Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

kryogen

Bill has publicly said they will cooperate with the NFL and answer any questions they are asked. Not exactly a closed shop, players have referenced it, Brady laughed, Gronk with his tweets, Mccourty in the interview.

kryogen

I am sure the league will have a finding by the end of the week, early next week at the latest as they will want it done before the SB and every leading up to that promotion wise.

Course it doesn't matter what they say now does it, they come out saying one ball was under inflated and the reasons for it are not clear or anything like that (damaged in play) wont matter a jot now, mud sticks. So we could skip straight to the part where lots of other teams fans take the pseudo moral high ground and ride the Patriots are big fat cheaters train round in circles now I guess.

bruschi

kryogen wrote: »

I am sure the league will have a finding by the end of the week, early next week at the latest as they will want it done before the SB and every leading up to that promotion wise.

Course it doesn't matter what they say now does it, they come out saying one ball was under inflated and the reasons for it are not clear or anything like that (damaged in play) wont matter a jot now, mud sticks. So we could skip straight to the part where lots of other teams fans take the pseudo moral high ground and ride the Patriots are big fat cheaters train round in circles now I guess.

posted on 14 January

bruschi wrote: »

Also, I'm really preparing myself this week, and potentially later on for the usual Belicheat/spygate/classless crap that gets thrown our way. Whilst its hard to ignore the trolls, at least on here its not bad, and I'd hope it stays that way.

I didnt think we'd have a new topic though.

kryogen

Keeps things interesting I guess Afraid some may be too young to remember spygate I suppose

bruschi

kryogen wrote: »

Keeps things interesting I guess Afraid some may be too young to remember spygate I suppose

it doesnt stop people talking about it though. nor does the actual knowledge of the spygate case and the whole investigation and the issues around it make any difference either. Just throw it out regardless.

kryogen

I think it makes it easier to deal with though, so many people spout rubbish and you know straight away they have no real insight into the case or anything so its much easier to laugh off.

Just hope they do this investigation quick and get it over with, don't need any distractions next week. Getting a flashback of the 08 bowl as we speak

Ravens looking like some dopes right now actually, which is amusing me this morning

MUFC91CS

This might be a stupid question but would the balls not be the same for each team and if the a deflated balls are easier to catch and pass would this not be more of an advantage to the more pass reliant offense of the Colts?

Or do the teams use their own balls or something?

OU812

OU812 wrote: »

I think the colts fans should be pushing for either a rematch or to take the patriots place in the Super Bowl.

If they have a rematch & still don't go through fair enough, but there should be a severe penalty to the patriots.

How many other games did this happen in that wasn't spotted?

ahh come off it mate it looks like the pats broke a rule and they should be penalised if they did (a pick somwhere between the 2nd-4th rounds imo) but in no way shape or form would the colts have won that game

MUFC91CS

MUFC91CS wrote: »

This might be a stupid question but would the balls not be the same for each team and if the a deflated balls are easier to catch and pass would this not be more of an advantage to the more pass reliant offense of the Colts?

Or do the teams use their own balls or something?

yes each team has 12 balls that they use the only reason they would use the other teams balls is if the ref deems all of theres insufficient

taidghbaby

If Colts get a replay then the 2010 World Cup should be replayed and Ireland get added as the 33rd team!

taidghbaby

taidghbaby wrote: »

If Colts get a replay then the 2010 World Cup should be replayed and Ireland get added as the 33rd team!

or more recently the lions have a far far bigger shout to have there wildcard game replayed

Hazys

My guess is that the only team that would get caught for this is the Patriots, that or any other slight infraction. As other teams are looking to catch the Patriots for anything. Especially since Aaron Rodgers was quoted on national TV in front of millions saying he does basically the same thing and nobody batted an eyelid. Do you think if Brady made the same comments they would have just flown under the radar?

I was watching sports talk show on BarstoolSports.com last night where they said they had a source say that the Ravens players had told the Colts players about the deflated balls and the Colts players planned to complain the second they had their hands on the ball. They didn't publish the story because their source wouldn't reveal the names of the Colts players. That would make perfect sense since when D'well Jackson made the biggest interception of his career, he didn't celebrate and hand the ball back to the refs, he legged it off the field and handed the ball straight to the Colts VP. A little strange that a LB who rarely touches the ball, noticed that the ball was slightly deflated and during such a big moment of the game/his career, the slight deflation was his main concern. I guess rightly or wrongly, there was a conspiracy from more than one team to catch the Patriots out.

So if it wasn't deflategate, we would have been caught for some other slight infraction, it was inevitable. There was an NFL investigation into the legality of our formations against the Ravens ffs!!

