Claire Byrne Live (RTE1)

vicwatson

Mr E wrote: »

Peter Boylan had a rough night. His frustration was written all over his face and it was obvious from his body language.

He got interrupted and shouted at 90% of the time he tried to speak and CB wouldn't let him answer questions that were put to him instead letting the audience member straight back in to interrupt him

Mr E

Yep. Painful to watch.

vicwatson

NIMAN wrote: »

I always thought CB was a lightweight host/anchor to a show, and she proved me 100% right last night.

Totally agree, she seems to think she runs rte (she gets enough airtime to)

drunkmonkey

NIMAN wrote: »

I always thought CB was a lightweight host/anchor to a show, and she proved me 100% right last night.

In fairness to her she had some proper headbangers in the audience. She should have asked that lady from the Yes side who insulted Maria to leave, it would have put an end to the messing.

uck51js9zml2yt

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In fairness to her she had some proper headbangers in the audience. She should have asked that lady from the Yes side who insulted Maria to leave, it would have put an end to the messing.

That "lady" was a member of our prestigious parliament!

drunkmonkey

Jacqueline Attractive Napkin wrote: »

That "lady" was a member of our prestigious parliament!

The pro abortion one? Jesus.

yerwanthere123

I think the most farcical thing from last night was John Monaghan, a man working inside the medical profession, trying to argue that a foetus at 12 weeks is "fully formed".

drunkmonkey

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I think the most farcical thing from last night was John Monaghan, a man working inside the medical profession, trying to argue that a foetus at 12 weeks is "fully formed".

It is more or less formed was the point I think he was making, as opposed to fully grown. It's formed at 12 weeks just needs to grow.

EdEd

Nice to see Mary Butler on the television talk about something she cares about. As her constituent it is the only time I have seen her since she was elected apart from a photo shoot outside Waterford Regional Hospital.

Your day is coming Mary you useless lump.

Sesame

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A lot of those things were brought up, The Savita issue even Boylin didn't answer that straight up when Mattie threw it up to him, he was cleaver in his words. As someone who's seen first hand how the Hospitals handle sepsis, she died due to a shocking lack of care with a deadly condition not because of the 8th. It's one of the biggest killers in the country. I think the Yes side should drop using her it's not a good example.

Its quite clear from the experts and subsequent inquest that the 8th contributed to her death.
She dies of sepsis, that is right. Sepsis is a poisioning in her body. Her body was being poisoned because of a foetus that was dying, its called a septic miscarraige. She asked for an abortion to expel the foetus and was told she couldn't because, in the words of the nurse/midwife her husband spoke to "This is a catholic country". She would have to wait for the foetus's heartbeat to stop. This delayed any chance of recovery while the medical profession's hands were tied, waiting for the tiny heart to inevitably stop. Meanwhile, the mothers condition worsened.

retro:electro

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Maria won last night hands down. I didn't think she kept interrupting people, she was very composed.

I wouldn’t really call her dismissive regard for the hard cases and continual lies a win.
The reality is abortions are happening anyway. So while all the No voters seem to think they’re an army of baby savers; the reality is they’re not saving any babies. Not only that, but they’re not saving any women either. In fact, they’re making life incredibly difficult and restrictive for women who face the most difficult of personal circumstances. Love Both indeed. :rolleyes:

If the 8th is defeated or not, it won’t be a celebratory day for Ireland like the marriage ref was. There’ll be no bunting or banners or champagne popping, because despite what many No voters would have you believe, Yes voters aren’t pro-abortion. In an ideal world no abortions would ever have to happen. But that isn’t reality and since they are happening, we need to make them as safe as we can for the women who need them and not continue to export our problems to the UK.

Billgirlylegs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It is more or less formed was the point I think he was making, as opposed to fully grown. It's formed at 12 weeks just needs to grow.

"Peter needs to go back to Medical School" (or words to that effect), was the opening of his comment. He went on to say that the baby is "fully formed" at 12 weeks.
I think it has been highly praised as an example of showing Peter Boylan up as a spoofer.

But. What is the baby doing for the other 28 weeks(ish)?

It was in response to Peter Boylan's reply to a lady in the audience who was talking (I think) about holding her miscarried baby who was 12 weeks (there or thereabouts). He said that the baby isn't fully formed at that age.
We know what he meant.

