Proposed Public sector pay rises

mad m

noodler wrote: »

Was annual leave cut? I know privlige days were simply given back as annual leave.

Anyone over 35K lost a days annual leave over 3 years, anyone over 55k (I think) lost 6 days over 3 years. They had the option to buy annual leave back.

Can't see the PRD being dropped, or is it?

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

Who are the private sector gardai,army and govt departments?


What private sector post offices,fire brigades,,Roadsweepers and dole offices?

Ask the unions and politicians who bench marked them against the private sector during the benchmarking exercise TWICE

jcon1913

The Muppet wrote: »

At least you have the option not to pay into a pension. Public servants were not given that option.

What we are talking about here is a reversal of the cuts implemented as an emergency measure now that the emergency is over.

Don't you think its hypocritical that when the pension levy was introduced there was a refusal form your camp to recognize it as a pay cut, yet now that there is talk or removing the levy you would see that as a pay rise?

Do you accept that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy? As presented in the evidence a few posts back?

If you do then the cutbacks for public sector staff should stay ''in the round'. In other words maybe lower paid people could get raises, to be fairer, and cut the salaries of the higher paid employees. But in the round all taken together there should be no raises in the public service.

As pointed out by previous posters we are still borrowing at a ferocious rate when we are deep in debt. I think people will accept that a level of public debt is acceptable, but that it is out of proportion to the economy as a whole. The national debt needs to be paid down before we get ahead of ourselves with more pay rises for the public sector.

Rightwing

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Who is the small retailer paying €120,000?

Is it make-believe or will you get an answer I wonder ?

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

I was paid 12% less than my private sector counterpart and took my cuts also so please don't pretend that they didn't happen. I'll take your third round of Benchmarking tomorrow. The only problem will be your moaning as increases are awarded .

Well then feel free to leave and join the private sector

chopper6

I love it! The pension levy wasn't seen as a pay cut when it happened... But now its to be abolishd its being seen as a pay rise.

Then of course there's the 50% premium in wages the PS enjoys...how long has this been going on now?

This is like a debate about Nigerians getting free cars.." My mate down the pub knows somebody who says.."

fliball123

Godge wrote: »

I have posted about this before.

Allergan Pharmaceuticals, Astellas, Braun, Covidien, Henkel, Leo Pharma, Medtronic, Nestle, Novartis, Pfizer, Analog Devices, Cargotec, Glen Dimplex, Hasbro, Liebherr Container Cranes, Novum, Radionics, Rusal Aughinish, Thermo Air, Vitabond, Boliden Tara Mines, Kingspan, Britvic, Dawn Pok & Bacon, Dew Valley Foods, Glanbia, Irish Distillers, Lakeland Dairies, Largo Foods, Pepsico, Heatons, Indesit, Tesco, Boots, Dunnes, Arnotts, Bank of Ireland, Irish Life, Eircom and SR Technics are a sample of companies that have given a pay increase in the last year.

I could provide more names but from the list above, it is clear that pay increases are now widespread across the private sector economy.

Now go through them again and tell me how many are borrowing billions to keep afloat this year otherwise your post in nonsense

chopper6

Rightwing wrote: »

Is it make-believe or will you get an answer I wonder ?

I didn't say the retailer was small...her buying crew is fewer than 20 people. The total staff is about 400.


But why is she getting paid more than the Spanish prime minister?

And not even paying the pension levy?

The private sector have a cushy life.

I've heard of people getting 600 euro a day for sitting in front of a computer too...disgraceful.. It sums up the private sector to a tee

The Muppet

jcon1913 wrote: »

Do you accept that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy? As presented in the evidence a few posts back?

If you do then the cutbacks for public sector staff should stay ''in the round'. In other words maybe lower paid people could get raises, to be fairer, and cut the salaries of the higher paid employees. But in the round all taken together there should be no raises in the public service.

As pointed out by previous posters we are still borrowing at a ferocious rate when we are deep in debt. I think people will accept that a level of public debt is acceptable, but that it is out of proportion to the economy as a whole. The national debt needs to be paid down before we get ahead of ourselves with more pay rises for the public sector.

