CM PUNK

Dtp1979

ricero wrote: »

What weight will punk be fighting at ? I expect his debut to draw big numbers

Deadweight

Dtp1979

Gamebred wrote: »

The perfect example of a manchild

A Rogue Hobo

Saipanne wrote:

Then does he have a background in actual combat sports before ufc?

Yep by "shoot" training for pro wrestling in Japan, which is what piqued his interest in competing in MMA. I'm not sure I can simpifly this any more for you.

Thought you were talking about the sport of MMA like you said and not just UFC anyways?

John_D80

callaway92 wrote: »

Yes it does.

Many people I know that got into MMA have found it easy because they can still feel a connection with certain characters while knowing it's a real contat combat sport.

Guys like Sonnen/McGregor etc who get a lot of their dialogue from Pro Wrestling have made it easier for people to get into it.

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

Saipanne

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Yep by "shoot" training for pro wrestling in Japan, which is what piqued his interest in competing in MMA. I'm not sure I can simpifly this any more for you.

Thought you were talking about the sport of MMA like you said and not just UFC anyways?

Because you referenced them.

He fought combat sport for real. Not pre determined. In Pancrase? So it's not like he was some guy who only ever performed in pro wrestling and decided to give MMA a go because they're practically the same thing, hence the ease of crossover. These guys were fighters before they entered the world of theatre.

John_D80

riffmongous wrote: »

You musn't have a clue about the origins of mma so, unless you think mma = ufc

No mate, I'm quite knowledgable on the origins of MMA and in no shape or form was pro wrestling a major influence on it as a sport.

Given, there have been a handful of crossover athletes to be sure but they were almost all to a man, experienced martial artists and/or high school or collegiate wrestlers who just happened to be pro wrestlers as well. But they are very small in number and account for a tiny percentage of MMA fighters even in the early days of the sport and the sport would have flourished with or without them.

A Rogue Hobo

Sonnen actually wanted to be a pro wrestler before he got into MMA, got a tryout for WCW back in the day but found the camp very intense and decided to concentrate on college instead. He's a pretty open about his love for professional wrestling. Actually works for a professional wrestling company at the moment.

Was clearly influenced by it in terms of learning how to sell a fight, would often tweak wrestlers lines for his own interviews "You are looking at the largest arms in west Oregan" for example is a slight variation on Superstar Billy Graham.

McGregor was definitely a fan of wrestling and has said as much but seems to be a bit embarrassed by it all as he rarely talks about it or talks down on it when asked about it. I think he's afraid of being referred to as being fake which is understandable in his world and the image he needs to maintain.

Easy Rod

John_D80 wrote: »

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

John_D80

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Sonnen actually wanted to be a pro wrestler before he got into MMA, got a tryout for WCW back in the day but found the camp very intense and decided to concentrate on college instead. He's a pretty open about his love for professional wrestling. Actually works for a professional wrestling company at the moment.

Was clearly influenced by it in terms of learning how to sell a fight, would often tweak wrestlers lines for his own interviews "You are looking at the largest arms in west Oregan" for example is a slight variation on Superstar Billy Graham.

McGregor was definitely a fan of wrestling and has said as much but seems to be a bit embarrassed by it all as he rarely talks about it or talks down on it when asked about it. I think he's afraid of being referred to as being fake which is understandable in his world and the image he needs to maintain.

Oh well if these guys have dynamic and engaging personalities and ability to generate hype for fights, well it could only come from Pro Wrestling couldn't it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I mean its totally outlandish for anyone to assume that they might be naturally gifted speakers with a flair and talent for engineering social interactions, using their own personalities, without the influence of Pro Wresting. :rolleyes:

John_D80

Easy Rod wrote: »

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

Chain Smoker

Saipanne wrote: »

Again, I don't see what this really has to do with the discussion. So what if promotional techniques crossed over?

The reason some of us think they are so different is that one is real combat and the other is made up!

And no, lining up injuries does not matter!

That's overstating the importance of the sport aspect to an organisation like the UFC though. There's a definite interest in providing the matches the audience want over the ones the athletes have earned. A guy who is able to get more casual fans interested will have the company wanting to work it so that he can get as far as possible. The big draws aren't the ones which are likely to be technical marvels, they're the ones they can string together good promo packages for.

