Business help

lone hunter

After going down the mentor road with EI I have come to the opinion that the mentors I have met didn't really understand my business after several meetings. We have a well established set up and all I need is someone to help it grow further . Basically we need to increase our customer base, I have also tried salesmen employed by ourselves in the past with no great success , what now ?

Bandara

Employ a known seriously good operator in the area you need from your best competitor ?

See how they operate, learn from them, and if they pay for themselves keep them on, if they don't, get rid and you've been set on the right road to fixing your issue regardless

Just a suggestion

lone hunter

Bandara wrote: »

Employ a known seriously good operator in the area you need from your best competitor ?

See how they operate, learn fr

Thanks Bandara, tried that as well no luck

Buttercake

It's the million dollar question for any business!

What do your competitors do? Why do customers choose them? Is this a niche or competitive industry?

lone hunter

It's a competitive industry, we have been in business several years and survived a lot of crap , so we must be doing something right , but still need to get more sales. I don't want to go into specifics here but if someone thinks they can help they can PM me

Buttercake

It's great you have survived the last few years especially in a competitive space but has the business become dynamic and changed with the times or just rode it out? Could it be precieved as "stale"? - the thing about competitive industries is that there will always be a new player waiting around the corner to join the market, it's what makes it competitive! so while an established business has the experience, knowledge etc they might be considered "same old"

Any business can be attractive without having someone cold calling the Golden Pages. It's your business and you are the biggest asset, I bet you know your services inside out so you should take the reigns for a while. Consider business associations, awards?, networking events, building relationships with local businesses, even building relationships withsmall competitors, new website, logo, freshen things up!

The great thing I love about business in Ireland is word of mouth and referrals is priceless, I have built my businesses on this principle.

I'm only speaking objectively of course! - good luck, hope you find some inspiration.

lone hunter

Buttercake wrote: »

It's great you have survived the last few years especially in a competitive space but has the business become dynamic and changed with the times or just rode it out? Could it be precieved as "stale"? - the thing about competitive industries is that there will always be a new player waiting around the corner to join the market, it's what makes it competitive! so while an established business has the experience, knowledge etc they might be considered "same old"

Any business can be attractive without having someone cold calling the Golden Pages. It's your business and you are the biggest asset, I bet you know your services inside out so you should take the reigns for a while. Consider business associations, awards?, networking events, building relationships with local businesses, even building relationships withsmall competitors, new website, logo, freshen things up!

The great thing I love about business in Ireland is word of mouth and referrals is priceless, I have built my businesses on this principle.

I'm only speaking objectively of course! - good luck, hope you find some inspiration.

You are right butter cake , it's about who you know , repeat business and referrals , I just seem to be out of ideas , just upgraded the web page this week , won awards , and have subcontracted both ways with competitors, I just seem to have hit a wall. I employ a good few people and I want to keep them all in work , there must be someone out there to guide me in bringing more customers to the table, I know once I get them to the table I will sell myself and the company. I always have had the reigns even with the sales . The company to date has built a great reputation with most of the work being for repeat customers , just need something new

pedronomix

Hard to give specific advice on such a complex matter with so little information. I would start with the key questions. You give the impression that you do a good job in a competitive market, assuming this is the case :

Where is your pricing in the market?
What percentage of sales enquiries do you close?
Why did you not get those that bought elsewhere?

Is there actually sufficient market demand?
Is the market, like many in Ireland, oversupplied with vendors for the size of the available opportunity?
How are you different to your top 3 performing competitors? Or perhaps how are they different to you?

Your situation is far from unique in Ireland, so many business out there would be absolutely transformed by an additional 20% in sales. All the real profit is in the last 20% top slice!

Buttercake

As pedronomix says, it's hard to shed any light without knowing the type of business, a competitive industry usually falls down to price, of course quality and experience are key tenants but 95% its price. Especially if your selling/dealing with Joe & Mary Public. If you charge €100 and your competitor charges €80 for the same product/service, why should I go with you?

