Landlord Repairs Standoff

Drone808

campingcarist wrote: »

If you make a claim with the PRTB and look for compensation for "services paid for but not received" and/or "property not up to standard" and get an adjudication in your favour what will happen? the landlord has no money, so you are not going to get any compensation nor repairs as the landlord is likely to just sell up, even if he is in negative equity.

Believe me when I assure you, there will be no selling up going on here.

No Mortgage - no negative equity.

See above post.

I'm not sure what the answer is - do you know any good tenancy specific solicitors ?

macyard

Drone808 wrote: »

Large old period home type property - multiple courtyards, annexes etc etc

What kicked it off was the day I said that I wasn't willing to accept that no repairs would be scheduled and done after all our agreements and waiting 2 months for nothing to happen after resigning the lease. Then subsequently our first letter, which was typical legaleese looking stuff, was apparently "offensive" and really seemed to have flipped a switch.

The real reason: We stood up for ourselves and stopped backing down.

The cheek of the filthy peasants out the back.........

Is there other people living in your house building that the landord brought in not you? Do you share any internal area's with these people

Drone808

macyard wrote: »

Is there other people living in your house building that the landord brought in not you? Do you share any internal area's with these people

Site is a few acres in size - we're nothing to do with any of them, don't share anything except a 200m driveway, and are not attached to any of them.

macyard

Drone808 wrote: »

Site is a few acres in size - we're nothing to do with any of them, don't share anything except a 200m driveway, and are not attached to any of them.

That's fine when you said other tenants it sound like they where in your house which would be an issue for you.

Graces7

Drone808 wrote: »

The key here I see is this :

"reimburse the tenant in respect of "

That means the tenant advises of the intention to carry out repairs in writing, get's quotes etc, get's receipts, and then presents to landlord for payment.

Deducting it out of the rent is a whole different matter.

This very clause is one we have been considering - and it would be up to the PRTB to then mandate the reimbursement to us in respect of the receipts.

You can be damn sure this landlord wouldn't do it willingly regardless of the legislation !


But like you said - a properly briefed solicitor - one with a lot of experience in this area as opposed to one who has handled a few cases. The experience would mean they would get right to the core within reasonable time and effectively therefore keeping costs down.

Finding one seems a bit difficult. Threshold wouldn't recommend anyone themselves when we asked them if they had anyone they use reguarly. Perhaps we can find a trace of who is reguarly representing Threshold through some documents online.......the hunt continues....

Wondering about possibly using the Small Claims Court to get the money back? You do not need a solicitor. Too much risk in taking it out of the rent with the landlord you have. Even possible to make a claim before attempting the work. You have after all the Council documentation as proof.Get estimates from reputable tradesmen..I admire you in one way but so much stress and work.

Graces7

MarkAnthony wrote: »

To pick up on this, much like an unfair dismissal claim I'd be very dubious about every finding someone else to take me on. Not fair, not right but a practical reality.



Not really but you are, of course, wise to play it safe. As for documenting what you've done you'll need to be doing that anyway if this 'goes legal'.



Any interaction with the legal process, not matter how experienced the lawyers used, is going to be a lengthy and expensive process. One IIRC you are barred from engaging in until the PRTB have been engaged. I'm open to correction on this but I think what you'd have to do is engage with the PRTB, appeal to the PRTB (both of which you cannot recover legal costs for) and then judicially review the decision of the PRTB.

Again I'm very shaky here but I think that's a matter for the High Court and will probably mean engaging a couple of barristers if you're looking for experienced counsel in this matter. The fact is if I am right on the procedure (which I could be wrong) there isn't going to be anyone experienced in similar cases as no one would take one. Of course you'll have no issue finding barristers experienced in JR cases.

You can probably disregard most of that other than to ask your solicitor what the legal process is in relation to this. If I'm wrong you can have a little chuckle at my expense with your solicitor. If I'm right make sure he/she explains the cost implications fully.

Small Claims Court; E25 cost.. see my other post. LL will have to attend by the way. You are highly literate and articulate and confident. Have a look at their web site, It was made for claims like this. Have done this and enjoyed it hugely!

Graces7

macyard wrote: »

Are they all essential or are some frivolous, he might have no money, rent cover just mortage and cannot do all the repairs and if you pushed something frivolous it can escalate quickly.

Ask maybe to fix the few very essentials you agree to move out in 2 months if he gives a good reference .

