irish justice

whomitconcerns

I'm lost...why should these guys be allowed avoid criminal records??? Its a vicious assault and its caught on video!

Gda John Donnelly told the court, “both males were involved in the assault that led on to Aston Quay, both males did kick and punch the injured party in the head”.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/youths-guilty-of-vicious-attack-on-student-on-st-patricks-day-given-a-chance-to-avoid-criminal-records-30923979.html

whiskeyman

Despite the woeful syntax of the Indo journalists, it appears the poor boys said sorry... or were told to say sorry...
Ah sure... what more do you want?

Indo kidz wrote:

One of the boys has also written a letter of apology and the second boy has agreed told the do the same.

tom_tarbucket

whomitconcerns wrote: »

I'm lost...why should these guys be allowed avoid criminal records??? Its a vicious assault and its caught on video!



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/youths-guilty-of-vicious-attack-on-student-on-st-patricks-day-given-a-chance-to-avoid-criminal-records-30923979.html

the sooner we start properly penalising these young scum the better. this bullsh1t of them NOT being protected cause they are 16/17 is rubbish.

if they are old enough to intentionally kick a lad in the head, they are old enough to be fully prosecuted as an adult.

oh but its the systems fault they turned out like this, they come from a bad area etc........yawn.

whomitconcerns

whiskeyman wrote: »

Despite the woeful syntax of the Indo journalists, it appears the poor boys said sorry... or were told to say sorry...
Ah sure... what more do you want?

That true :P I guess the head kicking in front of the passers by was just a once off cos they were off their biccies.."never did nuthin to no-one...lovely lads...,etc"

greenman09

Irish justice at its finest. These scumbags seem to get off with sh1t like this all the time. Should out them away with the big guys see how they felt then. Joke

suicide_circus

Free to kick the head off the next innocent bystander.

The state's primary duty is to protect its citizens.

The state has failed. Again.

anncoates

"The teens, who were accompanied to court by their mothers, had been found suitable for inclusion in a crime diversion programme run by the Probation Service."

:pac:

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/7237544b533ca9475f9b5f00/watch-this-revealing-documentary-on-the-making-of-stanley-kubricks-a-clockwork-orange.jpg

jamesbondings

suicide_circus wrote: »

Free to kick the head off the next innocent bystander.

The state's primary duty is to protect its citizens.

The state has failed. Again.

Ah but sure look he was only a brazilian student, he has probably gone home now.....no harm done lads

FluffyAngel

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

jamesbondings

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

BOLLOX, if i accidentally took something from the shop or forgot to pay my parking fine on time and get a warning THATS a chance......if I go out and kick 7 shades of ****e out of some innocent I should be given a chance???

How does one subscribe to your nonsense?

whomitconcerns

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

Are you for real? Their chance was to decide not to kick a random person in the head in the middle of the street! They chose wrong. Search and watch the original version of the video and decide for yourself! A running kick to the head should be some class of attempted manslaughter if that existed!

Grayson

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Are you for real? Their chance was to decide not to kick a random person in the head in the middle of the street! They chose wrong. Search and watch the original version of the video and decide for yourself! A running kick to the head should be some class of attempted manslaughter if that existed!

Restorative justice programs have shown great success in many parts of the world. People involved in them have far lower rates of repeat offending. It's also been shown to be of more benefit to victims.

The idea is to get some good out of a bad situation rather than just lock someone up.

RobYourBuilder

Gda Donnelly agreed that they were co-operative and that one of them presented himself to a garda station a day after the attack. He also confirmed that they have not continued to come to Garda atention.

The only reason that they handed themselves in was because there was a YouTube video that went viral showing them assaulting the poor chap in question. It was a completely unprovoked and vicious attack on a tourist that was enjoying the parade.

I'm sure the judge has watched the footage himself. How he can even think about not imposing a custodial sentence is beyond me. They kicked the man full force into the head when he was already grounded.

conorhal

This judgement is actually worse than people imagine. The individuals involved in that attack were identified by the guards as part of a gang of ferral teens marked them out for special attention by the guards who linked the group to a litany of crimes including gang rape, robbery, assault with a deadly weapon amongst activities. But yeah, sure judge O' Connor, a slap on the wrist seems appropriate.
This in the same week that the courts descide a rapist can't even be deported back to another EU country and it's clear to me that the judges of this country are enemies of the people.

