Now Ye're Talking - To A Man With 2 Mothers

Tigger

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'd answered this at the top of page two, but I'll expand on it some more, as I did breeze over it a bit.

My father was a very good friend of my biological mother, and a gay man himself. From what I know, I get my looks from him (the dashing man) and still have a photo of him from the early 80's. My mother asked him if he'd be willing to be my father, and said yes. I believe it took a few months to work it all out, but then it was done.

It was agreed at the time he would have no direct influence on my life, but that I would be given his contact details should I ever wish to track him down.
I have those details, but never really felt the need to do so.

Hope that answers your question!

Why not?
Did he have any more kids
Do you know do you care?
Do you hear him animosity or apathy ?

Sonics2k

Tigger wrote: »

Why not?
Did he have any more kids
Do you know do you care?
Do you hear him animosity or apathy ?

I had no real urge or want to contact him throughout my life. My biological mother told me everything about him that she knew, and now and then we'd discuss him a little bit. She'd speak about him as an old friend from long ago, and that's all I ever needed really.

I don't know if he had more kids, again it's not something that ever really jumped out at me. It's not that I don't care, it's more that this man is only my father in a biological sense. I know that can seem cold to some people, but my own mothers were fantastic parents who looked after me and raised me. In my eyes and heart, they are my parents.

As an example, a relative of mine was raised by his mother and step-father. He had little to no contact with his birth father throughout his life, and while he did of course (like all teenagers) whine and moan about his step father, he does still to do this day look at this man as his real father. The man who raised him and looked after him. We'd consider that quite normal and to be expected.

The option has always been there, for both of us, to find our fathers and maybe get to know them more, but we've both always known who are parents and family are.

That is exactly how I feel about my own parents.

Tigger

Sonics2k wrote: »

I had no real urge or want to contact him throughout my life. My biological mother told me everything about him that she knew, and now and then we'd discuss him a little bit. She'd speak about him as an old friend from long ago, and that's all I ever needed really.

I don't know if he had more kids, again it's not something that ever really jumped out at me. It's not that I don't care, it's more that this man is only my father in a biological sense. I know that can seem cold to some people, but my own mothers were fantastic parents who looked after me and raised me. In my eyes and heart, they are my parents.

As an example, a relative of mine was raised by his mother and step-father. He had little to no contact with his birth father throughout his life, and while he did of course (like all teenagers) whine and moan about his step father, he does still to do this day look at this man as his real father. The man who raised him and looked after him. We'd consider that quite normal and to be expected.

The option has always been there, for both of us, to find our fathers and maybe get to know them more, but we've both always known who are parents and family are.

That is exactly how I feel about my own parents.

So apathy ?

Sonics2k

Tigger wrote: »

So apathy ?

Ugh, this is actually one that had me scratching my head all morning. Apathy feels like a word that's a bit too strong, but is the most apt at the same time.

It's not that I don't care at all, if I were to meet the man if he showed up in my life or if I found out he had passed I would obviously react to that in a strong way.

You stumped me a bit on defining this one Tigger. I'm not quite apathetic about my feelings toward him, but I can't really find a better word for it.

Annasopra

What do you think about the marriage equality debate?

Do you know anyone who has a parent or parents who are trans?

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

That is exactly how I feel about my own parents.

I think in your position I would be 100% the same - I would have little or no interest in pursuing the father and making him part of my life.

What I think would give me some pause though - is the question of whether I have siblings out there by that father. Does this offer any more of an emotional pull for you than the father himself does?

I guess my siblings have always been important to me and a central part of my life - so the whole area of siblings is close to my heart - so the idea I might have other siblings out there would certainly give me some emotional pause - and some emotional tugs - even if I did not decide ultimately to follow it up.

Sonics2k

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What do you think about the marriage equality debate?

Do you know anyone who has a parent or parents who are trans?

I've been watching some of the debates, but I honestly have a hard time sitting through many of them.

I've grown tired of this nonsense phrasing of "traditional marriage" and so forth and I can't help but laugh at it. We live in a world where you can get a Drive-Thru marriage, which is completely and utterly legally recognised, even by religions, as being a completely legit marriage. Even though it's called tacky and scoffed at, nobody really turns around and says "Well yeah, but it wasn't done like a traditional marriage, was it?"

