Future for my wife and I

K_P · 26-01-2015 11:03am

Hi OP. I've read all the posts on this but haven't weighed in until now. There's obviously a second part to your story of what happened at the weekend so by the time you post that up, who knows, what I'm about to say might be irrelevant.

Anyway, I might be completely wrong on this because I don't know you, I'm just getting a sense of you from here. But from my reading of this thread, two things strike me about you. The first is that you seem to be a little over-sensitive and the second is that you seem to get distracted from the issue at hand by fairly insignificant details. Neither of these are huge crimes, and not any reason for you to be in the unhappy marriage you find yourself in.

Your first few posts very much gave the impression of a marriage where you worked your ass off in a job you hated while your wife was left to raise your child all but single-handedly while also working outside the home. You've since clarified that that's not the case. Oh how you've clarified! I understand that you felt a bit misunderstood, but quite a lot of your posts are you feeling affronted at being seen as just a paycheck (you've brought that up numerous times when only one post ever mentioned that) or that you don't do housework. Even in your last post - you could have got to the point a lot sooner, but instead felt the need to list out all the housework you had done. I'm not saying this to insult you, but you have 7 pages of good advice from people. You haven't had sex with your wife in 4 YEARS, yet you're getting hung up on proving that you share the housework equally. That's not the point, that's not what's important.

This might seem insignificant, but I'm mentioning it because I would seriously be worried that whenever this thread ends, you will ignore the advice you've been given and instead remember it for how you proved posters here wrong and showed them up for their "man-bashing". The housework you do, the minor comment about your train that your wife said - these are largely irrelevant but you're getting distracted by them.

This problem is more than 4 years in the making, it will take a long time to fix. You of course also need buy-in from your wife, but as you're the one who seems more unhappy in this marriage, you're going to need to be the driving force behind it. You won't be that if you're so easily discouraged and distracted by the comments of strangers on the internet or meaningless jabs about trains.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 12:30pm

K_P wrote: »

Hi OP. I've read all the posts on this but haven't weighed in until now. There's obviously a second part to your story of what happened at the weekend so by the time you post that up, who knows, what I'm about to say might be irrelevant.

Anyway, I might be completely wrong on this because I don't know you, I'm just getting a sense of you from here. But from my reading of this thread, two things strike me about you. The first is that you seem to be a little over-sensitive and the second is that you seem to get distracted from the issue at hand by fairly insignificant details. Neither of these are huge crimes, and not any reason for you to be in the unhappy marriage you find yourself in.

Your first few posts very much gave the impression of a marriage where you worked your ass off in a job you hated while your wife was left to raise your child all but single-handedly while also working outside the home. You've since clarified that that's not the case. Oh how you've clarified! I understand that you felt a bit misunderstood, but quite a lot of your posts are you feeling affronted at being seen as just a paycheck (you've brought that up numerous times when only one post ever mentioned that) or that you don't do housework. Even in your last post - you could have got to the point a lot sooner, but instead felt the need to list out all the housework you had done. I'm not saying this to insult you, but you have 7 pages of good advice from people. You haven't had sex with your wife in 4 YEARS, yet you're getting hung up on proving that you share the housework equally. That's not the point, that's not what's important.

This might seem insignificant, but I'm mentioning it because I would seriously be worried that whenever this thread ends, you will ignore the advice you've been given and instead remember it for how you proved posters here wrong and showed them up for their "man-bashing". The housework you do, the minor comment about your train that your wife said - these are largely irrelevant but you're getting distracted by them.

This problem is more than 4 years in the making, it will take a long time to fix. You of course also need buy-in from your wife, but as you're the one who seems more unhappy in this marriage, you're going to need to be the driving force behind it. You won't be that if you're so easily discouraged and distracted by the comments of strangers on the internet or meaningless jabs about trains.

Exactly right. The 4 years without sex is the issue. On numerous times I've said this to my wife and she always deflects the conversation onto other stuff

Stavro Mueller · 26-01-2015 12:33pm

So what happened after your wife followed you into the kitchen? I assume what happened next isn't good and is just hammering home the point: what a bad place your marriage is in.

Tigger99 · 26-01-2015 12:34pm

K P hits the nail on the head. That sounds like an average evening to me OP, especially being a Sunday when people can be quite grumpy. I think you are reading too much into what happened. Just focus on the bigger picture.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 1:20pm

Tigger99 wrote: »

K P hits the nail on the head. That sounds like an average evening to me OP, especially being a Sunday when people can be quite grumpy. I think you are reading too much into what happened. Just focus on the bigger picture.

Listen. Thanks everyone but KP is right. I won't even go into part 2, I'm beyond that at this stage.
Bottom line is ....
1. No sex in 4 years,
2. I suggest baby sitter, wife says she's asked friend at work 3 times, who offered, overall lukewarm, even questioning, "sure does your friend and wife go out?
I say, "we have no relationship inside or outside house"
3. I say "what are our family plans". "Do we plan to have another child?". She says "what do you mean we? It's me who will be having it." I'll think about it and let you know.
Note I'm only paraphrasing. The exchanges weren't as blunt as above, but hopefully you get the general drift.