There's no magic wand and I would be starting to review the Operation from the top down if I was making losses, moral might be low and it might be a number of things that need changing, even if you hire a crack sales guy, your market may still go elsewhere for different reasons.

pedroeibar1

pedronomix wrote: »

Hard to give specific advice on such a complex matter with so little information. I would start with the key questions. You give the impression that you do a good job in a competitive market, assuming this is the case :

Where is your pricing in the market?
What percentage of sales enquiries do you close?
Why did you not get those that bought elsewhere?

Is there actually sufficient market demand?
Is the market, like many in Ireland, oversupplied with vendors for the size of the available opportunity?
How are you different to your top 3 performing competitors? Or perhaps how are they different to you?

Your situation is far from unique in Ireland, so many business out there would be absolutely transformed by an additional 20% in sales. All the real profit is in the last 20% top slice!

The above is a list of very good questions. The only things I would add are:- your product – where is it in its life cycle? Why are you getting repeat orders from your customers? Could you provide a cheaper version without cannibalization? E.g. in the service industry for e.g. I do not want a five star hotel when I travel, with porters, flunkey waiters, flowers/fruit in my room, spas, etc – I just want a 3star room, good bed & coffeemaker machine. No point in anyone targeting me with €400 a night room.
OP, you need to look at the P’s - product, price, promotion, place, packaging, positioning and people. I’d look closely on the latter, have you got their remuneration structure right?

smcgiff

Erm, what type of advertising/marketing/PR have you done?

You're happy with your sales conversion abilities. It seems you need to be noticed / be recognised as an option.

lone hunter

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

The above is a list of very good questions. The only things I would add are:- your product – where is it in its life cycle? Why are you getting repeat orders from your customers? Could you provide a cheaper version without cannibalization? E.g. in the service industry for e.g. I do not want a five star hotel when I travel, with porters, flunkey waiters, flowers/fruit in my room, spas, etc – I just want a 3star room, good bed & coffeemaker machine. No point in anyone targeting me with €400 a night room.
OP, you need to look at the P’s - product, price, promotion, place, packaging, positioning and people. I’d look closely on the latter, have you got their remuneration structure right?

Thanks pedroelbar, I have looked at the p,s unfortunately it's so competitive a market that the customer wants that 5 star service, quality etc for 2 star prices. I don't think it's promotion that's needed, it's to get to meet the right person in the right position , build up a relationship as I have done with existing customers and go from there. As for promotion , I have never got any work from that, it's who you know or that big referral

smcgiff

lone hunter wrote: »

it's who you know or that big referral

Seems like you know all you need to know then.

lone hunter

smcgiff wrote: »

Seems like you know all you need to know then.

Yes I know but how do I get to speak in person to the right man in the right position , typical example , I sent 2 mails to potential customers last week in the same organisation and got similar replies , more or less we have all we need in your category business and it wouldn't be worth their while or their time in getting a new supplier approved.

pedronomix

the old its who you know line always strikes me as an excuse rather than a valid reason but simply rectified.. get to know more people or more correctly.. make sure they know you!

smcgiff

lone hunter wrote: »

Yes I know but how do I get to speak in person to the right man in the right position , typical example , I sent 2 mails to potential customers last week in the same organisation and got similar replies , more or less we have all we need in your category business and it wouldn't be worth their while or their time in getting a new supplier approved.

Can I answer your question with a question? (Okay another one)

What have you already done to get your name out there? You are correct in thinking that being known is very important, especially to a manager not responsible for cost. They just want results.

In the case above were you able to demonstrate why it would be worth their while. If not you were wasting their time.

lone hunter

smcgiff wrote: »

Can I answer your question with a question? (Okay another one)

What have you already done to get your name out there? You are correct in thinking that being known is very important, especially to a manager not responsible for cost. They just want results.

In the case above were you able to demonstrate why it would be worth their while. If not you were wasting their time.

