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To Connemara and Beyond ...
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Sorry to hear didn't go to plan, not really a course to have bad day on, tough enough on our good days. There is always Dublin to get your PB, nice and flat by your standards, recover well.
Many thanks GK - not sure if it'll be Dublin again. I definitely want to give it another shot at some stage, but I might consider a race back home (not just for flatness reasons!)
+1 to this N, you have time to recover and build up gradually now to tackle Dublin again if you wished. I would recommend a different plan to the boards one, for my second time out I was going to use the boards one again but was delighted to have gone with something different (Running Shoe Guru) and felt much more comfortable running at marathon pace with that. Really fair play on getting it done though, sounds like a very tough day.
Yes - I am indeed on the lookout and doing some research. Thanks for the tip.Bungy Girl wrote: »A great report, Nop, and a very honest one too. Makes me appreciate, not for the first time, the short-lived pain of the track compared to the sustained agony of 26.2
I can't say I understand the sub-4 pacers' strategy. It's a beast of a course with a tough second half for sure, but that much of a positive split...? What were they thinking ?
Looking at the splits you were on for a super PB up until the hamstring issue so cut yourself some slack, put the feet up for a bit, and come up with the next plan.
Very well done for the guts and determination it took to complete the race.
Thank you BG - I was surprised too, but I guess these lads knew what they were doing (it was immediately clear, both effort-wise and using the watch).
Looking at the results, I noticed that: Many folks that were ahead of us at half-time didn't manage a sub-4, and very little folks that were behind us did. Then again, I also noticed that despite my ugly positive split, I actually improved my position in the field - so a lot of people went out too fast and paid an even heavier price. Oh well.hillsiderunner wrote: »Sorry to read all that, sounds like a very tough day. That old saying about not underestimating the marathon comes to mind. Well done on toughing out that last stretch.
http://running.competitor.com/2013/09/training/how-to-beat-marathon-muscle-cramps_84843
(though have yet to experience the cramp monster, so can't comment on the suggestions)
Thank you HSR, my running buddies actually suggested something very similar while discussing this on the way back. Something to look into..Sounds like you were having a good day until the cramp, Nop... such a pity. Is there anything you can do in training/prep to prevent or offset the cramp??
Fair play to you for grinding it out, well done!
Thanks Anna - yes, working on it!Wubble Wubble wrote: »Excellent work and a fine report N. Sorry it didn't quite turn out as planned. I'll keep it all in mind for when my Connemarathon turn comes.
Thanks WW!Sorry to hear that you had such a tough day in Conn Nop.
Hopefully you can sort out the crampng issue and then you will get the marathon result that you deserve.
Thanks L!Great report Nop and its a pity about that damn cramp. its a really hard one to call pace wise. We will both be wiser for next time;)
Oh - thank you ToriV! Such a pity I never got to meet you. We only arrived 15-20 minutes before the start and I did look out for a bright-red t-shirt, I didn't notice it - and then we were off. You ran a smashing race yourself, really well done!0 -
Great report Nop and very honest it's such a tough course I hear so well done for finishing. It's really hard when you've put in all the training not to get your goal but sure that's why we keep running and live to tell the tale. Enjoy the recovery 0
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Well folks, I am working on a sure-fire way to break your parkrun PBs. I'll file for a patent soon, but here's a sneak preview
- Sign-up for a marathon. An optional couple of weeks of denial, heavy drinking and subsequent guilt is allowed.
- Select a respectable marathon training plan, at least 16 weeks, and put in the required hours and miles.
- Run said marathon as hard as you can.
- Two-three weeks of guilt-free eating (and drinking!) all around you - no focus on running at all.
- Rock up to the local parkrun to "just stretch the legs". Success guaranteed!
You have to really pretend that these first 3 steps are for real, e.g. make a big deal about the marathon, fly in mates from Netherlands, get massages, taper properly, write existential posts on boards, etc.
I followed the above steps with great success in 2015 to my current parkrun PB (21:42 for Shanganagh). Most parkrun-attempts since have been ran with the young fella and were a little slower, or as fast-ish finishes of long runs so never near a real effort. The one time the young fella really hammered it and even took the family record, I couldn't follow him over the last 4-500m.
Keen readers of this log must have noticed that I have gone through the first 3 steps of this plan with great gusto. I have since attacked step-4, (I really enjoyed this step, especially the nutrional part), and cleverly disguised some lame mileage as either "a few km at the junior parkrun" or a few "5 recovery / easy miles" sessions.