The removal of the pension levy would not be a pay rise would it as gross salary would not be increasing? I'm pretty sure the reverse argument was used here when the levy was introduced.

LordNorbury

Uncle Ben wrote: »

If the above didn't happen in 08 or 09 it's not gonna happen now. The financial emergency is over. The employer, (Govt) have stated that. Oh and by the way performance reviews are undertaken on an annual basis. It's just unfortunate it would appear for some, that IBEC don't carry them out.

Exactly, we've wasted a good crisis and we were never going to get credible meaningful reforms of the public sector with a Labour government who have always pandered to the Irish public service, who tend to be highly unionised and therefore affiliated with the Labour Party.

This is why this current government is detested and hated so much, Kenny promised a 'democratic revolution', he swore he would properly reform the broken systems of state, and here we are back facing into another election with all the same problems only a lot worse, more people than ever languishing on hospital trollies, more people than ever on waiting lists, more people than ever losing the roof over their heads because they are being priced out of a home by their landlord, more money being handed over to the state in the form of a property tax, a water tax and loads more hidden taxes and charges, to pay for what is still a hopelessly broken system of public administration.

What we are witnessing in this country is a massive transfer from the private sector taxpayer and the public sector taxpayer, (because both have to pay a property tax and a water tax and next will be a broadcasting tax, mandatory pension payments/tax and mandatory health insurance/tax).

The system of public administration in this country is now so broken and so hopelessly inefficient, that after taxing every home in the land to the tune of 400 odd Euro, having placed a water tax on every home to the tune of 200 Euro or whatever it is, having introduced a Universal Social Charge on every income to the tune of 7% I think it is, after all this transfer of wealth has now taken place, we still have a broken system, we are pumping as much money in at one end to keep people happy, we have to borrow another 8 billion Euro a year to pump in on top of that, but at the other end, nothing works right, we are just keeping people from striking and we are just about managing to do that at the moment, if you look at the teachers.

Baggy Trousers

Uncle Ben wrote: »

If the above didn't happen in 08 or 09 it's not gonna happen now. The financial emergency is over. The employer, (Govt) have stated that. Oh and by the way performance reviews are undertaken on an annual basis. It's just unfortunate it would appear for some, that IBEC don't carry them out.

I read somewhere that IBEC took a temporary 5% paycut 4 or 5 years ago and it has not been removed yet.

Baggy Trousers

LordNorbury wrote: »

Exactly, we've wasted a good crisis and we were never going to get credible meaningful reforms of the public sector with a Labour government who have always pandered to the Irish public service, who tend to be highly unionised and therefore affiliated with the Labour Party.

This is why this current government is detested and hated so much, Kenny promised a 'democratic revolution', he swore he would properly reform the broken systems of state, and here we are back facing into another election with all the same problems only a lot worse, more people than ever languishing on hospital trollies, more people than ever on waiting lists, more people than ever losing the roof over their heads because they are being priced out of a home by their landlord, more money being handed over to the state in the form of a property tax, a water tax and loads more hidden taxes and charges, to pay for what is still a hopelessly broken system of public administration.

What we are witnessing in this country is a massive transfer from the private sector taxpayer and the public sector taxpayer, (because both have to pay a property tax and a water tax and next will be a broadcasting tax, mandatory pension payments/tax and mandatory health insurance/tax).

The system of public administration in this country is now so broken and so hopelessly inefficient, that after taxing every home in the land to the tune of 400 odd Euro, having placed a water tax on every home to the tune of 200 Euro or whatever it is, having introduced a Universal Social Charge on every income to the tune of 7% I think it is, after all this transfer of wealth has now taken place, we still have a broken system, we are pumping as much money in at one end to keep people happy, we have to borrow another 8 billion Euro a year to pump in on top of that, but at the other end, nothing works right, we are just keeping people from striking and we are just about managing to do that at the moment, if you look at the teachers.

+1000

Rightwing

chopper6 wrote: »

I didn't say the retailer was small...her buying crew is fewer than 20 people. The total staff is about 400.


But why is she getting paid more than the Spanish prime minister?

And not even paying the pension levy?

The private sector have a cushy life.

