Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

Hazys · 26-01-2015 3:07am

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

nope i agree 100 percent it made no difference to the game and should have only been mentioned on sports channels the issues are

1.its happened right before a super bowl that the pats are appearing in which means people who only watch the Super Bowl became aware of it and it got wayyyyyyy out of hand.
2. similarly to spy gate its become a bigger deal than it actually is because the pats are so successful they are one of 3-4 franchises that this would be as big an issue with.

for example the brown issue who gives a crap they're unsuccessful which leads you to believe there cheating is unsuccessful whereas with a patriots or seahawks issue get the press seeing headlines of grand conspiracies

edit:also the donal sterling scandal is irrelevant as the nba is not close to as big as the nfl

I think you are saying the same thing as I am. That the issue is overblown for the reasons that you have pointed out.

kryogen · 26-01-2015 3:31am

Deleted User wrote: »

Or perhaps it's because...

Ravens fans accept Rice was wrong...

Vikings fans accept Peterson was wrong...

Saints fans accept Bountygate was wrong...

Vick fans accept Vick was wrong...

Dolphins fans accept the bullying was wrong...

But Pats fans line up to say nothing was wrong, or that it wasn't that wrong, or that every other team cheats too, or that it's a conspiracy, which provokes a response...

Couple of things wrong with this post.

NotASheeple · 26-01-2015 3:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

Or perhaps it's because...

Ravens fans accept Rice was wrong......

Yes and there's a lot of hypocrisy amongst some of them. Suggs is a complete scum bag. He's had two Judicial protective court orders issued against him after he beat his woman. Conveniently enough, she withdrew allegations he was abusing her and his kid, after he put the oul ring on her finger and kept her quite.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/09/terrell_suggs_domestic_violence_like_his_teammate_ray_rice_the_ravens_linebacker.html

Before the lift footage emerged on Rice. The sight of his wife being forced to do a very weird and scripted Ravens press conference with her husband, was pretty sick and disturbing. Lets spit on Rice and hero worship Suggs. Hypocrisy of the highest order imo.

Deleted User wrote: »

Vikings fans accept Peterson was wrong.........

No not all of them. You'll be surprised to learn that beating your kid with a switch is acceptable to many Americans.

Deleted User wrote: »

Saints fans accept Bountygate was wrong............

How could they not? After all, we are talking about a program that was designed to intentionally injure and take opponents out of a game.

Deleted User wrote: »

Vick fans accept Vick was wrong...............

Well he is a convicted criminal, how could they not accept his guilt.

Deleted User wrote: »

Dolphins fans accept the bullying was wrong..................

Yet there are Dolphins fans that thought it was all nonsense. That it should have been kept in house and Martin was just a whining bítch.

Deleted User wrote: »

But Pats fans line up to say nothing was wrong

But nobody knows if anything wrong actually happened. We haven't had any findings from the NFL yet.

Breaking News: Shock horror, a teams fans defend their team:

The point you seemed to have deliberately overlooked, was the point made by a Pats fan earleir. All of those controversies you mentioned, are dwarfed in size and number, by the level of outraged expressed over a minor ball inflation level issue. So the least serious of all the issues you mentioned, has generated the most outrage. And I find that pretty laughable tbh.

26-01-2015 3:49am

connor never said pats fans where wrong or right to defend the pats he merely pointed it out as a reason as to why this thread is long and the others where not

NotASheeple · 26-01-2015 3:56am

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

connor never said pats fans where wrong or right to defend the pats he merely pointed it out as a reason as to why this thread is long and the others where not

But it doesn't explain why the most minor issue of all the ones mentioned, has generated the most outrage from some opposing fans.

Chucky the tree · 26-01-2015 9:37am

NotASheeple wrote: »

But it doesn't explain why the most minor issue of all the ones mentioned, has generated the most outrage from some opposing fans.

It hasn't though. There are lots of Pats fans on this forum and thus lots of them have posts lots of times on this thread. There aren't the same amount of Vikings, Falcons, Browns or Ravens fans.

poldebruin · 26-01-2015 9:59am

NotASheeple wrote: »

But it doesn't explain why the most minor issue of all the ones mentioned, has generated the most outrage from some opposing fans.

I could hazard a guess....