This morning, on a whim, I arrived at step 5, although in retrospect, I didn't even realize it.
Sat May 6: Shanganagh Parkun @ 21m25s (4:17 min/km, 6:53 /mi) (course PB!)
Real life meant that I had just about an hour this morning for some weekend running so the local parkrun beckoned. I have some vague plans to do the Dunshaughlin 10k in June so I thought I'd see if I could get some km's in at 10k pace (which stands at about 4:30 min/km (7:15 /mi)). It seems forever since I ran anything "fast" (relatively speaking, of course), so I just thought to see how it felt.
As I left my house to jog up, my neighbor appeared and we walked up while nattering away (he said he needed all his energy for the parkrun, so didn't want to jog). I did run the first 1km lap as warm-up as it was windy and absolutely freezing. I lined up a few rows from the front and off we went.
Some dude set-off at record speed (he'd go and break the course record, actually!) and the rest of the field settled in behind him. A volunteer called out the first km split as 4:23 so that felt about right. I settled in a little group for the second km, and never checked the watch again. Halfway through the third km, I noticed that my companions were slowing down a notch and I remembered a tip from Krusty's epic Rotterdam report, to keep working up the field to the next group. I left them behind, settled into another little group, and also left them at the 3km mark. The effort felt tough but manageable. Another group was caught at the 4km mark at which point I had a female runner in view who typically is 1-2 minutes ahead of me. She must have had a bad day as I was closing in and eventually overtook her. Coming into the finishing bend, there was one gent ahead of me and I thought "ah sure, see if you can get him", got him with about 100m to go, and finished. Got tokened, scanned, thanked the volunteers and jogged home. As I uploaded the run from my watch I realized I had successfully executed step 5 - the time eventually came in as 21:25.
Quite chuffed, if I may say so, my second fastest 5k (JB'16 remains the fastest and only sub-21 effort) on quite a blustery day (certainly not ideal for running) and it definitely felt like there was more in the tank. In fact, I didn't check my watch even once (DG will be pleased) and only had a reasonable finish-effort because I had some runners to target.0 -
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Epic race timed run report
Not sure what your future plans are, but you seem to do really well over shorter distances (bonus no cramping!)
Yes, the no-cramping is a bonus! No real plans yet, maybe Dunshaughlin.Hold on... does this mean the first 3 steps didn't really happen????
...and why does step 5 sound so easy for you? Are you leaving out loads of pain and self doubt???
And well done!
Unfortunately, parts 1-3 must really happen. That is the beauty of this plan. You must really believe in these steps, prepare, run it like a madman, be properly deflated when you miss your goals, etc, etc. Only then, will it work. And yes, step 5 felt pretty easy, actually, certainly no self-doubt and only "good" pain.Nice one Nop, recovery obviously going well, nice relaxed approach paid off.
Yes, indeed! Thanks GK.hillsiderunner wrote: »Congrats, nop, now a week more of aimless running here and there, and go again and push next weekend!
Plenty more aimless running planned, HSR! And a hilly parkrun with the young fella on Saturday, is the plan at least.0 -
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Thanks folks, really appreciate the feedback. I'm thinking along the same lines.
I think I have seen the video you mentioned, Diego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08lmp5zQAmA
The athlete he is talking has a very similar "overstriding" heel-strike at a lower stride frequency. See this pic during the local parkrun.
So, I went out earlier this week with a metronome app on my phone, set to 170 spm (similar 10% increase as in the video, not cranking it all the way to 180), and, well, suffice it to say it needs a lot of practice. I found it next to impossible to keep to the faster cadence (plus running with a phone in your hand is a total pain). I had to switch it off after a while because I kept being out of sync and got increasingly frustrated
So, work in progress. I do think it is worth pursuing, because the "before" posture of the guy in the video is very similar to mine, and I have to say, it doesn't look good.
(can I just mention that I did beat those three fellas behind me in the picture?)
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My own stride rate (cadence) isn't perfect – somewhere in 170s last time I checked. I think there's a bit of a dispute about whether 180 is really the perfect number, but I did manage to get up closer to that number by practicing on the treadmill a few years ago. I think maybe gradual change is best - going from 150s to 180 is too drastic. Maybe just pay attention to it for the odd km on your training runs, counting off against your watch, concentrating on shorter strides. I'd try to get to 160 first, then gradually work your way up over time.I missed that 5k, well done! And you looked so 'meh' when I asked you on Tuesday how things were! Good work on that, btw. I think short stuff is where your natural 'bent' lies but you do seem to enjoy the longer stuff.