I've heard of people getting 600 euro a day for sitting in front of a computer too...disgraceful.. It sums up the private sector to a tee

I've heard of punters in the PS making €5K a day and they to the horse meetings. That doesn't necessarily make the story true of course.

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

At least you have the option not to pay into a pension. Public servants were not given that option.

What we are talking about here is a reversal of the cuts implemented as an emergency measure now that the emergency is over.

Don't you think its hypocritical that when the pension levy was introduced there was a refusal from your camp to recognize it as a pay cut, yet now that there is talk or removing the levy you would see that as a pay rise?

This is true defined benefit pensions should be outlawed as it falls on the tax payer to cover when they to t1ts up

You see this is where things get petty..I say its a contribution to a defined benefit as can be seen as it is taken out before tax. You will say its a pay cut as it brings you pay down..

Alternatively you will say that increments are not payrises..I will say they are as they bring your pay up..

You say its a removal of the pension levy and not a payrise and I say it is a payrise your pay goes up and unfortunately in order to cover this more has to be taken from my back pocket to pay it.

Its all semantics and not worth the arguing being honest but the bit in bold is where the unfairness of it all kicks in

chopper6

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I read somewhere that IBEC took a temporary 5% paycut 4 or 5 years ago and it has not been removed yet.

Ibec is a union...what are you talking about?

Godge

jcon1913 wrote: »

Do you accept that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy? As presented in the evidence a few posts back?

If you do then the cutbacks for public sector staff should stay ''in the round'. In other words maybe lower paid people could get raises, to be fairer, and cut the salaries of the higher paid employees. But in the round all taken together there should be no raises in the public service.

As pointed out by previous posters we are still borrowing at a ferocious rate when we are deep in debt. I think people will accept that a level of public debt is acceptable, but that it is out of proportion to the economy as a whole. The national debt needs to be paid down before we get ahead of ourselves with more pay rises for the public sector.

Listen, there is no evidence that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy.

The only link provided was by you way back at the start of this thread, purportedly an ECB study which as I pointed out below was based on old data.

You still haven't answered the points raised.

Godge wrote: »

The problem is that your European Central Bank study was based on 2007 data as I have already pointed out, before ALL of the pay cuts and pension levys in the public service and before ALL of the pay increases since 2010 in the private sector.

Nobody knows what the premium is, nobody even knows if there is still a premium, nobody knows should there be a premium. For example, in the public sector men and women are paid equally well, but in the private sector women are paid much less than men. Should the comparison therefore be based only on men's pay as the greater equality (which we all should look for) distorts upwards public sector pay? Similarly, to what extent do we adjust for education levels? Should there be a premium for being educated? Should an adjustment be made for the fact that the public service have contracted out lower-paid cleaning and maintenance jobs?

This is the problem with the superficial comparisons made and the lack of investigative detail, there is a huge difference between the public and private sectors, why wouldn't pay be different, and how best to tell whether it is fair?

What annoys me about these threads is that rather than having a discussion about the evidence, or more particularly, the quality of the evidence, certain posters drag it down to the level of an anti-public service rant.

BoJack Horseman

chopper6 wrote: »

I didn't say the retailer was small...her buying crew is fewer than 20 people. The total staff is about 400.


But why is she getting paid more than the Spanish prime minister?

And not even paying the pension levy?

The private sector have a cushy life.

I've heard of people getting 600 euro a day for sitting in front of a computer too...disgraceful.. It sums up the private sector to a tee

Once the company turns a profit, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

The government is losing vast sums year on year.

Pay rises at a multi-billion loss making organisation are rare.

Celticfire

fliball123 wrote: »

Well then feel free to leave and join the private sector

It can't really be that bad seeing as you returned from your fantasy emigration to Australia a while ago after vowing to never return Do you not miss your walks on the beach??

I've no interest in leaving my job thanks all the same but by the same token I don't feel the need to denigrate a whole section of society by calming that I know every facet of their work lives. I made my choice where to work and I'm quite happy with it and you by returning to the country you vowed never to set foot in again are obviously at your happiest when moaning about other peoples pay.

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

This is true defined benefit pensions should be outlawed as it falls on the tax payer to cover when they to t1ts up

You see this is where things get petty..I say its a contribution to a defined benefit as can be seen as it is taken out before tax. You will say its a pay cut as it brings you pay down..

