Pope's idiotic comment.

Peist2007

kylith wrote: »

What this pope has done is change people's perception of the RCC/Papacy. He gives a couple of soundbites of meaningless platitudes and people think he's Fr. Trendy even though all he is doing is glossing over the fact that the church is doing exactly what it always has and it's teachings on women, homosexuals, and everything else haven't changed one iota.

Exactly. He is a nice man but to think he got to where he is without being completely in favour of the Church's position over the past few decades is completely naive. Father Trendy is a good analogy, the Church needed a PR boost and this guy was appointed to do just that.

Baggy Trousers

kylith wrote: »

What this pope has done is change people's perception of the RCC/Papacy. He gives a couple of soundbites of meaningless platitudes and people think he's Fr. Trendy even though all he is doing is glossing over the fact that the church is doing exactly what it always has and it's teachings on women, homosexuals, and everything else haven't changed one iota.

I agree, he is still leader of a farce. Even though he might come across as modern thinking initially, eventually he will look as foolish as the farce unless there are major changes within the Roman church.

K4t

kylith wrote: »

What this pope has done is change people's perception of the RCC/Papacy. He gives a couple of soundbites of meaningless platitudes and people think he's Fr. Trendy even though all he is doing is glossing over the fact that the church is doing exactly what it always has and it's teachings on women, homosexuals, and everything else haven't changed one iota.

True. He is more dangerous than the religious nut as he hides his true beliefs and intentions and makes the common man forget the institution he represents and has been at the forefront of for most of his life. Extremely dangerous people.

seamus

Relevant:
https://i.imgur.com/VHO5nhq.jpg

Woodville56

K4t wrote: »

It should remain in the past along with its many atrocities. Have you not noticed the worrying trend on boards recently as they have slowly forgotten even the abuse scandals that dominated our news only a couple of years ago, thanks to an apparently "cool" "with the times" "new age" "modern" pope and the fact that we still live in a society where our supposed 'educated youth' are still socially conditioned to just 'accept' religion and the catholic church as it is as culturally pervasive as ever. It is frightening.

If there's been, as you claim, a collective amnesia around the abuse scandals of recent years in relation to the Catholic Church, there appears to be a similar amnesia around all the good work done by the decent and honourable men and women of religious orders over the years (yes, there were many such people) in the areas of establishing health and education facilities and other social services. As one who received a good education in a catholic /religious run school, I never felt that I was being "socially conditioned to accept religion" or that my education was underpinned by a "culturally pervasive" Catholic church culture. Must have missed that bit ! Or maybe I'm just not "cool" enough to appreciate the enlightened intelegensia that would brand all Catholicism and its supporters as unfashionable, evil, malevolent or even frightening ?

Peist2007

Woodville56 wrote: »

If there's been, as you claim, a collective amnesia around the abuse scandals of recent years in relation to the Catholic Church, there appears to be a similar amnesia around all the good work done by the decent and honourable men and women of religious orders over the years (yes, there were many such people) in the areas of establishing health and education facilities and other social services. As one who received a good education in a catholic /religious run school, I never felt that I was being "socially conditioned to accept religion" or that my education was underpinned by a "culturally pervasive" Catholic church culture. Must have missed that bit ! Or maybe I'm just not "cool" enough to appreciate the enlightened intelegensia that would brand all Catholicism and its supporters as unfashionable, evil, malevolent or even frightening ?

Forget about the child sex abuse people, Woodville saw none of it

jobbridge4life

Woodville56 wrote: »

If there's been, as you claim, a collective amnesia around the abuse scandals of recent years in relation to the Catholic Church, there appears to be a similar amnesia around all the good work done by the decent and honourable men and women of religious orders over the years (yes, there were many such people) in the areas of establishing health and education facilities and other social services. As one who received a good education in a catholic /religious run school, I never felt that I was being "socially conditioned to accept religion" or that my education was underpinned by a "culturally pervasive" Catholic church culture. Must have missed that bit ! Or maybe I'm just not "cool" enough to appreciate the enlightened intelegensia that would brand all Catholicism and its supporters as unfashionable, evil, malevolent or even frightening ?

I have some sympathy for your position but it is only for those good people who find themselves the victim of prejudice. On a whole if you imagine another fabulously wealthy global organisation that actively concealed child abuse on a similar scale as the Catholic Church or actively protected pedophiles from justice leaving aside the other myriad abuses perpetrated by the Church or its members not only would they be the subject unfriendly popular opinion they would be outlawed, the assets seized and the leaders in jail.

kylith

Woodville56 wrote: »

If there's been, as you claim, a collective amnesia around the abuse scandals of recent years in relation to the Catholic Church, there appears to be a similar amnesia around all the good work done by the decent and honourable men and women of religious orders over the years (yes, there were many such people) in the areas of establishing health and education facilities and other social services.