1. It was in a very high profile game. Had this been regular season, it would not have blown up as much because...
2. There was no other NFL news to dilute the effects.
3. If it turns out to be true, it could be evidence of systematic cheating by an NFL team. This would be a huge story. Far bigger than any of the aforementioned scandals, which were for the most part, individual misconduct.
4. If it turns out to be false , the NFL will have to answer questions about their handling and the supposed "trap" they lay for the Patriots.
5. When an issue is not black and white, it leads to more discussion from each side. The Peterson case was huge, but it barely got discussed on Boards because there was not much to discuss. Only one or two people defended the behaviour.
6. The thread has gone meta....we're now discussing the discussion.

26-01-2015 10:16am

NotASheeple wrote: »

The point you seemed to have deliberately overlooked, was the point made by a Pats fan earleir. All of those controversies you mentioned, are dwarfed in size and number, by the level of outraged expressed over a minor ball inflation level issue. So the least serious of all the issues you mentioned, has generated the most outrage. And I find that pretty laughable tbh.

You missed the point.

I was not comparing the offences at all. The point was made about the reaction. I merely observed that Pats fans are piling in to defend the allegations. There is nothing wrong with that at all. But let's not overlook that in discussing the posts generated, some pages here consist of posts almost entirely made up of Pats fans. Meanwhile you have threads generated by posters like Vanolder that are spin offs.

26-01-2015 1:05pm

NotASheeple wrote: »

But it doesn't explain why the most minor issue of all the ones mentioned, has generated the most outrage from some opposing fans.

as the above posters have mentioned its generated little to no outrage on boards

Hazys · 26-01-2015 2:19pm

He's wearing a lab coat godammit, so its gotta be true.

Question is if it is this simple to prove, whats taking the NFL so long?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:07pm

Hazys wrote: »

Question is if it is this simple to prove, whats taking the NFL so long?

Brady now expects it to be after SB before he speaks with NFL on issue
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463274/article/tom-brady-expects-to-talk-with-nfl-after-super-bowl

#nflincompetence

26-01-2015 4:10pm

Hazys wrote: »

He's wearing a lab coat godammit, so its gotta be true.

Question is if it is this simple to prove, whats taking the NFL so long?

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Brady now expects it to be after SB before he speaks with NFL on issue
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463274/article/tom-brady-expects-to-talk-with-nfl-after-super-bowl

#nflincompetence

nfl rushed the bounty gate report and that was a disaster also i think its unfair to the likes of brady if he is interviewed about it coming up to the Super Bowl I'm supprised he spent longer than absolutely necessary at the interview he gave to the press and he did feel a big uncomfortable about the whole situation. i think the patriots as an organisation are better off if most of the inquiry is done after the Super Bowl

also with regards that video in particular if that is the case how where all the colts balls at the correct pressure. bills rolling the ball theory is more likely

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:42pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

nfl rushed the bounty gate report and that was a disaster

In this case it appears that the NFL 'set a trap' for the Patriots, so they should have been ready for this.
Plus, not interviewing the QB in the first week of investigation? Come on. This is amateur stuff from the NFL.

The NFL have huge resources behind them.
Bill (and it appears the above video) had done their tests, and come to a conclusion that between the prep work on the ball and the weather, the PSI difference could be explained.
No reason the NFL couldn't have conducted similar tests, interviewed everyone they needed to, and finalized their report by the weekend.

I'm not saying the the above video or Bills tests prove the Pats innocence; just that they appear to have been able to move a lot quicker than the NFL.

Instead the NFL have been very quiet and Goddell has gone missing entirely. If nothing comes of this (and if the 'trap' is true) it's going to look bad for the NFL.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:46pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

also with regards that video in particular if that is the case how where all the colts balls at the correct pressure.

We know the starting pressure of the Pats balls (12.5), but not the Colts.
But we don't know what the Colts (or Pats) ball pressures were at HT?
What if Luck likes them at 13.5?
Maybe they kept them drier/warmer on their side?

This is why I think the NFL has shown a degree of incompetence. These should be questions easily answered by their own game officals who did the tests.

26-01-2015 4:49pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

We know the starting pressure of the Pats balls (12.5), but not the Colts.
But we don't know what the Colts (or Pats) ball pressures were at HT?
What if Luck likes them at 13.5?
Maybe they kept them drier/warmer on their side?