Stavro Mueller · 26-01-2015 1:28pm

You brought up having another child???? Sweet jeebus, are you mad? I think just about everyone here told you NOT to mention this. Talk about pouring petrol on the bonfire. And you know, even if by some miracle she let you near her, bringing another child into this marriage would be utter madness. Your relationship sounds like it's in deep sh*t and to be honest, I don't think it's going to be solved by you and her alone. Would she be open to going along to counselling?

strandroad · 26-01-2015 1:41pm

Listen. Thanks everyone but KP is right. I won't even go into part 2, I'm beyond that at this stage.
Bottom line is ....
1. No sex in 4 years,
2. I suggest baby sitter, wife says she's asked friend at work 3 times, who offered, overall lukewarm, even questioning, "sure does your friend and wife go out?
I say, "we have no relationship inside or outside house"
3. I say "what are our family plans". "Do we plan to have another child?". She says "what do you mean we? It's me who will be having it." I'll think about it and let you know.
Note I'm only paraphrasing. The exchanges weren't as blunt as above, but hopefully you get the general drift.

OP I think that counselling/mediation is your last and only hope. You don't seem to be able to communicate at all. You need a third person to translate for you both. Why would you even bring up another child if you have no relationship and no sex to start with?? Why would you focus on some off the cuff remarks that every family goes through on a normal day as if they were some huge obstacles?

There seems to be something massive that prevents you from thinking this through properly, I am not surprised that someone thought you're not writing in your first language. Are there some massive factors you're not talking about here in this situation? Do you have some hangups yourself, that prevent you from seeing things and reacting to them in an organised manner? The way you describe your wife doesn't even sound human, you see her as some sort of hostile presence in the house, why would you press for another child with her at all?

Please ask for external help, you're not going to help yourself...

Chemical Byrne · 26-01-2015 1:53pm

OP, are you trying to get your wife to leave you or make the situation worse?

Look, everybody here advised you that bringing up the subject of another baby would dynamite the situation, yet you paid no heed and brought it up and are now wondering why you received a bad reaction. You're going about this all wrong and are consistetnly ignoring the advice offered on thread. To me it is starting to seem like you are seeking validation for your own behaviour, ie listing out all the household chores you're doing now as if to expect some sort of pat on the shoulder. Your focus is in the wrong place.

At the end of the day you were fairly unsupportive and emotionally absent when your child was a baby and when she and your wife needed your support the most. Don't be codding yourself in thinking that all the housework in the world and acting the perfect dad now 5 years later is somehow going to make up for that, it isn't. You're living in cloud cukoo land.

Your wife had a pretty poor experience with your first child and, apart from your financial contribution, she essentially had to bring her up in the fashion of a single parent. At this point I'm not one bit surprised she's less than enthusiastic about having another baby lest your work gets busy again.

No offence intended, but to be frank about it you seem to be a bit tactless in the way you're dealing with this and my sympathy for your situation is starting to wane.

As the above poster says, the best you can do at this point is to try and coax her into attending counselling. Forget talking about babies, just forget it will you. At least until the marriage problems are resolved, then you can THINK about it.

Remember too she is 41, that's well into the realm of what is technically referred to as "geriatric pregnancy". It is risky and most health professionals would advise against it.

K_P · 26-01-2015 2:01pm

I agree with Stavro Mueller and mhge, in that I really think you need counselling. This is gone beyond the kind of situation that a date night would fix, especially when your wife seems so lukewarm on this idea anyway. Communication between you two seems completely off with deflection, defensiveness and misunderstandings on all sides. As mhge said, you need a translator, someone neutral who can dig through the layers of miscommunication and get at the heart of the issue.

Based on your wife's reaction to getting a cleaner or a babysitter which was basically "whatever, I don't care" then I think you need to be assertive with this. Some people might think this is a bit extreme, but I'd go so far as to book an appointment with a counsellor and then approach your wife. Tell her how unhappy you are, that the way your relationship has been for the last few years is not normal, that you love her (if indeed you do) and you want things to be better between you. Then tell her about the counselling - when, where. It's then up to her to be there with you. If she doesn't turn up, then you should still go ahead as I'm sure talking to a professional would do you good. I'm sure you'll need to work around this with regard to looking after your daughter, but surely there's an evening where she can go to a friend's house for an hour or so.

I think if you're not very very proactive with this then it'll be like the date night that will never happen - it'll be up to her to agree to it, you'll mention it every so often when you have a second without your daughter around, she'll deflect the issue, repeat, fade.

And as others have said, you need to leave the issue of having another child. First of all it would be madness to bring a child into this kind of relationship. You also need to forget about having sex for now. At the moment, it's hard to tell if your wife likes you, let alone loves you or wants to have another child with you. With counselling, you will have some chance of getting to the heart of these fundamental issues and either building on that together or going your separate ways.

Stavro Mueller · 26-01-2015 2:07pm

It's very easy to get distracted by what you did or didn't do in the past. What's done is done and you're probably reaping what you sowed. Maybe. The big problem you have now is that you are living under the same roof as a woman who doesn't seem to like or respect you, let alone love you. The way things are going at the moment, even if you cleaned the house from top to bottom, won the lottery jackpot, hired in a Michelin Star chef to cook the dinner, found a cure for cancer etc. she'd still be heading off to bed at 9.00 to avoid you.

