Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

Oat23

Hazys wrote: »

Obviously they are different acts but they are very similar too.

Both occurred after inspection of the balls by the refs but in the Panthers and Vikings case they were both specifically told not to heat the balls by the officials the week of the game and they still went ahead and did it. A warmer ball is easier to throw and catch giving a competitive advantage. These are all the arguments against the Patriots in Deflategate, except the teams were told beforehand not to do it and they still did it.

What is the major distinction in your mind that makes them completely different in terms of severity of the crime?

Also, I don't get why you keep saying their actions meet league requirements when the league told them it was illegal to do it.

Never said their actions met league requirements, the ball does. The refs said not to do it, you're right. But if they take a ball and test it after being heated it would be accepted by a ref. That's why I don't consider what the Panthers did to be as big a deal.

They are not completely different crimes in that they are both ball tampering. What makes what the Pats are accused of worse for me is that they altered the balls to the point where they do not meet league requirements.

If we're going to start punishing teams for tampering with balls modified by the weather, where does it end? Shall we stop ball boys from drying balls in the rain? Should they ban QBs from having hand warmers so they cannot get a competitive advantage with warmer hands?

I do quite like the nickname Carolina Cheetahs though.

kryogen

You don't consider what the panthers did a big deal, doing the exact thing they were told not to do by officials is not a big deal in that case, says it all about how biased you are doesnt it.

bruschi

Oat23 wrote: »

Never said their actions met league requirements, the ball does. The refs said not to do it, you're right. But if they take a ball and test it after being heated it would be accepted by a ref. That's why I don't consider what the Panthers did to be as big a deal.

They are not completely different crimes in that they are both ball tampering. What makes what the Pats are accused of worse for me is that they altered the balls to the point where they do not meet league requirements.

If we're going to start punishing teams for tampering with balls modified by the weather, where does it end? Shall we stop ball boys from drying balls in the rain? Should they ban QBs from having hand warmers so they cannot get a competitive advantage with warmer hands?

I do quite like the nickname Carolina Cheetahs though.

they were explicitly told not to heat the balls. from what I gather, it was for the kicking balls. When heated, it would increase the air pressure, but who knows if it would restore its pregame state or exceed it. Either way, they were told not to do it, they did it, and you still see this as minor and the potential accusation on the Patriots as major? Is it not black and white as some say? they contravened a rule, and worse, went against said rule when they were directly told not to do so. This whole deflategate is massively overblown and its going to drag on even longer now.

Chucky the tree

The only thing more embarrassing to the media frenzy has been the Patriot's fans reaction to said media frenzy.

CJC86

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only thing more embarrassing to the media frenzy has been the Patriot's fans reaction to said media frenzy.

Ffs. That's just absurd.

Vanolder

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only thing more embarrassing to the media frenzy has been the Patriot's fans reaction to said media frenzy.

Why would that make you feel embarrassed?

bruschi

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only thing more embarrassing to the media frenzy has been the Patriot's fans reaction to said media frenzy.

More embarrassing than some calling for Brady to be suspended for the Superbowl, or Belichick to be fired, or the colts to replace the patriots in Superbowl?

kryogen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only thing more embarrassing to the media frenzy has been the Patriot's fans reaction to said media frenzy.

Mild amusement mixed with disdain?

Probably sounded clever in your head I guess....

kryogen

bruschi wrote: »

More embarrassing than some calling for Brady to be suspended for the Superbowl, or Belichick to be fired, or the colts to replace the patriots in Superbowl?

I liked the one where BB should be suspended for a year, the game to be replayed in Lucas Oil, Brady to be suspended for a year and both he and BB fined 500,000 dollars.

Kraft was to hand over ownership of the Patriots to the league, the tone is set from the the top after all.

Chucky the tree

Vanolder wrote: »

Why would that make you feel embarrassed?

I never said I was embarrased.

bruschi wrote: »

More embarrassing than some calling for Brady to be suspended for the Superbowl, or Belichick to be fired, or the colts to replace the patriots in Superbowl?

Yep.

kryogen wrote: »

Mild amusement mixed with disdain?

Probably sounded clever in your head I guess....

Yea, because that's generally been their reaction... :pac:

Vanolder

Have the offenders been beheaded yet?

kryogen

Vanolder wrote: »

Have the offenders been beheaded yet?

There is to be a ceremony at sundown on the 17th March.

adrian522

Nice to see the Patriots fans taking this with good grace.

j8wk2feszrnpao

adrian522 wrote: »

Nice to see the Patriots fans taking this with good grace.