This is why I think the NFL has shown a degree of incompetence. These should be questions easily answered by their own game officals who did the tests.

if 11 of the patriots ball where 2 lbs under then even if lucks balls where 13.5 there would still be at least a few under 12.5

but your right we really dont know that much yet and its not necessarily incompetence from the nfl they need to no these things not us

26-01-2015 4:53pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

In this case it appears that the NFL 'set a trap' for the Patriots, so they should have been ready for this.
Plus, not interviewing the QB in the first week of investigation? Come on. This is amateur stuff from the NFL.

The NFL have huge resources behind them.
Bill (and it appears the above video) had done their tests, and come to a conclusion that between the prep work on the ball and the weather, the PSI difference could be explained.
No reason the NFL couldn't have conducted similar tests, interviewed everyone they needed to, and finalized their report by the weekend.

I'm not saying the the above video or Bills tests prove the Pats innocence; just that they appear to have been able to move a lot quicker than the NFL.

Instead the NFL have been very quiet and Goddell has gone missing entirely. If nothing comes of this (and if the 'trap' is true) it's going to look bad for the NFL.

"set a trap" in what way didn't the colts players request the refs check the pressure how is that a trap?

sure bill did but as you said he's massively biased the nfls tests have to be more thorough whereas the pats can just find a way that may explain it. to be honest id be disappointed if they had come out with a conclusion by now

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:53pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

if 11 of the patriots ball where 2 lbs under then even if lucks balls where 13.5 there would still be at least a few under 12.5

but your right we really dont know that much yet and its not necessarily incompetence from the nfl they need to no these things not us

That's kinda the issue I have with the NFL; we know so little from them (apart from what they want to leak) and they have allowed this to over shadow the SB.
I do think it's incompetence not to have spoken with TB in the first week.

Vanolder · 26-01-2015 4:55pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

That's kinda the issue I have with the NFL; we know so little from them (apart from what they want to leak) and they have allowed this to over shadow the SB.
I do think it's incompetence not to have spoken with TB in the first week.

You build your case first then take the suspect in for questioning.

26-01-2015 4:55pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

That's kinda the issue I have with the NFL; we know so little from them (apart from what they want to leak) and they have allowed this to over shadow the SB.
I do think it's incompetence not to have spoken with TB in the first week.

i dont think so even if they had come out the next day with a conclusion people would still be asking questions regardless.

again maby they should have spoken to brady but i dont think thats fair to him he's got a big game to prepare for

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:56pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

"set a trap" in what way didn't the colts players request the refs check the pressure how is that a trap?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-nfl-run-sting-operation-on-patriots-to-trigger-deflate-gate--051258575.html

ESPN's Ed Werder reiterated that suggestion on Twitter on Sunday.

When told of suspected cheating by #Pats, #NFL tried to catch them in act rather than reminding them of rules. Is something wrong with that?
— Ed Werder (@Edwerderespn) January 25, 2015

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 4:58pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

i dont think so even if they had come out the next day with a conclusion people would still be asking questions regardless.

No one suggesting that it should be the next day.

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

again maby they should have spoken to brady but i dont think thats fair to him he's got a big game to prepare for

Maybe? He's the QB, a person you directed an accusations towards, and you think they maybe should have spoken with him?
It's not fair to interview him before the SB, but it's fair to allow the whole thing blow up and let it hang over the SB?

26-01-2015 5:00pm

if thats the case the nfl was wrong to do that but if thats the case they had previous information stating that the pats where doing this if they then caught them doing it in the game that they did set the trap that would point to the pats being guilty (if the setting a trap story is true)

adrian522 · 26-01-2015 5:01pm

The NFL are doing the right thing by not hauling players in the week of the Superbowl. They have enough on their minds with prepping for one of the biggest games of their lives without being interviewed by the NFL on this ball tampering allegation.

I would have said it's a smart move by the NFL and not incompetence.