No I wasn't able to demonstrate why we would be better or worth their while . I sent them a detailed email outlining our company , i requested a meeting . I got their contacts from someone else within the company , these two mails were sent to people very high up because I have found that going lower within any organisation is a waste of time . If I could have got to meet them I might have a better hope but they wouldn't even take calls that's why I sent the mails

smcgiff

lone hunter wrote: »

No I wasn't able to demonstrate why we would be better or worth their while . I sent them a detailed email outlining our company , i requested a meeting . I got their contacts from someone else within the company , these two mails were sent to people very high up because I have found that going lower within any organisation is a waste of time . If I could have got to meet them I might have a better hope but they wouldn't even take calls that's why I sent the mails

Going by the very little info we have to go on...

You made contact and got a response from a potential client and were not able to progress.

Is this service/product crucial or in anyway important to the company? If it was you should have been able to make some progress with a follow up email. You did have their attention. 'Would you be interested if we supplied the service/product at cost for x time?' Or 'thanks for replying. But hopefully you'll give some time reading the below testimonials from some of our existing clients'.

With that said, some services/products are so important that if they are happy with their current supplier they won't change. No point wasting time on these.

Again, what have you done in the past to get your name out there?

Graham

lone hunter wrote: »

No I wasn't able to demonstrate why we would be better or worth their while.

Why would anyone consider swapping to you over their existing supplier if that's the case?

If I were that potential customer I would want to know how you could provide it faster, cheaper or better. Without any of those, why would I even consider switching from my current known and trusted supplier?

lone hunter

Graham wrote: »

Why would anyone consider swapping to you over their existing supplier if that's the case?

If I were that potential customer I would want to know how you could provide it faster, cheaper or better. Without any of those, why would I even consider switching from my current known and trusted supplier?

I did outline in my emails the advantages in using our company , ie service , quality , back up etc , you need to get to speak with them directly to sell yourself and the company , this is the problem I have and have always had

Buttercake

i think you should reveal what industry you are in, you would get better advice which may help. I dont know if you sell sandwich boards or trips to the Antarctic. There will be hundreds of operators, you don't have to give location or anything else.

Boards is a big site but sure only 3 or 4 people read this forum:pac:

Buttercake

lone hunter wrote: »

you need to get to speak with them directly to sell yourself and the company , this is the problem I have and have always had

This, there are sales and selling courses available with the LEO. One coming up in February
https://www.localenterprise.ie/DublinCity/Training-Events/Online-Bookings/Sales-and-Selling1.html

Do you do a follow up call after you send an email? Ask questions about their current provider? Can you do a deal with them?, Free trial

You say you want to keep your staff on but if theres nothing for them to do....

sw33t_r3v3ng3

Does your business provide a service or sell a product? If selling a product introduce something new.Maybe even change an existing product. Consumers like new things that have a sort of wow factor or are just different from the norm. However this can be risky finding the right balance What about marketing? You say your customers are mostly returning customers (which by no means is a bad thing), but why not try to change up the marketing strategy a bit. Maybe something that catches potential customers attention like a catchy jingle or song.

lone hunter

It's an engineering manufacture business , serving all industries

Voltex

OP..have you come across co-opetition? Is there the possibility to co-operate with another organisation in the same area to the benefit of both?
Without going into to too much detail there is sufficient empirical evidence to suggest that organisations that engage in co-operative actions with other organisations realise higher results.

lone hunter

Voltex wrote: »

OP..have you come across co-opetition? Is there the possibility to co-operate with another organisation in the same area to the benefit of both?
Without going into to too much detail there is sufficient empirical evidence to suggest that organisations that engage in co-operative actions with other organisations realise higher results.

Good idea again , yes I do cooperate with a few small companies maybe I need to go bigger

pedronomix

I ran a process manufacturing business for over 30 years and we bought in a lot of engineering services from machining, fabrication, to motion control and drives etc. I would be involved in capital expenditure on new machines but modification/improvements/repairs,component replacement and maintenance buy-ins would be refq'd/bid/selected by the engineering manager not by me as owner. They might review the project/bids with me on larger spends and it would be extremely rare for me to go against a selected vendor... I would always bitch on price though!.