Re cadence, you don't need to aim for a faster cadence all the time. Your slower runs will naturally be at a lower cadence and that's ok, even the elites lower @ slower. From what I understand, your fastest cadence will happen when you race and for most elites, this is generally at 180'bpm'. You should probably aim to introduce a quicker cadence when doing tempo work etc. For that, you would ideally need someone observing and counting. (Did I hear you say you were in a club now....?!) No harm to do the cadence count thing when on easy or steady runs for a minute at a time, just to get a feel for it.
Thank you both for the advice re: cadence. I am certainly not going to force it from 150 to 180 (I don't think I'd be able, even if I were to try).
I had one miserable attempt running with a metronome app, which failed. But I was out on another easy run with my colleagues, when I measured twice, both ~152. My running buddy reported ~165, so next couple of times I measured, I just tried to match his stride-rate and it worked a charm. So I think I am just going to do that a couple of times a week during the easy stuff. Yet to do a 'tempo' session to see if the stride-rate naturally increases.
As for running, a rather unremarkable week with 3x5 easy miles mid-week (one on the grass in the local park) but an interesting 2km race time-trial organized by the local club (my local club, actually). There were about 20 athletes (including the better half, we had dropped our two charges at the junior training session of the same club!), including the local elites. I registered with Dubgal who was very much in her element with the clip-board, handing out numbers etc. I had no idea what to expect or aim for, having ran easy mileage earlier in the afternoon, but anything under 8 minutes seemed like a good target. The race would be 2 laps of the first parkrun lap (1km each). A very low-key start and as I was keen not to go out too fast, I settled behind a local runner, who I know from the local parkrun and typically runs a similar time to me. The first lap felt tough but doable and I felt I had to hold back to not overtake this guy. So just before the 1km split, I decided to overtake and did my best "when you go, go decisively"-impersonation. Whatever, it worked, as he couldn't follow. Two boards-legends called out the splits for the first km (3:58) so I knew I was on target and felt I had more left. I set my sights on another fella ahead of us and got him around the mile-mark. From that moment, it was "madman" work and eventually I collapsed over the line in 7:53. I was happy enough with that, although in hindsight, the first lap could have been a bit faster. Clapped in the other competitors and then biked it over to play bridge in my running-shorts - just like last year during the summer.
During the weekend (we were away in Mayo to avoid the HFC-malarky), I completed a "parenting triathlon", first we cycled a good part (26km) of the Great Western bike-path (with my daughter on the back), then we swam (well, messed about) in the hotel pool for about 90 minutes, and then I was out for a few evening miles to finish it all off.
In other news, I have signed up for the Charleville HM! :eek:0 -
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Mon May 22: 6.5M @ 8:18 min/mi
Solu-run up the hill towards Kilternan and Stepaside. Wanted to go easy but stepped on the gas in the second half.
Tue May 23: 4.2M @ 9:37 min/mi
Short run with two colleagues, one returning from a long absence so we took it handy. Eventually the other lad and I went ahead a bit and threw in some strides. Busy week with work, so delighted to get some miles in.
Wed May 24 and Thu May 25
Enforced rest due to work-business/visitors.
Fri May 26: Mountainy run up and over Tibradden (5.4M @ 10:34 min/mi)
Having spent the three days before in conference rooms, my DCM15 buddy and I weren't going to let the last nice day slip away so we headed up into the Dublin Mountains at lunchtime. I had never ran this route before but the views were stunning. Sweaty, hard work, but great run, ~300m of elevation (sorry, I'll do miles, but I am not doing feet!)
Sat May 27: Shanganagh parkrun (3.0M @ 7:17 min/mi)
The young fella was on GA duty in the local park so I was going to cruise around for something in the 23m. I was late to the start and yesterday's hills were still in my legs, so took my time on the first lap, then started to pick-up runners. It was so humid, I was a dripping sweaty mess within minutes, but gave it a decent effort until about 4km when I settled in between two lads. I thought I could have them so I waited patiently to the finishing straight and then overtook both. One quickly faded but the other one come back, and I .... just let him overtake
. Oh well, the time wasn't the worst (22m37s or thereabouts) but a bit disappointed not fighting harder for my spot. Anyway, said my thanks to the volunteers, collected the young lad, went home, and the heavens opened. Good timing!