Well tough. he is not a charity case and his financial problems are not the fault of the tenant. Cannot believe your last para! The Council report tells the real story

MouseTail

Graces7 wrote: »

Small Claims Court; E25 cost.. see my other post. LL will have to attend by the way. You are highly literate and articulate and confident. Have a look at their web site, It was made for claims like this. Have done this and enjoyed it hugely!

Small claims court cannot be used for LL tenant disputes, that is the function of the PRTB, who cannot be circumvented.

B00MSTICK

Have a look at this thread - see how long it took the unfortunate OP and what they ended up with.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057150001

Ask yourself is it worth the hassle for you to go to the PRTB with your issue considering you'll be out of the place at the end of the year?
Add in some solicitors fees (if you're determined to go through with it) and you'll see even less of a return.

I'm not saying your case is the same or will end up in the same way but to me it seems like an arduous process and if the LL is as stubborn as he sounds he won't comply with the PRTB ruling anyway.

I know you want to stand up to him and he's 100% in the wrong but I'd be inclined to chalk it up to experience and move on.

Drone808

MouseTail wrote: »

Small claims court cannot be used for LL tenant disputes, that is the function of the PRTB, who cannot be circumvented.

Once PRTB make.judgement, and landlord ignores, small claims is next step yeah ?

Drone808

To be clear about solicitors.fees - this is not a.case where we are looking to.go through a solicitor. We wish to solicit one as a consultant of sorts. No interest in spending money for.something I fan do myself with the right advice.

Seanachai

Drone808 wrote: »

Many are essentials - some are annoying inconvieniences which cause daily hassel. No mortgate - owned outright. Claiming no money. Except the 10k a year we pay for starters, and then theres the other tenants.......

We asked for the essentials and proposed an agreement exactly like that - good reference enables us to move out quicker so will you give us one. Landlord said that they couldn't in "good conscience" give us a good reference and pass us "problem tenants" on to some other landlord after we stuck it to them in writing. There are no other grounds whatsoever. Clearly the spite for us standing up to them clouded their ability to see they could have actually helped us go quicker which is their desired result. We then retreated again.

So as it stands, no reference. And a guaranteed bad one if we are asked to give phone number by new landlord/agent.

With the sparse number of properties out there, we are high risk for finding a suitable one eventually, and loosing it on these grounds.

The LL is deflecting the issues back onto you, making out that you are the problem, this person may be 'gaslighting' you and it's probably draining your energy daily. I respect your taking a stand as they sound like an obstinate, unreasonable sod whoever they are. But I agree with the other posters in the sense that it's not worth it if it starts to drag you down, but only you can make that judgement.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in.../are-you-being-gaslighted

Graces7

MouseTail wrote: »

Small claims court cannot be used for LL tenant disputes, that is the function of the PRTB, who cannot be circumvented.

I am not talking re a landlord tenant dispute but about repairs urgently needed. There is a huge difference legally.

Graces7

Drone808 wrote: »

Once PRTB make.judgement, and landlord ignores, small claims is next step yeah ?

Please look at the Small Claims Court site....cannot get the link up but google.. I would do it now; get estimates for the needed repairs, ie the points the council listed. Send him the estimates and a note that you intend to take the claim to Small Claims. A lot will depend on your wording. That the council have stated that the house is not up to standard and repairs are urgently needed and ll has refused to get them done... get the estimates first and send them to him. Small Claim registrar will decide if they can handle the case anyway. They are very good indeed

hfallada

Drone808 wrote: »

To be clear about solicitors.fees - this is not a.case where we are looking to.go through a solicitor. We wish to solicit one as a consultant of sorts. No interest in spending money for.something I fan do myself with the right advice.

Im sorry but the way you are going about is going to result in you have no reference. If you dont have a reference, very few LLs are going to let you a house in this market. Even if you get repairs, I imagine he will put up the rent if you are due a rent increase.

My parents are LLs and so are most of their friends. I know from listening to them, when a tenant carries on like you are talking about PRTB, the local council. You piss them off and they will ignore your calls. They council will inspect to see that the repairs and minimum repairs have been carried out. The LL will get a fine if its hasnt been carried out

Graces7

Drone808 wrote: »

To be clear about solicitors.fees - this is not a.case where we are looking to.go through a solicitor. We wish to solicit one as a consultant of sorts. No interest in spending money for.something I fan do myself with the right advice.

Grand and great but sometimes you need to threaten a big stick... I dont think solicitors will act in the way you want them to sadly. I am deep in helping someone with a huge dispute and yes it can be a drain but the alternatives do not bear thinking about.