We live in a world were bigamy and polygamy are considered fine in a few forms of Christianity (Mormons for example), but not others, and yet are considered by many as a "traditional marriage". It's a complete hypocrisy when those who call out for traditional marriage can't even agree on what's supposed to be traditional in the first place.

When it comes to discussion on gay couples having children, it bothers me. It used to make me angry, but not I just get upset and and pity the person who seems to think a parents sexuality will impact the raising of a child in any real way, especially in a damaging way.
I feel a genuine pity for anyone who is so clearly at a loss when it comes to forming a coherent argument that they must leap on a persons sexual activity as a sign of whether or not they are going to be a good parent.

The odds are we know people are who into BDSM or roleplay, or simply don't have any sex at all anymore, and yet we don't really work these things into account when it comes to raising kids. What a pair/group etc of consenting adults do in in privacy of their own bedroom is only their business.

As for Trans people. Well I'll be frank and say I've only ever personally known a few trans people in my life, each of whom was just like any other person. Again, I can see no logical reason why they should not have children, as long as they are treat and raise their kids like anyone else.

As a close on the debate on itself. I think the Pro-Side should calm down a little bit, I see people jumping to shout the word bigot and homophobe quite a lot, and that's not a good thing in a debate. A person who is genuinely not sure about how to should not be called a homophobe outright, we should instead focus on topics like this. Show them the kids of gay and lesbian parents, especially the adult kids. Show them we're no more screwed up than anyone else is.

Sonics2k

Deleted User wrote: »

I think in your position I would be 100% the same - I would have little or no interest in pursuing the father and making him part of my life.

What I think would give me some pause though - is the question of whether I have siblings out there by that father. Does this offer any more of an emotional pull for you than the father himself does?

I guess my siblings have always been important to me and a central part of my life - so the whole area of siblings is close to my heart - so the idea I might have other siblings out there would certainly give me some emotional pause - and some emotional tugs - even if I did not decide ultimately to follow it up.

It did occur to me for a while that I may have siblings out there, but again never really grabbed me. As I said earlier, my father was a gay man, and so far as I know this was a once off as he and my mother were very good friends. I suppose it's possible he offered to do it again, but I never really wanted a brother or a sister!

In my life I guess I had my cousin, who'd be like an older brother to me in many ways. He was always more the laddish type who was pretty popular. There's also my best friend, who I met in 1st year in secondary school. We basically grew up together and while we got a bit more distant in our 20s (something I regret) I've pretty much always considered him family too.

Cabaal

Sonics2k, thank you for taking the time to post here, I actually found out about this thread from the Irish Indo article about it - http://www.independent.ie/life/family/my-mother-taught-me-how-to-shave-frankly-did-a-better-job-than-my-neighbours-father-irish-man-with-two-mothers-does-qa-on-boardsie-30929189.html

My question is, have you ever been approached by either side in relation to marriage equality debates and questioned about your experiences or asked to speak on radio/tv?

If you were asked would you speak on radio/tv?
I'd imagine your first hand experiences could offer great insight to the average joe who will be voting in May, it could be a very good thing as it would off-set much of the baseless fear mongering by an organization that is very much against marriage equality.

Sonics2k

Cabaal wrote: »

Sonics2k, thank you for taking the time to post here, I actually found out about this thread from the Irish Indo article about it.

My question is, have ever been approached by either side in relation to marriage equality debates and questioned about your experiences or asked to speak on radio/tv?

If you were asked would you speak on radio/tv?
I'd imagine your first hand experiences could offer great insight to the average joe who will be voting in May, it could be a very good thing.

Hi Cabaal.

I didn't actually realise this had made it to national news to be completely honest. My fiancée actually found it and read it out to me!

So far I have received one contact from an Irish newpaper asking if I'd be interested in speaking to them, my answer was yes of course. I obviously won't name the paper, as I don't really know how these things work.

I would be happy to speak publicly on radio, despite not being a fantastic public speaker I'd definitely say my part.

In truth, part of the reason I asked to hold this AMA is because I have noticed a complete lack of attention being actually shown to living children of gay couples, there are quite a few of us out there. I can't think of any actual article I've read recently (though I may have missed some of course), or heard anything on the radio, with the child of a gay couple, and this is a big loss.