26-01-2015 5:07pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No one suggesting that it should be the next day.

within the week would have been rushing it anyway they couldn't have had a case prepared just like that theres a lot of background work to do

Maybe? He's the QB, a person you directed an accusations towards, and you think they maybe should have spoken with him?
It's not fair to interview him before the SB, but it's fair to allow the whole thing blow up and let it hang over the SB?

yes i did and i will repeat again (because it seems to be being ignored) that straight away afterwords i said it was my opinion given the facts we had at the time I'm in no position to be accusing anyone. if an organisation can't shut out the press on the week of a Super Bowl they have bigger issues than this.

also i would imagine if they where getting pulled into nfl headquarters and then ye lost the Super Bowl you would not be to happy about that

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 5:09pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

if thats the case the nfl was wrong to do that but if thats the case they had previous information stating that the pats where doing this

It appears that there was others who felt the Pats balls may have been under inflated. They have no information that the Pats were doing it (just suspicions).

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

if they then caught them doing it in the game that they did set the trap that would point to the pats being guilty (if the setting a trap story is true)

If they caught them doing it in the game, then they would have proof. Clearly they didn't, hence the investigation.
Setting a 'trap' doesn't prove guilt, it's to catch a team or obtain evidence.

26-01-2015 5:11pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It appears that there was others who felt the Pats balls may have been under inflated. They have no information that the Pats were doing it (just suspicions).

If they caught them doing it in the game, then they would have proof. Clearly they didn't, hence the investigation.
Setting a 'trap' doesn't prove guilt, it's to catch a team or obtain evidence.

but if they had suspicions and the game that they set that trap the balls just happened to be under inflated that does not look great

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 5:12pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

yes i did and i will repeat again (because it seems to be being ignored)

Not ignored at all.
Just highlighting the rush to judgement people had of the QB.

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

within the week would have been rushing it anyway they couldn't have had a case prepared just like that theres a lot of background work to do

Such as?

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

also i would imagine if they where getting pulled into nfl headquarters and then ye lost the Super Bowl you would not be to happy about that

Pulled into NFL headquarters? They visited the Pats.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 5:14pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

but if they had suspicions and the game that they set that trap the balls just happened to be under inflated that does not look great

Yes, it didn't look great.
But that doesn't point to the Pats being guilty.

clear thinking · 26-01-2015 5:21pm

The issue could come down to due process. If the rules are that the balls are presented and approved by officials they cant then be subsequently disapproved. I would think this actually now gives NE an easy out from any penalty, or huge leverage to minimise any penalty simply by threatening legal action.

26-01-2015 5:22pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not ignored at all.
Just highlighting the rush to judgement people had of the QB.
yet that one misphrase has been brought up again and again if the patriots are found guilty (and I'm not sure if they are anymore) then i maintain that it makes sense that brady was involved. i also stick to my stance that he would have been able to tell the difference in psi as other qbs have stated since (and brady has for that matter)

Such as?
honestly i dont know but theres no way its as easy as you seem to think its a multi billion dollar industry legal comes into it even on this minor an issue. do you disagree with me on this?
Pulled into NFL headquarters? They visited the Pats.
still a distraction and i dont think its fair to an organisation/players that have not been proven guilty the weeks before the Super Bowl

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yes, it didn't look great.
But that doesn't point to the Pats being guilty.

i agree and i am starting to lean towards my opinion vein that they are innocent but it does look bad

Hazys · 26-01-2015 5:23pm

Setting a trap seriously questions the NFL's integrity, that ironically they are trying to protect.

So they were going to allow the Patriots cheat for a full half of football in the 2nd biggest game of the year so they could catch them.

What if they found out that deflating the balls was a major competitive advantage and the Pats were up by 30/40 points at halftime and they caught them cheating after? The game would have become a mockery and couldn't stand. They were willing to to risk that?!?!? The Patriots would have had to been thrown out of the Super Bowl.

A phone call prior to the game would have diffused the entire situation and no controversy over shadowing the Super Bowl. The NFL has a huge hand in causing this mess.

26-01-2015 5:25pm

clear thinking wrote: »

The issue could come down to due process. If the rules are that the balls are presented and approved by officials they cant then be subsequently disapproved. I would think this actually now gives NE an easy out from any penalty, or huge leverage to minimise any penalty simply by threatening legal action.

i agree and even if the rolling the balls theory is true it does mean they would have intentionally had the balls outside of the legal parameters for the game but from what i can tell it wouldn't be a blatant breaking of the rules so they would be innocent in that case (or maby it would i really dont know if the rules states the ball needs to be at the correct psi for the inspection or during the game)

26-01-2015 5:27pm

Hazys wrote: »

Setting a trap seriously questions the NFL's integrity, that ironically they are trying to protect.

