Outrageous Sexual Assuault

efb

UCDVet wrote: »

I dunno - in THEORY - I agree with you 100%.

In practice my first serious girlfriend was a girl that I approached in a cafeteria and she told me to 'Go away'. Only I didn't. She ended up giving me her phone number. We went out. We dated for FOUR YEARS.

Even worse is the 'no means no' thing when it comes to actual sex. I realize how this post is going to make me sound. So let me just say that I'm a very upstanding sort of guy. I was raised with three sisters and I'm all for women being treated with respect. I would never force someone to do something they didn't want to do. Almost every girl I've messed around with physically either was or would soon be a long-term girlfriend of mine. I never have had a one night stand, and with the exception of one, I remained on good terms with every girl I dated.

Still, there were PLENTY of times when a girl and I getting physical, and I'd try to progress things to the next logical step, and she'd protest *slightly*. 'Ummm, no, we probably shouldn't.' And I'd back off and continue whatever it was that we were doing. Then 10 minutes later, I'd try the same thing again, and she'd be totally cool. I even remember saying, 'Are you sure?' and she said, 'Yes'. The same girl that, just 10 minutes earlier told me to stop, now is saying yes.

I've seen surveys that report something like 70% of women admit to saying 'No' at some point in their life when they actually wanted the guy to continue. Reasons given are what you'd expect, they don't want to seem easy or sluty, or that they want to make the guy want it more.

In the end, it's very, very confusing.

The article is pretty light on details, so it's hard to say much about this particular example. I'd like to assume the guy committed a crime and the legal system got it right. But it's really hard to say that every person who is told to go away, but doesn't, is a criminal.

I can't believe what I'm reading. Did you make much from Blurred Lines???

Bootros Bootros

ireland.man wrote: »

Not to be trite but if that was your sister this man was trying to grope and touch would you laugh it off and discourage her from being angry? A proper 'red blooded man' wouldn't dismiss it as trivial.

I'd congratulate her on the elbow. Not on the court case.

In free speech cases they sometimes use the word "chill". Here a precedent has been set. Sexual abuse is (admittedly lots) of unwanted contact. Jimmy Goose wants people to know that they should expect jail time or go on the register for unwanted contact. Simple, says he. No contact. None. Not a hand on knee. Not a peck on cheek.

Which is fair enough becsuse this looks like a common law precedent. Nobody knows the next case. A chilling effect on passes.

Glad I'm out of that game.

efb

This fella probably thinks Dapper Laughs is funny...

ligertigon

What he did was foolish and wrong. At least he admits it.

But what the Judge said was also very wrong...
"The judge warned the 34-year-old defendant that although he was not being placed on the police sex offenders register, "by virtue of the conviction your name may appear on the barred list of working with children and vulnerable adults".

To me that is just over the top, unrelated to the original incident and threatening.
Either put him on the list or don't.
Any views on this aspect?

Bootros Bootros

Funtrepreneur wrote: »

It's pretty sad that most guys can't approach a girl without being **** faced drunk. Never works. Y not grow a pair and approach a girl in a shop or café. You actually might get laid then as opposed to being a sleazy drunk.
Op if you see it as acceptable behaviour you need to open your eyes or you may one day end up on the paper for something similar. And it will be totally justified.

approsching women in any context would be more annoying. The American way.

auldgranny

Roquentin wrote: »

i think he should have plead guilty and just apologized.

Definitely. And he might not lose every shred of respect.

jimgoose

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

I'd congratulate her on the elbow. Not on the court case.

In free speech cases they sometimes use the word "chill". Here a precedent has been set. Sexual abuse is (admittedly lots) of unwanted contact. Jimmy Goose wants people to know that they should expect jail time or go on the register for unwanted contact. Simple, says he. No contact. None. Not a hand on knee. Not a peck on cheek.

Which is fair enough becsuse this looks like a common law precedent. Nobody knows the next case. A chilling effect on passes.

Glad I'm out of that game.

Are you stupid, or an immature Small-Man merchant, or what the haemorrhaging fcuk?

6541

6541 wrote: »

Its madness, he is on a work night out gets drunk and has a feel, he is then landed in court. Most red blooded males do this, admit it !

