should the gaa turn professional?

Realt Dearg Sec

ultrapercy wrote: »

a slightly smaller pitch.

Slightly smaller? A GAA pitch averages at 15000 metres squared, a soccer pitch averages about 7,500 metres squared. I'm not going to comment on whether GAA players are as fit as professional soccer players (almost certainly the answer is no, of course not, and why would they be?), but the idea that soccer players have more pitch to cover is simply b0llocks.

"Soccer players have more ground per player to cover with 11 players versus 15 in GAA" That's just not true. GAA involves 1000 square metres of ground per player, Soccer involves 670 square metres per player.

ultrapercy

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Slightly smaller? A GAA pitch averages at 15000 metres squared, a soccer pitch averages about 7,500 metres squared. I'm not going to comment on whether GAA players are as fit as professional soccer players (almost certainly the answer is no, of course not, and why would they be?), but the idea that soccer players have more pitch to cover is simply b0llocks.

"Soccer players have more ground per player to cover with 11 players versus 15 in GAA" That's just not true. GAA involves 1000 square metres of ground per player, Soccer involves 670 square metres per player.

I stand corrected the maximum ground per player in each sport is GAA 870 Soccer 730 when this is multiplied by minutes per game it's GAA 60900 Soccer 65700 so a 9% more ground to cover for the soccer player.. I find this interesting but don't think it either supports or undermines my point very much especially since it's a criteria and formula I thought up myself..

Mal-Adjusted

I don't want to backseat mod, but we all know the fitness argument is just going to go in circles like it always does.

Back on topic, a poster a few pages back said that professionalism is an eventuality. how? There simply isn't the money there. There also isn't the interest. You can get 40,000 people to a clash of two big teams but how big a crowd will you have for a PRO12 style league, 11 home and 11 away games?

Realt Dearg Sec

ultrapercy wrote: »

I stand corrected the maximum ground per player in each sport is GAA 870 Soccer 730 when this is multiplied by minutes per game it's GAA 60900 Soccer 65700 so a 9% more ground to cover for the soccer player.. I find this interesting but don't think it either supports or undermines my point very much especially since it's a criteria and formula I thought up myself..

I don't think it's relevant either. The players aren't as fit because they can't engage in a properly professional training regime involving full recovery, and all of the resources available to a professional operation. They can get pretty close, but only by putting immense pressure on the personal and working lives of their players, which is exactly the reason that there is pressure to professionalise.

As someone pointed out above, the emphasis should be on rowing back from that move towards greater pressure on personal and working life, but the GPA haven't shown much interest in actually protecting their players in this regard. Of course, they don't really protect themselves. In seeking an edge for their team, players are willing to make endless sacrifices in terms of training expectations etc. The combination of non-disclosure agreements, and the lack of any real commitment to collective bargaining regarding training expectation, means that you have to make every sacrifice that your manager asks, no matter how ridiculous. And the players, via the GPA, have done nothing to halt that. A proper collective bargaining agreement which set real limits on inter county squad training would benefit them all together, and they wouldn't need to keep seeking the edge by training more and more and more. But they don't do that. And then they wonder where their social and family life has disappeared to, and why their career is completely stalled when they hit their thirties. The pressure shouldn't be towards professionalism at all (which will actually worsen those issues), it should be in the other direction, where playing for your county is just a part of a well-balanced life.

Greendiamond

You have to look at the GAA as a whole when considering professionalising the sport. Intercounty GAA players have become such 'good ' players through a combination of natural skill and coaching. Coaching that most likely started aged 5 at a GAA club nursery - they were developed as players through regular trainng sessions, tournaments, availing of facilities in their clubs such as hurling walls. Developed further through the school systems sports competitions.

All the above were provided to a player by volunteers. The coaches that leave work and kill themselves to get to a 6pm training session for the unglamorous under 9 B team. The committee members who turn out to meetings, who ensure pitches are available, who turn up 3 hours ahead of a game to bucket water off a pitch so an under 12 game can go ahead. Parents who make sambos for feile, who fundraise for the club etc etc

None of these are paid - some gaa volunteers give up to 10 hours plus to help their club - there is no payment - they do it for the love of the game - for the sense of community.