My dream really and truthfully, is to sit down and speak directly to someone, anyone, from Iona or similar that is going to look me in the eye and tell me my parents weren't "proper" because of their sexual preference.

Even the ones who have read this very thread haven't really said anything. The reason is simple. They can't say directly because they know it's not actually true. Sure they can be awkward about it, but few really and truly -believe- a gay person is actually a lesser being.

Shrap

Sonics2k wrote: »

My dream really and truthfully, is to sit down and speak directly to someone, anyone, from Iona or similar that is going to look me in the eye and tell me my parents weren't "proper" because of their sexual preference.

I don't say this much, as I don't believe in any higher power, but just....


bless you.

oceanclub

In truth, part of the reason I asked to hold this AMA is because I have noticed a complete lack of attention being actually shown to living children of gay couples,

I know it's a BIG thing to ask but I really would love if people like yourself did come out and speak more. As, given the vacuum, it will be filled by religious conservatives speaking on your behalf.

Cheers for a very informative thread!

P.

Luke92

Sonics2k wrote: »

With that said, I also have a dark humour, I will joke and mock anyone and anything (including gay jokes) because I try not to take offense by things, rather look for the humour. I truly think the world in general would be better if we all did that.

That's crazy! You sound so much like me haha. I was raised by my single mother but I had an uncle that lived in the family home until I was 15, he was gay and was basically my father figure, but like him I have a very dark humour and nothing is off limits. He will even crack a gay joke no problem. And I'm the same too, don't hate anyone down to skin colour or religion I just hate everyone equally!

Two of my uncles friends (a male couple) have 2 kids of their own. Done it through surrogacy but had do go through India (one is half Indian so I don't know if this is why) and it cost them a fortune to do!

mfceiling

Great thread Sonic.

My wife has a good friend who is in a lesbian relationship and they've just had their first child. They came to stay with us before xmas and the love they both showed that baby would put you to shame!! They are having trouble getting the "non parent" to get custody of the baby should god forbid anything happen the "biological mother".

Did any girlfriends in your early courting days (can't believe I typed that) find it strange to come home with you and meet 2 mums?

dulpit

Not sure if this has been asked, and sorry if it's a stupid question - but how does conception usually occur for gay couples? Artificial insemination I would assume, right?

amdublin

I hope this is a good sign for the SSM referendum next year, I am wracking my brains and I literally have nothing to ask!!!!!!

Sonics2k

dulpit wrote: »

Not sure if this has been asked, and sorry if it's a stupid question - but how does conception usually occur for gay couples? Artificial insemination I would assume, right?

Sorry for the delay again all, another busy day at work!

I'm really not 100% sure on this, but I believe it's mostly down to adoption, surrogacy/artificial insemination.

Basically the same routes that a straight person would go down.

The difference is that while a single gay person can adopt, a gay couple cannot, while a straight person can do both. There is no good reason for this.

AlanS181824

I don't really have anything major to say/ask other than a massive thank you for doing this, it's amazing to actually hear from someone who was raised like this.

One question that did come to mind for me would be surnames.

Like did you take both your mothers surnames and just "double barrel" them with a - or did you just take your biological mothers or maybe something different altogether?

Cheers.

AlanS181824

Sonics2k wrote: »

Well truthfully speaking, my "parents" have separated a good while ago, but are now both in long term relationships.

Maybe this is a totally inappropriate/stupid question but it's 6am so cut me a bit of slack!:rolleyes:

Are they both currently in lesbian relationships now?

I'm guessing the answer will be something along the lines of they were lesbian before they split, why would that suddenly change? So yeah! But said I'd ask it anyway.

Thanks!

seventeen sheep

Do you have any siblings / half-siblings / step-siblings? Or did either of your mothers ever want to have more children with their new partners?

What's your relationship like with your mothers' new partners ... I guess they're technically your (sort of) stepmothers, or do you think of them like that? Have you ever had to introduce all four of them to someone at the same time - I'm thinking along the lines of "This is my mother, and my other mother, and my stepmother, and my other stepmother" ... could get confusing! :pac:

Sonics2k

Hi all, just a quick one now to say I will post with answer as soon as I can. Posting from a phone is a bit awkward, so I'll post back on my lunch!