He was told more than once to stop. He didn't. That was more than a "feel". If he can't hold his drink without turning into an animal, then he shouldn't drink. Most red blooded males respect women, not treat them like pieces of meat.

Bootros Bootros

Valetta wrote: »

"were she not into it"

And there lies the important difference, which a lot of posters do not appear to understand.

It's no wonder there are so many up in court for sexual offences.

How would I have known for certain? Remember I am responding in this thread -- and in particular the post you quoted -- to JimGoose's claim that you can and should go in the register for any touching.

eviltwin

I've been a victim of this kind of persistent attention to the point a man put his hand up my skirt and tried to get his hand into my knickers. It was in a public place which doesn't make it any less frightening. Its hard to explain it sometimes because it doesn't seem all that bad but intimidation is hard to deal with. I didn't think he was going to rape me or anything but it was a horrible experience and it took me a long time to go back to the venue. She told him to stop and he didn't, being drunk or a hot blooded male or whatever is no excuse. You don't behave that way. I hope he's learnt his lesson.

Valetta

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

How would I have known for certain? Remember I am responding in this thread -- and in particular the post you quoted -- to JimGoose's claim that you can and should go in the register for any touching.

You're taking his post literally and out of context purposely to creat a false picture.

Bootros Bootros

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you stupid, or an immature Small-Man merchant, or what the haemorrhaging fcuk?

Reported for personal abuse.

Are you able to argue? You said that people should not touch at all or should expect to end up on the register.

UCDVet

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

No.

Only the ones I quote as fact.

Okay - just because I like you.....here:

70% of (non-virgin) Russian Women said that they had at least once said no to sex although they had every intention to and were willing to engage in sexual intercourse

Essentially the same survey as the one I linked to from 1988. But this time, in Russia. The number is higher because they excluded virgins. So, among sexually active college women in Russia - 70% admit to token resistance.

Anyway, you are welcome to read all about it in The Journal of Sex Research, Vol. 31, No.2, 1994 pp 125-132

The title of the article is 'Token Resistance to Sexual Intercourse and Consent to Unwanted Sexual Intercourse'

Roquentin

auldgranny wrote: »

Definitely. And he might not lose every shred of respect.

at my grad i got too drunk and had to apologize to a few people afterwards. but id say given that i was young i was forgiven more easily.

we all make mistakes. i think he would have been more easily forgiven if he tried to make amends and plead guilty.

the rugby player recently who punched someone on a night out admitted his guilt, paid sum of money to the defendant and said he was sorry and he came out respectable because he did that

jimgoose

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

How would I have known for certain? Remember I am responding in this thread -- and in particular the post you quoted -- to JimGoose's claim that you can and should go in the register for any touching.

I said no such thing, and well you know it. That man did not go on the sex offender's register.

jimgoose

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

Reported for personal abuse.

Are you able to argue? You said that people should not touch at all or should expect to end up on the register.

I did not. You are a liar. Report that.

UCDVet

efb wrote: »

I can't believe what I'm reading. Did you make much from Blurred Lines???

I don't know what Blurred Lines is? A movie? I'm not sure.

Anyway, believe it or not, everything I've written is entirely true.

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

Okay - just because I like you.....here:



Essentially the same survey as the one I linked to from 1988. But this time, in Russia. The number is higher because they excluded virgins. So, among sexually active college women in Russia - 70% admit to token resistance.

Anyway, you are welcome to read all about it in The Journal of Sex Research, Vol. 31, No.2, 1994 pp 125-132

The title of the article is 'Token Resistance to Sexual Intercourse and Consent to Unwanted Sexual Intercourse'

I've done that too but with my husband, someone I trust 100% and someone who I know would stop if I was really not into it. A guy I work with, someone I have no interest in trying to get on me at work do...not exactly the same is it.

fiachr_a

Roquentin wrote: »

at my grad i got too drunk and had to apologize to a few people afterwards.

At my grad I got drunk and she went home early!

UCDVet

eviltwin wrote: »

I've done that too but with my husband, someone I trust 100% and someone who I know would stop if I was really not into it. A guy I work with, someone I have no interest in trying to get on me at work do...not exactly the same is it.