A Rogue Hobo

John_D80 wrote:

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

John_D80 wrote:

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

Not sure if you mean me but I didn't say that. I said they were influenced by it. There's a difference. Sonnen has reworked famous wrestlers lines alright, but never blatantly word for word quoted, generally tends to change the location or a name so it applies to him.

John_D80

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Not sure if you mean me but I didn't say that. I said they were influenced by it. There's a difference. Sonnen has reworked famous wrestlers lines alright, but never blatantly word for word quoted, generally tends to change the location or a name so it applies to him.

No I did not mean you at all. I was referring to a post a few pages back by some one else.

Reebrock

John_D80 wrote: »

Sorry but I was responding to a poster that claimed Sonnen and McGregor got their 'dialogue' from Wrestling.

Surely anyone with a stem of sense can see how ludicrous that is?

I have more than a stem of sense, and I think you don't come off well making this statement.

John_D80

Punk is bring a few signature rassling moves with him apparently. Cant wait to see this little doozy in the cage.

John_D80

And of course lets not forget the 'Delayed KO backhander'. My personal favourite.







PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Insect Overlord

John_D80 wrote: »

PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Take Saipanne with you and the rest of us might get back to having a decent discussion. Cheers!

Fromvert

This topic used to get discussed on here all the time years ago. Even as a wrestling fan in the 90s I never thought there were links between the two but there definitely is some, especially the early days. But I don't know all of the history around it.

Chael runs around calling himself 'The Bad Guy', I wonder where he got that from.

A Rogue Hobo

Saipanne wrote:

Because you referenced them.

Sorry missed this post somehow.Actually I just referred to MMA as a whole upon review I'm pretty sure it was you then changed it to specifically UFC I'm assuming to try and prove some sort of point?

Saipanne wrote:

He fought combat sport for real. Not pre determined. In Pancrase? So it's not like he was some guy who only ever performed in pro wrestling and decided to give MMA a go because they're practically the same thing, hence the ease of crossover. These guys were fighters before they entered the world of theatre.

No actually this was before Pancrase was ever formed. This was a fight put on by a pro wrestling company on a pro wrestling card. Pretty sure this was the fight that inspired fellow pro wrestlers Suzuki and Funaki to form Pancrase though I could be wrong.

Reebrock

John_D80 wrote: »

PS: Lads this thread is after becoming an even bigger joke than it already was. I'm outta here. :-)

Take this with you mate and feel a bit silly when the bloke himself proves you wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn1BSiJ-ADs

riffmongous

John_D80 wrote: »

No mate, I'm quite knowledgable on the origins of MMA and in no shape or form was pro wrestling a major influence on it as a sport.

Given, there have been a handful of crossover athletes to be sure but they were almost all to a man, experienced martial artists and/or high school or collegiate wrestlers who just happened to be pro wrestlers as well. But they are very small in number and account for a tiny percentage of MMA fighters even in the early days of the sport and the sport would have flourished with or without them.

No mate, you don't have a clue, Shooto and Pancrase both used pro wrestling rulesets as they were founded by pro-wrestlers, most of their early competitors were former shoot wrestlers. The guy who helped found Pride and made it a popular success,Takada, was a pro-wrestler, RINGS where Fredor, Nogueira and others made their break also started off as a shoot wrestling group by a pro-wrestler Maeda before switching to MMA

ASOT

Jesus lads yous are all mad, who cares.

A Rogue Hobo

ASOT wrote:

Jesus lads yous are all mad, who cares.

Haha sorry. But as a big fan of both wrestling and MMA I can't help but get irritated when someone who has no knowledge acts as if wrestling is for simpletons and waves the MMA flag not realising the hypocrisy of the statement they've just made.

callaway92

John_D80 wrote: »

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

Easy Rod made it easy below for you to understand.

Easy Rod wrote: »

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

alex.middleton

weight is a strange trade off when it comes to cutting and peaking performance I hope cm punk makes the right decision

BOHtox

I wonder will the opposite ever happen? Would McGregor jump at a hundred million dollar contract to the WWE? To add a different perspective to wrestling would they introduce a BJJ expert or even an MMA fighter from any weight to try spice things up in the WWE?