Are you trying to wind people up? This comment seems to serve little other purpose other than trying to bait a reaction.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Are you trying to wind people up? This comment seems to serve little other purpose other than trying to bait a reaction.

i would say he's right. furthermore several pats fans statements over the last few days have seemed to have been done in that vain

Vanolder

Remember when mankind faced extinction after Luis Suarez bit someone in the world cup? That was a close thing. I don't think we will be as lucky this time, if the Patriots are not disbanded and the franchise moved to L.A then that's the end for us as a species.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Are you trying to wind people up? This comment seems to serve little other purpose other than trying to bait a reaction.

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

i would say he's right. furthermore several pats fans statements over the last few days have seemed to have been done in that vain

Vanolder wrote: »

Remember when mankind faced extinction after Luis Suarez bit someone in the world cup? That was a close thing. I don't think we will be as lucky this time, if the Patriots are not disbanded and the franchise moved to L.A then that's the end for us as a species.

case in point that didn't take long you stay classy

adrian522

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Are you trying to wind people up? This comment seems to serve little other purpose other than trying to bait a reaction.

No I'm not, it's an honest opinion, I think the reaction from some fans on here recently has been hysterical in the extreme, starting silly threads about the Browns and Aaron Rodgers, claiming the whole thing as a non issue and then progressing to the argument that it doesn't matter because everyone is doing it.

Not once have I seen a post along the lines that if they have tampered with footballs with the intention of gaining a competitive advantage then they deserve some form of punishment.

I have no strong opinion in the team one way or the other but I have to say the reaction from some on here has been strange.

bruschi

adrian522 wrote: »

Not once have I seen a post along the lines that if they have tampered with footballs with the intention of gaining a competitive advantage then they deserve some form of punishment.

Correct. Not once has a fan of the Patriots on here said if they tampered they will get a punishment. it was in fact said 7 times by 5 different posters.

bruschi wrote: »

If the balls were intentionally deflated on the sideline, then the Patriots will deserve any punishment they get.

TO. wrote: »

If it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt we cheated then Bob and Bill deserve everything coming to them.

bruschi wrote: »

I think you'll find most Pats on here have said IF they are clearly found guilty of intentionally, post inspection, tampering with the balls, then they deserve punishment.

TO. wrote: »

Most if not all Pats fans in here have said they deserve punishment.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If the Pats were deflating balls after they were inspected (and found to be within the correct limit), then it's such a stupid thing to do and punishment will have to be handed out.

Hazys wrote: »

The Pats should be punished and in my opinion it should be minimal

kryogen wrote: »

Yes I think it will be a soft punishment, simply because if too much of an example is made in this case (assuming guilty is the verdict)

adrian522 wrote: »

No I'm not, it's an honest opinion, I think the reaction from some fans on here recently has been hysterical in the extreme, starting silly threads about the Browns and Aaron Rodgers, claiming the whole thing as a non issue and then progressing to the argument that it doesn't matter because everyone is doing it.

Not once have I seen a post along the lines that if they have tampered with footballs with the intention of gaining a competitive advantage then they deserve some form of punishment.

I have no strong opinion in the team one way or the other but I have to say the reaction from some on here has been strange.

what do you expect form Patriots fans having to listen to heaps of trolling and all kinds of crap, when it really is such a minor issue been blown out of all proportion and the lead up to the superbowl is being dominated by 2 pounds of air in a ball.

I suppose I should again have to clarify that I do think if they are guilty they should be punished, as they will have gone against the rules and it will deserve a punishment. The league had set out a minimum fine of 25k for ball tampering issues, which going by the logic of the other minimum fines they have allocated, is way down the scale of violations.

Even consider this, there was more in the Patriots press room for the Tom Brady presser over a patially deflated football than there was there for when the announcement of Aaron Hernandez murder charges and being cut by the team.

j8wk2feszrnpao

adrian522 wrote: »

No I'm not, it's an honest opinion, I think the reaction from some fans on here recently has been hysterical

Maybe the reaction from some fans, perhaps on both sides, could be described as such. But you only seem to be focusing one side, not not sure you have no strong opinion.

adrian522 wrote: »

Not once have I seen a post along the lines that if they have tampered with footballs with the intention of gaining a competitive advantage then they deserve some form of punishment.

bruschi has covered this for me.
But in case it's not evident; I want the truth to come out. I hope that the report will exonerate the Pats, cause it seems the most baffling way to gain an advantage over a team that you've beaten so easily in recent games. But if they did, then they fully deserve to be punished.

me89

Patriots to make an announcement at 2.30 pm E.T

Fr Tod Umptious

me89 wrote: »

Patriots to make an announcement at 2.30 pm E.T

Probably to throw some ball boy under the bus

JaMarcusHustle

me89 wrote: »

Patriots to make an announcement at 2.30 pm E.T

Live on NFL Network for those with Game Pass.