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You have to love how Pats fans imply 'everyone is at it' and 'we just got caught'

- wrong - the Pats were at it and got caught - and not for the first time -

It's the 'Patriot Way' :rolleyes:

If these reports turn out to be accurate the Pats will receive a very heavy fine - and the loss of draft pick/s. The Colts have no case for a rematch or replacing the Pats in the SB.

Personally I would reduce the Pats cap number by maybe €20million for a number of years - much better punishment for doing things the 'Patriot Way'.

You are one seriously naive person if you think other teams havent used methods in the past and or still do. Typical for you to turn this into a nonsense post about Pats fans.

Hazys

TO. wrote: »

You are one seriously naive person if you think other teams havent used methods in the past and or still do. Typical for you to turn this into a nonsense post about Pats fans.

1.

At the Super Bowl, the NFL had 100 footballs. They were new, slick and supposedly under the league's watchful eye. But not leaving anything to chance, Johnson made sure the balls were scuffed and ready well before the Dixie Chicks sang the national anthem.

"I paid some guys off to get the balls right," Johnson now admits. "I went and got all 100 footballs, and they took care of all of them."

How much did it cost Johnson? "Seventy-five hundred (dollars)," he said.

"They took care of them."

Johnson made the revelation several years ago, prior to the 10-year reunion of the Bucs' Super Bowl champion team.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-qb-johnson-paid-to-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490

2.

Fox cameras showed sideline attendants using heaters to warm up game balls, which is against league rules.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

3.

Aaron Rodgers quoted as doing a similar thing on national TV.

TO.

frostie500 wrote: »

I'm sure that Pats fans around the world will unite and create an us against them mentality but if any fan looks at it objectively it's pretty clear that if the team did this there are going to be ramifications against the franchise.

Online I've seen a lot of Pats fans talk about "this didn't make a difference to the result" but the simple fact is that if rules were broken the Pats deserve to be punished and for the media to write negatively against them for this. Personally I hope that it's found that they did nothing wrong but their closed shop mentality under Bill has meant that they don't, and won't, get the benefit of the doubt in any borderline cases

Honestly the majority of your post is sheer nonsense and tells me that when someone trolls Pats fans you will let it slide. Good to see a mod being impartial.

Most if not all Pats fans in here have said they deserve punishment. But great post Thanks.

Alfred Borden

TO.

Hazys wrote: »

1.



http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-qb-johnson-paid-to-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490

2.



http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

3.

Aaron Rodgers quoted as doing a similar thing on national TV.

Makes no difference posting proof im sure jrg will make excuses and find another way to get his point across of how much he hates the Pats and Pats fans.

Hazys

TO. wrote: »

Makes no difference posting proof im sure jrg will make excuses and find another way to get his point across of how much he hates the Pats and Pats fans.

Oh yeah in Jolly Red Giant's case nothing is going to change his mind.

The point I'm trying to show is that there is a bit of a witch hunt when the Patriots are involved. Aaron Rodgers admitted to doing almost the same thing and nobody cared. The Carolina Panthers heated balls on the sideline after being told the week of the game by the officials not to do it and no punishment came. In both cases, the incidents were considered so minor, nobody batted an eyelid. But now that the Patriots do it, its a massive scandal, seems a little unfair but who are we kidding, it was to be expected.

So will the Patriots get a fair trail with the media firestorm brewing and the self appointed King of Integrity Goodell's propensity to cave to media pressure? Something tells me i doubt it.

eagle eye

The mediots have to do something to discredit the Patriots. Last thing they want is a team that they all said was finished after three weeks of the season winning the Superbowl. They have to at least taint that win in case it happens.

If Goodell comes down hard on the Patriots here then he will be shown to be unfair. Every team in the league violates rules on a regular basis. I don't know if the Patriots did anything with the balls but its pretty clear that it goes on every week of the season with multiple teams.

Of course Spygate was similar but the Pats got done for that.

Hazys

@AdamSchefter

BREAKING: Footage of the Patriots trying to deflate all 12 balls and why they missed one: https://vine.co/v/OIeeDPhF6q5

Knex*

I don't think its a fair comparison between this and Spygate. This I do think is rather a non issue. Spygate not so much.

adrian522

I find the paranoia of some of the Patriots fans quite strange.

Any other team would be treated just the same, I don't see this as them being victimized or anything like that.

I'd imagine there will be a fine at some point, talk of replaying the game is pretty silly too, wouldn't really be a fair or just sanction.

DecStone

This is getting a lot of discussion here and even on the morning news shows. Just to show the extreme here is this: I don't agree with this headline from USA Today and I don't in a million years think that it will happen but here it is:


The Patriots should be disqualified from the Super Bowl:

Cheat on a test in school? You fail, no questions asked.

Cheat on your taxes, the IRS will find you. It won’t be pretty.

