Abolish cash fares on Dublin Bus

LionelNashe

I think half-measures are not the way. We should seriously look at making public transport free for Dublin Bus, Dart, Commuter trains, and any other local services in the towns and cities around the country. It would mean less pollution and congestion, more employment for bus and train staff, and no costs for handling cash and tickets.

Peregrine

mhge wrote: »

If no one has to interact with the driver and you double the number of doors (or triple even, with the middle one being more convenient with wider passage) it would save plenty...

You don't seem to understand. This is Dublin. The DB is fleet is made up entirely of double deckers(and the three WVs), not articulates.



I'd like to see you put 3 or 4 doors on that..

Articulated buses don't really suit most Dublin Bus routes. There are certain corridors where BRT could be used and it's already being planned.

strandroad

Duffff-Man wrote: »

So where are passengers supposed to sit or stand if the was not two, but three doors?

DB do not have three doors?
But with the two doors a bus has, currently a passenger is funneled from the front lining up for the one interaction point, going to the back/upper deck to sit down and then alighting through middle door (if lucky), or back again to the front where all others wait to board.
Surely it would be much quicker if they could tag on through middle door, and alight through the same door. No lining up for the driver, two boarding/alighting streams instead of one, and no unnecessary forced wandering inside the vehicle.

Slippin Jimmy

mhge wrote: »

DB do not have three doors?
But with the two doors a bus has, currently a passenger is funneled from the front lining up for the one interaction point, going to the back/upper deck to sit down and then alighting through middle door (if lucky), or back again to the front where all others wait to board.
Surely it would be much quicker if they could tag on through middle door, and alight through the same door. No lining up for the driver, two boarding/alighting streams instead of one, and no unnecessary forced wandering inside the vehicle.

You suggested three or four doors. Again, if these were in place where would you like passengers to sit or stand?

strandroad

Nim wrote: »

You don't seem to understand. This is Dublin. The DB is fleet is made up entirely of double deckers(and the three WVs), not articulates.



I'd like to see you put 3 or 4 doors on that..

You don't get my point I'm afraid. Currently you have only one door to board. If you use both, you double the capacity (or possibly triple, since the middle door is not limited by the narrow passage the front door has).

VG31

Nim wrote: »

If you see drivers not using the centre doors as they were intended to be, I'd urge you to make a complaint.

If I did that I did that I'd be sending in a complaint ever 1-2 days!

Slippin Jimmy

mhge wrote: »

You don't get my point I'm afraid. Currently you have only one door to board. If you use both, you double the capacity (or possibly triple, since the middle door is not limited by the narrow passage the front door has).

How could you double or triple capacity with more doors????

Peregrine

mhge, have you ever been on a Dublin Bus?

mhge wrote: »

Surely it would be much quicker if they could tag on through middle door, and alight through the same door. No lining up for the driver, two boarding/alighting streams instead of one, and no unnecessary forced wandering inside the vehicle.

Except the boarding passengers at both doors would have to wait til the passengers alight whereas if you used one door for boarding and one for alighting (provided there's space at the bus stop), passengers could board and alight simultaneously. They both take the same amount of time, one is just more organised.

mhge wrote: »

You don't get my point I'm afraid. Currently you have only one door to board. If you use both, you double the capacity (or possibly triple, since the middle door is not limited by the narrow passage the front door has).

I'm afraid it's you who don't get the point. Every single one of posts were about using both doors on the GTs and SGs.

Triple doors on a 11 metre bus??

Even the VTs aren't long enough for three doors.

strandroad

Duffff-Man wrote: »

How could you double or triple capacity with more doors????

As in throughput. 20 passengers take X time to board through one door, and half of that through two (or even less, if the second on is wider).

VG31

At the moment passengers and drivers can't seem to get their heads around using the centre doors. Using the front doors ONLY for entry and the back doors only for exit is enough. The tag-on, tag-off system would work then.
If that works entry through the back door could be considered but certainly not now.

