drive nothwidthstanding) and novel . I think the future the Expanse paints and the pace of humanities expansion within it is infinitely more likely then any sort of Star trek wish fulfillment.

It's got nothing to do with a star trek universe. Expanse has basically no new technology in it. Where's the AI, where's the automation? The big issue for humanity right now is automation taking all the jobs, in 50 years it's going to be at a stage where capitalism as we know it may not work because machines are doing all the jobs that humans used to get paid for, meaning humans have no disposable income. Where's that realistic future?

By the time this show takes place there could well be AI that's smarter than all of humanity combined. Where are they?

Their communications technology is no more advanced than having see through phones, where's all the integrated tech? There's a bit of augmented reality but that's a tech we'll see come out this year and it hasn't gotten much more advanced than first generation 200 years from now?

The way the spaceships move and operate is pretty good it's just culturally this show has basically taken today's society and put it in space, it's not really a view of the future at all. It hasn't taken what's going to be possible in the next 50 years and tried to see how humans will operate in that world, it's taken current storyline and wrapped some space stuff around it.

Kirby

ScumLord wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with a star trek universe. Expanse has basically no new technology in it.

Really? We don't even currently have space ships or stations with gravity. Let that sink in for a moment. Our astronauts still float.

Every ship and station in this show has artificial gravity. That alone is a huge leap. It's something we don't currently have. Sure, we have plenty of operational theories and mechanisms for doing so.....but none in effect.

Thats not even getting into their ultra efficient engines and magic drugs that can let the human body survive fatal G-forces.

I mean look at Eros. A massive space station built into an asteroid. That is so far beyond what we can do at the moment.

ScumLord

Kirby wrote: »

Really? We don't even currently have space ships or stations with gravity. Let that sink in for a moment. Our astronauts still float.

Every ship and station in this show has artificial gravity. That alone is a huge leap. It's something we don't currently have. Sure, we have plenty of operational theories and mechanisms for doing so.....but none in effect.

Thats not even getting into their ultra efficient engines and magic drugs that can let the human body survive fatal G-forces.

I mean look at Eros. A massive space station built into an asteroid. That is so far beyond what we can do at the moment.

You've completely missed the point of my post.

Obviously they need space ships and stations or it's not a space fiction. Every sci-fi since the beginning has had artificial gravity, it's actually easier to assume that technology exists in your sci fi.

Where's the AI and automation, they'd make most of the social issues in this show nonexistent, or wildly different.

Thargor

Kirby wrote: »

Really? We don't even currently have space ships or stations with gravity. Let that sink in for a moment. Our astronauts still float.

Every ship and station in this show has artificial gravity. That alone is a huge leap. It's something we don't currently have. Sure, we have plenty of operational theories and mechanisms for doing so.....but none in effect.

Thats not even getting into their ultra efficient engines and magic drugs that can let the human body survive fatal G-forces.

I mean look at Eros. A massive space station built into an asteroid. That is so far beyond what we can do at the moment.

Errrr... there is no artificial gravity in the Expanse, they either spin up the stations and ships to simulate it or accelerate, otherwise its freefall. The belters are all stretched out with serious medical problems from lack of gravity. Theres nothing magic about the drugs either, they just prevent strokes and other issues at high G and they barely work, Im sure the Russians and Americans have been testing similar drugs for their pilots for years.

Kirby

Thargor wrote: »

there is no artificial gravity in the Expanse, they either spin up the stations and ships to simulate it or accelerate

Thats why they call it "artificial" gravity. Any technique used to simulate gravity is called Artificial gravity. Spinning being the easiest to do. We know this now....but we still havent gotten a ship or station to do it and we are years from being able to.

Thats a technological jump, no?

pixelburp

I think in debating 'technological jumps', it's worth considering what's just theory, conceptually possible or just plain sci-fi magic.

So while things like Star Trek's teleportation is theoretically possible, the energy & computational levels are so far advanced against what we're capable of now it's kind of borderline magic anyway. It'll be many, many generations before our computers could conceivably cope with the raw data required to deal with matter teleportation.

On the other hand, artificial gravity by way of a centrifugal force is, while also still in a theoretical state ATM, much more viable than the above; artistic licence has to be considered in all these sorts of conversations, but as a concept it's realistically achievable using technology not too far from our own (as is my understanding of the science). Same with other future tech such as space elevators, fusion reactors, ion drives and the like: the science says we can do it, there's often just some single missing link in the development or a lack of nuance / efficiency in the implementation; in the case of space elevators, it's the elusive carbon nanotubes that R&D pursues.

As for The Expanse and how it doesn't reflect changes happening now, I somewhat disagree. AI is still a very fluctuating technology and while there are plenty of strides being made ATM, I don't believe we're anywhere near an AI passing the Turing Test, or automation being a broad threat to human employability. In fact, the threat to employment may yet drive AI's downfall: who knows what cultural changes might occur between now and the era of The Expanse that could wipe out the scientific development of AI. Look at how hysterical the mob has become, with the high levels of anti-science, nationalistic rhetoric around these days - we may yet see a real-life Butlerian Jihad

ScumLord

pixelburp wrote: »

As for The Expanse and how it doesn't reflect changes happening now, I somewhat disagree. AI is still a very fluctuating technology and while there are plenty of strides being made ATM, I don't believe we're anywhere near an AI passing the Turing Test, or automation being a broad threat to human employability.

I think AI is a certainty going into the future, if we want to be economical. AI do boring jobs really well. There are millions of jobs a computer could do better and the person put to better use. The other thing is AI is making robots easier to program. We only want those jobs because we get paid for them. Once the job is gone there's no going back.

