Outrageous Sexual Assuault

PopePalpatine

namloc1980 wrote: »

I dunno who's worse. The moron in the article who couldn't keep his hands to himself or the eejits on this thread trying to pass it off as "normal red blooded male behaviour"....whatever the hell that is.

I'm just waiting for those who were defending Ched Evans in the AH thread about his crime to show up. They've probably gone down to the shops to stock up on Doritos/Cheetos/whatever neckbeards eat.

UCDVet

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you know under what circumstances they would engage in that kind of thing? I'd hazard a guess its with someone they know well, possibly someone they are in a relationship with. I can't imagine any woman in her right mind saying no to this kind of thing but really meaning yes. He wasn't her partner and it wasn't exactly a romantic setting. I think its fair to say her no in this case meant no.

Umm - we're not talking about like a kinky rape-fantasy that a loving couple are acting out. We're talking about 18-22 year-olds awkward drunken hook-ups and girls not wanting to be labelled as sluts.

Their reasons fell into three categories: practical (fear of appearing promiscuous), inhibition-related (moral concern), and manipulative reasons (desire to be in control)

As part of the survey, they were asked to give their reasons.

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

Umm - we're not talking about like a kinky rape-fantasy that a loving couple are acting out. We're talking about 18-22 year-olds awkward drunken hook-ups and girls not wanting to be labelled as sluts.

Do you really think its okay to grope a woman who asks you to stop?

Wolf Club

6541 wrote: »

This is all very one sided. The guy got locked, the guy did what most normal guys do after beer (except of course some of the angles here) and he was brought to court. She must be some wagon. He should have done her for assault, she elbowed him in the stomach.

As a "red blooded" man, how would you feel if someone did this to your girlfriend/wife?

Lyaiera

LorMal wrote: »

The reaction is too severe. He will lose his job and potentially any future career prospects. His marriage must have been put under severe strain - it must be awful for his wife and children. He has had to face public sham, scorn and opprobrium.

The poor man. All he did was nuzzle some boobies after she physically tried to get him to stop.

A severe written warning for his employer, a written apology to the victim, a donation to charity would seem to me to be more appropriate.

That'd imply that he thought he did something wrong.

ligertigon

LorMal wrote: »

Any chance of some balance here? The man definitely acted in a boorish, offensive, rude and frankly idiotic manner. However, no-one was gravely injured or seriously physically assaulted. That does not condone or excuse his behavior in any way.

The reaction is too severe. He will lose his job and potentially any future career prospects. His marriage must have been put under severe strain - it must be awful for his wife and children. He has had to face public sham, scorn and opprobrium.

A severe written warning for his employer, a written apology to the victim, a donation to charity would seem to me to be more appropriate.

Indeed.
Who is this judge anyway?

jimgoose

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. I genuinely believe most "normal" guys would have the cop on to realise "no means no" and most guys wouldnt sexually assault women like this.

Indeed not.

UCDVet

Lyaiera wrote: »

So what you're saying is that it's worth persisting and continuing to grope someone because some people might be ok with it? And as people have already said they might be ok with it only with a long term partner.

Absolutely not. I'm not advocating any action. I'm simply sharing my experiences. If I took everything I've been told by women at face value I would not be married right now (or at least, not married to my wife, whom I love very much. So that'd suck for me).

I'm also saying, correctly (with citations now, because apparently After Hours is serious business) that it's not even close to uncommon for women to say No when they mean yes.

If 70% of sexually active college girls in Russia say No to sex when they mean Yes - imagine how many say No to something less significant when they mean Yes? Like asking for a phone number or a dance. I'm not about to spend time Googling for research on this, but anyone else is welcome to. Still, I suspect it is, at least, as high as 70%.

All I said was that it's not simple (certainly not as simple as no means no) and I also said I don't envy anyone who has to date in this climate that we currently live in.