Drone808

hfallada wrote: »

Im sorry but the way you are going about is going to result in you have no reference. If you dont have a reference, very few LLs are going to let you a house in thist

As said multiple.times above those ships.have long since sailed.

Our critical mistake was standing up for ourselves full stop.

Thankfully we will likely be homeless as a result of it according to some.

Don't Worry - i have plenty of positive energy that I'm putting into solutions. I'm more aware of our situation than anyone else on this thread l.

Keeping the cool though - it's not.that difficult until people start to point.out how screwed you are with no value added whatsoever.

But I will giggle about that as well. ........ !!!!!!

Lol.



Any value or solutions people ?!

Graces7

hfallada wrote: »

Im sorry but the way you are going about is going to result in you have no reference. If you dont have a reference, very few LLs are going to let you a house in this market. Even if you get repairs, I imagine he will put up the rent if you are due a rent increase.

My parents are LLs and so are most of their friends. I know from listening to them, when a tenant carries on like you are talking about PRTB, the local council. You piss them off and they will ignore your calls. They council will inspect to see that the repairs and minimum repairs have been carried out. The LL will get a fine if its hasnt been carried out

So asking for basic standards is as you so quaintly put it " p**** them off"? Only in Ireland. Dreadful. And your family and friends think it i OK to take money for substandard life? NB I have never been asked for a reference in eight letting situations and I need rent Allowance so hopefully the picture is not a bad as you paint

Graces7

Drone808 wrote: »

As said multiple.times above those ships.have long since sailed.

Our critical mistake was standing up for ourselves full stop.

Thankfully we will likely be homeless as a result of it according to some.

Don't Worry - i have plenty of positive energy that I'm putting into solutions. I'm more aware of our situation than anyone else on this thread l.

Keeping the cool though - it's not.that difficult until people start to point.out how screwed you are with no value added whatsoever.

But I will giggle about that as well. ........ !!!!!!

Lol.



Any value or solutions people ?!

Do you really think it is a mistake? I am the same as you on this and could not live with myself if I did not stand up for myself. But do start searching for a new home.. you say you are rural which may be easier re references etc.. dont give in on this!

macyard

Graces7 wrote: »

Well tough. he is not a charity case and his financial problems are not the fault of the tenant. Cannot believe your last para! The Council report tells the real story

I meant some of the demands might be unnecessary like painting some rooms or the outside, they are non essential, I get from the way op is talking it's got very vindictive so some frivolous demands might be in there

Graces7

macyard wrote: »

I meant some of the demands might be unnecessary like painting some rooms or the outside, they are non essential, I get from the way op is talking it's got very vindictive so some frivolous demands might be in there

Sorry. I lost my reply... I meant he needs to go by the Council list of repairs needed to bring the place to standard. Yes things can get nasty so all the more reason to adhere to third party official judgements which he has. And to stay outwardly calm.

macyard

Graces7 wrote: »

Sorry. I lost my reply... I meant he needs to go by the Council list of repairs needed to bring the place to standard. Yes things can get nasty so all the more reason to adhere to third party official judgements which he has. And to stay outwardly calm.

That's why I say get essentials done and agree to move in 2 months for a good reference seemed like a good idea, forget about stuff that you might want like painting as it could be expensive.

Op before it kicked off the snag list of 15 things how many where items the council say need to be put right about and how many where just something you wanted done.


I have seen Tennants want the house painted or a new couch and when they can't get them they get vindictive and it goes out of hand.

Pretty much every house will have some sort of thing that might not meet the council's code if you look hard enough and I get the impression they kicked this off over something minor as I cannot see why the LL will not give them and reference to get them gone quick unless he really had a moral reason no to pass them on, he wants them out asap but at is slowing it down, why would he do that?

Drone808

macyard wrote: »

That's why I say get essentials done and agree to move in 2 months for a good reference seemed like a good idea, forget about stuff that you might want like painting as it could be expensive.

Op before it kicked off the snag list of 15 things how many where items the council say need to be put right about and how many where just something you wanted done.


I have seen Tennants want the house painted or a new couch and when they can't get them they get vindictive and it goes out of hand.

Pretty much every house will have some sort of thing that might not meet the council's code if you look hard enough and I get the impression they kicked this off over something minor as I cannot see why the LL will not give them and reference to get them gone quick unless he really had a moral reason no to pass them on, he wants them out asap but at is slowing it down, why would he do that?