Alternatively you will say that increments are not payrises..I will say they are as they bring your pay up..

You say its a removal of the pension levy and not a payrise and I say it is a payrise your pay goes up and unfortunately in order to cover this more has to be taken from my back pocket to pay it.

Its all semantics and not worth the arguing being honest but the bit in bold is where the unfairness of it all kicks in

You have kids don't you?

Why should I have to subsidise YOUR children's allowance out of MY back pocket?

fliball123

Godge wrote: »

Listen, there is no evidence that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy.

The only link provided was by you way back at the start of this thread, purportedly an ECB study which as I pointed out below was based on old data.

You still haven't answered the points raised.

There is also no evidence that they are underpaid

Baggy Trousers

chopper6 wrote: »

Ibec is a union...what are you talking about?

IBEC is "the employers union" but is also a private company that has employees that are paid. It get's it's revenue from member company subscriptions.
Those employees took a temporary pay cut 4 or 5 years ago that is still to be reinstated.

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

It can't really be that bad seeing as you returned from your fantasy emigration to Australia a while ago after vowing to never return Do you not miss your walks on the beach??

I've no interest in leaving my job thanks all the same but by the same token I don't feel the need to denigrate a whole section of society by calming that I know every facet of their work lives. I made my choice where to work and I'm quite happy with it and you by returning to the country you vowed never to set foot in again are obviously at your happiest when moaning about other peoples pay.

I came back as my dad was sick is that ok with you ? you moron? my private life has nothing to do with this discussion and its typical of you when your losing the fight you go all personal ..

jank

ezra_pound wrote: »

I'm sorry but Your rant does not effect the law. The legal situation is that if we are no longer in a state of emergency, then the pay cuts have no legal standing and will fall.

If you don't understand the crux of the matter then find something simpler to rant about that you have the intellectual faculty to grasp.

The simple solution to this would be to make the cuts permanent.

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

You have kids don't you?

Why should I have to subsidise YOUR children's allowance out of MY back pocket?

Sorry but the taxation both my wife and I pay more than covers any childrens allowance I get, I have health care so you dont pay for medical bills, I have him in private schooling so you dont pay for his ecuation is that alright with you buddy ?????

So how about this I take back all of my taxation I pay and you can have your phucking childrens allowance back

jank

The Muppet wrote: »

At least you have the option not to pay into a pension. Public servants were not given that option.

What we are talking about here is a reversal of the cuts implemented as an emergency measure now that the emergency is over.

Don't you think its hypocritical that when the pension levy was introduced there was a refusal from your camp to recognize it as a pay cut, yet now that there is talk or removing the levy you would see that as a pay rise?

By all means take away the Pension levy but one should then take away the Pension that comes with it.

Godge

fliball123 wrote: »

I came back as my dad was sick is that ok with you ? you moron? my private life has nothing to do with this discussion and its typical of you when your losing the fight you go all personal ..

It has nothing to do with your private life.

What is clearly annoying that poster is that someone who just fecked off to Australia when things got tough in Ireland and the rest of us stayed to fix things up, that someone can then come back and think he can tell us all what to do. If you had stayed and tried to start a business and create jobs, your views would have much more weight.

Godge

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry but the taxation both my wife and I pay more than covers any childrens allowance I get, I have health care so you dont pay for medical bills, I have him in private schooling so you dont pay for his ecuation is that alright with you buddy ?????

So how about this I take back all of my taxation I pay and you can have your phucking childrens allowance back

(1) Private education is subsidised.
(2) Private medical care is subsidised.

You are not paying the full cost of either.

jcon1913

chopper6 wrote: »

I love it! The pension levy wasn't seen as a pay cut when it happened... But now its to be abolishd its being seen as a pay rise.

Then of course there's the 50% premium in wages the PS enjoys...how long has this been going on now?

This is like a debate about Nigerians getting free cars.." My mate down the pub knows somebody who says.."