In fact, the threat to employment may yet drive AI's downfall: who knows what cultural changes might occur between now and the era of The Expanse that could wipe out the scientific development of AI. Look at how hysterical the mob has become, with the high levels of anti-science, nationalistic rhetoric around these days - we may yet see a real-life Butlerian Jihad

I could see that happening. Who knows what the coming generations are going to do. They could go through another hippy phase for all we know. But that would be counter productive to getting into space.


I think that current technologies like 3d printing and things like AI accounting bots are actually a huge threat to mass production companies. It could get to the stage where a guy in his back shed could run a successful engineering business all on his own with no ongoing labour costs and be able to produce anything the big boys can produce. We could end up with highly localised markets, where instead of buying off the shelf you can go to a local expert and get a custom made product for roughly the same price, if not cheaper.

Automation and AI may just create a different kind of economy. It would make any space faring society completely independant. With things like lab grown meat meaning they don't need earth for anything. It makes the conflict in expanse completely unnecessary. There would be no resource shortages and monopolies would be borderline impossible to maintain.

Thargor

Kirby wrote: »

Thats why they call it "artificial" gravity. Any technique used to simulate gravity is called Artificial gravity. Spinning being the easiest to do. We know this now....but we still havent gotten a ship or station to do it and we are years from being able to.

Thats a technological jump, no?

Of course it's not, have you ever been on a fairground ride like the Wall of Death? Any craft from the Shuttle to Soyuz would be perfectly capable of spinning up with its thrusters they just don't bother because it's not worth the fuel or extra complications. The ability to make something spin or accelerate is not a technological leap.

With regards to the Expanse & technology, could a possible reason for their supposed halt of advancement be because there are no other races, but instead humankind as a whole? In many other shows, advancement is needed if we are to beat an alien race.

Kirby

Thargor wrote: »

Of course it's not, have you ever been on a fairground ride like the Wall of Death? Any craft from the Shuttle to Soyuz would be perfectly capable of spinning up with its thrusters they just don't bother because it's not worth the fuel or extra complications. The ability to make something spin or accelerate is not a technological leap.

It's not a case of "just dont bother". They cant. The RCS isn't designed for that and the shuttle and soyuz arent the right shape or mass for it. It's a lot more complicated than you are making it sound man. "Just spin around a bit" doesn't quite do it justice. There is a massive difference in centrifugal force glueing you to your chair.....and walking about casually like you would on the ground.

The reason we don't have artificial gravity is not because we dont want it, its because NASA never figured out how to do it.

The ability to make something spin or accelerate is not a technological leap. Absolutely correct. The ability to use that to simulate gravity on a space ship/station IS however a technological leap. We still can't do it.

However, we have rockets than can land now so it may not be too far off.

Thargor

Kirby wrote: »

It's not a case of "just dont bother". They cant. The RCS isn't designed for that and the shuttle and soyuz arent the right shape or mass for it. It's a lot more complicated than you are making it sound man. "Just spin around a bit" doesn't quite do it justice. There is a massive difference in centrifugal force glueing you to your chair.....and walking about casually like you would on the ground.

The reason we don't have artificial gravity is not because we dont want it, its because NASA never figured out how to do it.

The ability to make something spin or accelerate is not a technological leap. Absolutely correct. The ability to use that to simulate gravity on a space ship/station IS however a technological leap. We still can't do it.

However, we have rockets than can land now so it may not be too far off.

Sorry but you're completely wrong, The force gluing an astronaut to his chair is the exact same force as this mysterious artificial gravity you say is beyond our grasp, which it isn't.

If an astronaut is stuck to his chair through rotation or thrust its just a matter of reducing that to 1g either by slowing the thrust or reducing the spin and he would feel the same as if he was on Earth. A rotating craft or station would present zero problems for NASA besides financial if it was ever required, they just aren't needed for current missions. It's just not accurate to call it artificial gravity and say it's out of reach of our current tech, it is current technology and has been completely understood for decades, to the point where it's used in fairground rides.

Artificial Gravity in the science fiction sense refers to gravplates and tractor beams and that kind of thing.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

With regards to the Expanse & technology, could a possible reason for their supposed halt of advancement be because there are no other races, but instead humankind as a whole? In many other shows, advancement is needed if we are to beat an alien race.

They're all on the verge of war with each other though. That usually sends humanity into a technology race. Usually moving into a new environment would trigger even more innovation.

If there was some ecological disaster that forced people to leave immediately it could explain why there's so much old tech around and not much innovation. They just had to start building with what was available and it took decades to get part of a sizable part of the population into space. Everything since then has been catch up.

opus

Must say I'm really enjoying this season of the show, thought the first season was ok but now I'm well & truly hooked! Friend of mine who's read the books was filling me in today on where the show is now compared to them.

Tristram

Another absolute cracker of an episode. This show is simply unrelenting. Has there been a single episode yet that hasn't been brilliant?!

ScumLord

opus wrote: »

Must say I'm really enjoying this season of the show, thought the first season was ok but now I'm well & truly hooked! Friend of mine who's read the books was filling me in today on where the show is now compared to them.

It is getting better, but it kind of looks like the first season was setting everything up and now it ready to get going. If all the differences are set aside to fight a common enemy, it makes the whole first season a bit pointless though.

Tristram

Very disappointed to see speculation that this could well be cancelled after the third season. Hopefully they are given enough time and notice to get through and conclude story arcs properly.

GottaGetGatt

Man when Holden goes on Open Broadcast.Its just epic. His revealing Broadcast in episode 5 was just class.