Cheat on a World Cup bid and, well, you probably get awarded that World Cup, but that’s neither here nor there.

The New England Patriots cheated in the AFC championship. As such, the team should be disqualified from the Super Bowl.



Personally I think the problem for Belichick is his past reputation and not necessarily this one event.

Maybe someone can find the article and post the link? I am not enabled to do so.

Knex*

I'm not the Patriots biggest fan, but there is no way I would advocate the above. They are deserving Super Bowl contenders.

Alfred Borden

This changes things for me now if true.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2015/01/colts-told-nfl-pats-were-deflating-balls-in-november/

eagle eye

Raf32 wrote: »

This changes things for me now if true.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2015/01/colts-told-nfl-pats-were-deflating-balls-in-november/

Do you normally read stuff from this site? Never heard of it before so I'm wondering if its a normal site for you to read on or is this just something from a wide ranging google search?

DecStone

DecStone wrote: »

This is getting a lot of discussion here and even on the morning news shows. Just to show the extreme here is this: I don't agree with this headline from USA Today and I don't in a million years think that it will happen but here it is:


The Patriots should be disqualified from the Super Bowl:

Cheat on a test in school? You fail, no questions asked.

Cheat on your taxes, the IRS will find you. It won’t be pretty.

Cheat on a World Cup bid and, well, you probably get awarded that World Cup, but that’s neither here nor there.

The New England Patriots cheated in the AFC championship. As such, the team should be disqualified from the Super Bowl.



Personally I think the problem for Belichick is his past reputation and not necessarily this one event.

Maybe someone can find the article and post the link? I am not enabled to do so.

bollocks im not a pats fan but there are levels of cheating you dont for example expel a child for cheating on a test or execute someone for not paying taxes or bomba country for cheating on a world cup bid.

what the patriots was cheating but losing a draft pick or two is fair compensation. in fact the only reason i think i should be a mid round pick and not be a late draft pick is because (as a buddy put it to me) the patriots are convicted criminals due to incidents in the past.

the calls for them to be kicked out of the superbowl are idiotic and i have noted that the only users iv seen claiming they should be are new users/users that have never posted on this thread before so i can only assume they are coming at this from an uninformed angle

Raf32

Raf32 wrote: »

This changes things for me now if true.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2015/01/colts-told-nfl-pats-were-deflating-balls-in-november/

i find it hard to believe the league would have ignored that if they where told in november

Blured

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you normally read stuff from this site? Never heard of it before so I'm wondering if its a normal site for you to read on or is this just something from a wide ranging google search?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

Same quotes about the issues in November in this piece - still only "Sources" no confirmations

Hazys

If they told the NFL back in November, why didn't the NFL do anything about it then? Why no investigation then? Or least warn the Patriots that they needed to stop or told them that they would be looked at more closely? Maybe the NFL didn't think it was such a big deal with like the Panthers incident? but things are different now because the media got hold of it?

Knex*

Can't help but feel that suspending Pats from the Super Bowl would bring the NFL to a bigger farce, than the actual incident in itself.

A fine and a draft pick should be more than enough.

eagle eye

Just thinking that Brady was intercepted three times by the Colts over two games which is more than he was by any other team in the league.

Maybe the Colts were deflating the balls?!

glued

eagle eye wrote: »

Just thinking that Brady was intercepted three times by the Colts over two games which is more than he was by any other team in the league.

Maybe the Colts were deflating the balls?!

If the Patriots blew up a school you would still be in here defending them.

matthew8

Fine and 7th round pick for me but I'm not certain as to how much advantage the balls gave them (obv made no difference to game outcome but would they have made a difference if it was close).

InTheTrees

Ouch. I'm afraid the patriots are going to be pretty badly tarnished by this.

And it wont be forgotten in a very long time.

eagle eye

glued wrote: »

If the Patriots blew up a school you would still be in here defending them.

You obviously didn't notice the exclamation mark after the question mark.:rolleyes:

Vanolder

Link to article Drew Magary article (Is this allowed?)

http://deadspin.com/the-ballghazi-takes-are-here-and-they-are-****ing-insa-1680877948

kryogen

InTheTrees wrote: »

Ouch. I'm afraid the patriots are going to be pretty badly tarnished by this.

And it wont be forgotten in a very long time.

More tarnished then "spygate"? Highly doubtful. Its ridiculous its generating this much hype right now, but I suppose that is the way with the Patriots.

j8wk2feszrnpao

If the Pats were deflating balls after they were inspected (and found to be within the correct limit), then it's such a stupid thing to do and punishment will have to be handed out.