Heres a few links to articles which state that public sector people are paid 50% more that private sector people

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/public-sectorprivate-sector-pay-divide-is-now-at-50pc-30785004.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

Godge

jcon1913 wrote: »

Heres a few links to articles which state that public sector people are paid 50% more that private sector people

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/public-sectorprivate-sector-pay-divide-is-now-at-50pc-30785004.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

Marc Coleman used to work in the public sector and left, he has a chip on his shoulder.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

This is true defined benefit pensions should be outlawed as it falls on the tax payer to cover when they to t1ts up

You see this is where things get petty..I say its a contribution to a defined benefit as can be seen as it is taken out before tax. You will say its a pay cut as it brings you pay down..

Alternatively you will say that increments are not payrises..I will say they are as they bring your pay up..

You say its a removal of the pension levy and not a payrise and I say it is a payrise your pay goes up and unfortunately in order to cover this more has to be taken from my back pocket to pay it.

Its all semantics and not worth the arguing being honest but the bit in bold is where the unfairness of it all kicks in

Perhaps you should change the thread title as we are not really talking about a pay rise for the PS at all.

Your lumping all Public service workers together ignoring the fact that a large chunk of them are quite poorly paid. In 2013 nearly 4000 public servants were in receipt of the family income supplement, how can they get that that if they are overpaid?

link

fliball123

Godge wrote: »

It has nothing to do with your private life.

What is clearly annoying that poster is that someone who just fecked off to Australia when things got tough in Ireland and the rest of us stayed to fix things up, that someone can then come back and think he can tell us all what to do. If you had stayed and tried to start a business and create jobs, your views would have much more weight.

I went to Austrailia for a myriad of reasons. I was offered a job that i could not refuse and was more or less told the job I was in was in danger, not to mention things like the weather and experiencing a new culture for a change and I was only gone about a year sure fecking most people do that while they are young. So I missed a year of it...

Start a business during the bust are you phucking crazy have you seen whats on offer for the self employed..Thats right Johnny because you decided to try and create a new job while no one had money you now have nothing left and as a bonus your not even entitled to the dole...

So dont preach to me when of my years one of them was living away ok

I have been paying taxes since I was 14 so I am entitled to ask the question what the hell does my taxes pay for and more importantly then the t1thead howlin says he is giving payrises when we are still borrowing I am entitled as a tax payer to ask the man where is he getting this money..Now is that ok with you

not yet

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry but the taxation both my wife and I pay more than covers any childrens allowance I get, I have health care so you dont pay for medical bills, I have him in private schooling so you dont pay for his ecuation is that alright with you buddy ?????

So how about this I take back all of my taxation I pay and you can have your phucking childrens allowance back

A round of applause for this man please......

You do accept that the average wage in the PS includes every single salary from The muppet Kenny and all his advisors to consultants on 250k...

Whilst the Private sector excludes managing directors, bank managers etc etc, hence the average wage will look higher in the Public sector.

jcon1913

Godge wrote: »

Listen, there is no evidence that the public sector are overpaid relative to the rest of the economy.

The only link provided was by you way back at the start of this thread, purportedly an ECB study which as I pointed out below was based on old data.

You still haven't answered the points raised.

Look at recent posts for more up to date articles and comments.

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

(1) Private education is subsidised.
(2) Private medical care is subsidised.

You are not paying the full cost of either.

You are over paying, once taxation is factored in.

fliball123

Godge wrote: »

(1) Private education is subsidised.
(2) Private medical care is subsidised.

You are not paying the full cost of either.

Subsidised by mine and my wifes taxation. No one else pays a cent for me and my family we are net contributors to the tax take in this country

Put it this way if I was to stop paying tax altogether and paid for a private tutor and paid everytime anyone in my family had to go to the doctor or hospital I would be a lot more well off

Celticfire

fliball123 wrote: »

I came back as my dad was sick is that ok with you ? you moron? my private life has nothing to do with this discussion and its typical of you when your losing the fight you go all personal ..

Strange , I remember you said you came back because your wife wouldn't settle. I guess you've forgotton parts of your fable.

You put that story up on this very forum as a testament to how you couldn't stand to stay here because of public sector pay and conditions. You were caught out back then and I feel it's a testament to the type of character you are. It's a waste of phucking time trying to debate with you....... Your mind is well made up...you should just start a blog or submit op ed articles to The Journal

jcon1913

Godge wrote: »

Marc Coleman used to work in the public sector and left, he has a chip on his shoulder.