Slippin Jimmy

Duffff-Man wrote: »

How could you double or triple capacity with more doors????

capacity

1.
the maximum amount that something can contain.
"the capacity of the freezer is 1.1 cubic feet"

Duffff-Man wrote: »

You suggested three or four doors. Again, if these were in place where would you like passengers to sit or stand?

Care to answer my question for the third time?

strandroad

Nim wrote: »

mhge, have you ever been on a Dublin Bus?



Except the boarding passengers at both doors would have to wait til the passengers alight whereas if you used one door for boarding and one for alighting (provided there's space at the bus stop), passengers could board and alight simultaneously. They both take the same amount of time, one is just more organised.

I should ask you if *you* were ever on a DB if you call it organised Not every stop has people doing both, and even if it has, surely it's better if they can choose a more convenient door for them rather than to be forced to walk around?

I'm afraid it's you who don't get the point. Every single one of posts were about using both doors on the GTs and SGs.

Triple doors on a 11 metre bus??

Even the VTs aren't long enough for three doors.

Who says triple doors?
I only say that if you used the middle door for boarding, it would at least double (or perhaps even triple, since it's wider) the number of people boarding within a certain time.

Gavin "shels"

What needs to be stopped is shops now charging 50c to top up your leap card first and foremost! A bad deterrent!

VG31

Nim wrote: »

Triple doors on a 11 metre bus??

Even the VTs aren't long enough for three doors.

You probably could fit three doors on an Enviro 500 as the MAN Lion's City DDs in Berlin have three doors and they are only about 1m longer. They also have a big spiral staircase at the very back so people going upstairs use the front stairway and people going down use the back one (and the third door is directly opposite it).

LeinsterDub

Duffff-Man wrote: »

capacity

1.
the maximum amount that something can contain.
"the capacity of the freezer is 1.1 cubic feet"




Care to answer my question for the third time?

They mean decrease dwell time

LionelNashe

VG31 wrote: »

At the moment passengers and drivers can't seem to get their heads around using the centre doors. Using the front doors ONLY for entry and the back doors only for exit is enough. The tag-on, tag-off system would work then.
If that works entry through the back door could be considered but certainly not now.

To tag off though, the readers on the pole would have to be connected up to GPS tracking or something, and I strongly suspect that they're not. If you top up your Leap card online, you have to bring it to a Luas station or a train station before the card knows that it has credit, which suggests to me that the reader to the right of the front door of the bus is stand-alone.

This should be changed. It can't be that difficult, technically.

strandroad

Duffff-Man wrote: »

Care to answer my question for the third time?

Eh I explained already. I never suggested adding a physical third door, where do you take it from? Just making the other one available for boarding as it could more than double the number of people through.

Peregrine

mhge wrote: »

Who says triple doors?

Apologies, I read that wrong.

mhge wrote: »

I only say that if you used the middle door for boarding, it would at least double (or perhaps even triple, since it's wider) the number of people boarding within a certain time.

Like I said. It's the exact same as boarding through one door and exiting through the other.

Wider? I don't know and even if it was, it's not enough to make any difference.

VG31 wrote: »

You probably could fit three doors on an Enviro 500 as the MAN Lion's City DDs in Berlin have three doors and they are only about 1m longer. They also have a big spiral staircase at the very back so people going upstairs use the front stairway and people going down use the back one (and the third door is directly opposite it).

There's very little space between the wheels and the engine on the E500, that one metre makes all the difference for the MAN There was a tender up for tri-axles to be delivered next year but I see it's cancelled now, not sure what the story is with that.

mhge wrote: »

Just making the other one available for boarding as it could more than double the number of people through.

It would be the exact same as utilising both doors like the NTA/DB is trying to do at the moment.

You don't seem to be listening to any of the replies. Goodnight.

