Primary school database

heldel00

lazygal wrote: »

If I was told this was being done with the intention to divest denominational schools and abolish the ludicrous patronage system and information wouldn't be kept for over 30 years to achieve this I might think about allowing the information to be collected. No one knows what its for, even the teachers who commented on this thread.

Ok twice throughout the thread you have mentioned this point.
Suggestions made previously have been exactly that, suggestions. Teachers are not privy to any secret information that is not available for you and the wider public to view.
I, as a teacher, am paid no more for giving out these forms, nor less for non-return of forms. I am handed forms by my principal, I hand them out and that is as far as my dealings with POD goes.
My job is to teach the 30 children sat in front of me.

Orion

heldel00 wrote: »

My job is to teach the 30 children sat in front of me.

I hope you teach them that "sat" is past tense and the correct usage in that sentence would be "sitting" :pac:

lazygal

heldel00 wrote: »

Ok twice throughout the thread you have mentioned this point.
Suggestions made previously have been exactly that, suggestions. Teachers are not privy to any secret information that is not available for you and the wider public to view.
I, as a teacher, am paid no more for giving out these forms, nor less for non-return of forms. I am handed forms by my principal, I hand them out and that is as far as my dealings with POD goes.
My job is to teach the 30 children sat in front of me.

The children sitting in front of you?
I know you aren't paid for this, it's something schools get a couple of quid for as far as I can gather, presumably so admin staff can handle it. You've said that this information will help with children who drop out of the system and the allocation of funding for special requirements, but they are only guesses on your part, not factual statements. I haven't a clue what this information will actually be used for. I'd like to think it might lead to a total overhaul of the silly and outdate segregation of children on the grounds of religion and gender, but I won't get my hopes up.

heldel00

Orion wrote: »

I hope you teach them that "sat" is past tense and the correct usage in that sentence would be "sitting" :pac:

A+ for observation Orion. Gold star for you Lazygal.
Could go back and edit my post but wouldn't give ye the satisfaction. ( and yeah I said ye instead of you and yeah instead of yes!!!)

Orion

My school has today as the deadline for return of forms. I love the irony considering today is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Privacy_Day[/url]Data Protection Day[/url]

newbie13

Today , we got a letter form to be fill up and return to school about my kids in Senior infant school.

Why does Department of Education need to know about my kid`s ethnic / cultural background and religion ??

Do I have right " Not to fill up & return " to school ?

Moonbeam

newbie13 wrote: »

Today , we got a letter form to be fill up and return to school about my kids in Senior infant school.

Why does Department of Education need to know about my kid`s ethnic / cultural background and religion ??

Do I have right " Not to fill up & return " to school ?

Yes you do.
I think alot of people will exercise this right.

It is not information that I mind giving out but I want to know the details of how it will be stored and what it will be used for before I give it to them.

constance tench

A simple webform to tell the Minister for Ed taking & storing kids’ sensitive data for decades is wrong

Please take 60 secs to tell the Dept of Education their POD harvesting of childrens' data is illegal and must stop:
http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/

pwurple

constance tench wrote: »

Please take 60 secs to tell the Dept of Education their POD harvesting of childrens' data is illegal and must stop:
http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/

How is any service supposed to operate effectively without data on who it is serving? Can you really complain about the standards of education provided, when you withhold information on the child getting that education?

I'm baffled why being open and upfront with this is in any way objectionable.

The amount of data people merrily provide on their tesco clubcards about what food they eat, what toothpaste they use, what specific toilet paper they use to wipe their arses and how much of that toilet paper they go through on a weekly basis... all linked to your name, address, dob and whatever profiling questions you filled out on the application form. All data crunched by tesco with the pitiful aim of selling you more stuff.

But providing far far less information to improve the education service for our children is baulked at?

constance tench

pwurple wrote: »

I'm baffled why being open and upfront with this is in any way objectionable.

Obviously...

pwurple wrote: »

The amount of data people merrily provide on their tesco clubcards about what food they eat, what toothpaste they use, what specific toilet paper they use to wipe their arses and how much of that toilet paper they go through on a weekly basis... all linked to your name, address, dob and whatever profiling questions you filled out on the application form. All data crunched by tesco with the pitiful aim of selling you more stuff.

I wouldn't recommend that either.

pwurple

constance tench wrote: »

I wouldn't recommend that either.

I know, I don't have any store cards. But I'd bet the people objecting to information being given to education providers have them.

Sure improving tesco's sales performance is way more important than improving our education system. Everyone knows that.

Orion

You need to read the thread again pwurple. The main objection people have is not providing the information - it's the security and retention of that information. I also don't like the bullying tactics that O'Sullivan is using and is also telling schools to ignore the law - which is not acceptable.

I don't have a problem with the information being requested - the DES has operated blindly too long and needs up to date info for planning and strategy. But I will not provide - or allow my childrens' information to be provided - until I am happy that it is secure and is not retained longer than is necessary. 30 years is a ludicrous amount of time to keep this data unless it's anonymised and compiled statistically. Keeping full personal data for that length of time is pure data mining and building up a database of citizen which I, for one, will not accept.

byhookorbycrook

Schools already submit data to allow for planning each year. The level of details is general,as in, how many children attending learning support, resource, EAL provision. The difference is that individual names and PPS numbers are not sought.

vicwatson

Is there a "closing" date on these forms, completed or not? as in a deadline?

newbie13

vicwatson wrote: »

Is there a "closing" date on these forms, completed or not? as in a deadline?

probably 6th Feb(this friday) . I am not filling up and return it anyways..

pwurple

Orion wrote: »

The main objection people have is not providing the information - it's the security and retention of that information.