What's not coming through here is what she thinks of all this. Has she had anything to say about the state of her marriage? Do you think she's buying into the idea of improving on things? I definitely think you need to seek out counselling as soon as possible. With your apparent track record to date of dealing with your wife on this issue, I fear you're just going to make an utter bags of things. Sort of like someone poking a slumbering lion in a zoo enclosure, then not knowing what to do when it wakes up and starts snarling.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 2:20pm

K_P wrote: »

I agree with Stavro Mueller and mhge, in that I really think you need counselling. This is gone beyond the kind of situation that a date night would fix, especially when your wife seems so lukewarm on this idea anyway. Communication between you two seems completely off with deflection, defensiveness and misunderstandings on all sides. As mhge said, you need a translator, someone neutral who can dig through the layers of miscommunication and get at the heart of the issue.

Based on your wife's reaction to getting a cleaner or a babysitter which was basically "whatever, I don't care" then I think you need to be assertive with this. Some people might think this is a bit extreme, but I'd go so far as to book an appointment with a counsellor and then approach your wife. Tell her how unhappy you are, that the way your relationship has been for the last few years is not normal, that you love her (if indeed you do) and you want things to be better between you. Then tell her about the counselling - when, where. It's then up to her to be there with you. If she doesn't turn up, then you should still go ahead as I'm sure talking to a professional would do you good. I'm sure you'll need to work around this with regard to looking after your daughter, but surely there's an evening where she can go to a friend's house for an hour or so.

I think if you're not very very proactive with this then it'll be like the date night that will never happen - it'll be up to her to agree to it, you'll mention it every so often when you have a second without your daughter around, she'll deflect the issue, repeat, fade.

And as others have said, you need to leave the issue of having another child. First of all it would be madness to bring a child into this kind of relationship. You also need to forget about having sex for now. At the moment, it's hard to tell if your wife likes you, let alone loves you or wants to have another child with you. With counselling, you will have some chance of getting to the heart of these fundamental issues and either building on that together or going your separate ways.

Firstly, the events I mentioned was a summary of the last 4 years. I did NOT recently mention having a child for obvious reasons. I'm going to avoid answering some of the assumptions in the last few points cos as KP said is not the core issue. However the idea of me being absent is simply not fair.
I'm going to contact a counsellor and hopefully my wife can engage with it.
Thanks for the advice but I think things are getting lost in translation on this forum and I think it's largely down to the fact that an online forum can only see so much of the picture.

Chemical Byrne · 26-01-2015 2:22pm

Do, I think counselling is the only way forward as there is a communication blockage between you two.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 2:51pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Do, I think counselling is the only way forward as there is a communication blockage between you two.

Yeah I'm going to do it. For definite this time. I contacted a counsellor by email last August but didn't follow through. Hoping against hope for a change.

Neyite · 26-01-2015 2:59pm

Even if your wife doesn't go to counselling initially, at least you might find ways of improving communication from your end, and straightening out your thoughts.

strandroad · 26-01-2015 3:07pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

However the idea of me being absent is simply not fair.

You say that, but your wife says openly that she basically brought the baby up alone. You have a fundamental, core difference here and it's not enough for you to say "this is how it is, end of". If you were so hands on as you say why does she feel this way? What was missing then for her to say that now? You need to reconcile your versions before you can move on anywhere.

This is just one example where you are not listening to the message she gives you (and possibly vice versa) and just disregard it, while in fact it's key to any progress.

Hopefully your counselling will allow you to work on all such issues and build something from there.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 3:36pm

mhge wrote: »

You say that, but your wife says openly that she basically brought the baby up alone. You have a fundamental, core difference here and it's not enough for you to say "this is how it is, end of". If you were so hands on as you say why does she feel this way? What was missing then for her to say that now? You need to reconcile your versions before you can move on anywhere.

This is just one example where you are not listening to the message she gives you (and possibly vice versa) and just disregard it, while in fact it's key to any progress.

Hopefully your counselling will allow you to work on all such issues and build something from there.

Yeah the point being absent is an issue we need to get clarity on. Despite all the doom and gloom I'm hopeful.

The Princess Bride · 26-01-2015 7:49pm

It looks like your wife switched off from wife mode into overprotective mother mode, after your daughter was born.
It sounds like she is overcompensating because of your daughter's illness, would I be right in saying she never says 'No' to her?
You both have to be on the same wavelength when it comes to parenting, otherwise your daughter will recognise this weakness and take advantage of the situation.

If your wife doesn't agree to couples counselling, then you'd benefit from going by yourself -the right counsellor would help you work through these issues;bear in mind, not every counsellor is good at what they do.

As for your wife, 4 years without intimacy?
I really cannot see any way back from this, it's a long time and it seems as if she's just not bothered by this.I'd say she's probably quite happy for things to continue as they are for the longterm.
If you were to be blunt and come out and actually ask her, what do you think she'd answer?
I don't think it's acceptable in a relationship, I know a lot of people who have accepted a decline in the sexual side of their marriages, they've been quite vocal about it too.
Each to their own, it wouldn't be for me.

Best of luck.

