Claire Byrne Live (RTE1)

freshpopcorn

BettePorter wrote: »

Did clodagh teach in the same school as him ?

No, from what I remember at the time.

Only in Ireland could such a monster have such a position of responsibility. A teacher who was a bully and control freak? Who would have thunk it?

tretorn

Hawe knew what he was doing.
He waited until the boys were in bed and then attacked Clodagh, he would have killed the eldest boy first so he couldn’t protect the younger ones. He was methodical in his actions and he made sure to transfer money into his accounts so it would go to his family.
It would have been good to have had his brain examined to see was there something abnormal about it.
Clodagh taught in a different school, was it in Kells

BettePorter

I'm glad the sister called out this bull**** depression excuse. It's like the adult adhd. You can't just be a little bollix of a child or a cX€t of an adult. You have to have a get out of jail card.

Legitimate ppl with adhd or actual depression must despair at how easily it's tossed about .

BettePorter

Obviously there is protocol but as a human being I'm shocked that ANY teacher /principal wouldn't privately go to them and tell them unofficially what had gone on. Are there really ppl who still have respect for this bastard ?

Mr.Nice Guy

Awful to listen to the details. Feel so sorry for the family.

He said in his letter they couldn't have gone on without him. In reality, he couldn't accept the fact they could have. Actions of a controlling, narcissistic bully but the manner of the deaths he gave them was particularly sinister.

tretorn

I wonder was he facing into disciplinary action when school reopened. Was his wife going to find out then.

BettePorter

Gotta praise rte in this instance tbf. No sensationalist clips no pictures of him at all. No defending the indefensible.

tretorn

It’s just so sickening for the parents of the children he taught too, to think of that monster alone in a room with your child.

MintyMagnum

tretorn wrote: »

It’s just so sickening for the parents of the children he taught too, to think of that monster alone in a room with your child.

Makes you wonder why the school have not spoken with Clodagh's relatives What have they got to hide

MintyMagnum

BettePorter wrote: »

Gotta praise rte in this instance tbf. No sensationalist clips no pictures of him at all. No defending the indefensible.

He wasn't referred to by name by some people either, in this or the previous documentary, no harm, for an individual who thought the world revolved around Him

airy fairy

MintyMagnum wrote: »

Makes you wonder why the school have not spoken with Clodagh's relatives What have they got to hide

I hope parents with children in the school now, and past pupils, will be queuing up at the school in the morning to demand the answers to which concerns both Clodagh's family, and the children who are bring taught, and have been taught there.

MintyMagnum

BettePorter wrote: »

Obviously there is protocol but as a human being I'm shocked that ANY teacher /principal wouldn't privately go to them and tell them unofficially what had gone on. Are there really ppl who still have respect for this bastard ?

Culpability?

BettePorter

MintyMagnum wrote: »

BettePorter wrote: »

Obviously there is protocol but as a human being I'm shocked that ANY teacher /principal wouldn't privately go to them and tell them unofficially what had gone on. Are there really ppl who still have respect for this bastard ?

Culpability?

Well unless he wasn't doing what's been alleged he did I don't see why they'd feel culpable. On a human level surely you'd have been front and centre in offering help and support in the aftermath and still. Yet the sister says they've had no contact at all. Surely that can't be true. Did the kids go to same school ?

retro:electro

In fairness I don’t think it’s fair to penalise innocent co workers who may not have known anything. They didn’t do anything wrong here. It could be as simple as, he was caught jacking off and was dreading going back knowing his former reputation would be in tatters and he would be the butt of some jokes. He was a narcissist. Narcissist have an idealised image of themselves, and when this is threatened, they catastrophise and act irrationally, sometimes in ways that are completely at odds and disproportionate to the issue at hand. I don’t think it’s fair to assume the co workers knew any more than the rest of us. He seems like he controlled his image to a T, we can’t assume his colleagues hold the answers.

FrancieBrady

retro:electro wrote: »

In fairness I don’t think it’s fair to penalise innocent co workers who may not have known anything. They didn’t do anything wrong here. It could be as simple as, he was caught jacking off and was dreading going back knowing his former reputation would be in tatters and he would be the butt of some jokes. He was a narcissist. Narcissist have an idealised image of themselves, and when this is threatened, they catastrophise and act irrationally, sometimes in ways that are completely at odds and disproportionate to the issue at hand. I don’t think it’s fair to assume the co workers knew any more than the rest of us. He seems like he controlled his image to a T.

I think this is probably close to the truth. If there was abuse at the heart of this, no modern school would sit on that info. The gardai would have been involved straight away or if there was a cover up, they would have been involved since.

MintyMagnum

retro:electro wrote: »

In fairness I don’t think it’s fair to penalise innocent co workers who may not have known anything. They didn’t do anything wrong here. It could be as simple as, he was caught jacking off and was dreading going back knowing his former reputation would be in tatters and he would be the butt of some jokes. He was a narcissist. Narcissist have an idealised image of themselves, and when this is threatened, they catastrophise and act irrationally, sometimes in ways that are completely at odds and disproportionate to the issue at hand. I don’t think it’s fair to assume the co workers knew any more than the rest of us. He seems like he controlled his image to a T, we can’t assume his colleagues hold the answers.[/quote

Disciplinary procedures / protocols & how they may have been followed or not springs to mind as does Louise O'Keeffe
as does the Vatican / Mafia style Omertà

BettePorter

Well who confirmed the porn on laptop/masturbation thing ? Has that ever been said ? Clodagh didn't know so they only found out afterward. So perhaps a teacher did give them this info? If it were the guards wouldn't it be more official and detailed. What i mean is are they saying it as fact or rumour ?