So they were going to allow the Patriots cheat for a full half of football in the 2nd biggest game of the year so they could catch them.

What if they found out that deflating the balls was a major competitive advantage and the Pats were up by 30/40 points at halftime and they caught them cheating after? The game would have become a mockery and couldn't stand. They were willing to to risk that?!?!?

A phone call prior to the game would have diffused the entire situation and no controversy over shadowing the Super Bowl. The NFL has a huge hand in causing this mess.

i agree with this thats why i would question it but if its proved true a ****storm of negative pr should hit the nfl

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-01-2015 5:32pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

honestly i dont know but theres no way its as easy as you seem to think its a multi billion dollar industry legal comes into it even on this minor an issue. do you disagree with me on this?)

I never said it's easy; but for a hugely resourced organization like the NFL, they appear to be making it quite complicated.
You said it there was a lot of background work to be done, I was just asking what that was? Surely when they visited Foxboro, speaking with TB should have been part of that?

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

still a distraction and i dont think its fair to an organisation/players that have not been proven guilty the weeks before the Super Bowl

I agree. But once they leaked the single piece of information (about 11 of the 12 balls), they caused the distraction to erupt.

26-01-2015 5:35pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I never said it's easy; but for a hugely resourced organization like the NFL, they appear to be making it quite complicated.
You said it there was a lot of background work to be done, I was just asking what that was? Surely when they visited Foxboro, speaking with TB should have been part of that?

I agree. But once they leaked the single piece of information (about 11 of the 12 balls), they caused the distraction to erupt.

ya you could be right but i dont think they have done to much wrong yet from what iv seen(unless they did set a trap in that case boy did they mess up)

bruschi · 26-01-2015 5:40pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

yes i did and i will repeat again (because it seems to be being ignored) that straight away afterwords i said it was my opinion given the facts we had at the time I'm in no position to be accusing anyone. if an organisation can't shut out the press on the week of a Super Bowl they have bigger issues than this.

also i would imagine if they where getting pulled into nfl headquarters and then ye lost the Super Bowl you would not be to happy about that

are you joking here? they had more in the media room than in the history of the organisation for Belichick and Bradys press conference. More than any previous superbowl interview. More than the announcement of Hernandez's murder charges. Yet you think they should be able to shut out the media? This is far more of a distraction than if the NFL did their full enquiry, got Brady interviewed early, and moved on from this.

and now reports are emanating saying of the 11 balls that failed, only 1 of them was by 2, and the most by 1, which would lend more credence to what Belichick said. I just dont understand how the NFL couldnt have wrapped this up early. If the balls were under inflated, do the investigation, make the interviews on the Monday, do tests, whatever, and either fine them and move on quickly, or else leave it go. This is far worse now dragging it out and into Superbowl week.

If the Patriots end up being fully vindicated and innocent in this, I would be massively pi$$ed off over it all.

kryogen · 26-01-2015 5:54pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

as the above posters have mentioned its generated little to no outrage on boards

Nothing too outrageous, just **** like this.

I think the colts fans should be pushing for either a rematch or to take the patriots place in the Super Bowl.

If they have a rematch & still don't go through fair enough, but there should be a severe penalty to the patriots.

How many other games did this happen in that wasn't spotted?

You have to love how Pats fans imply 'everyone is at it' and 'we just got caught'

- wrong - the Pats were at it and got caught - and not for the first time -

It's the 'Patriot Way'

Personally I would reduce the Pats cap number by maybe €20million for a number of years - much better punishment for doing things the 'Patriot Way'.

That seems like a completely reasonable punishment to the Pats! I think that it's pretty clear that New England has something to answer for in this and that's what the investigation will show. Teams are always going to push to the limits of the regulations in any sport, that's the competitive edge that everyone strives for, and regardless of what Pats fans will think this isn't the league or the media being out to get them it's simply a case of a team being brought in front of the league to answer what happened.

I find the paranoia of some of the Patriots fans quite strange.

Ouch. I'm afraid the patriots are going to be pretty badly tarnished by this.

And it wont be forgotten in a very long time.

I expect them to be fined a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick at the least.