Actually live here too: http://www.patriots.com/

adrian522

bruschi wrote: »

Correct. Not once has a fan of the Patriots on here said if they tampered they will get a punishment. it was in fact said 7 times by 5 different posters.

what do you expect form Patriots fans having to listen to heaps of trolling and all kinds of crap, when it really is such a minor issue been blown out of all proportion and the lead up to the superbowl is being dominated by 2 pounds of air in a ball.

I suppose I should again have to clarify that I do think if they are guilty they should be punished, as they will have gone against the rules and it will deserve a punishment. The league had set out a minimum fine of 25k for ball tampering issues, which going by the logic of the other minimum fines they have allocated, is way down the scale of violations.

Even consider this, there was more in the Patriots press room for the Tom Brady presser over a patially deflated football than there was there for when the announcement of Aaron Hernandez murder charges and being cut by the team.

Fair enough I haven't been through the whole thread but my points still stands, some of the Patriots fans on here have come out with some hysterical posts

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Maybe the reaction from some fans, perhaps on both sides, could be described as such. But you only seem to be focusing one side, not not sure you have no strong opinion.


bruschi has covered this for me.
But in case it's not evident; I want the truth to come out. I hope that the report will exonerate the Pats, cause it seems the most baffling way to gain an advantage over a team that you've beaten so easily in recent games. But if they did, then they fully deserve to be punished.

I genuinely have no ax to grind with the Patriots I'll be rooting for them next weekend but just pointing out some of the crazy posts/threads I've read this week.

bruschi

adrian522 wrote: »

Fair enough I haven't been through the whole thread but my points still stands, some of the Patriots fans on here have come out with some hysterical posts



I genuinely have no ax to grind with the Patriots I'll be rooting for them next weekend but just pointing out some of the crazy posts/threads I've read this week.

That's fair enough, but as Munster says, that's not one way traffic either and there has been some ridiculous stuff the opposite way. Thing is to try find the middle ground

Mr. Guappa

I just love Bill Belichick's sense of humour.

Sad thing is, while he and god knows how many Patriots staff have been wasting days on this deflategate nonsense, the Seahawks have been focussed soley on the SuperBowl.

Hazys

A lot of people need to start lining up and apologizing to the Patriots, BB and TB12, but i wouldn't hold my breathe tho.

There is going to be so many butthurt people because of this.

Hazys

BB teamtalk to the players about the haters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afNR1clZNYc

Paully D

Very strange how only the Patriots balls were impacted by the climate, which is essentially what Belichick blamed for them becoming deflated.

From Peter King's MMQB column:

JaMarcusHustle

Not really. The Patriots balls were prepared to 12.5 psi. The results should only be identical if the Colts also prepare there's to the same psi. Do we know what psi they use?

Paully D

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Not really. The Patriots balls were prepared to 12.5 psi. The results should only be identical if the Colts also prepare there's to the same psi. Do we know what psi they use?

Fair point which I didn't consider.

The whole thing is just far too confusing for me to know either way. I'm out. :pac:

Hazys

Paully D wrote: »

Very strange how only the Patriots balls were impacted by the climate, which is essentially what Belichick blamed for them becoming deflated.

From Peter King's MMQB column:

Did you even listen to what he said?

It wasn't the climate, it was their process of prepping the balls by rubbing them etc, that caused them to be 1 psi higher than usual. Then they give the balls to the refs who would inflate them to 12.5 psi and once the balls settled they would drop a 1 psi to 11.5 psi.

He mention climate later and said that was a different topic.

Hazys

One reason the Colts balls didn't drop in psi was probably that they had a different method of prepping the balls that didn't cause an artificial increase in pressure.

EDIT: To JaMarcus' point if the Colts started at a higher psi than 12.5, it had more room to drop also.

And the main reason the Colts balls weren't deflated is: If you were going to complain to the NFL that the Patriots balls were deflated, wouldn't you make sure that your balls were of the correct pressure before accusing somebody else? #snitching101

kryogen

Butt hurt

Butt hurt everywhere

Hazys

Every Pats fan:

Fr Tod Umptious

Have I missed the official statement of the investigation by the NFL or something ?

kryogen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Have I missed the official statement of the investigation by the NFL or something ?

Oh, were you not aware?