Probably just one example of insulting childish hectoring name calling

johnpatrick81

retro:electro wrote: »

I wouldn’t really call her dismissive regard for the hard cases and continual lies a win.
The reality is abortions are happening anyway. So while all the No voters seem to think they’re an army of baby savers; the reality is they’re not saving any babies. Not only that, but they’re not saving any women either. In fact, they’re making life incredibly difficult and restrictive for women who face the most difficult of personal circumstances. Love Both indeed. :rolleyes:

If the 8th is defeated, it won’t be a celebratory day for Ireland like the marriage ref was. There’ll be no bunting or banners or champagne popping, because despite what many No voters would have you believe, Yes voters aren’t pro-abortion. In an ideal world no abortions would ever have to happen. But that isn’t reality and since they are happening, we need to make them as safe as we can for the women who need them and not continue to export our problems to the UK.

You'd honestly wonder if some of them are Ryanair shareholders at this stage.

No abortion!! Oh right yeah, if you get this 40 minute flight it's grand like! One of the worst cases of passing the buck this country has ever done.

Homesick Alien

Have to say I thought Claire Byrne did a fine job considering this is a highly emotive issue and everyone in the audience and on the panel was a passionate yes or no advocate.I don't know who from the RTE stable you all think would have done a better job?

I thought Claire and Maria Steen were the winners on the night. The big losers were Mattie McGrath and Brid Smith who both came across like petulant children calling people liars.

Peter Boylan, whom I would have had a lot of respect for, definitely looked shell shocked by it all.

There was no way that was ever going to be a civilised debate so I don't know why people on here are getting so upset about it. I didn't particularly notice more airtime being given to the no side but I thought they got their points across more effectively. It definitely wasn't some rte conspiracy anyway 🙄

yerwanthere123

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It is more or less formed was the point I think he was making, as opposed to fully grown. It's formed at 12 weeks just needs to grow.

And do you think that this was clear from what he was saying? Or was he trying to imply that aborting a foetus at 12 weeks is akin to aborting a fully developed baby?

drunkmonkey

Sesame wrote: »

Its quite clear from the experts and subsequent inquest that the 8th contributed to her death.
She dies of sepsis, that is right. Sepsis is a poisioning in her body. Her body was being poisoned because of a foetus that was dying, its called a septic miscarraige. She asked for an abortion to expel the foetus and was told she couldn't because, in the words of the nurse/midwife her husband spoke to "This is a catholic country". She would have to wait for the foetus's heartbeat to stop. This delayed any chance of recovery while the medical profession's hands were tied, waiting for the tiny heart to inevitably stop. Meanwhile, the mothers condition worsened.

She had Sepsis, she was at risk of death, it can kill rapidly, I think the medical team were wrong. It wasn't necessary to wait for the baby to die, the mother was already in grave danger. Maternal sepsis rates and sepsis rates are going through the roof as there only deceticing them now.
8th or no 8th she was in big trouble once she had sepsis, they still can't treat it properly and killing people every day here. The Hospitals and staff are not up to scratch.
The HSE has made good attempts to highlight it but with over stretched hospitals, staff and equipment it's going to keep on killing.

The 8th isn't at fault for her death it's the HSE.

Zulu

retro:electro wrote: »

I wouldn’t really call her dismissive regard for the hard cases and continual lies a win.

In the strictest terms of the debate, she won it. Speaker of the night, hands down.

The reality is abortions are happening anyway.

While this is true, this point wasn't won in the debate from what I saw.

If the 8th is defeated, it won’t be a celebratory day for Ireland like the marriage ref was.

You're right, it wont be, because believe it or not, the vast majority of "No" don't look at this as a celebratory issue; the vast majority of "No" appreciate how difficult this whole thing is for everyone.


And if it's defeated it will be our governments fault for making the initial proposed legislation to liberal. The smarter way would have been to make it as restrictive as possible and to ensure the 8th is repealed - capture as many of the boarder line voters; capture as much of the middle ground. Then once it's out of the constitution, in a few more years, the legislation could be easily revisited or expanded.



But unfortunately that's not whats on the table, and it's going to be costly.

Billgirlylegs

EdEd wrote: »

Nice to see Mary Butler on the television talk about something she cares about. As her constituent it is the only time I have seen her since she was elected apart from a photo shoot outside Waterford Regional Hospital.

Your day is coming Mary you useless lump.

Was she the woman who seemed to find it all quite amusing.?
She gave the impression that it was all a bit of craic.
Smile was never too far away.

Galwayguy35

I'm assuming TV3 will have a debate coming up before the vote as well, if they have the 2 teletubbies Cooper and Yates fighting to ask questions as well as the opposing sides it will be another mess unfortunately.

Zulu

Zulu wrote: »

In the strictest terms of the debate, she won it. Speaker of the night, hands down.

in your opinion...............certainly not in mine!