Dandelion6

Lau2976 wrote: »

Why would someone who uses the bus maybe two, three times a year carry around a leap card all the time?

Oh come on, it's not like they take up much space. I have plenty of cards I use less than two or three times a year (including an Oyster card FWIW).

The problem I see with a leap card-only system is that this is Dublin and we're sure to make a complete hames of it. Would agree with raising cash fares to encourage more usage of the leap, as well as a tag-on tag-off system, but allowing people to pay cash if they need to.

ThisRegard

stehyl15 wrote: »

You should buy a ticket in the shop

Nonsense. You could be nowhere near a shop, or getting a bus long after the shop has closed.

spurious

Lau2976 wrote: »

Why would someone who uses the bus maybe two, three times a year carry around a leap card all the time?

I go to London maybe once every two years and New York maybe once every five years. I have both an Oyster card and a Metro card.

ThisRegard

When you were in London and New York, even just once, you probably still got more subs in that one trip than say someone like I would get Dublin buses in a year, such is the nature of subway systems. It's not comparable to getting one bus into the city, and another home a few hours later.

There's no point in abolishing cash fares. There are a lot of stubborn people out there and the outcry of being forced to use a leap card wouldn't be worth it, and would be terrible press for DB.

A small thing that would make a huge difference in my opinion would be to have signage to direct people into the two queues. It's not even a suggestion at the moment, it's only etiquette that people who use the bus often seem to realise. I don't mind being held up in the cash queue by someone paying cash, or in the card queue with people using cards, but any time I get a bus from a city centre stop (so with a substantial queue), 99% of the time I'm stuck behind either someone who's in the card queue to try to skip the cash queue (which holds both queues up as the person stands there trying to get in at the driver), or a pensioner who has queued in the card queue because it's shorter but is demanding recognition from the driver before moving on.

If the queues were marked out, and drivers gave direction to people doing it wrong, pensioners would stop feeling the need to show their card, queue skippers would start queuing up properly, the card queue would be significantly faster, more people would sign up to leap cards out of frustration with the cash queue and the bus would move along more easily.

stehyl15

We could put ticket machines outside for when the shops are closed and put ticket machines at bus stops more than 1km from a shop

strandroad

Or have a phone app so you can buy your ticket and scan the code to tag on...

KingBrian2

hfallada wrote: »

People showing their free travel cards takes up a lot more time than saying €1.95 please on a leap card. I cant understand why some OAPs wait until the bus driver personally acknowledges their bus pass.

Potential reason for this is because people like us like to make sure we are not just strolling onto the bus without paying. I am very aware that it could be seen as trying to sneak on if you don't clearly show your pass. At least this is the reason I do it.

enda1

Sure leap cards are already redundant with the popularization of contacts debit and credit cards. They should be aiming to phase out leapcards for these payment methods

the groutch

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Potential reason for this is because people like us like to make sure we are not just strolling onto the bus without paying. I am very aware that it could be seen as trying to sneak on if you don't clearly show your pass. At least this is the reason I do it.

this wouldn't be a problem if they queued on the left like they're supposed to.

K.Flyer

stehyl15 wrote: »

You should buy a ticket in the shop

Read my post again, it was a "remote location", meaning... no shops or retail outlets!
And before you say I could have pre purchased a ticket, it was not a pre planned situation.

markpb

enda1 wrote: »

Sure leap cards are already redundant with the popularization of contacts debit and credit cards. They should be aiming to phase out leapcards for these payment methods

This will definitely happen but there are two major problems to be overcome. The first is that Irish banks are only issuing contactless debit cards, not contactless credit cards. The second is that most companies pay between 10c and 20c for accepting debit card transactions. That's very expensive for a €2 bus fare.

Also it's very hard to make a debit card do the things that Leapcard does like rebates, daily and weekly capping, multi-operator capping. London is only after launching that there after several years of development and testing, with a lot of co-operation from the banks and with a scale that means they can get better rates for accepting cards.