The Pats are constantly embroiled in this kind of stuff because they ARE doing it and they get caught.

26-01-2015 5:58pm

bruschi wrote: »

are you joking here? they had more in the media room than in the history of the organisation for Belichick and Bradys press conference. More than any previous superbowl interview. More than the announcement of Hernandez's murder charges. Yet you think they should be able to shut out the media? This is far more of a distraction than if the NFL did their full enquiry, got Brady interviewed early, and moved on from this.

and now reports are emanating saying of the 11 balls that failed, only 1 of them was by 2, and the most by 1, which would lend more credence to what Belichick said. I just dont understand how the NFL couldnt have wrapped this up early. If the balls were under inflated, do the investigation, make the interviews on the Monday, do tests, whatever, and either fine them and move on quickly, or else leave it go. This is far worse now dragging it out and into Superbowl week.

If the Patriots end up being fully vindicated and innocent in this, I would be massively pi$$ed off over it all.

no I'm not joking the patriots dont have to listen to the media and they can do they same thing the normally do with the press in the few mandatory media situations that are there (tell them feck all) and deal with it after the Super Bowl. i give them credit for what thee did the last day. it took balls to come straight out and answer every question but thats it, this should not affect an nfl franchise that functions properly (and it could be easily said that the pats function better than any other franchise) whereas if players where being interviewed left right and centre then i think that would affect them.

hell look at the hawks last year before the Super Bowl they had media all over them because the media knew that they would get a story out of them and if far from affected them.

26-01-2015 6:09pm

kryogen wrote: »

Nothing too outrageous, just **** like this.

That seems like a completely reasonable punishment to the Pats! I think that it's pretty clear that New England has something to answer for in this and that's what the investigation will show. Teams are always going to push to the limits of the regulations in any sport, that's the competitive edge that everyone strives for, and regardless of what Pats fans will think this isn't the league or the media being out to get them it's simply a case of a team being brought in front of the league to answer what happened.
hardly outrageous although i have no idea what the first sentience was in relation to so maby thats what you ment

I find the paranoia of some of the Patriots fans quite strange.
again hardly outrageous
Ouch. I'm afraid the patriots are going to be pretty badly tarnished by this.

And it wont be forgotten in a very long time.
for right or wrong (i think its unfair if id does happen) this is probably true
I expect them to be fined a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick at the least.
wouldnt agree with the at the least part but i have herd people that used to be involved in the league say that. one i just heard earlier was troy aikman he said that even though the issues are minor compared to some others if the pats are found guilty then they are repeat offenders in gaining an unfair competitive advantage and there punishment should be a competitive penalty so its hardly an outrage (although i believe the max penalty possibly is a 25k fine am i correct in this?)

the rest could definitely be called outrageous but thats a massive minority of posts on this thread i maintain its generated little to no outrage on here

kryogen · 26-01-2015 6:16pm

The way your post is structured hurts my eyes when I try to read it so forgive me but I just skipped to the end, I think you mis understand, I agree there has not been a huge outrage on boards, just **** like that, some stuff you could call outrageous but overall its been pretty level headed on here. The media is a different story but boards has been ok for the most part.

26-01-2015 6:19pm

kryogen wrote: »

The way your post is structured hurts my eyes when I try to read it so forgive me but I just skipped to the end, I think you mis understand, I agree there has not been a huge outrage on boards, just **** like that, some stuff you could call outrageous but overall its been pretty level headed on here. The media is a different story but boards has been ok for the most part.

ya it was poorly put together to be fair but you got the idea. thats all i was saying the media i think everyone agrees is going crazy overboard with this but they do that at times i like to think most posters on here are a bit more level headed as you said so its probably a fairer estimate of the situation

Adamcp898 · 26-01-2015 6:51pm

Going to throw my two cents in on this.

Do I believe BB and the Pats when they say that they had no knowledge as to the procedures and limitations for game ball preparation? No, they have proven to be the most meticulous franchise when it comes to preparation and "giving themselves the best chance to win" over a number of years and so I would find it unlikely that noone has considered the aspect of game ball preparatrion before.

Do I blame them for doing it?
Not a bit. In fact, now that the procedure for game ball condition control has been exposed as being so lax and unregulated I'd be surprised if no other team does it, and if they weren't I'd be wondering how they've missed out on it. This factor alone of the rules being so easy to circumnavigate is enough for me to put a lot of stock in all the current/previous players who have said "Everybody's at it".