Sun May 28: 9.5M @ 9:17 min/mi
Lovely lovely run North along the coast to Dalkey, and back the same way. I even ran a little bit over Killiney beach, and it's namesake Hill was a steep b*st*rd as usual. But the views of Sorrento Tce, Dalkey Island etc were well worth it. Loved it. Again, about 300m elevation gain.:cool:0 -
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Annie get your Run wrote: »Killiney Hill, one of my favourite places in the whole world. There are some really peaceful sections just away from the trails where you can sit in the sun and look at the stunning beauty below, the colours of the sea, the sky and the view of Howth on one side and Bray Head on the other #stunning.
Couldn't agree more, here's a random picture of the south-facing view, in fact, I ran on that beach as part of this run, and if you look really, really, really closely you can even see my house.
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No particular reason!
Just my favorite routes all have plenty of elevation in them, and I haven't even been back to Carrickgollogan since CNM17.
Did you already do a marathon this morning?
Well I'm glad to see you on the hills, I think you run very well on hills and they're a lot more fun aren't they?
ha ha I knocked one out on Saturday so took it handy this morning 0 -
Some random runnings to report.
Mon May 29 sweet nada
Tue May 30 5M @ 9:43 min/mi
Running with three colleagues - with a little incident. One of our group took a hard fall just a few 100m in. Bruises on her hands, arm, and shoulder but she motored on regardless. We took it very easy and I ran back and forward between the various mini-groups.
Wed May 31 <3M @ 8:19 min/mi
On return home from a good day in work, I had some nice dinner and even allowed myself a glass of red. As my family were all occupied elsewhere and the sun was shining, some mileage beckoned so I set off to the local park. All good, in theory, but my stomach was eager to let me know that next time, I should change the order in which I do things. Run first, booze later.
Thu Jun 1 5M @ 8:47 min/mi
Easy solo mileage, deserted by my usual running buddies.
Fri Jun 2 >6M @ 8:56 min/mi
More easy solo mileage, up the hill towards Kilternan / Stepaside and trundling back down at the other end. Loved it.
Sat Jun 3 Tymon Parkrun (22m51s, 7:21 min/mi)
Nop jr had no GA match this morning, so we continued our tour of local parkruns. We have ambitions to do as many different parkruns as we can over the next few years. So this morning, we rocked up at Tymon Park. Pretty low-key affair (exactly as it should be) on a glorious day. The route is two laps, and I thought from my 20 seconds recce it would all be flat.. However, I was mistaken as the first part of the loop is deceptively hard uphill (and in the wind), followed by a long slope back to the start on which you could make up for lost time. We had a nice run, my young fella was struggling a bit (he asked about 10 times in the last 600m if we were there yet), but he got a boost when one of the marshals (a kid himself) shouted at him "you're the first kid!". Just under 23m was about right for the effort we put in.
Afterwards, as we were catching our breath, chickey2 called over and introduced herself - I am well impressed that she figured out who I was so we had a nice chat and after that, we were on our way.
Sun Jun 4 8M @ 9:27 min/mi
Back into my beloved hills near my house - although the run (especially the uphill part) was a bit of a struggle, it felt I never got out of second gear. Glorious downhill trails as always, although I had some odd stomach discomfort (no boozing this time, so no idea why) which made me have to slow down a good bit.
Thus completes a week of rather aimless, but enjoyable running 0 -
*undusts log*
Week of June 5 - 11
26M in 4 runs (including a 10M "LSR", longest run since Connemara). It also included a parkrun in the company of the indefatigable AgyR and a visit to Glendalough support the amazing Neady as she blasted her way through the Wicklow Mountains. Yet another inspiring performance.
Week of June 12 - 18
More random runnings: 28M in 5 runs. Amid the easy junk miles, I added the Griffeen parkrun to my list. My young fella had an away match against Lucan and the timing and location were absolutely perfect: he was playing right next to the start/finish area of the local parkrun and started at 10am. So I dropped him to his coaches and queued up at the back of the pack. It was a fabulous morning and quite warm.
After a slow first kilometer I got bored and started to pick up the pace, and kept picking off runners towards the very end. I overtook a runner in the M60+ category just before the finish, I can only hope to be still clocking it up at reasonable pace. It all resulted in a very decent 21m50s (7:01 min/mi) so I was well pleased with that.
Week of June 19 - 25
On a whim, I had signed up for the Dunshaughlin 10k of last Saturday, so two shorter easy runs during the week only. I have ran this race 2 years ago, just before the start of the DCM'15 journey, and it's a superfast course and a star-studded field.