Hopefully on Thursday all the facts can be presented by the NFL so we get a clear picture of what occurred. The whole "leaked reports" thing has done little more than fill a lot of media space.

kryogen

I pay no attention to the leaks at all, the only thing that matters is what the NFL say. I am not sure how they can prove much either way though tbh, the officials handle the balls on every single play, every one and they saw nothing wrong bar one ball which was swapped out. Balls can and often do become naturally deflated over the course of a game. I also wonder about the point, if the game was one where the Patriots were a heavy under dog and felt like they could level the playing field somehow by manipulating the balls you could see it maybe, but in a game against the Colts, at home, a team they have had no trouble with for years I can't see why they would take the risk or feel the need to interfere with the balls.

Looking forward to the report coming out actually

Hazys

http://books.google.com/books?id=wuWJhkUqRKEC&lpg=PA58&vq=doctor&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q=doctor&f=true

Most fans don’t know it, but before the game we would doctor the footballs that would be used. Until the season of 2000 it was up to the home team to provide twenty-four game balls to the officials for each game. A brand-new NFL football straight from the factory is not easy to throw or catch. It’s rock hard and very slippery. So in the privacy of the locker room before the game, players would take the footballs and rub them and scrub them to remove the glaze, or deflate them, then pump them up with air real big to stretch the leather. On some teams the kickers would put them through a cycle in the dryer. Some teams did this, but naturally not the Steelers, because we were righteous folk who would never stretch the rules, and when these other teams—not the Steelers—were finished, they would put them back in the plastic wrapping and right back in the box. Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pound of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier. It was what might be called a perceived advantage-both teams played with the same ball.

Looks like more and more examples of other teams doing it will come out (although this is a lot older incident).

Hazys

Seems a little crazy that the NFL would allow teams provide their own balls so each QB could treat the ball to their preference and not expect them to be altered in a way that didn't bend the rules.

Its looking like its common practice for QBs to try and get away as much as they can and it seems like the Refs allowed it...this might be the only thing that saves the Patriots.

I can only imagine that the rules will be massively changed this off season as the whole situation seems crazy to me.

kryogen

The rules were changed....can't remember when, but it was Peyton Manning saying he wanted the balls to be able to be deflated a bit more which introduced the limits I believe

Tesco Massacre

It's in the best interests of the football team.

Hazys

Rich Gannon:

Ask any quarterback, and this is a non-issue. Everybody does something, to them. It's like a pitcher, he wants the ball a certain way. Take Tiger Woods, you wouldn't tell him after he's been hitting a 10.5 degree loft all week with a certain ball that, 'Hey, now we're going to switch your ball out.' That's his thing, and it's that specific feel that you want. That football is how we make our living and it sounds crazy, but it's a sacred thing. It's got to be a certain way.

Boomer Esiason:

It really does seem totally ridiculous that this story has been blown so far out of proportion. If you look at the footballs that the quarterbacks are playing with and throwing for the last six or seven years, just realize that everybody is doing the same thing.

Donovan McNabb:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/donovan-mcnabb-explains-patriots-deflate-gate/video/gm-5372263

poldebruin

With regards to people wondering about levels of evidence and plausible deniability....from the Washington Post.

Goodell wrote in a March 2008 memo to the league’s competition committee that he would impose tougher penalties for future violations of the competitive-balance rules.

“Too often, competitive violations have gone unpunished because conclusive proof of the violation was lacking,” Goodell wrote in that memo. “I believe we should reconsider the standard of proof to be applied in such cases, and make it easier for a competitive violation to be established. And where a violation is shown, I intend to impose more stringent penalties on both the club and the responsible individual(s). I will also be prepared to make greater use of draft choice forfeiture in appropriate cases. I believe this will have the effect of deterring violations and making people more willing to report violations on a timely basis.”


...now, in light of the Ray Rice scandal, perhaps Goodell will thread more lightly, but as long as the NFL punishes the club and not an individual, I don't think there will be any legal issues with any sanction meted out. i.e. no fines or suspensions for individuals, but draft picks and cap penalties would be fair game.

It would be worth remembering that the Cowboys and Redskins were severely punished (and they didn't even break any rules) during the uncapped year (between the old and new CBA, I think), when it was found they had used the year to overload contracts, and broke a kind of 'gentleman's agreement' that they (and they other 30 teams) would not do so.

frostie500

Alright lads, keep it on the topic in hand

poldebruin

Where has it gone off topic or were posts removed?

Hazys

@MattLeinartQB

Every team tampers with the footballs, Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!


The more NFL people talk, the more it gets downplayed as common practice.

The more sports journalists and talking heads talk, the more scandalous it gets.

eagle eye

There will be loads of people coming out defending this but the haters will just wait until that dies down a bit and then get back on their soap box and start nagging about how the Patriots, and only the Patriots, cheated.

You just gotta accept that there are many people who just love to hate the Patriots and the media just love to create a scandal even if the topic is not worthy of being a scandal.