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 11:14pm

The Princess Bride wrote: »

It looks like your wife switched off from wife mode into overprotective mother mode, after your daughter was born.
It sounds like she is overcompensating because of your daughter's illness, would I be right in saying she never says 'No' to her?
You both have to be on the same wavelength when it comes to parenting, otherwise your daughter will recognise this weakness and take advantage of the situation.

If your wife doesn't agree to couples counselling, then you'd benefit from going by yourself -the right counsellor would help you work through these issues;bear in mind, not every counsellor is good at what they do.

As for your wife, 4 years without intimacy?
I really cannot see any way back from this, it's a long time and it seems as if she's just not bothered by this.I'd say she's probably quite happy for things to continue as they are for the longterm.
If you were to be blunt and come out and actually ask her, what do you think she'd answer?
I don't think it's acceptable in a relationship, I know a lot of people who have accepted a decline in the sexual side of their marriages, they've been quite vocal about it too.
Each to their own, it wouldn't be for me.

Best of luck.

I was hoping to have a good chat with wife this evening but by the time I finished homework, games and putting her to bed, it seems to be too late.
Believe it or not my wife viewed a house today. I've told her before we are not moving until we sort out how to live correctly in our current house.
4 years is a long time alright.

LegacyUser · 26-01-2015 11:54pm

Why does your wife want to move house? How come she viewed one without saying anything to you first?
You're not going to have a proper conversation on a school/work night, and not with your child in the house either. If you have a relative or friend that your child could stay with this Friday night& over the weekend, you need time alone, with no distractions or excuses

Stheno · 27-01-2015 12:02am

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I was hoping to have a good chat with wife this evening but by the time I finished homework, games and putting her to bed, it seems to be too late.
Believe it or not my wife viewed a house today. I've told her before we are not moving until we sort out how to live correctly in our current house.
4 years is a long time alright.

Did you consider that perhaps youre not included in her moving plans?

Stavro Mueller · 27-01-2015 12:14am

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I was hoping to have a good chat with wife this evening but by the time I finished homework, games and putting her to bed, it seems to be too late.

What's the bet this pattern will continue for quite a while. I get the impression your wife's not interested in engaging in any sort of conversation about the state of the marriage and is quite happy to continue shutting you out. Your only hope is to try and convince her to attend counselling, either by herself or with you. Though something tells me you'll have some job getting her anywhere near a counsellor.

Believe it or not my wife viewed a house today. I've told her before we are not moving until we sort out how to live correctly in our current house.

Is her plan to have you live with her another house if you move? This is coming across yet again as two people living separate lives under the same roof. She's not hearing your words and I bet she'll keep house-hunting regardless of your thoughts on this.

The Princess Bride · 27-01-2015 12:33am

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I was hoping to have a good chat with wife this evening but by the time I finished homework, games and putting her to bed, it seems to be too late.

You have one, 6 year old child.How long does homework, games and putting her to bed actually take?
Life doesn't stop when people have children, you just adapt your day to fit everything in, that includes time for each other after the child goes to bed.

Your wife is in denial,OP. Because life has been lived like this for 4 years +, she probably doesn't realise that there are any issues to be raised.

Eeden · 27-01-2015 1:04am

This relationship seems insane. You want another child; your wife wants to move house; but neither of you has secured agreement from the other on these major life issues.

Communication between you seems so damaged as to be actually non-existent.

December2012 · 27-01-2015 1:36am

You seem to be very point scoring, your recent post is very "wait till I tell you what she did after I did everything perfect!".

Stop trying to score points.

Are you trying to "win"? Or are you trying to fix your marraige?

Chemical Byrne · 27-01-2015 10:02am

December2012 wrote: »

You seem to be very point scoring, your recent post is very "wait till I tell you what she did after I did everything perfect!".

Stop trying to score points.

Are you trying to "win"? Or are you trying to fix your marraige?

It does seem that way, again as I said before you're listing out all the good things you're doing looking for a pat on the back either from us or your wife.

tinkerbell · 27-01-2015 10:25am

Borinis_Socks wrote:

I done some spring cleaning, lit the fire, done the dusting, hung out the clothes, brought in the clothes, went to the shop and got a long awaited haircut.
Wife and child came back, cooked the dinner, everything still ticking along nicely. Then I was sitting eating my dinner, child started staring into my plate, half playing, but was eventually crossing the line, so I reminded the child of the deal we made. Wife said "you don't need to keep saying it". "I reminded her we need to united on these things and if she wouldn't mind backing me up.". This has been a problem for years. No solidarity between us.

I'll stop now and call it Part 1, my hand is tired from the typing, the rest of the evening was a real eye opener. I'll type this later.
Let me emphasize, the chores and jobs in the house that I've mentioned above are nothing new, nor is the lack of solidarity in disciplining our child, nor is the lack if respect of everyone getting their tv time slice ( without an argument at least).

I honestly don't understand you OP. What was the purpose of listing out all these chores you did at the weekend? Were you expecting a gold medal? Big frickin deal that you lit the fire, did some laundry, etc. Those are normal every day tasks which need to be done, you should be doing them anyway.

You still haven't said what Part 2 was?