CPSW

Typical Irish justice system, absolute joke shop, won't be long before these toe-rags are up in front of a judge again!!

jamesbondings

conorhal wrote: »

This judgement is actually worse than people imagine. The individuals involved in that attack were identified by the guards as the same gang of ferral teens that have a record and rap sheet that marked them out as a special target for the guards that linked the group to gang rape, robbery, assault with a deadly weapon amongst activities. But yeah, sure judge O' Connor, a slap on the wrist seems appropriate.
This in the same week that the courts descide a rapist can't even be deported back to another EU country and it's clear to me that the judges of this country are enemies of the people.

Have you any evidence of this? i would like to read it!

conorhal

jamesbondings wrote: »

Have you any evidence of this? i would like to read it!

Here you go:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-city-feral-gang-teen-is-facing-double-rape-charge-30528061.html

These are the kind of ferrel ultra violent thugs that our judges seem determined to keep on our streets.


As part of their massive clampdown on the mob, gardai arrested another teenager in Dublin's north inner city yesterday morning following a surveillance operation.
He is the 12th suspected gang member to be questioned as part of the investigation which is being led by detectives based in Pearse Street.
Yesterday's arrest happened only hours after 11 other teenagers were released from garda custody. Sources said many of them are likely to face "extremely serious charges" after their files are processed by the DPP.
However, one of the suspects is already very familiar with the courts system and has been charged with two counts of rape.

jamesbondings

ehm, unless im missing something obvious, this has no correlation to what you just quoted, apart from a brazilian man was attacked on a different day in roughly the same area???

I could be missing something but dont think i am!

jamesbere

It must be fairly demoralising for the gardai, I mean they investigate these scumbags and arrest them for numerous crimes and all they get is a slap on the wrist and sent back out on the streets.

conorhal

jamesbondings wrote: »

ehm, unless im missing something obvious, this has no correlation to what you just quoted, apart from a brazilian man was attacked on a different day in roughly the same area???

I could be missing something but dont think i am!

It involved members of the same gang of which was stated in the article.


"Apart from this racist attack, the gang is also suspected of being involved in a number of homophobic attacks as well as distraction thefts of smartphones, wallets and other goods.
The night before the attack on the Brazilian man, gang members were caught on CCTV attacking a woman and her boyfriend in the same area in a sickening random assault outside a shop that left the female victim with a broken nose and other severe facial injuries."

Karl Stein

Are they thugs? Yes.

Is giving them a criminal record wise? Probably not.

If you give someone a criminal record it will seriously affect their chances of getting on courses and getting gainful employment. If there is a chance of diverting these guys away from a criminal record and subsequent life of crime it should be taken. The option to prosecute these guys at a future point will still present itself if they don't stay 'diverted'.

See, the pitchfork brigade are the same whiners who bleat on about tax-payers money being wasted on this-that-and-the-other when people end up with multiple convictions and lengthy prison sentences that cost the exchequer vast sums of money.

jamesbondings

conorhal wrote: »

It involved members of the same gang of which was stated in the article.


"Apart from this racist attack, the gang is also suspected of being involved in a number of homophobic attacks as well as distraction thefts of smartphones, wallets and other goods.
The night before the attack on the Brazilian man, gang members were caught on CCTV attacking a woman and her boyfriend in the same area in a sickening random assault outside a shop that left the female victim with a broken nose and other severe facial injuries."

This was in relation to an attack in July, not the Paddies day attack. I am struggling to see a link here....Not being an arse genuinely interested, but i just cant see any link here....

Valetta

jamesbondings wrote: »

This was in relation to an attack in July, not the Paddies day attack. I am struggling to see a link here....Not being an arse genuinely interested, but i just cant see any link here....

There is no link.

RobYourBuilder

Karl Stein wrote: »

Is giving them a criminal record wise? Probably not.

They committed a serious crime. Of course they should be given a criminal conviction. They kicked a man full force in the head in a completely unprovoked attack. The ramifications of which, we don't know yet. While victims of head trauma may seem okay in the present, it can seriously affect them later in life.

conorhal

Valetta wrote: »

There is no link.

Read the article the OP references, the two teens in question are linked in the headline which states " admitted taking part in a vicious attack on a Brazilian student in Dublin city-centre on St Patrick's Day".
The article I posted also links the gang that perpetrated that attack to a series of very violent offences listed in the article.
"In a racist attack on an innocent Brazilian in Dame Street on July 23, two teenage girls were involved in stamping on and kicking an unconscious man in the head up to 20 times.
Apart from this racist attack, the gang is also suspected of being involved in a number of homophobic attacks as well as distraction thefts of smartphones, wallets and other goods.