You mean the school system which the all-but-priest De Valera handed the RCC on their request?

It seems weird to me that people seem to think that were it not for the RCC the government wouldn't have supplied so much as a primary school or a hospital in the country.

Woodville56 wrote: »

As one who received a good education in a catholic /religious run school, I never felt that I was being "socially conditioned to accept religion" or that my education was underpinned by a "culturally pervasive" Catholic church culture. Must have missed that bit ! Or maybe I'm just not "cool" enough to appreciate the enlightened intelegensia that would brand all Catholicism and its supporters as unfashionable, evil, malevolent or even frightening ?

If the social conditioning toward religion was not done in schools do you think that there would be a fraction of the number of children making communions and confirmations? Schools preparing children for this makes it the default and a child who does not participate is excluded from their peer group and possibly bullied for being 'different'.

smoking_kills

If the Pope keeps this up I'm breaking out the alter boy jokes again.

floggg

Woodville56 wrote: »

If there's been, as you claim, a collective amnesia around the abuse scandals of recent years in relation to the Catholic Church, there appears to be a similar amnesia around all the good work done by the decent and honourable men and women of religious orders over the years (yes, there were many such people) in the areas of establishing health and education facilities and other social services. As one who received a good education in a catholic /religious run school, I never felt that I was being "socially conditioned to accept religion" or that my education was underpinned by a "culturally pervasive" Catholic church culture. Must have missed that bit ! Or maybe I'm just not "cool" enough to appreciate the enlightened intelegensia that would brand all Catholicism and its supporters as unfashionable, evil, malevolent or even frightening ?

I would agree that the church has done many good things at times, and not all church members are evil or wrong doers.

My criticism of those people though is there absolute failure to take any sort of public stand against the church policies and hierarchy and demand reforms.

We are told that most Catholics disagree with church policy on many issues including abuse, contraception, HIV prevention, homosexuality, women's rights and their role in the church etc, but when have they ever stood up to be counted on these issues.

I am aware of some isolated cases censored by the church (there was a priest in Irelanda Few years back and the nuns in the U.S.) but there has been no concerted effort by either the clergy or the lay community to demand change.

Until they do, I don't think they can properly distance themselves from the actions and policies of the church hierarchy who claim their (tacit) support.

The_Valeyard

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I agree, he is still leader of a farce. Even though he might come across as modern thinking initially, eventually he will look as foolish as the farce unless there are major changes within the Roman church.

K4t wrote: »

True. He is more dangerous than the religious nut as he hides his true beliefs and intentions and makes the common man forget the institution he represents and has been at the forefront of for most of his life. Extremely dangerous people.

Peist2007 wrote: »

Forget about the child sex abuse people, Woodville saw none of it

Yep, usual mass bashing of people ( around 1 billion )

Do ye comment in other threads or is it just anything to do with religion/catholic church, etc?
Or are ye an organised anti-theist contingent? :pac:

The way some of the posts go, its almost as if you wish religion would just remain hidden, in the home, no expression, thought, or maybe into camps. :rolleyes:

mikom

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The way some of the posts go, its almost as if you wish religion would just remain hidden, in the home, no expression, thought, or maybe into camps. :rolleyes:

Like a Jesus camp?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE

jobbridge4life

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The way some of the posts go, its almost as if you wish religion would just remain hidden, in the home, no expression, thought, or maybe into camps. :rolleyes:

Oh no! How inhumane, certainly much crueler than most theists who believe that those who fail to adhere to their particular creed are doomed to an eternity of torment.:rolleyes:

Peist2007

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Yep, usual mass bashing of people ( around 1 billion )

Do ye comment in other threads or is it just anything to do with religion/catholic church, etc?
Or are ye an organised anti-theist contingent? :pac:

The way some of the posts go, its almost as if you wish religion would just remain hidden, in the home, no expression, thought, or maybe into camps. :rolleyes:

I didnt attack 1 billion people. I attacked Woodville's post.

And i genuinely do think that you could be on to something there. Hiding it from view is the only way to go. I disagree with camps as i am not a fascist. I just see the havoc religion has caused and still causes and, now that we all are now educated and informed, religion has run its course.

Ps quite easy to see where else i have commented. I reckon all that religion has completely lobotomised the propoensity for independent thought you may once have had.

The_Valeyard

mikom wrote: »

Like a Jesus camp?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE

Seen it, great film on fundamentalism. Love the bit on Harry Potter.

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Oh no! How inhumane, certainly much crueler than most theists who believe that those who fail to adhere to their particular creed are doomed to an eternity of torment.:rolleyes:

and someone has said this to your face, so blame all religion?