These are the guys who had to deliver the job/project on time/budget, had I picked my guy.. my staff were off the hook.. " shudda used our selection!" etc etc. The boss always has the ultimate say, most work went to guys we worked with regularly, gave good service and quality and in return we got good work, fair pricing and as a good customer they went the extra mile for us when we were in trouble,. They earned our loyalty and trust, and thus became very difficult to displace.

Others were always knocking on the door looking for work and mostly only ever got in if they were able to get us out of a hole where we may have been let down or our existing supplier was full house with a long lead time. This is the magic moment, the one where your work at building an internal friendship/relationship etc gets you in the door. Many of our long term suppliers were brought on board in such a way. Much proper sales groundwork is done when there is no work to bid, just relationship building. There are no short term, fast result solutions, you just need to make time for this kind of pre-selling, have longer term plan and execute it.
The other great resource that should be leveraged is the employee of an existing customer company who moves job, he may well be able to "bring" you with him to his new position, happens lots where they "love" you.

We were a tier 2 or 3 level sub-supplier to the multi-nationals here for much our business and won customers such as Intel Dell, Prime Computer, Pfizer, Digital etc etc by using the same sales tactics ourselves.

Meritor

This thread reminds me a very good story..

A little boy went into a drug store, reached for a soda carton and pulled it over to the telephone. He climbed onto the carton so that he could reach the buttons on the phone and proceeded to punch in seven digits (phone numbers). The store-owner observed and listened to the conversation.
Boy: ‘Lady, Can you give me the job of cutting your lawn?
Woman: (at the other end of the phone line): ‘I already have someone to cut my lawn.’
Boy: ‘Lady, I will cut your lawn for half the price of the person who cuts your lawn now.’
Woman: I’m very satisfied with the person who is presently cutting my lawn.
Boy: (with more perseverance) : ‘Lady, I’ll even sweep your curb and your sidewalk, so on Sunday you will have the prettiest lawn in all of Palm beach , Florida.’
Woman: No, thank you.
With a smile on his face, the little boy replaced the receiver. The store-owner, who was listening to all this, walked over to the boy.
Store Owner: ‘Son… I like your attitude; I like that positive spirit and would like to offer you a job.’
Boy: ‘No thanks.’
Store Owner: But you were really pleading for one.
Boy: No Sir, I was just checking my performance at the Job I already have. I am the one who is working for that lady I was talking to!’

pedronomix

Meritor wrote: »

This thread reminds me a very good story..

A little boy went into a drug store, reached for a soda carton and pulled it over to the telephone. He climbed onto the carton so that he could reach the buttons on the phone and proceeded to punch in seven digits (phone numbers). The store-owner observed and listened to the conversation.
Boy: ‘Lady, Can you give me the job of cutting your lawn?
Woman: (at the other end of the phone line): ‘I already have someone to cut my lawn.’
Boy: ‘Lady, I will cut your lawn for half the price of the person who cuts your lawn now.’
Woman: I’m very satisfied with the person who is presently cutting my lawn.
Boy: (with more perseverance) : ‘Lady, I’ll even sweep your curb and your sidewalk, so on Sunday you will have the prettiest lawn in all of Palm beach , Florida.’
Woman: No, thank you.
With a smile on his face, the little boy replaced the receiver. The store-owner, who was listening to all this, walked over to the boy.
Store Owner: ‘Son… I like your attitude; I like that positive spirit and would like to offer you a job.’
Boy: ‘No thanks.’
Store Owner: But you were really pleading for one.
Boy: No Sir, I was just checking my performance at the Job I already have. I am the one who is working for that lady I was talking to!’

Great story. the kid was both a good businessman and a good salesman. He was managing the relationship with an important customer. Being a good "closer" does not amount to being a good salesperson. The hard part is to get to the real pitch/closing stage, most guys would have a decent chance of closing once they had won their way that far!