Loving the new questions!

Sonics2k

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Maybe this is a totally inappropriate/stupid question but it's 6am so cut me a bit of slack!:rolleyes:

Are they both currently in lesbian relationships now?

I'm guessing the answer will be something along the lines of they were lesbian before they split, why would that suddenly change? So yeah! But said I'd ask it anyway.

Thanks!

Yes, they are indeed both in relationships with other women now and always have been. Both of them are in long-term relationships of course.

seventeen sheep wrote: »

Do you have any siblings / half-siblings / step-siblings? Or did either of your mothers ever want to have more children with their new partners?

What's your relationship like with your mothers' new partners ... I guess they're technically your (sort of) stepmothers, or do you think of them like that? Have you ever had to introduce all four of them to someone at the same time - I'm thinking along the lines of "This is my mother, and my other mother, and my stepmother, and my other stepmother" ... could get confusing! :pac:

I have no step-brothers or sisters! I guess I am pretty much the best a parent could hope for haha!
But seriously, my biological mother only wanted one child, and my other mother never really wanted/planned on a biological child of her own.

My partners have all met my biological mothers family, my fiancée gets on very well with them too. She hasn't met my other mothers family because they live in the UK.

And yes, I have jokingly made the same joke for introductions. I've always found it funny!

Dilbert75

Great Q & A and thanks for doing it. I'd imagine quite a few people would be dismayed by the reality that the birth son of a gay woman and a gay man could turn out straight. Kinda blows the "choice" theory out of the water.

KatW4

I don't have any questions at the minute. i just wanted to tell you that it's a really informative read. Thank you!

freyners

Hi Sonics2k

Thanks for agreeing to run this thread, been a brilliant read so far.

You mentioned earlier that you managed to change from feeling anger towards people who dismiss gay parents as inferior to feeling pity for them. I just wondering how you found yourself to respond in such a way to a topic that is very close to the bone. Did it require you to make a conscious effort to not get angry anymore or was it something natural?

Escapees

Really interesting thread.

One point is that you mentioned something about knowing as many children of gay couples who are now gay as from straight marriages. But surely since gay couples having kids is much more uncommon, that implies that a much larger percentage of children of gay couples also grow up to be gay? Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said. Sorry if my wording or phrasing here comes across as non-PC or ignorant - it's a subject that I and probably the public generally are not used to discussing often...

Now for the biggie question. I've come across gay couples over the years, some of which had had children (though not in this country). In all cases of those with children, and in most cases of those without, it was evident to me that the relationships between the couples involved were not 'healthy', in that there were usually clear indications that one or both of them was not happy etc. Those with children would, as others already mentioned, have cared for them and even been more dedicated to them than some straight couples, but... it was my impression that the relationships would most likely not last and this might not be in the long-term interest of the children. Any comments on this?

I accept that straight couples have relationship issues too and that there are many problematic ones out there. But, at the same time, I know of many straight relationships that appear 100% 'healthy'. Admittedly though, I obviously would come across significantly more straight couple than gay couple relationships.

Sorry this post is so wordy but from my experience the last question is really on what appears to be the elephant in the room, yet I feel I have to step on eggshells to raise the point.

Sonics2k

freyners wrote: »

Hi Sonics2k

Thanks for agreeing to run this thread, been a brilliant read so far.

You mentioned earlier that you managed to change from feeling anger towards people who dismiss gay parents as inferior to feeling pity for them. I just wondering how you found yourself to respond in such a way to a topic that is very close to the bone. Did it require you to make a conscious effort to not get angry anymore or was it something natural?

This actually took a lot of time. In my teens and early twenties I felt a lot of anger toward these people, and from time to time I still do. But in the last two or three years it's more turned to a kind of pity and almost empathy.

I pity them because, well, it's a bit sad really. To live your life filled with a bile-fueled hatred for a group of people based on their sexuality as consenting adults is insanity. I pity them because they don't understand the pain they can cause people, probably even family.