Can you deal with the facts here rather than petty points about individuals.

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

Perhaps you should change the thread title as we are not really talking about a pay rise for the PS at all.

Your lumping all Public service workers together ignoring the fact that a large chunk of them are quite poorly paid. In 2013 nearly 4000 public servants were in receipt of the family income supplement, how can they get that that if they are overpaid?

How many people in the private sector are on a par with those wages?

fliball123

not yet wrote: »

A round of applause for this man please......

You do accept that the average wage in the PS includes every single salary from The muppet Kenny and all his advisors to consultants on 250k...

Whilst the Private sector excludes managing directors, bank managers etc etc, hence the average wage will look higher in the Public sector.

How do you know it excludes bank mangers I would hazard a guess that there are more high paying private sector jobs skewing the figures for the private sector than those in the public sector...You also completely ignore the point of the fact your employer the state has to borrow anywhere in the region of 5 - 8 billion this year...

Larbre34

jcon1913 wrote: »

Heres a few links to articles which state that public sector people are paid 50% more that private sector people

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/public-sectorprivate-sector-pay-divide-is-now-at-50pc-30785004.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/public-sector-pay-rates-nearly-50-higher-than-those-in-private-sector-1.1907313

"Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service" say IBEC, yet they don't ever demonstrate adjusted figures.

Qualifications, experience and length of service dont even tell the full story, you also have to adjust for the job types, fry cooks and night security and retail and all those thousands of roles that dont have an analogy in the public sector.

I have worked in both sectors and I can tell you that where it comes to professional roles, solicitors, accountants, engineers; based on responsibility level, project size, work load, public sector salaries are far less than their opposite numbers in private firms. The pensions are better certainly, but the salary levels simply are not and thats even not including bonuses.

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

Strange , I remember you said you came back because your wife wouldn't settle. I guess you've forgotton parts of your fable.

You put that story up on this very forum as a testament to how you couldn't stand to stay here because of public sector pay and conditions. You were caught out back then and I feel it's a testament to the type of character you are. It's a waste of phucking time trying to debate with you....... Your mind is well made up...you should just start a blog or submit op ed articles to The Journal

yeah she couldnt settle either there were a number of factors that played into the decision..we also wanted our son to know his grandparents before they pass away..Which was the main reason why she could not settle...

Why are you and godge getting so personal on this..i did state at the time that the place was going under and that we were bring over taxed and we are over taxed when both direct and indirect taxation kick in here.

You see I see this from my point of view not yours or any one elses in the Public sector. I have said many times I think some in the ps do great work and probably deserve the pay they are on..A lot dont .. The problem is I get to pay for all of the good and all of the bad and while the conditions of payrises for length of service, and paying for a pension while others cannot pay for their own continue..my mind will stay made up..

As I say not one of you have come back to me with any coherant area where this money for a payrise is coming from?

noodler

Godge wrote: »

It has nothing to do with your private life.

What is clearly annoying that poster is that someone who just fecked off to Australia when things got tough in Ireland and the rest of us stayed to fix things up, that someone can then come back and think he can tell us all what to do. If you had stayed and tried to start a business and create jobs, your views would have much more weight.

Would you ever feck off with that crap.

The Muppet

fliball123 wrote: »

yeah she couldnt settle either there were a number of factors that played into the decision..we also wanted our son to know his grandparents before they pass away..Which was the main reason why she could not settle...


As I say not one of you have come back to me with any coherant area where this money for a payrise is coming from?

Which Pay rise?

fliball123

The Muppet wrote: »

Which Pay rise?

The payrises that Howling is spouting about

Larbre34

fliball123 wrote: »

The payrises that Howling is spouting about

Its not a payrise, its a pending lapse of an emergency piece of legislation which needs annual renewal

Labour wont dare renew it this close to an election as it will finish them, so it wont pass in the Dáil in its current form.

Lets call it a restoration.

fliball123

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its not a payrise, its a pending lapse of an emergency piece of legislation which needs annual renewal

Labour wont dare renew it this close to an election as it will finish them, so it wont pass in the Dáil in its current form.

Lets call it a restoration.