Perhaps it had been something a colleague caught him at pre holidays and had told him he was gonna report it come sept.

I mean surely if he was officially caught he'd have been suspended immediately and that would be common knowledge now.

If a teacher in our school was caught doing that early June ....I'm pretty sure nobody would wait for a conversation til sept 1st .

donkeykong5

Why didn't the ****er just kill himself!

MintyMagnum

BettePorter wrote: »

Well unless he wasn't doing what's been alleged he did I don't see why they'd feel culpable. On a human level surely you'd have been front and centre in offering help and support in the aftermath and still. Yet the sister says they've had no contact at all.

Disciplinary procedures / protocols & how they may have been followed or not springs to mind as does Louise O'Keeffe
as does the Vatican / Mafia style Omertà Smacks of ass covering for something

MintyMagnum

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why didn't the ****er just kill himself!

Ego

retro:electro

MintyMagnum wrote: »

Ego

Yep. Narcissists rarely harm themselves without harming everyone around them first.

To me he seems to have been a classic psychopath, which comprise a small percentage of any population, and indeed it is a small minority of those who carries out such an act. It’s a conscience deficit, although they are aware of how society operates and their place in it. Like all people they like to be held in some esteem.... at any cost. Karen Buckley’s killer was such, and at the worst end of that spectrum. It may be an inborn trait, but there is a huge amount to be learned about neuropathology. Psychologists can help us identify such people, and educate against getting involved with them, although the most evil of them will find a way to end somebody’s life somewhere in pursuit of their own self-esteem.

tretorn

Its important to know if and when he was caught accessing porn.
Was it at this point he went to the counsellor and told Clodagh, would the school have insisted he sought professional help and also that Clodagh be kept informed. Maybe he just told Clodagh he was watching porn and didnt say he had been caught on the school premises.
It could be that he had lost his job in June and was told not to come back in September. He did ring his Union so was it about being suspended or fired.
His wifes family need answers and as parents entrusting their children to other adults in schools we all need to know what happened here and hope lessons are learned.

BettePorter

BettePorter wrote: »

Well who confirmed the porn on laptop/masturbation thing ? Has that ever been said ? Clodagh didn't know so they only found out afterward. So perhaps a teacher did give them this info? If it were the guards wouldn't it be more official and detailed. What i mean is are they saying it as fact or rumour ?

Perhaps it had been something a colleague caught him at pre holidays and had told him he was gonna report it come sept.

I mean surely if he was officially caught he'd have been suspended immediately and that would be common knowledge now.

If a teacher in our school was caught doing that early June ....I'm pretty sure nobody would wait for a conversation til sept 1st .

We were told by the mother that Clodagh had disclosed to her that he had confessed to using porn (at least in the home as far as I can recall), she thought it was his way of kind of trying to get her approval so to speak so that he could relax and go ahead and do it any time without having to cover his tracks. Did he tell her he was doing it at school too or did he say that part in the note? The mother and sister got to read some of the written stuff he left behind, but not all of the five pages of stuff with the guards have. But if the school principal knew already, surely she would have already told him not to return, informed the guards etc. And surely a colleague would have made contact with the principal during holidays over such a serious matter, and /informed guards as it had taken place in a school. Another thing, what was the nature of the porn, did it involve child-abuse?

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

............
Was it at this point he went to the counsellor and told Clodagh, would the school have insisted he sought professional help and also that Clodagh be kept informed. .................

Unless it was child porn or some really sick stuff I doubt they'd be insisting he sought help...........

tretorn

If it was child porn whoever caught him would have a mandatory duty to call the Gardai.

If they didnt they could lose their job too.

If he was masturbating while watching porn on school premises it is entirely possible that the school management would require that he seek professional help. They would have a duty of care to him as his employer.

But as I said unless the relatives are given the information they want they will never know if he did indeed access porn in school.

All they know is he didnt want to go back and he did what he did the day before he was to report for work.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

...................

If he was masturbating while watching porn on school premises it is entirely possible that the school management would require that he seek professional help. They would have a duty of care to him as his employer.............

Surely there'd be more pressing matters to address, disciplinary ones ?

tretorn

The teachers unions are very strong so all steps would have to be taken including looking after his welfare while showing him the door.

Its all moot anyway until the relatives are advised as to what actually happened. Till the school release the information the family are no wiser as to what happened as they were the day of the murders. They still dont know what Hawe referred to when he mentioned them finding out the truth and how his family in his mind would be better off dead than living with what he had done. This was his excuse for not just drowning or hanging himself and letting his family live their lives.

retro:electro

Augeo wrote: »

Surely there'd be more pressing matters to address, disciplinary ones ?

In order for there to be disciplinary hearings the colleague would had to have reported what they had seen. We don’t know that they did. This could have been an ongoing conflict between the two of them over the summer months, with the colleague finally relenting and stating they will be reporting what they saw on their return in September.