As an aside here I'd like to say I think it's odd that the officials aren't more in charge of footballs and very odd that each team doesn't use the same set in a game.

Moving on to BB's press conference, I think he has been very clever in what he's done. He has put the relationship between pressure and temperature under the magnifying glass and drawn everyone's attention to this aspect of a football's condition. This effectively establishes the parameters that any investigation must address for the Patriots to be found unequivocally guilty (and therefore sanctionable).

My assumptions on why he would do this would be that from a scientific perspective to prove this we would always have to be using exact figures, and that he either knows or believes that the referees do not record the exact figures measured, only if it is above or below the permitted limits.

To explain this better - It seems that the Patriots prepare balls to 12.5 psi, and therefore any drop, be it by 0.1 or by 2 is enough to put the balls under the playable limit. BB and others have given temperature as a very plausible reason for this. But any dissenters to this view say "well why haven't the Colts' balls dropped by the same pressure then?". Well to prove that they haven't dropped by the same pressure as the Patriots' footballs then any investigation is going to have see the exact figures measured on the Colts' balls before and after the game in order to compare the factor by which they have changed, if any, to the factor by which the Patriots' balls have changed. And for that a simple record of whether each football was either within or outside the limits isn't going to cut it and exact figures will be required. But that's just my take on it right now and I could be way off the mark.

Hazys · 26-01-2015 7:58pm

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Rule 2

The Ball

Section 1

BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell. The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2

BALL SUPPLY

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing
field.

Adamcp898, although i dont entirely agree with a lot your saying

i agree on how lax the rule is and somewhat unenforceable.

Its insanely lax. The ball has to be within 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi but it makes no allowances for the fact that weather would make the ball lose pressure. So for example if the Packers are playing a sub zero game, the balls are going to be less than 12.5 psi when outdoors, are the Packers technically breaking the rules if they don't re-inflate the balls during the game?

According to BB's press conference, you can hand the ball to the ref way below 12.5 psi and ask them to inflate them to the pressure you want, is that against the rules or just common practice?

I think the NFL have opened a legal can of worms that they can't close because they rule they are saying is broken, looks like it can't be proven either way? The only way that the NFL could catch the Patriots is if the Patriots had somebody deflating the balls and that person was caught on camera.

Even saying that the Colts balls stayed inflated doesn't prove anything about the Patriots' balls.

The NFL has caused an awful mess.

Vandango · 26-01-2015 8:19pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

I find the paranoia of some of the Patriots fans quite strange.

This coming from the guy who posted only 11 times in the Bountygate thread.

And who has posted 55 times in this thread, a thread with a much less serious subject matter.

Seems pretty evident you’re obsessed with all things Patriots. So don’t be lecturing us about paranoia.

Adamcp898 · 26-01-2015 8:22pm

Hazys wrote: »

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Adamcp898, although i dont entirely agree with a lot your saying i agree on how lax the rule is and somewhat unenforceable.

Its insanely lax. The ball has to be within 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi but it makes no allowances for the fact that weather would make the ball lose pressure. So for example if the Packers are playing a sub zero game, the balls are going to be less than 12.5 psi when outdoors, are the Packers technically breaking the rules if they don't re-inflate the balls during the game?

According to BB's press conference, you can hand the ball to the ref way below 12.5 psi and ask them to inflate them to the pressure you want, is that against the rules or just common practice?

I think the NFL have opened a legal can of worms that they can't close because they rule they are saying is broken, looks like it can't be proven either way? The only way that the NFL could catch the Patriots is if the Patriots had somebody deflating the balls and that person was caught on camera.

Even saying that the Colts balls stayed inflated doesn't prove anything about the Patriots' balls.

The NFL has caused an awful mess.

Yep, and what I'm essentially saying is, in much short terms, is that by bringing an air of scientific procedure to this, BB is bestowing a requirement for exactness in the criteria by which any investigation uses to rule on the case - an exactness which he knows just can't be found because the rules are inherently inexact in what they call for and allow too much room for error/judgement.

26-01-2015 8:26pm

Vandango wrote: »

This coming from the guy who posted only 11 times in the Bountygate thread.