Does the ps pay bill go up = Yes
Does the pay that goes to the individual employee go up = YES
Does the tax payer have to give more for theis = YES

Anyway you cut it..this is a payrise, what you are arguing is semantics

You could call the pay cuts reverse benchmarking

Ctrl Alt Delete

Rezident wrote: »

Hours have gotten longer here (fair enough), pay was cut by around 15% including pension levy etc. fair enough, there were a lot of cutbacks to benefits etc. a lot of little things, but they really do add up. And they were the reason we moved here. A lot of people, like myself, who moved from the private sector here for a better 'work life balance' are now seriously considering leaving because the famed 'shorter hours' are not a reality where I work (maybe they are elsewhere?) and we're getting payed less than similar jobs in financial services. Yes there is a good defined benefit pension at the end, but, I'll take the money now instead please Bob!

Brain drain in public sector is not just well underway I'd go so far as to say it's endemic at this stage.

What non Public Sector people don't realise is that Haddington Road effectively put Private Sector working conditions for Public Sector pay scales into the Civil / Public Service.

For me that meant my work / life balance in the Public Sector was decimated and so had no incentive to stay, I took a career break and returned to the Private Sector on an extra €25,000 a year pay difference (I always did get giggles how Public Sector are supposedly paid more than the Private Sector)

Anyone with the skills , experience or qualifications have well gotten out if they can at this stage and whats left in the main is the "career coasters".

JPF82

Well this has turned into a sh!tstorm on all sides. Let's just have a race to the bottom where we pay everybody less and less because we just dislike what they do and we think everybody else's job is easier or less important that what we do ourselves.

By all means, there are overpaid staff at higher levels in PS, that needs addressing. However a lot of "facts" regarding wages here are not comparing like with like and people sound like they are just annoyed and bitter with their lot. And this goes for both sides of the argument.

PS employees pay taxes too btw so the "I pay their wages" argument is fairly hollow.

Starting salaries for graduates in the private sector company I worked for are about 23k. That is slightly less than when I started and after 18 months I was earning 40k. I took a 10% cut when my company had major financial problems in the crash. I left to travel and came back after a year of traveling and I was offered 13k more by another company. Increased Taxes and rent eroded most of that though.

So now, to my point, What is the comparitive starting salary for a new graduate with a honours degree in the public sector?

As stated, I will be working in the PS soon enough and I am well aware I am taking a huge pay cut.

Ctrl Alt Delete

fliball123 wrote: »

You also completely ignore the point of the fact your employer the state has to borrow anywhere in the region of 5 - 8 billion this year...

Your also failing to see (as most do) that the Public Service isn't a company and never will be.

nice example formula for you:

Protesting Nurses + 4,000 retiring over 3 years = record number of 600 people waiting for bed

Our newly qualified doctors and nurses have left en masse to the UK and further afield.

You don't pay decent wages you start seeing the above and then of course it suddenly "mismanagement".

fliball123

JPF82 wrote: »

Well this has turned into a sh!tstorm on all sides. Let's just have a race to the bottom where we pay everybody less and less because we just dislike what they do and we think everybody else's job is easier or less important that what we do ourselves.

By all means, there are overpaid staff at higher levels in PS, that needs addressing. However a lot of "facts" regarding wages here are not comparing like with like and people sound like they are just annoyed and bitter with their lot. And this goes for both sides of the argument.

PS employees pay taxes too btw so the "I pay their wages" argument is fairly hollow.

Starting salaries for graduates in the private sector company I worked for are about 23k. That is slightly less than when I started and after 18 months I was earning 40k. I took a 10% cut when my company had major financial problems in the crash. I left to travel and came back after a year of traveling and I was offered 13k more by another company. Increased Taxes and rent eroded most of that though.

So now, to my point, What is the comparitive starting salary for a new graduate with a honours degree in the public sector?

As stated, I will be working in the PS soon enough and I am well aware I am taking a huge pay cut.

You see this is where your wrong this is not a race.This is simply a balancing act if these payrises go through it means less in the pocket for private sector employees..there is no race to the bottom it is at a point now where everyone is looking at their own take home pay and do not want it to shink any further...If howlin gives a payrise it means it comes out of my pocket it is that simple