I don't think the majority of Russian undergraduates are married though.

Roquentin

Roquentin wrote: »

at my grad i got too drunk and had to apologize to a few people afterwards. but id say given that i was young i was forgiven more easily.

we all make mistakes. i think he would have been more easily forgiven if he tried to make amends and plead guilty.

the rugby player recently who punched someone on a night out admitted his guilt, paid sum of money to the defendant and said he was sorry and he came out respectable because he did that

That is the mature thing to do. Well done you. This man didn't accept that he'd done wrong. He's sorry now! Hopefully he'll stay off the drink!

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

I don't think the majority of Russian undergraduates are married though.

Do you know under what circumstances they would engage in that kind of thing? I'd hazard a guess its with someone they know well, possibly someone they are in a relationship with. I can't imagine any woman in her right mind saying no to this kind of thing but really meaning yes. He wasn't her partner and it wasn't exactly a romantic setting. I think its fair to say her no in this case meant no.

namloc1980

I dunno who's worse. The moron in the article who couldn't keep his hands to himself or the eejits on this thread trying to pass it off as "normal red blooded male behaviour"....whatever the hell that is.

Timberrrrrrrr

pharmaton wrote: »

absolutely, sure how else would they get the ride?

The same way as most men do, by not being a ****ing drunken knob head and treating them with respect. Am no prude but drunken gob****es groping women thinking it's ok really pisses me off.

Bootros Bootros

jimgoose wrote: »

I did not. You are a liar. Report that.

Ok maybe not the register. The post above you wanted this guy on the register.

You said.


Simple. Do not touch unless invited. Even a solicitor should be capable if apprehending that.

So no touching. No passes. 19th courtship.

EDIT: I suppose one could ask:

" Can one put one's hand on thoust knee". But that might be verbal assault. The situation is unclear.

LorMal

Any chance of some balance here? The man definitely acted in a boorish, offensive, rude and frankly idiotic manner. However, no-one was gravely injured or seriously physically assaulted. That does not condone or excuse his behavior in any way.

The reaction is too severe. He will lose his job and potentially any future career prospects. His marriage must have been put under severe strain - it must be awful for his wife and children. He has had to face public sham, scorn and opprobrium.

A severe written warning for his employer, a written apology to the victim, a donation to charity would seem to me to be more appropriate.

Roquentin

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."

---- Warren Buffett

Lyaiera

UCDVet wrote: »

I generally don't keep a link to every survey I've ever read about. Do you? Personally, as I'm married, this isn't a topic that's particularly relevant to me.

Still - rather than give you unverified 'random facts' type websites - here is an academic paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3379584



This was a survey of 610 college students (ie - fairly young women). That might partially account for why the number isn't as high as the 70% I vaguely remember reading.

Still - 40% is hell of a lot higher than 0%.

So what you're saying is that it's worth persisting and continuing to grope someone because some people might be ok with it? And as people have already said they might be ok with it only with a long term partner.

eviltwin wrote: »

I've been a victim of this kind of persistent attention to the point a man put his hand up my skirt and tried to get his hand into my knickers. It was in a public place which doesn't make it any less frightening. Its hard to explain it sometimes because it doesn't seem all that bad but intimidation is hard to deal with. I didn't think he was going to rape me or anything but it was a horrible experience and it took me a long time to go back to the venue. She told him to stop and he didn't, being drunk or a hot blooded male or whatever is no excuse. You don't behave that way. I hope he's learnt his lesson.

I had a drunk guy in the pub grab my boob and squeeze it a few times a couple of weeks ago. He was talking to my friend, put his arm over my shoulder, rest his hand on my breast and squeeze. I froze. I didn't know what to do in the situation. I was shocked to think it could even happen.

Donkey Oaty

UCDVet wrote: »

How do you pre-emptively know which you'll want to mention at a later date, without recording them all?

My secrets are my own, baby-chops.

Annasopra

6541 wrote: »

This is all very one sided. The guy got locked, the guy did what most normal guys do after beer

No. I genuinely believe most "normal" guys would have the cop on to realise "no means no" and most guys wouldnt sexually assault women like this.