And who has posted 55 times in this thread, a thread with a much less serious subject matter.

Seems pretty evident you’re obsessed with all things Patriots. So don’t be lecturing us about paranoia.

that was a quote from the previous comment my response is in bold
there have been responses to all of my comments on this thread 55 comments have been part of conversations the 11 in the bounty gate threads where not
your post ironically enough seems to be vindication the original poster im far from obsessed with the pats im simply conversing on the only nfl thread that has kept going perhaps you should take a look at yourself before you start blindly criticising others

Hazys · 26-01-2015 8:53pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Yep, and what I'm essentially saying is, in much short terms, is that by bringing an air of scientific procedure to this, BB is bestowing a requirement for exactness in the criteria by which any investigation uses to rule on the case - an exactness which he knows just can't be found because the rules are inherently inexact in what they call for and allow too much room for error/judgement.

He could possibly be doing that but there's also the very strong possibility its the truth too (shocking to some I know).

Vandango · 26-01-2015 8:53pm

Ariana Plain Magenta wrote: »

that was a quote from the previous comment my response is in bold

there have been responses to all of my comments on this thread 55 comments have been part of conversations the 11 in the bounty gate threads where not

your post ironically enough seems to be vindication the original poster im far from obsessed with the pats im simply conversing on the only nfl thread that has kept going perhaps you should take a look at yourself before you start blindly criticising others

Then you need to go back and look at that post. There were no quote tags, it looked all over the shop and very misleading. If you were quoting someone, then quoting them correctly would avoid confusing the reader. To me it looked like you were asking and answering your own questions.

You also missed my earlier point. Whether you were initiating a post, or responding to a poster is irrelevant. You still have posted 55 times in this thread and only 11 times in the Bountygate thread.

As a few posters have already said, including non-Pats fans. The comparison to the reaction of some here has been a joke. Particularly when you put it side by side with Bountygate, Ray Rice, Vick ect, ect. And the fact that this thread, the most minor of these issues, dwarfs the entirety of all the rest. Well it just highlights the hypocrisy and downright pettiness of those who fell over themselves to post in here.

26-01-2015 8:57pm

Vandango wrote: »

Then you need to go back and look at that post. There were no quote tags, it looked all over the shop and very misleading. If you were quoting someone, then quoting them correctly would avoid confusing the reader. To me it looked like you were asking and answering your own questions.
didnt have a choice there was no link in the other post to quote someone
You also missed my earlier point. Whether you were initiating a post, or responding to a poster is irrelevant. You still have posted 55 times in this thread and only 11 times in the Bountygate thread.
nope reread my post i answered that
As a few posters have already said, including non-Pats fans. The comparison to the reaction of some here has been a joke. Particularly when you put it side by side with Bountygate, Ray Rice, Vick ect, ect. And the fact that this thread, the most minor of these issues, dwarfs the entirety of all the rest. Well it just highlights the hypocrisy and downright pettiness of those who fell over themselves to post in here.

and people have answered this as well there has been few outrageous posts on here and the reason this thread is bigger than the others are not because people think they are worse but because there is an actual case for conversation with this there was not with the rest they where just guilty.

you've come on to the thread and taken a post out of context and decided to go mad with it. go back and read through the thread and you will change your views quick enough

Adamcp898 · 26-01-2015 9:46pm

Hazys wrote: »

He could possibly be doing that but there's also the very strong possibility its the truth too (shocking to some I know).

Very true.

But I can't help but think that the Patriots have just decided to seize the advantage in the public spectrum of how this is going to play out of trying to establish the criteria by which they will be tried and judged.

I'd imagine they've got tired of the NFL keeping mum about everything and letting it escalate. They've just decided that to hell with it since the NFL are not going to stop everyone banging on about interpretations of how footballs should be measured by clarifying things, then we'll call your bluff and say show us the measurements in black and white that you should have been taking because we don't think you have them.

It'll be yet more egg on the face of the NFL this season if they have to come out and say we don't have proof one way or the other as to what happened because that will be an omission that they are the ones who have fudged up everything. And this story has gained too much traction and become too big for that to happen.

I half expect this one to Peter out over the next few weeks as the NFL pray for a seattle win because they know they can wipe away a poor investigation easier if they don't have people looking for a reason to taint a NE superbowl.

Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

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