Two car salesmen, pedronomix and pedrobollix, sell cars. Nomix sells retail in the showroom but Bollix is fleet sales. The punters walk in and just engage with Nomix and he sells them, happy days.
Nobody ever comes in to the showroom for poor old Bollix and if he does not get off his arse and get out there and target/talk to people who buy fleets of cars, he will starve. If he is to survive in this tough B2B situation Bollix needs to the real deal, a complete salesman, not just a closer like Nomix!!

Which one is the OP?

pedronomix

OP, what did you hope to get out of posting on here? You seem to suggest that you have done everything you can do, yet you only engage selectively with the issues/questions posed. Therein lies the problem, and indeed the solution. A lack of meaningful engagement with your market.

Unbranded non-exclusive B2B products and services are a tough nut. Generally the competition are very good at what they do with competitive pricing, good service and decent quality and their offering is probably on average no better or worse than yours. I have no doubt that it is every bit as difficult for them to get inside you with your customers as it is for you with theirs.

Differentiate: The challenge is to make your company a "stand out" in your sector. You can only do this by being different and bringing some other value to the party.#
Like?: Engineering has a wide sectoral customer spread, so pick say 3 industries where you have good experience and your customers would be respected by their peers in those sectors. Make a customer wish list list to target (say 5 per sector) and set about making some personal contact with one person in each of them. Find out who they buy their widget making machinery from and befriend the suppler/agent etc. Use your knowledge to bring value, suggest using a different/better bearing/accumulator/transducer/proximity sensor/whatever. This is value that you can bring to the party. You are an expert in your industry, they are only expert in widgets! when you get a design to bid, can you make it better/cheaper by doing a bit of a redesign?, be a resource..add more value for no cost. This is how you become "their" go to guy in your sector.

Networking: Like the widget machinery suppliers above, find some retired respected industry pros. ( Linked-in could be a great source) Contact/befriend them and ask them to advise/help you... many will be charmed to be asked and may well be happy to "do their bit for Ireland" for a few bob to cover any expenses incurred. Retired industry pros have big big networks and a lifetime of contacts, plunder their networks. These guys' calls are always taken!

Business is full of intelligent hard-working people but winners also have other characteristics, they are smart and innovative. The smart hard-worker with a properly worked and executed plan wins every time.

Last word, get a sniper rifle and lose the blunderbuss!

lone hunter

pedronomix wrote: »

I ran a process manufacturing business for over 30 years and we bought in a lot of engineering services from machining, fabrication, to motion control and drives etc. I would be involved in capital expenditure on new machines but modification/improvements/repairs,component replacement and maintenance buy-ins would be refq'd/bid/selected by the engineering manager not by me as owner. They might review the project/bids with me on larger spends and it would be extremely rare for me to go against a selected vendor... I would always bitch on price though!.

These are the guys who had to deliver the job/project on time/budget, had I picked my guy.. my staff were off the hook.. " shudda used our selection!" etc etc. The boss always has the ultimate say, most work went to guys we worked with regularly, gave good service and quality and in return we got good work, fair pricing and as a good customer they went the extra mile for us when we were in trouble,. They earned our loyalty and trust, and thus became very difficult to displace.

Others were always knocking on the door looking for work and mostly only ever got in if they were able to get us out of a hole where we may have been let down or our existing supplier was full house with a long lead time. This is the magic moment, the one where your work at building an internal friendship/relationship etc gets you in the door. Many of our long term suppliers were brought on board in such a way. Much proper sales groundwork is done when there is no work to bid, just relationship building. There are no short term, fast result solutions, you just need to make time for this kind of pre-selling, have longer term plan and execute it.
The other great resource that should be leveraged is the employee of an existing customer company who moves job, he may well be able to "bring" you with him to his new position, happens lots where they "love" you.

We were a tier 2 or 3 level sub-supplier to the multi-nationals here for much our business and won customers such as Intel Dell, Prime Computer, Pfizer, Digital etc etc by using the same sales tactics ourselves.

exactly as I said before I need to meet the right man at the right time (get him out of that hole)