I know of one young woman, who I will not name for privacy reasons, who is gay. She has known this since she was about 12. The problem is that quite a few members of direct family are Iona supporters, and have openly said some disgusting things about gay and lesbian people, and never even realised the amount they hurt their own family.

The bit that amuses me though, is that for all their hate speech and fear mongering, they haven't even noticed their perfectly normal family member is herself a lesbian.

That's why I pity them. I pity their ignorance and gullibility, the fact that they themselves have fallen for these lies and continue to believe them, despite the overwhelming proof that gay and lesbian people are exactly the same as a straight person, except who they are attracted to.

I pity them because they are so blinded by their own religious beliefs that they hurt their own loved ones, and the insane and bizarre conclusions they will jump to to try and and prevent marriage equality.
This referendum isn't about same-sex marriage or gay adoption, it's about marriage equality. Equality is a simple thing, and we should vote yes.

quick Edit.
Escapees. My post to you will take a bit longer to write than I have, so I'll get back to you as soon as I get home.

AlanS181824

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I don't really have anything major to say/ask other than a massive thank you for doing this, it's amazing to actually hear from someone who was raised like this.

One question that did come to mind for me would be surnames.

Like did you take both your mothers surnames and just "double barrel" them with a - or did you just take your biological mothers or maybe something different altogether?

Cheers.

Maybe this has been answered already but if not....*bump*:pac:

Sonics2k

Escapees wrote: »

Really interesting thread.

One point is that you mentioned something about knowing as many children of gay couples who are now gay as from straight marriages. But surely since gay couples having kids is much more uncommon, that implies that a much larger percentage of children of gay couples also grow up to be gay? Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said. Sorry if my wording or phrasing here comes across as non-PC or ignorant - it's a subject that I and probably the public generally are not used to discussing often...

I think that one may have been misinterpreted.
Frankly I don't know the figures on how many gay children are raised by gay parents, but I'd imagine it's roughly the same percentage as the children of straight couples.

Sexuality is not a result of environment, it's just who you are.
As a slightly crass comparison, it's like being a boob guy or an bum guy. You're going to have a preference between the two as a straight male, but it's not as if you sit down with a list one day and decide which it is, you just do.

In all honesty, I only know of 1 gay child of a gay couple, but known about 20 straight children of gay couples.

Escapees wrote: »

Now for the biggie question. I've come across gay couples over the years, some of which had had children (though not in this country). In all cases of those with children, and in most cases of those without, it was evident to me that the relationships between the couples involved were not 'healthy', in that there were usually clear indications that one or both of them was not happy etc. Those with children would, as others already mentioned, have cared for them and even been more dedicated to them than some straight couples, but... it was my impression that the relationships would most likely not last and this might not be in the long-term interest of the children. Any comments on this?

I accept that straight couples have relationship issues too and that there are many problematic ones out there. But, at the same time, I know of many straight relationships that appear 100% 'healthy'. Admittedly though, I obviously would come across significantly more straight couple than gay couple relationships.

Sorry this post is so wordy but from my experience the last question is really on what appears to be the elephant in the room, yet I feel I have to step on eggshells to raise the point.

Escapees, please do not worry about any question you ask me. I will not take them personally, and I will do my best to answer them. All I ask in return is that you remember I am not an expert on gay or lesbian couples in the world, and can only give evidence that I have personally been able to vouch for. This goes for all questions asked of me here.

In answer to your question, well I guess in a way I can see your point, with the proviso that I too have. Straight couples can always separate, and yes, sometimes a gay or lesbian couple can separate a few years or more after a child has come into the family, it did happen in my own family after all.

Y'see, this is a tricky one to answer, simply because I don't know for sure, and I don't want to speak on things I can't answer fully. But from my own personal experience from the gay and straight parents I've known in my life, I'd say it's roughly equal as to the ones who have separated and the ones who haven't. Though honestly I'd reckon it's more of the straight couples, but again, this is most likely because I'd know a lot more straight parents of my friends overall.

Sonics2k

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Maybe this has been answered already but if not....*bump*:pac:

My bad, sorry!

I took my biological mothers surname when I was born. Uh, I never really asked why the reason was, I just grew up like that. For example, my own children took my surname and not their mothers. I guess it was just decided at some point, or maybe because it was easier.