So there is a link.

BeerWolf

Getting tired of teenagers getting off easy just because they're under 18...

Children over 12 committing heinous crimes should be trialled like an adult and serve the same amount of jail time just like an adult...

Why should 18 suddenly be a magical number where criminals over it have their names published, while completely ****ed up kids are protected.

jamesbondings

there isnt, these guys cant be named so you are jumping to conclusions to say its the same gang.....your article doesnt mention the st patricks day attack at all. therefore there is no link!

the only link is the words brazilian and attack (as far as i can see)

Vomit

And this is why the scummers are not afraid to break the law. If they knew that violent attacks came with harsh sentences, well, they probably would be less inclined to f*cking do it! It's not rocket surgery!

jamesbondings

ok i will read both articles again and get back to you..........

Valetta

conorhal wrote: »

Read the article the OP references, the two teens in question are linked in the headline which states " admitted taking part in a vicious attack on a Brazilian student in Dublin city-centre on St Patrick's Day".
The article I posted also links the gang that perpetrated that attack to a series of very violent offences listed in the article.
"In a racist attack on an innocent Brazilian in Dame Street on July 23, two teenage girls were involved in stamping on and kicking an unconscious man in the head up to 20 times.
Apart from this racist attack, the gang is also suspected of being involved in a number of homophobic attacks as well as distraction thefts of smartphones, wallets and other goods.


So there is a link.

That incident on July 23rd is obviously different to the one on St Patrick's day, which is the subject of the OP.

The article you linked to, however does say

"So far, no one has been charged before the courts in relation to the crime spree, mainly because of the young ages of the suspects."

which would lead me to believe there is no connection between the two articles, as the two lads referred to in the OP have been charged before the court.

jamesbondings

i Have read both articles again and there is no link whatsoever, what they done is wrong but you cant just throw more crimes on their head without any proof..." there was an attack in town last night" must have been these two lads and their mates.......

tom_tarbucket

jamesbondings wrote: »

i Have read both articles again and there is no link whatsoever, what they done is wrong but you cant just throw more crimes on their head without any proof..." there was an attack in town last night" must have been these two lads and their mates.......

ok whatever, they are not linked, whoopi do.

the lads in the opening post are still scum of the earth.

jamesbondings

agree, but like i said you cant just throw everything at them, they are guilty for what they done and should serve time.....

Egginacup

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

Everyone DOES deserve a chance but only AFTER they've paid for their crimes. A bit of stupidity like petty vandalism or shoplifting is something that I would say 90% of Irish youths/teenagers have engaged in. There's no need to throw a kid into borstal because he scribbled "Robbie loves Aoife" on the bus shelter or pilfered a Mars Bar from Centra. Shit even if the little idiot smoked a bit of weed it's hardly a crime worthy of shaping his future for the worse.
Violent assault is a different kettle of fish altogether. It takes just one punch or one kick in the head to put someone in a wheelchair or a coffin and these little scumbags need to be taught that. Nevermind that they are sorry and remorseful. They are only sorry because they were caught. They didn't spend a minute regretting it when they were doing it and they should be punished harshly. Sure they deserve a second chance when they've paid for their crimes. I'm all for them not having a criminal record hanging over their heads for the rest of their lives. If by some miracle these two twits discover brains they never knew they had, applied themselves academically and had a chance for a successful future then I would be all for whatever criminal conviction they have earned to be expunged from the records after say 5 years and they can start afresh. But not punishing them at ALL in the first place because you think they deserve a chance? Fuck right off with that!

jamesbondings

i would actually like to see them publicly apologize, then we would see if they were genuine (which I doubt they were, as the judge told the second lad to write an apology letter)

Id also like to see if in ten years time they are ashamed and mortified by what they have done.....

bjork

They probably have a valid tv licence

bear1

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

Are you one of the lads from the Indo then?
If not then that is the most stupid thing I've read today.

oceanman

locking young people up is stupid, they are meeting up with hardened types in prison and usually come out worse than they went in. community service is a better way to go, at least that way they are putting something back into society and it costs the taxpayer far less!

washman3

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Because everybody deserves a chance

its not right or wrong

Its exactly because of this attitude that these scum exist in the first place.:mad:
Hope you are proud of your post.!!

Karl Stein

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Of course they should be given a criminal conviction.

The Gardai and all sorts of trained/experienced people who work in the justice system with years of experience disagree.

You continue mouthing off if makes you feel better though.

Pompey Magnus

Karl Stein wrote: »

Are they thugs? Yes.