I think saying in front of your child that your wife needs to back you up is inappropriate given the situation - you should be saying these things in private, not in front of your child.

I think you have your head in the clouds tbh. Your wife pretty much raised her baby herself while you worked extra hours. And you sound like a nightmare to live with if you're as high and mighty as you come across in your posts "oh look I did the laundry, aren't I great" :rolleyes:

Your wife viewed a house without telling you. That pretty much says it all tbh.

Chemical Byrne · 27-01-2015 12:18pm

tinkerbell wrote: »

Your wife viewed a house without telling you. That pretty much says it all tbh.

Well on hearing this, I honestly feel the writing is on the wall.

OP have ye ever discussed moving or is this just out of the blue on her part?

But in fairness to you OP, if she is thinking of moving out at least she should have the decency to let you know beforehand rather than all this sneaking around and then refusing to talk to you about it.

Perhaps she finds you difficult to talk to? Have ye been able to talk earlier in the relationship or was communication always a difficulty?

Re the counselling as she seems to be the one who gives the "no time", too tired excuses always I think you should:
a) tell her that you want to arrange a counselling session for you both to talk about the problems
b) ask her to suggest a day/time that suits her schedule, and you will organise it all.
c) tell her you'll organise a babysitter
d) tell her you'd really like her to attend but if she will not at least make some type of effort to suggest a time to go you will have to just arrange an appointment and go by yourself and she can turn up if she wants.

This is about as easy as you can make it for her. All she has to do is find a spare few hours and turn up. Her reaction to this proposal will tell a lot about her feelings to be honest. The fact that you are taking the initiative to organise a counselor should scream to her that her husband is very unhappy and if she has any interest in salvaging the marriage or helping her spouse she will at least make some effort to go.
If she is totally indifferent to it or gives you the brush off by saying she is tired has no time, well then, I think that combined with her house hunting on her own says that she has already bailed out of the marriage mentally. No one is so busy that they can't find time to do a 90 minute session with weeks of notice.

If the latter scenario plays out, which hopefully it won't, I think all you have left to do is sit her down and tell her you've given her every opportunity to air and resolve any grievances she might have and ask her does she honestly want to continue the marriage or does she want to get a divorce. Things have to come to a head sooner or later like. Ye are not living right and there's no point torturing yerselves for the next 30 or 40 years if ye are not meant to be. Look, even for yourself OP, if you want another child there are 100s of 30 something women out there looking for someone decent to have a baby with. Don't find yourself in your seventies looking back in regret saying "I should have xyz"

Borinis_Socks · 27-01-2015 8:03pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Well on hearing this, I honestly feel the writing is on the wall.

OP have ye ever discussed moving or is this just out of the blue on her part?

But in fairness to you OP, if she is thinking of moving out at least she should have the decency to let you know beforehand rather than all this sneaking around and then refusing to talk to you about it.

Perhaps she finds you difficult to talk to? Have ye been able to talk earlier in the relationship or was communication always a difficulty?

Re the counselling as she seems to be the one who gives the "no time", too tired excuses always I think you should:
a) tell her that you want to arrange a counselling session for you both to talk about the problems
b) ask her to suggest a day/time that suits her schedule, and you will organise it all.
c) tell her you'll organise a babysitter
d) tell her you'd really like her to attend but if she will not at least make some type of effort to suggest a time to go you will have to just arrange an appointment and go by yourself and she can turn up if she wants.

This is about as easy as you can make it for her. All she has to do is find a spare few hours and turn up. Her reaction to this proposal will tell a lot about her feelings to be honest. The fact that you are taking the initiative to organise a counselor should scream to her that her husband is very unhappy and if she has any interest in salvaging the marriage or helping her spouse she will at least make some effort to go.
If she is totally indifferent to it or gives you the brush off by saying she is tired has no time, well then, I think that combined with her house hunting on her own says that she has already bailed out of the marriage mentally. No one is so busy that they can't find time to do a 90 minute session with weeks of notice.

If the latter scenario plays out, which hopefully it won't, I think all you have left to do is sit her down and tell her you've given her every opportunity to air and resolve any grievances she might have and ask her does she honestly want to continue the marriage or does she want to get a divorce. Things have to come to a head sooner or later like. Ye are not living right and there's no point torturing yerselves for the next 30 or 40 years if ye are not meant to be. Look, even for yourself OP, if you want another child there are 100s of 30 something women out there looking for someone decent to have a baby with. Don't find yourself in your seventies looking back in regret saying "I should have xyz"

Again I'm sticking to the main issue, lack of sex in 4 years. I will discuss with counsellor.
Some assumptions made are bizarre by some posters. But in fairness it can happen on online forums. Some advice is great. I'm not going to get bogged down in detail and I'll try to resolve the main issue. Thanks again.

bee06 · 27-01-2015 8:37pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Again I'm sticking to the main issue, lack of sex in 4 years. I will discuss with counsellor.
Some assumptions made are bizarre by some posters. But in fairness it can happen on online forums. Some advice is great. I'm not going to get bogged down in detail and I'll try to resolve the main issue. Thanks again.

I'm sorry but your main problem is you can't communicate with each other. That's why you haven't had sex in 4 years, that's why you have completely different ideas of future plans, that's why ever small remark on both sides are blown out of proportion.