I'm not giving any advice on dating. I'd hope people would NOT take anything someone on After Hours says to heart.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

It's also quite intimidating if someone much bigger than you grabs you and you can't get away either. I can't imagine any sort of decent person would keep doing something like that when they were told to stop it

LorMal

Lyaiera wrote: »

The poor man. All he did was nuzzle some boobies after she physically tried to get him to stop.



That'd imply that he thought he did something wrong.

Brilliant piece of razor sharp sarcasm there.....

UCDVet

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you really think its okay to grope a woman who asks you to stop?

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

DivingDuck

UCDVet wrote: »

So, among sexually active college women in Russia - 70% admit to token resistance.

No matter how true this is, it doesn't negate the fact that many women mean no when they say no. The other 30% who have never said no but meant yes are not the other side of this equation. That group is not covered in this statistic.

How many women have, at some point in their lives, said no and meant no? I don't have a study to back this up, but I would imagine that figure is close to 100%. Anecdotal experience only, but I can't think of a single female I know who has not at some point received unwanted advances and turned them down, with varying degrees of force and politeness.

How many times should a woman have to say no before she is taken seriously? How far should the sexual advances go while she continues to say no before her refusal is accepted as genuine?

Which would you rather: miss out on sex with a girl who was willing but put up token resistance, or be charged with sexual assault or rape when an unwilling girl reports your unwanted advances to the police?

Instead of using stats like this one to excuse touching a woman once she's asked you to stop, it should make us reconsider our approach as a society to women who are open and honest about their sex drive.

If women weren't shamed by society and valued less by potential mates for being sexually available, then there wouldn't be a culture of saying no when you mean yes for the sake of appearances. That would be of immense benefit to men and women alike.

Timberrrrrrrr

UCDVet wrote: »

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

Are you serious?

No means No!!!

Lyaiera

LorMal wrote: »

Brilliant piece of razor sharp sarcasm there.....

It's funny coz it's true.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

UCDVet wrote: »

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

How would you feel if some rotten looking creptile came up to you (you may not even be single) and decides it's ok to play with your balls, you tell her to stop and she decides (without even knowing you or your personality) you don't really mean no, I mean how could you not find that attractive, and she continued to touch you?

UCDVet

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you serious?

No means No!!!

Except that it really, really doesn't.

People frequently say 'No' when they mean 'Yes'. If you missed it, go back a page or two, and I've got links to prove it.

Equally confusing is that people will SAY YES to sex, when they really don't want to.

Similar surveys have found that 50% of men and 40% of women admitted to saying yes to having sex, when they really didn't want to. The most common reasons given were 'enticement, altruism, inexperience and intoxication'.

Yer Aul One

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How would you feel if some rotten looking creptile came up to you (you may not even be single) and decides it's ok to play with your balls, you tell her to stop and she decides (without even knowing you or your personality) you don't really mean no, I mean how could you not find that attractive, and she continued to touch you?

How much of a creptile we talking here???:cool:

auldgranny

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How would you feel if some rotten looking creptile came up to you (you may not even be single) and decides it's ok to play with your balls, you tell her to stop and she decides (without even knowing you or your personality) you don't really mean no, I mean how could you not find that attractive, and she continued to touch you?

I volunteer ....

auldgranny

UCDVet wrote: »

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

Try using that as a defence in a rape trial if you really believe it.

LorMal

Lyaiera wrote: »

It's funny coz it's true.

??? I did not condone his actions in any way. I suggested the punishment was too severe given the permanent and severe impact on his future life . Do you disagree? (It would be helpful for clarity if you would avoid sarcasm).

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

Wow :eek: I have no words really to that. How is it ever okay to grope a woman who is asking you to stop. The guy who groped me probably thought I was well up for it, actually it really affected me for a long time afterwards. He physically assaulted me when I pushed him away. He probably thought he was well within his rights to do that too. Imagine it was your wife in a club or a packed train or something and some guy starts trying to feel her up.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

What about bringing a girl home, and her changing her mind. Tells you she doesn't want to have sex. What do you do anyway? Have sex with her anyway even though she said no?

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

Except that it really, really doesn't.