Is giving them a criminal record wise? Probably not.

If you give someone a criminal record it will seriously affect their chances of getting on courses and getting gainful employment. If there is a chance of diverting these guys away from a criminal record and subsequent life of crime it should be taken. The option to prosecute these guys at a future point will still present itself if they don't stay 'diverted'.

See, the pitchfork brigade are the same whiners who bleat on about tax-payers money being wasted on this-that-and-the-other when people end up with multiple convictions and lengthy prison sentences that cost the exchequer vast sums of money.

Should the State give every citizen one free go at committing a violent crime with the knowledge that it will not result in a criminal record so as to avoid harming their chances of finding gainful employment or is there something special about these two thugs that you wish to make an exception for them?

Grayson

Egginacup wrote: »

Everyone DOES deserve a chance but only AFTER they've paid for their crimes. A bit of stupidity like petty vandalism or shoplifting is something that I would say 90% of Irish youths/teenagers have engaged in. There's no need to throw a kid into borstal because he scribbled "Robbie loves Aoife" on the bus shelter or pilfered a Mars Bar from Centra. Shit even if the little idiot smoked a bit of weed it's hardly a crime worthy of shaping his future for the worse.
Violent assault is a different kettle of fish altogether. It takes just one punch or one kick in the head to put someone in a wheelchair or a coffin and these little scumbags need to be taught that. Nevermind that they are sorry and remorseful. They are only sorry because they were caught. They didn't spend a minute regretting it when they were doing it and they should be punished harshly. Sure they deserve a second chance when they've paid for their crimes. I'm all for them not having a criminal record hanging over their heads for the rest of their lives. If by some miracle these two twits discover brains they never knew they had, applied themselves academically and had a chance for a successful future then I would be all for whatever criminal conviction they have earned to be expunged from the records after say 5 years and they can start afresh. But not punishing them at ALL in the first place because you think they deserve a chance? Fuck right off with that!

We don't imprison based on what might or could have happened.

I agree that the attack was nasty. And I've been attacked like that in the past too so I don't have any particular sympathy for the culprits. However restorative justice projects aren't just given to anyone. It's not something that can work all the time. It's used when a very special set of criteria are met. It always has to have the backing of the victim.

I believe the criminal justice system we have is generally very good but it isn't suitable for every situation. Sometimes it's like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. Sometimes there can be a better way to solve problems.

Karl Stein

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Should the State give every citizen one free go at committing a violent crime

No because that would be profoundly stupid.

is there something special about these two thugs that you wish to make an exception for them?

I'm not making any exception. The justice system we have in place has decided not to give them a criminal record. I think I trust the justice system more than a bunch of blow-hard know-nothings on the internet. The last time I checked we lived in one of the safest liberal democracies on Earth and I believe our justice system plays a major part in making it safe.

Welcome to Ireland, enjoy your stay.

Does this "restorative justice crime diversion programme" have the ability to remove the scumbag gene?

suicide_circus

Karl Stein wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland, enjoy your stay.

You should have said that the the brazilian tourist before he was viciously assaulted by these ballbags.

suicide_circus

Grayson wrote: »

We don't imprison based on what might or could have happened.

Dangerous driving?

Grayson

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dangerous driving?

that is a crime by itself. Assault is a crime by itself. Attempted murder is a different crime.

You can't arrest someone for assault and then charge them for attempted murder because it might have happened.

suicide_circus

Grayson wrote: »

that is a crime by itself. Assault is a crime by itself. Attempted murder is a different crime.

You can't arrest someone for assault and then charge them for attempted murder because it might have happened.

So if a friend gives you a dead arm at a paty or someone jumps on your skull as you lie lifeless on the pavement, they are guilty of the same crime?

Karl Stein

suicide_circus wrote: »

You should have said that the the brazilian tourist before he was viciously assaulted by these ballbags.

Okay.

Skylinehead

BeerWolf wrote: »

Getting tired of teenagers getting off easy just because they're under 18...

Children over 12 committing heinous crimes should be trialled like an adult and serve the same amount of jail time just like an adult...

Why should 18 suddenly be a magical number where criminals over it have their names published, while completely ****ed up kids are protected.

Why? The clues in the name - they're not adults. They're children.

BeerWolf

Skylinehead wrote: »

Why? The clues in the name - they're not adults. They're children.

A child past 12 should be well aware of what's right and wrong. There are plenty of adults that are beyond stupid, with the mentality of a child yet are trialled as adults.