Well about 7 or 8 of those issues had been hanging around on the list - non minimum standards aren't the likes of painting - we actually painted the place top to bottom as we moved in - took us 4 days. And yes - we threw the book at the landlord when we realised what was actually going on and that they didn't care at all for our welfare - only the money.

There is no moral reason - it's blind pride, defensiveness and stubbornness rolled into one. Landlord appears to have genuinely convinced themself that they have done everything in their power to accommodate and resolve - this is of course a complete delusion.

Thus the no reference situation - we are apparently the problem, which diverts the attention away from landlords obligations so the above mental construct can stay safely in place and landlords ego remains intact. Landlord can move on safe in knowledge they are a lovely person and it is the others that are horrible.

Meanwhile, we need to look after ourselves......

Graces7

Drone808 wrote: »

Well about 7 or 8 of those issues had been hanging around on the list - non minimum standards aren't the likes of painting - we actually painted the place top to bottom as we moved in - took us 4 days. And yes - we threw the book at the landlord when we realised what was actually going on and that they didn't care at all for our welfare - only the money.

There is no moral reason - it's blind pride, defensiveness and stubbornness rolled into one. Landlord appears to have genuinely convinced themself that they have done everything in their power to accommodate and resolve - this is of course a complete delusion.

Thus the no reference situation - we are apparently the problem, which diverts the attention away from landlords obligations so the above mental construct can stay safely in place and landlords ego remains intact. Landlord can move on safe in knowledge they are a lovely person and it is the others that are horrible.

Meanwhile, we need to look after ourselves......

An accurate summing up. He may not of course understand this as you do. It has taken me 8 landlords to get the setting right from the start..

Drone808

Graces7 wrote: »

So asking for basic standards is as you so quaintly put it " p**** them off"? Only in Ireland. Dreadful. And your family and friends think it i OK to take money for substandard life? NB I have never been asked for a reference in eight letting situations and I need rent Allowance so hopefully the picture is not a bad as you paint

It's all a bit Dicken's for sure :-D Shocking. Might need to get Joe Duffy on board. ........jaaaaaaayyyysus !

clk1990

hfallada wrote: »

Im sorry but the way you are going about is going to result in you have no reference. If you dont have a reference, very few LLs are going to let you a house in this market. Even if you get repairs, I imagine he will put up the rent if you are due a rent increase.

My parents are LLs and so are most of their friends. I know from listening to them, when a tenant carries on like you are talking about PRTB, the local council. You piss them off and they will ignore your calls. They council will inspect to see that the repairs and minimum repairs have been carried out. The LL will get a fine if its hasnt been carried out

Contacting landlord regarding repairs = No reference/pissing them of/rent increase.....

Wow.....

Landlords sound like lovely people.

Sue the guy for wanting to live in a property that meets the minimum standard!

Go the PRTB route..... that's what I'm doing..... even if it pisses off my landlord! ;-)

Drone808

clk1990 wrote: »

Contacting landlord regarding repairs = No reference/pissing them of/rent increase.....

Wow.....

Landlords sound like lovely people.

Sue the guy for wanting to live in a property that meets the minimum standard!

Go the PRTB route..... that's what I'm doing..... even if it pisses off my landlord! ;-)

Yeah - funny auld world so it is in backwards land.

The PRTB is an inevitability at this point - piss in landlord off doesnt concern me since i realised that simply asking for repairs already pissed them off.

Have advised now that since no repairs are forthcoming will be soliciting the repairs ourselves and presenting receipts as per the legislation. There's only one route that process goes...

Baby01032012

Drone808 wrote: »

Yeah - funny auld world so it is in backwards land.

The PRTB is an inevitability at this point - piss in landlord off doesnt concern me since i realised that simply asking for repairs already pissed them off.

Have advised now that since no repairs are forthcoming will be soliciting the repairs ourselves and presenting receipts as per the legislation. There's only one route that process goes...

However word of warning, if soliciting repairs yourself do not withhold repairs from rent as that would be illegal.

Graces7

I am reminded is situations like this that crop up so often of the young Liverpool lassie many years ago on TV. Her twin brother had died in police custody in suspicious circumstances and she was pushing for appeal and investigations one after the other. She knew she would never get anywhere but said, " I will be their haemorroids." Always I remember that in such cases...

Drone808

Baby01032012 wrote: »

However word of warning, if soliciting repairs yourself do not withhold repairs from rent as that would be illegal.

I know - I've said that multiple times above already :-)