Peist2007 wrote: »

I didnt attack 1 billion people. I attacked Woodville's post.

And i genuinely do think that you could be on to something there. Hiding it from view is the only way to go. I disagree with camps as i am not a fascist. I just see the havoc religion has caused and still causes and, now that we all are now educated and informed, religion has run its course.

If its part of they way of life, so just conform to the way secularists and atheists demand? Obey the loudest minority vocal group.




And here comes the atheist reinforcements!! Must crush religion!!! :pac: :pac: :pac:

Peist2007

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Seen it, great film on fundamentalism. Love the bit on Harry Potter.



and someone has said this to your face, so blame all religion?


If its part of they way of life, so just conform to the way secularists and atheists demand? Obey the loudest minority vocal group.




And here comes the atheist reinforcements!! Must crush religion!!! :pac: :pac: :pac:

So you have no answer then, ok.

After Hours really is full of goons.

MOD: User banned for continued abuse.

shruikan2553

Now here is an idiotic comment from the pope. Im assuming he forgot who he was.

To a separate question, the Pope said that most importantly, no outside institution should impose its views on families.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30890989

The_Valeyard

Peist2007 wrote: »

So you have no answer then, ok.

After Hours really is full of goons.

Please refrain from a personal attack on me, and stick to the post.

Answer for what?

K4t

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Yep, usual mass bashing of people ( around 1 billion )

I bash the religion, not the people, if you can understand that. The people are victims of indoctrination, social conditioning, lack of education, fear etc. Nobody who is born automatically believes in a God or a certain religion. They are taught these things which are purely fiction because it is commonly accepted as the thing to do. It doesn't have to be that way if people were only brave enough to change.

The way some of the posts go, its almost as if you wish religion would just remain hidden, in the home, no expression, thought, or maybe into camps. :rolleyes:

No, quite the opposite in fact, I'd much rather it out in the open and voicing its many backward ideologies as loudly as possible, like the pope last week. I don't however want people to be allowed to hide behind blasphemy laws when their religion is criticised, mocked or they are offended. Just as I would not use any laws to silence them.

mikom

Have Pavee point commented on the Pope's "Three kid" rule?

K4t

mikom wrote: »

Have Pavee point commented on the Pope's "Three kid" rule?

You know the old catholic saying, keep quiet and ignore any bad things you see happening or anything you disagree with and it will go away or be forgotten.

ScumLord

jobbridge4life wrote: »

On a whole if you imagine another fabulously wealthy global organisation that actively concealed child abuse on a similar scale as the Catholic Church or actively protected pedophiles from justice leaving aside the other myriad abuses perpetrated by the Church or its members not only would they be the subject unfriendly popular opinion they would be outlawed, the assets seized and the leaders in jail.

What about the Irish state that covered up the abuses to protect the church? What about teachers around the world that take advantage of their students? What about global corporations that cover up abuses to protect their profits? What about militaries abusing their powers? I'd agree that institutions have to be held accountable for their actions and they shouldn't be allowed to avoid any reprimand by throwing one or two people under the bus.

The churches seem all the more worse because of the sanctimonious position they try to portray but the fact is what happened is something that happens in just about all powerful institutions that value the reputation of the institution above all else which allows predators to use that institutions reputation to prey on people too afraid to speak out. The church isn't unique.

jobbridge4life

ScumLord wrote: »

What about the Irish state that covered up the abuses to protect the church?

Ah well the State enjoys a significant advantage in so far as it is, you know the State.

ScumLord wrote: »

What about teachers around the world that take advantage of their students?

If there was an international association of teachers, lets call it the the International Teachy Teachers Union, and they used their reach and resources to conceal their members large scale and horrific abuse of children over decades and continents I have no hesitation in believing they would be hounded out of existence.

ScumLord wrote: »

What about global corporations that cover up abuses to protect their profits?

Do you know of another organisation that systematically abused and protected abusers on anything approaching the scale done by the Church or its employees?If so alert the media. And furthermore do you know any that survived the scandal.

ScumLord

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Do you know of another organisation that systematically abused and protected abusers on anything approaching the scale done by the Church or its employees?If so alert the media. And furthermore do you know any that survived the scandal.

The banking crisis would be an example, banks tried to cover up the actions of their employees siphoning money out of customers because it would reflect badly on them. It's been known to happen time and time again where large corporations have taken advantage of employees and poorer countries resources for profiteering, they've covered up the effects of their products or actions and hid their directors from prosecution.

Now it's not child abuse, so it doesn't disgust us as much murder, or environmental damage, or displacing thousands of people, but it does happen. Any organisation that is that powerful and where it's members can avoid consequences even when they do get caught will attract people more than willing to take advantage of that situation.