I thought everybody had heard..................

j8wk2feszrnpao

Missed parts of the press conference, but Bill did seem to give a good explanation during the parts I saw.
Will still wait for NFL to close the matter out; but glad to see Bill put it behind himself and the team so they can fully focus on the SB.

adrian522

Hazys wrote: »

A lot of people need to start lining up and apologizing to the Patriots, BB and TB12, but i wouldn't hold my breathe tho.

There is going to be so many butthurt people because of this.

Who exactly needs to lineup and apologise?

kryogen

adrian522 wrote: »

Who exactly needs to lineup and apologise?

I will pull a random name out of the list

Mark Brunell

As soon as the league rubber stamps this he should be outside the stadium to apologise.

Then he should apologise to his parents and family for almost crying over it.

kryogen

Brady bashing reached an all time high the last 24-48 hours and those people could also begin to line up now. Get it out of the way early and have the good grace to acknowledge they may have jumped the gun, may have gone over the top, may have hyped the **** out of something, that was never deserving of the attention it got.

The glee filled parade where the people rang out choruses of Patriots being cheats, Brady, BB, Kraft all despicable cheats, those people can stay in their parade formation but will now need to bow the head a little and swallow the bitter humble pie.

Fr Tod Umptious

I for one am not going to accept that the reason for the deflation has been established when its coming from the head coach of the team under investigation who just wants this whole thing to go away before they head for AZ.

I think I'll wait for the NFL report, which will be after the Superbowl.

kryogen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I for one am not going to accept that the reason for the deflation has been established when its coming from the head coach of the team under investigation who just wants this whole thing to go away before they head for AZ.

I think I'll wait for the NFL report, which will be after the Superbowl.

Good for you, I assume you have always had this position? Waiting for the official report to pass any judgement?

Fr Tod Umptious

kryogen wrote: »

Good for you, I assume you have always had this position? Waiting for the official report to pass any judgement?

Of course not.
But this case is so intriguing that I'm just not willing to accept the explanation of the team under investigation before I hear a counter argument, if there even is one.

I'd like to think the Pats did nothing wrong here, but I'm not sure if that is the case.

If they are found guilty then it tarnishes tlegacy even further in the eyes of many.

Vanolder

adrian522 wrote: »

No I'm not, it's an honest opinion, I think the reaction from some fans on here recently has been hysterical in the extreme, starting silly threads about the Browns and Aaron Rodgers, claiming the whole thing as a non issue and then progressing to the argument that it doesn't matter because everyone is doing it.

Not once have I seen a post along the lines that if they have tampered with footballs with the intention of gaining a competitive advantage then they deserve some form of punishment.

I have no strong opinion in the team one way or the other but I have to say the reaction from some on here has been strange.

Those threads were started to point out the over hysterical nature of the whole situation, mate. I thought most intelligent folk would see that... If the Pats were caught cheating they will be punished and the world will move on.

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Of course not.
But this case is so intriguing that I'm just not willing to accept the explanation of the team under investigation before I hear a counter argument, if there even is one.

I'd like to think the Pats did nothing wrong here, but I'm not sure if that is the case.

If they are found guilty then it tarnishes tlegacy even further in the eyes of many.

Belichick did a presser to clear things up. Its not like him to do that but he has definitive proof that they did nothing wrong so he went and spoke to the media.

Its game, set and match as far as this thing is concerned. The NFL are going to have the same findings and there will be no punishment.

kryogen

eagle eye wrote: »

Belichick did a presser to clear things up. Its not like him to do that but he has definitive proof that they did nothing wrong so he went and spoke to the media.

Its game, set and match as far as this thing is concerned. The NFL are going to have the same findings and there will be no punishment.

This is exactly why I feel so confident it is done and dusted bar the rubber stamp, its just not like Bill to come out and speak about stuff, he has got to be absolutely sure.

eagle eye

kryogen wrote: »

This is exactly why I feel so confident it is done and dusted bar the rubber stamp, its just not like Bill to come out and speak about stuff, he has got to be absolutely sure.

Loved his spygate answer too, he just pwn'd them all today.:D

j8wk2feszrnpao

kryogen wrote: »

I will pull a random name out of the list

Mark Brunell

As soon as the league rubber stamps this he should be outside the stadium to apologise.

Then he should apologise to his parents and family for almost crying over it.

Is there anyone, on either side of the argument, that didn't cringe at Mark Brunell?

bruschi

Whilst I am glad the team seems confident to put this behind them and can move on, I'll still wait on the official investigation before being totally satisfied. It was a positive move today tho