I wonder do the records that are currently kept on every child in the school system have retention periods? If I went looking for my attendance records from when I was a 4 year old would they still be available? Probably.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Schools already submit data to allow for planning each year.

Are you talking about the details from the "rolla"?

The hand-written, riddled with errors, manually transcribed into the other giant principal's book every summer? That's a pure joke if that's what is currently used for planning.

lazygal

Well, given that schools do monitor attendance and anything over 20 days' absence has to be explained I'll give schools some credit for moving on from handwritten records. Even in my school in the 1980s/early 1990s there were computers, so I would give schools the benefit of the doubt that they've moved on from paper rollas at this stage. Maybe the teachers can confirm that they are able to keep accurate records. When I left secondary school 15 years ago digital attendace records were being used.

Orion

vicwatson wrote: »

Is there a "closing" date on these forms, completed or not? as in a deadline?

Schools give their own deadline to return it - my school was last Wednesday.

DES deadline is March - see first line of page two on this doc: http://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Primary-Online-Database-POD-/POD-Primary-Online-Database-POD-and-Primary-Online-Database-Implementation-Grant.pdf

byhookorbycrook

pwurple wrote: »

Are you talking about the details from the "rolla"?

The hand-written, riddled with errors, manually transcribed into the other giant principal's book every summer? That's a pure joke if that's what is currently used for planning.

No , I mean the numbers in each class, the number of travellers in the school, the numbers in special classes, the number of children receiving resource and those attending learning support. (But no names or pps numbers.) Schools must also submit the results of the standardised tests to the DES.

Roesy

lazygal wrote: »

Well, given that schools do monitor attendance and anything over 20 days' absence has to be explained I'll give schools some credit for moving on from handwritten records. Even in my school in the 1980s/early 1990s there were computers, so I would give schools the benefit of the doubt that they've moved on from paper rollas at this stage. Maybe the teachers can confirm that they are able to keep accurate records. When I left secondary school 15 years ago digital attendace records were being used.

Lazygal, the rolla still exists but we also have a database(Databiz) that we are expected to fill in every day. It keeps record of attendance and reasons for absences. I wish they'd get rid of the roll altogether. Tallying it at the end of terms is a pain.

evolving_doors

pwurple wrote: »

The census is every ten years. Next one due in 2016, so the data is nearly a decade out of date. I know neither of my children are on the last census, but they are starting school.

Number of births in irish hospitals is registered every year

Moonbeam

The Census in Ireland is not every 10 years - http://www.cso.ie/en/census/index.html

minnieq

How many of you will be consenting to giving your child's pps number?? We just received the form from our school and to be honest I feel bullied into giving my children's pps number..

lazygal

How much do schools get per child a year from the Dept? I'd be tempted to tell the school I'll match the contribution on the off chance that the ridiculous threat of withdrawing funding is actually carried out. It is nonsensical to link the funding of a child's education to something their parents do or do not do. Why 'punish' a child because his or her parents decline to share information?

constance tench

lazygal wrote: »

How much do schools get per child a year from the Dept? I'd be tempted to tell the school I'll match the contribution on the off chance that the ridiculous threat of withdrawing funding is actually carried out. It is nonsensical to link the funding of a child's education to something their parents do or do not do. Why 'punish' a child because his or her parents decline to share information?

About 151e per child.

The DES know that it is wholly unconstitutional to defund a child's education but are trying it on anyway.


More porkies from the Department highlighted in today's Irish Times:

t also confirmed that the department presented parents with a different set of ethnic choices to those used by the Central Statistics Office, despite stating on questionnaires that “categories are taken from the Census”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/multi-racial-oversight-on-school-database-questionnaire-admitted-1.2088774

constance tench

Q&A: Is the database of primary pupils a crucial planning tool or a data grab?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/q-a-is-the-database-of-primary-pupils-a-crucial-planning-tool-or-a-data-grab-1.2084239

lazygal

I'm really awkward so I'd probably call the Department's bluff and simply offer to pay €151 and see what the response was.

Orion

pwurple wrote: »

The census is every ten years. Next one due in 2016, so the data is nearly a decade out of date. I know neither of my children are on the last census, but they are starting school.

The last one was in 2011. It's every 5 years.

Orion

constance tench wrote: »

Q&A: Is the database of primary pupils a crucial planning tool or a data grab?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/q-a-is-the-database-of-primary-pupils-a-crucial-planning-tool-or-a-data-grab-1.2084239

The department has advised that schools should provide all the information they have, irrespective of whether they get approval or not.

This is illegal. I have written to my school expressly denying them permission to enter anything on the POD. If they do, or say they are going to anyway, I will be lodging a formal complaint with the ODPC.

byhookorbycrook

From the DES to a school querying the POd

"POD TEAM REPLY:

A PPS number is an individual’s unique identification number for all dealings with the Public Service, including Social Welfare, tax, education and health services.

Having the PPSN on the database will help ensure that there are no duplicate records in the system i.e. that two schools do not have the same child on their roll.

In the future we will be able to track pupils from early childhood education, to primary school and onto post-primary, which will allow us to ensure that every child in the State of compulsory school age is in education.

As there is no legal requirement to complete this form and return it, the parents are under no obligation to do so.

If they do not consent to their child’s data being entered on POD then they should inform your school in writing that they do not wish to have their child’s information entered on POD

All primary schools which are required to enter pupil data on POD are publicly funded and providers of a public service, namely education.

The information on POD will, from 2016/2017 academic year onwards, be used to underpin the payment of public funds and allocation of resources to primary schools, as is already the case at pre-primary, post-primary and third level education.

This may have funding and teacher allocation implications for your school going forward.



POD Team

POD Helpdesk – Statistics Section "

So give us the stats or we will withdraw funding!!!

And as far as I know there are no children aged 30 in post-primary so why the need to keep the info until then.