People frequently say 'No' when they mean 'Yes'. If you missed it, go back a page or two, and I've got links to prove it.

Equally confusing is that people will SAY YES to sex, when they really don't want to.

Similar surveys have found that 50% of men and 40% of women admitted to saying yes to having sex, when they really didn't want to. The most common reasons given were 'enticement, altruism, inexperience and intoxication'.

With strangers? With random people from work? I would bet my wages this week that those stats refer to relationships where there is trust, where people know each other really well. Of course you know when your partner is being serious when they say NO. A person you know on a professional level or who you've just met in a club is a totally different thing.

UCDVet

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How would you feel if some rotten looking creptile came up to you (you may not even be single) and decides it's ok to play with your balls, you tell her to stop and she decides (without even knowing you or your personality) you don't really mean no, I mean how could you not find that attractive, and she continued to touch you?

Please don't turn me into a strawman.

Saying that some people, sometimes, say no when they mean yes....does NOT MEAN ALL PEOPLE WHO SAY NO MEAN YES.

I'm not claiming that, because it's ridiculous. What I am claiming is that it's quite difficult to know what someone actually means.

namloc1980

UCDVet wrote: »

Sometimes, yes.

As evidenced by my personal experiences and the scientific research I've presented. I don't see how anyone could say anything different. It's always situational, and situational contexts aren't easily described via text.

So, depending on the situation, sometimes, the answer is yes. It really is okay to grope a woman (or man) who asks you to stop.

Sometimes it isn't.

Awesome, going to use this in future.

Me: Do you want a PS4 for your birthday?
Mrs: No.
Me: Excellent, I know you'll just love it!

eviltwin

UCDVet wrote: »

Please don't turn me into a strawman.

Saying that some people, sometimes, say no when they mean yes....does NOT MEAN ALL PEOPLE WHO SAY NO MEAN YES.

I'm not claiming that, because it's ridiculous. What I am claiming is that it's quite difficult to know what someone actually means.

How do you judge the ones who are up for it vs the ones who really do mean no then?

Timberrrrrrrr

UCDVet wrote: »

Except that it really, really doesn't.

People frequently say 'No' when they mean 'Yes'. If you missed it, go back a page or two, and I've got links to prove it.

Equally confusing is that people will SAY YES to sex, when they really don't want to.

Similar surveys have found that 50% of men and 40% of women admitted to saying yes to having sex, when they really didn't want to. The most common reasons given were 'enticement, altruism, inexperience and intoxication'.

If your daughter came home tonight crying and told you xxxxxxx had groped her at a works party and wouldn't stop would you say "ah......but did you really mean no?"

How about if your wife/GF was on a train or bus and some lecherous drunken tool groped her? Would you be ok with that?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

UCDVet wrote: »

Please don't turn me into a strawman.

Saying that some people, sometimes, say no when they mean yes....does NOT MEAN ALL PEOPLE WHO SAY NO MEAN YES.

I'm not claiming that, because it's ridiculous. What I am claiming is that it's quite difficult to know what someone actually means.

So why would you continue to maul a woman if she's told you to stop?

jimgoose

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

Ok maybe not the register. The post above you wanted this guy on the register.

You said.


Simple. Do not touch unless invited. Even a solicitor should be capable if apprehending that.

So no touching. No passes. 19th courtship.

EDIT: I suppose one could ask:

" Can one put one's hand on thoust knee". But that might be verbal assault. The situation is unclear.

As a real Alpha Male, it is never unclear to me how to proceed. I know by looking at anyone's eyes what the next move is. It is never to physically intimidate, or throw weight around. The other thing I don't do is go running to moderators like a little girl with the "Report" button.

DivingDuck

UCDVet wrote: »

Saying that some people, sometimes, say no when they mean yes....does NOT MEAN ALL PEOPLE WHO SAY NO MEAN YES.

I'm not claiming that, because it's ridiculous. What I am claiming is that it's quite difficult to know what someone actually means.

Then maybe people should keep their hands to themselves until they can be certain.