This year, I was hoping the remnants of the CNM17 training would deliver a small PB - which stood at 45:24 on a much tougher course in Dun Laoghaire, last summer. The plan was to aim for 45 minutes, or even 4:30 min/km splits, and hopefully pick it up towards the finishline (sorry, I am doing kilometer splits for a 10k!).
My kids and their grandfather (who lives in the town) dropped me to the start where I did some strides and said hello to a few known faces. Without much fuzz, the race kicked off and it all starts on a gorgeous, slightly downhill, wide stretch of road, before turning back into town. After about a kilometer, my personal cheering party were waiting and I gave them a little wave. First km clocked in at 4:12, a little fast but appropriate given the downhill. I quickly settled into a group of runners with Portmarnock singlets. AgyR was out supporting and I finally broke my 3-in-a-row missing her in the crowd at previous races.
The next couple of kms flew by (4:17, 4:19, 4:22, 4:22). I was working hard (harder than I recall from 2015) but I knew I was building a reasonable buffer and I felt just about comfortable.
The 5km split was 21:35 (or thereabouts), which would almost be a non-Jingle Bells 5km PB (I managed a parkrun slightly faster a few weeks ago). Just before the 6km mark, the course takes a right turn past a water-station, a sharp drop, another right turn, and a sharp incline. Km's 6 and 7 were 4:14 and 4:21, but the tough part of the race had arrived and I did some mental-math to confirm that a handful of 4:30s would do for a nice PB. The 8th km is tough as there's a long drag up and I was really starting to struggle. The same runners were still more or less around me and sometimes they pulled away, but on other stretches I was stronger. At the 8km mark, the watch beeped for 4:32.
I was wavering a little at this point, thinking I had done enough for a nice PB and I could start easing off. However, I managed to pull myself together just in time, thinking I hadn't pushed myself so hard to just canter it in, and the mental kick up the a*e really worked (9th km 4:13). My kids said they'd be at the left-side of the road, maybe 500m out, so I made sure I was over on that side. They were on the other side of the road, I did hear them shouting, but didn't have the energy to spot them (they blamed their granddad). I also saw AgyR again at this spot who turns out to have a *fine* encouraging voice :P. The final km clocked in at 4:22 as I collapse over the finishline, with a pumped fist out of excitement and also relief that the end was finally there. :eek:
My family quickly collected me and we're off back to the in-laws for dinner, it was only later that evening that I checked the official results: 43:32 (PB), almost 2 minutes off my previous time. That'll do just fine! 0 -
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Thank you all for your kind words! Real life has the habit of getting in the way, hence the late acknowledgement... But it's really appreciated!Annie get your Run wrote: »indefatigable, I had to google that thanks!!
Well done on your pb! I know you've been feeling a bit meh since Connemara so hopefully this will put you back on track for Charleville training.
Bit "meh" is right but it's hard to stay "meh" when you see all these amazing runs and races ran around you. Thanks for the shouts again. Please don't bring the megaphone to Charleville!
Thank you C!Pomplamousse wrote: »What a great time, congrats!!:D
PB and only a cheap can of Canadian beer for PBeer duty, but it tasted fineGreat going Nop... PB woo hoo!:)
Thank you Denis, I have to say I was a little surpisedWell done Nop. You fairly well blasted your old pb out of the water.
Many thanks GK!Great result Nop, well done on PB, great racing.
Thank you Neady - you're too kind! Yes, this certainly went better than the one other race I aimed for this year.WOW .... Wow .... that's unreal. Delighted for you Nop, whatever you're doing, keep doing it I'm well chuffed for you. Great racing and able to dig deep to finish strong and leave it out there, that's great racing
Thanks Diego - next up is Charleville - I guess I might see you there, and will be clinging to your coat-tails!A 2 minute pb on a 10K is nuts, really super run there N.
You're in good shape so, what's next?
Thank you M! I can actually improve a little in the consistency department, but I have been lucky enough to clock up a good few miles this year, and it pays.hillsiderunner wrote: »Congratulations! A really fast time, that's what you get from really consistent training.
Thank you!Great running Nop and congrats on the PB!
Thanks BDeadly stuff N, another great PB!
You win the price for most original praise!The Black Oil wrote: »The Flying Dutchman moniker sure is apt. Congrats. Thanks!
Ha! That's funny. Unfortunately, my predecessor (your grandmother !?) is WAAYY ahead of us.... so the trend doesn't continue!Wubble Wubble wrote: »Same as mine actually �� who would have thought that the DOM Novices mentor and his anointed successor would have the same 10k PB? 0 -
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