Paying players would ruin this. Would destroy the game we all love. For every inter county player that's under pressure to make training sessions there is another juvenile coach under similar pressures - but without any hope of the same glory

The Lost Sheep

Greendiamond wrote: »

You have to look at the GAA as a whole when considering professionalising the sport. Intercounty GAA players have become such 'good ' players through a combination of natural skill and coaching. Coaching that most likely started aged 5 at a GAA club nursery - they were developed as players through regular trainng sessions, tournaments, availing of facilities in their clubs such as hurling walls. Developed further through the school systems sports competitions.

All the above were provided to a player by volunteers. The coaches that leave work and kill themselves to get to a 6pm training session for the unglamorous under 9 B team. The committee members who turn out to meetings, who ensure pitches are available, who turn up 3 hours ahead of a game to bucket water off a pitch so an under 12 game can go ahead. Parents who make sambos for feile, who fundraise for the club etc etc

None of these are paid - some gaa volunteers give up to 10 hours plus to help their club - there is no payment - they do it for the love of the game - for the sense of community.

Paying players would ruin this. Would destroy the game we all love. For every inter county player that's under pressure to make training sessions there is another juvenile coach under similar pressures - but without any hope of the same glory

How would professionalism ruin all that you describe? In what ways would the intro of pay for play ruin those things? I coach age grade sport and can you really say all the sacrifices made asa coach of age grade teams are the same as the number of sacrifices the elite inter county players make as I most certainly don't
With that kind of argument no sport ever should be or could be a professional sport.

Darkest Horse

Greendiamond wrote: »

You have to look at the GAA as a whole when considering professionalising the sport. Intercounty GAA players have become such 'good ' players through a combination of natural skill and coaching. Coaching that most likely started aged 5 at a GAA club nursery - they were developed as players through regular trainng sessions, tournaments, availing of facilities in their clubs such as hurling walls. Developed further through the school systems sports competitions.

All the above were provided to a player by volunteers. The coaches that leave work and kill themselves to get to a 6pm training session for the unglamorous under 9 B team. The committee members who turn out to meetings, who ensure pitches are available, who turn up 3 hours ahead of a game to bucket water off a pitch so an under 12 game can go ahead. Parents who make sambos for feile, who fundraise for the club etc etc

None of these are paid - some gaa volunteers give up to 10 hours plus to help their club - there is no payment - they do it for the love of the game - for the sense of community.

Paying players would ruin this. Would destroy the game we all love. For every inter county player that's under pressure to make training sessions there is another juvenile coach under similar pressures - but without any hope of the same glory

You've made a point but not backed it up with any argument. The amateur game would still exist.

CrabRevolution

I could see '000s of people walking away from the association if it went professional. It would lose a huge amount of goodwill.

The point is irrelevant though, since there isn't the money there to even pay players minimum wage. They'd likely be on short, 5 month contracts and then on the dole during the off season.

Greendiamond

Darkest Horse wrote: »

You've made a point but not backed it up with any argument. The amateur game would still exist.

The point is that you may not get the same element of volunteer support if the game went professional - the stalwarts who put in so much time to running a club, coaching a team etc may not be so inclined if players are changing club & county . Professionalism changes the whole concept of the gaa and this will filter down through all levels of the GAA structure - will you have parents choosing a particular club as it will give their child a better chance to make it as a professional gaa player ? Has huge implications for the game as whole

The Lost Sheep

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I could see '000s of people walking away from the association if it went professional. It would lose a huge amount of goodwill.

The point is irrelevant though, since there isn't the money there to even pay players minimum wage. They'd likely be on short, 5 month contracts and then on the dole during the off season.

Why would they walk away? Thats scaremongering at a seriously OTT level. How would it lose goodwill? With changes to how games are ran etc and improving number of games to some element of pay for play is certainly possibly.

Greendiamond wrote: »

The point is that you may not get the same element of volunteer support if the game went professional - the stalwarts who put in so much time to running a club, coaching a team etc may not be so inclined if players are changing club & county. Professionalism changes the whole concept of the gaa and this will filter down through all levels of the GAA structure - will you have parents choosing a particular club as it will give their child a better chance to make it as a professional gaa player? Has huge implications for the game as whole

Why would volunteer numbers drop? Didnt change much in relation to rugby when rugby went pro and players were changing province so why would GAA be so different. Parish rule would still be counted at junior level/age grade. Top level may be different with pay for play