MouseTail · 27-01-2015 8:56pm

The lack of physical intimacy is not the main issue in your marriage, the lack of emotional intimacy is. Without the will on both your parts to address the latter, you cannot hope to resume a sexual relationship.
I wish both you and your wife well, you are both in a very lonely position and face difficult decisions.

Borinis_Socks · 27-01-2015 9:46pm

MouseTail wrote: »

The lack of physical intimacy is not the main issue in your marriage, the lack of emotional intimacy is. Without the will on both your parts to address the latter, you cannot hope to resume a sexual relationship.
I wish both you and your wife well, you are both in a very lonely position and face difficult decisions.

Agreed. Even if we had sex now it wouldn't fix the overall issue. In fact it would just paper over the cracks.

Borinis_Socks · 27-01-2015 10:07pm

MouseTail wrote: »

The lack of physical intimacy is not the main issue in your marriage, the lack of emotional intimacy is. Without the will on both your parts to address the latter, you cannot hope to resume a sexual relationship.
I wish both you and your wife well, you are both in a very lonely position and face difficult decisions.

As one poster said correctly. When our daughter was born my wife became a mother and stopped being a partner.
Because of our daughters asthma etc, this is understandable, but I just hoped and almost prayed, that my partner would come back eventually. It's all I really want. Year after year I hoped that child would settle down with health and that partner would return. Now I think only one of those is happening.
I know when you have children the previous days of romance are over. But I would love to see just glimpses of the woman I fell in love with. Just to hold hands at night and feel as one. I still believe, because I know she is the one for me. It's just that my faith had taken a battering and needs some help, maybe from a counsellor.

Borinis_Socks · 27-01-2015 10:16pm

Andreward wrote: »

Your perception if reality is warped, this woman doesn't fancy you. Ask her outright if she is attracted to you, let us know what her answer is.

Well it's this perception that was once upon a time my reality.

LegacyUser · 27-01-2015 10:41pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I know when you have children the previous days of romance are over. But I would love to see just glimpses of the woman I fell in love with. Just to hold hands at night and feel as one. I still believe, because I know she is the one for me. It's just that my faith had taken a battering and needs some help

OP, instead of bickering over housework, THIS is what you need to communicate to your wife, plain and simple. Say, if you wrote the above paragraph in a note or a card, allow her time to process what you've written, and await her response???

There's a truth in the saying that men need to have sex to feel loved, whereas women need to feel loved to have sex. At the moment, there's neither love nor sex between you, so **BOTH** of you must be at a loss. Remember that.

unreg999 · 28-01-2015 1:42am

Borinis_Socks wrote:

Again I'm sticking to the main issue, lack of sex in 4 years. I will discuss with counsellor. Some assumptions made are bizarre by some posters. But in fairness it can happen on online forums. Some advice is great. I'm not going to get bogged down in detail and I'll try to resolve the main issue. Thanks again.

I can't believe that after all you have said... all the hurt, pain & loneliness between the two of you that your main priority is still getting laid... it's screams of insensitivity & lack of compassion/empathy to both your wife & yourself to be honest...
Really if that's all your care about you should SERIOUSLY think about doing both of you a massive favor & ending it now... as hard as that may be, at least you are both still relatively young!

Borinis_Socks · 28-01-2015 9:07am

kjhljhl wrote: »

OP, instead of bickering over housework, THIS is what you need to communicate to your wife, plain and simple. Say, if you wrote the above paragraph in a note or a card, allow her time to process what you've written, and await her response???

There's a truth in the saying that men need to have sex to feel loved, whereas women need to feel loved to have sex. At the moment, there's neither love nor sex between you, so **BOTH** of you must be at a loss. Remember that.

Thanks I'll give it a go. It's how I feel. Warped perception of reality or not.

Lovely Bloke · 28-01-2015 10:04am

unreg999 wrote: »

I can't believe that after all you have said... all the hurt, pain & loneliness between the two of you that your main priority is still getting laid... it's screams of insensitivity & lack of compassion/empathy to both your wife & yourself to be honest...
Really if that's all your care about you should SERIOUSLY think about doing both of you a massive favor & ending it now... as hard as that may be, at least you are both still relatively young!

ffs, it's not about "getting laid" it's about making love to his wife, the woman he loves.

Sex is an integral part of any marriage or stable, loving relationship. Without it you are, at best, friends. At worst, a couple of people living together with nothing in common apart from the third person with half of each of your genes.

Chemical Byrne · 28-01-2015 10:23am

Boris if you go down the road of saying that your main problem in the relationship is a lack of sex then you are on a hiding to nothing. It will be pressure on her and push her away even further as it will make her think, quite rightly, that you are not actually thinking of her but thinking of your knob.

From your last post I'm still picking up a subtle vibe that you resent your child and her health problems for coming between you and your wife. Where were you when she was sick? This whole problem is mostly of your own making. You've taken' the wrong from day 1. A baby does not need loads of surplus paychecks, they need a father to care for them first off.

As you've been told here time and time again, your priorities are all back the front and upside down. You're consistently ignoring sound advice and wondering why you're getting nowhere.