I am going to vote YES anyway but listening to the NO side last night would only strengthen my decision to vote YES (if I was in any doubt).

Zulu

Deleted User wrote: »

in your opinion...............certainly not in mine!

Indeed sweetmaggie, that is exactly how it works.

As a matter of interest, which speaker did you think was the better on the night?

I am going to vote YES anyway but listening to the NO side last night would only strengthen my decision to vote YES (if I was in any doubt).

Thats great.

Seeing as we are sharing, I'm personally still very undecided. It would be a no-brainer for me if some provision was provided in the proposed legislation, but sadly thats not the case. Looks like the government have gone for an "all or nothing", and that makes it very difficult for me, personally, to decide.

BarryD2

Zulu wrote: »

In the strictest terms of the debate, she won it. Speaker of the night, hands down.

Overbearing, pontificating and interrupting. Avoiding answering challenging questions & cases, deflecting, obfuscating, mangling meanings, misinterpreting - that's what came across to me as a viewer. I'd call that just switching people off and against you.

I've no issue with people who are wont to keep the 8th at all. But I do have a major issue with the tactics employed by some of same.

Mitzy

Zulu wrote: »

Indeed sweetmaggie, that is exactly how it works.

As a matter of interest, which speaker did you think was the better on the night?

Thats great.

Seeing as we are sharing, I'm personally still very undecided. It would be a no-brainer for me if some provision was provided in the proposed legislation, but sadly thats not the case. Looks like the government have gone for an "all or nothing", and that makes it very difficult for me, personally, to decide.

This is exactly where I am Zulu. I'm very uncomfortable voting on something that hasn't been shared with the voting public or decided by the Dail. If I knew I was removing the 8th Amendment & the alternative was to be set down in writing then I would be more willing to vote yes. Right now I am very undecided and if it does fail then the government will be very damaged by leaving it as open as they have.

retro:electro

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It is more or less formed was the point I think he was making, as opposed to fully grown. It's formed at 12 weeks just needs to grow.

We should all have our babies at 12 weeks so. Be grand. Why would I bother carrying around a back breaking lump for 9 months when I could have it done and dusted in 12 weeks?

pinkypinky

You do understand that draft legislation has been published? It cannot be more than draft because the 8th amendment is still in place. 2 bills have been brought to try and legislate for fatal foetal abnormalities and the Attorney General dismissed them both as unconstitutional because of the 8th. Nothing can be done while it is in place.

I am in no way undecided: voting yes, and the disgraceful behaviour displayed last night has only galvanised me more.

Zulu

BarryD2 wrote: »

Overbearing, pontificating and interrupting. Avoiding answering challenging questions & cases, deflecting, obfuscating, mangling meanings, misinterpreting...

Whats this a thesaurus entry?


I get you don't agree with her; I get you are "Yes", but in terms of the actual Claire Byrne debate itself - as televised - who do you feel was the best speaker?

batistuta9

Zulu wrote: »

Whats this a thesaurus entry?


I get you don't agree with her; I get you are "Yes", but in terms of the actual Claire Byrne debate itself - as televised - who do you feel was the best speaker?

Mary Lou was the best speaker I thought.
Maria Steen the best on the no side & is probably the best debater they have.

Zulu

batistuta9 wrote: »

Mary Lou was the best speaker I thought.

From what I saw she we deffo there or there abouts.
Was she the only one to call out the audience? Bonus points for that point eitherway.

drunkmonkey

pinkypinky wrote: »

You do understand that draft legislation has been published? It cannot be more than draft because the 8th amendment is still in place. 2 bills have been brought to try and legislate for fatal foetal abnormalities and the Attorney General dismissed them both as unconstitutional because of the 8th. Nothing can be done while it is in place.

It's only a draft, it's not final legislation. It could all change, there's nothing in stone.
I think people want to see something in stone before they decide to give the power to take a life to someone.

Harris said,

Mr Harris said that beyond the first 12 weeks, terminations would only be available in exceptional circumstances. (what are these circumstances besides the one example below).

These include where there is a risk of serious harm to the health or life of the woman, in emergency situations and in cases of fatal foetal abnormality.

He said in all other circumstances abortion would remain unlawful.

Do you honestly believe that is what's going to happen, every abortion besides the one mentioned above is unlawful.
I don't think the yes side would be happy with such restrictions, that's not what there looking for.

pinkypinky

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think people want to see something in stone before they decide to give the power to take a life to someone.

This is simply not possible with the 8th Amendment in place.