Insect Overlord

Ronda Rousy could turn up from time to time, if last year's Wrestlemania is anything to go by! There were rumours about Chuck Lidell a few years ago if I remember correctly. Only rumours though. Kurt Angle came into WWF (as it was at the time) from Olympic wrestling and became a megastar for a few years. Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn had decent runs back in the 90s. MMA was only in its infancy at the time though.

A Rogue Hobo

BOHtox wrote:

I wonder will the opposite ever happen? Would McGregor jump at a hundred million dollar contract to the WWE? To add a different perspective to wrestling would they introduce a BJJ expert or even an MMA fighter from any weight to try spice things up in the WWE?

It's only a matter of time to be honest. If they were able to throw enough money at Mayweather to get him to do it you'd imagine they could convince anyone really.

chopperbyrne

John_D80 wrote: »

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Sonnen pretty much quoted Superstar Billy Graham word for word after one of his fights.

http://www.cagepotato.com/chael-sonnens-terrible-post-fight-speech-was-actually-ripped-off-from-superstar-billy-graham/

ricero

BOHtox wrote: »

I wonder will the opposite ever happen? Would McGregor jump at a hundred million dollar contract to the WWE? To add a different perspective to wrestling would they introduce a BJJ expert or even an MMA fighter from any weight to try spice things up in the WWE?

Could one day see mcgregor taking part at wrestlemania in some form. Considering you have three high profile irish wrestlers in the company i could see him doing something with them down the line. I imagine he was a big fan of pro wrestling they way he goes on sometimes.

Anyway cm punk what weight will he be fighting at if he does fight ?

The Ayatolla

Hello to all the haterz

Arrow in the Knee

ricero wrote: »

I imagine he was a big fan of pro wrestling they way he goes on sometimes.

I remember when he was being driven around in LV during one of his episodes he said "no chance that's what you got".

That is exactly the same line in Vince and Shane McMahon theme song in WWF/WWE.

So he must of being a fan for a while at least.

Dtp1979

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Hello to all the haterz

Who is that?

Mr. Manager

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Who is that?

Thread title didn't give it away, no?

dave1982

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Who is that?

Brock

cletus

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Who is that?

Greg Jackson. He's a secret unlockable character if you win the world cup on hard l, while keeping all three of your lives

Dtp1979

Mr. Manager wrote: »

Thread title didn't give it away, no?

HHH?

A Primal Nut

BOHtox wrote: »

I wonder will the opposite ever happen? Would McGregor jump at a hundred million dollar contract to the WWE? To add a different perspective to wrestling would they introduce a BJJ expert or even an MMA fighter from any weight to try spice things up in the WWE?

I could see McGregor doing a Mayweather type deal at some point. Let's just hope they don't try to script his promos because that would really suck. I could definitely see Rouesy doing a Lesnar-type deal where she does 3 matches a year, she'd be perfect for WWE and re-vitalise the women's division which they are really trying hard to do.

John_D80 wrote: »

Wait what? You're actually seriously trying to tell me that people like Sonnen and McGregor take some sort of inspiration and/or get ''dialogue'' from Pro Wrestling.

Christ, you do realise that MMA fighters aren't playing ''characters'' dont you? Its very much real, unrehearsed and not staged.

Sorry mate but that is pure and utter bollocks.

It's not scripted but to some extent they are playing characters. I'm sure plenty of guys arrange stunts between themselves to promote fights or at the very least there is an understanding that if one guys insults the other, it's not personal. You seen all the things McGregor said about Aldo and then after the fight he was nice to him. It's not like any of the fighters really hate each other.

One thing about Punk is he was a good talker in WWE because he could be. But for example, in MMA he can't say things like "I am the best in the world" because he would look ridiculous. So he has to be humble which means his promos probably won't be that exciting. If he wins a couple of matches that could change.

Easy Rod

Easy Rod wrote: »

McGregor and Sonnen play exaggerated versions of themselves to sell pay per views. They're cutting promos ala wrestling in order to make more money. "Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck" etc. etc. Josh Barnett is another example of someone who crosses the line into pro wrestling occasionally from his catch wrestling background.

Stop getting offended on behalf of the sport lads. They are fundamentally different but there are comparisons to be made whether you like it or not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ufc/article-3421652/Josh-Barnett-attacked-masked-wrestler-UFC-Fight-Night-New-Jersey-open-workout-not-sport-entertainment.html