You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.

pwurple · 28-01-2015 11:40am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

ffs, it's not about "getting laid" it's about making love to his wife, the woman he loves.

Sex is an integral part of any marriage or stable, loving relationship. Without it you are, at best, friends. At worst, a couple of people living together with nothing in common apart from the third person with half of each of your genes.

She's not his loved wife though in her head... As soon as she had the child he checked out, and she became the house skivvy by default. They are strangers now. Several years later he wants it back the way it was by magic.

OP, the way she is talking to you is telling it all. She has huge resentment built up, it's to the level of not even liking you. Who has sex with someone they don't like?

You'd be better off starting off from scratch again. Please get the counselling if you want your marriage to survive.

Penny Tration · 28-01-2015 11:47am

Just want to point out - maybe the way you communicate is causing issues.

In this thread, any perceived criticism or slight aimed at you, you immediately go on the defence and tell everyone they're wrong, you've done x, y and z for your family.

If you're speaking like that to your wife, maybe that's why she's not receptive?

Borinis_Socks · 28-01-2015 12:36pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Boris if you go down the road of saying that your main problem in the relationship is a lack of sex then you are on a hiding to nothing. It will be pressure on her and push her away even further as it will make her think, quite rightly, that you are not actually thinking of her but thinking of your knob.

From your last post I'm still picking up a subtle vibe that you resent your child and her health problems for coming between you and your wife. Where were you when she was sick? This whole problem is mostly of your own making. You've taken' the wrong from day 1. A baby does not need loads of surplus paychecks, they need a father to care for them first off.

As you've been told here time and time again, your priorities are all back the front and upside down. You're consistently ignoring sound advice and wondering why you're getting nowhere.

You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.

Now hold it. I've been accused for being defensive on here. But I have to defend myself in response to this post. In fact I won't. Instead can you tell me where I've said.......
Q1. The main problem is the lack of sex.
A1. That's the effect. What causing the lack of sex is the lack of intimacy which we need to work on.
Q2. Where was I when my child was sick?
A2. Not looking for a reward here but purely for clarity. I was caring for it as any good father does. Show me where I've stated otherwise.
Q3. Your child doesn't need surplus paychecks.
A3. Where have I said that I only provide a paycheck? That was just some comment some other poster made.
Most of the advice I've got on here has been great, but please can some posters do a double take on some of the assumptions they're making about me.
I think these assumptions stem from a few times I had to work late due to serious pressure at work. I was threatened that I might be fired due to some people complaining about me. 6 months after that I told my manager I needed time off and even broke down in his presence and so did he. He told me he nearly lost his kids and wife and he was never going to put them second again.
These people on here who are making loose comments on here about paychecks, knobs, caring for a sick child are either making false assumptions or have some baggage themselves.
Now I feel I've battled through those dark days and am now happy in my career.
I'm also glad to say that despite that sh1t phase in my life, I can look in the mirror and say, I did my best and hopefully things can turn around family wise as well.

Penny Tration · 28-01-2015 12:46pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Now hold it. I've been accused for being defensive on here. But I have to defend myself in response to this post. In fact I won't. Instead can you tell me where I've said.......
Q1. The main problem is the lack of sex.
A1. That's the effect. What causing the lack of sex is the lack of intimacy which we need to work on.
Q2. Where was I when my child was sick?
A2. Not looking for a reward here but purely for clarity. I was caring for it as any good father does. Show me where I've stated otherwise.
Q3. Your child doesn't need surplus paychecks.
A3. Where have I said that I only provide a paycheck? That was just some comment some other poster made.
Most of the advice I've got on here has been great, but please can some posters do a double take on some of the assumptions they're making about me.
I think these assumptions stem from a few times I had to work late due to serious pressure at work. I was threatened that I might be fired due to some people complaining about me. 6 months after that I told my manager I needed time off and even broke down in his presence and so did he. He told me he nearly lost his kids and wife and he was never going to put them second again.
These people on here who are making loose comments on here about paychecks, knobs, caring for a sick child are either making false assumptions or have some baggage themselves.
Now I feel I've battled through those dark days and am now happy in my career.
I'm also glad to say that despite that sh1t phase in my life, I can look in the mirror and say, I did my best and hopefully things can turn around family wise as well.

I'm sorry, but this kind of attitude isn't going to fix your marriage.

People are commenting based on how YOU are presenting yourself.

You need to step back and think that if people online are thinking these things, when we only know what you allow us to be privy to, how much worse a light is your wife seeing you in?

You need to get off attack mode, apologise to your wife, and ask her what you can do as a couple to fix it, if she wants it fixed. No excuses, no defences, no explanations. An apology and a request for information on what you can do, and ask her does she even want to fix things

28-01-2015 1:06pm

You've repeatedly stated in black and white the main issue for you is lack of sex.
You were quoted earlier in the page saying it. Once you're pulled up on it you flip flop again.
Frankly if this is how you communicate with your wife I'm not surprised there is a problem.
You need to let go of all the justifications and excuses and I'm never wrongs and have a long hard think about it. Try again to book the counselling. Stop blaming your wife and be prepared to acknowledge that maybe you had good intentions and maybe they came across badly. And stop harping on about the sex and sneaking condom packets into suitcasesof someone you can barely talk to. Ask her what SHE wants and don't even think of reacting with "but".

power pants · 28-01-2015 2:07pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

As one poster said correctly. When our daughter was born my wife became a mother and stopped being a partner.
Because of our daughters asthma etc, this is understandable, but I just hoped and almost prayed, that my partner would come back eventually. It's all I really want. Year after year I hoped that child would settle down with health and that partner would return. Now I think only one of those is happening.
I know when you have children the previous days of romance are over. But I would love to see just glimpses of the woman I fell in love with. Just to hold hands at night and feel as one. I still believe, because I know she is the one for me. It's just that my faith had taken a battering and needs some help, maybe from a counsellor.

yet you asked for another baby?

K_P · 28-01-2015 2:31pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Instead can you tell me where I've said.......
Q1. The main problem is the lack of sex.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Again I'm sticking to the main issue, lack of sex in 4 years.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Q2. Where was I when my child was sick?
A2. Not looking for a reward here but purely for clarity. I was caring for it as any good father does. Show me where I've stated otherwise.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I won't deny that I could do more but I'm sure I'm a good Dad who chips in.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Let's be clear, while my wife was carrying the can to a certain extent, I was far from a layabout and this saddens me a little.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Q3. Your child doesn't need surplus paychecks.
A3. Where have I said that I only provide a paycheck? That was just some comment some other poster made.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I made the point earlier about being financially comfortable before, because it reassures me that I can walk away from jobs that threaten me and my family's happiness in the future. The money itself does not guarantee happiness but I think it gives us options.

Honestly OP, I'm not pulling those quotes out to have a go at you, but you ARE coming across as inconsistent which is why posters here are getting a bit frustrated with you and you in turn are getting frustrated with them. If this pattern of communication is replicated within your marriage, then I can absolutely see why there are problems.

Have you arranged counselling?

Borinis_Socks · 28-01-2015 4:49pm

K_P wrote: »

Honestly OP, I'm not pulling those quotes out to have a go at you, but you ARE coming across as inconsistent which is why posters here are getting a bit frustrated with you and you in turn are getting frustrated with them. If this pattern of communication is replicated within your marriage, then I can absolutely see why there are problems.

Have you arranged counselling?

I have arranged counselling and to be honest I'm getting sidetracked on here.
Just let me say that your quotes show me in two lights. Lack of sex is the effect but lack of intimacy is the cause.

Borinis_Socks · 28-01-2015 4:55pm

bluewolf wrote: »

You've repeatedly stated in black and white the main issue for you is lack of sex.
You were quoted earlier in the page saying it. Once you're pulled up on it you flip flop again.
Frankly if this is how you communicate with your wife I'm not surprised there is a problem.
You need to let go of all the justifications and excuses and I'm never wrongs and have a long hard think about it. Try again to book the counselling. Stop blaming your wife and be prepared to acknowledge that maybe you had good intentions and maybe they came across badly. And stop harping on about the sex and sneaking condom packets into suitcasesof someone you can barely talk to. Ask her what SHE wants and don't even think of reacting with "but".

Let's be clear in relation to the condoms.
In 2012 my wife was speaking to me.
We went away on a family holiday. I brought a pack of condoms, just in case.
Please tell me this is the 21st century.

Penny Tration · 28-01-2015 4:59pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Let's be clear in relation to the condoms.
In 2012 my wife was speaking to me.
We went away on a family holiday. I brought a pack of condoms, just in case.
Please tell me this is the 21st century.

The point you're missing -

2012. It had been at least one year, maybe 2, since you had had sex.

You stuck condoms in the bag.

When your wife found them, it would look to her like a very crude way of saying you want sex.

You should have DISCUSSED it with her, not lobbed condoms in the bag!

You seem to want to do nothing here but defend yourself. You fail to see that the picture people here have of you is the picture you are painting. Nobody else, you.

You need to work on your communication skills. If you act with your wife (when she disagrees with you) half as badly as you react to posters here, you have a long, lonely marriage ahead of you.

K_P · 28-01-2015 4:59pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I have arranged counselling and to be honest I'm getting sidetracked on here.
Just let me say that your quotes show me in two lights. Lack of sex is the effect but lack of intimacy is the cause.

To be fair, they're your quotes, not mine. I picked them out as you specifically challenged another poster as though you had never said these things. If the quotes show you in two lights, it's because you've presented yourself in that way.

I'll bow out here I think. I'm glad you've arranged for counselling and I do wish you all the very best, OP. I think you've a long road ahead but well done on taking the first step.

Dial Hard · 28-01-2015 4:59pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Q2. Where was I when my child was sick?
A2. Not looking for a reward here but purely for clarity. I was caring for it as any good father does.

It?

Seriously, OP, I don't know what more you expect to get from this thread? You've had ten pages of people telling you your marriage is so far up shit creek you can't even see it anymore, yet you're completely fixated on enumerating all the things you did for your wife over the years (none of which are particularly awe-inspiring, it has to be said), moaning about the fact that she won't sleep with you and complaining about the posters you think are "attacking" you.

Honestly, I think you need to just close this thread and get yourself in front of that counsellor ASAP.

Future for my wife and I

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