Water Pump settings !!!

karltimber

Hi,

as my other posts have stated, just finishing installing a rainwater harvesting system. more on that to follow.

So, I have a Watermill single 3bar automatic pump.
When a garden tap is turned on, pump kicks in and water is pumped.

But when the toilet is flushed, it may (after 10/20/30secs or not at all) kick in.
ie - flow is not heavy enough to kick off the pump.

Question - what operates these pumps. Opened mine today, and I thought it worked on a pressure valve but it looks like an alarm reed valve, that possibly kicks in on vibrations !! not sure.
And what are these other electrical connections for that valve -- N H F S ???

can't find any info on this setup at all.
pics attached.

Thx

corkgsxr

There normally a rising float switch

karltimber

corkgsxr wrote: »

There normally a rising float switch

looks like water doesn't go near this "switch" - like a reed valve in a small glass tube. !

Calahonda52

Guessing here:
Second pic says Shower pump, min static head 2.0m, am assuming its a positive head pump so its a flow switch that clicks in

karltimber

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Guessing here:
Second pic says Shower pump, min static head 2.0m, am assuming its a positive head pump so its a flow switch that clicks in

will remove the "switch" fri and take a pic.
it is a pos head pump alright.

Calahonda52

karltimber wrote: »

will remove the "switch" fri and take a pic.
it is a pos head pump alright.

It is getting enough head?
Have u posted the project description anywhere?
Where is the pump relative to the storage tank height wise?
Whats the height differential between toilet and pump?
Are u pumping from collection to header in attic and then using this pump... still guessing here

karltimber

Calahonda52 wrote: »

It is getting enough head?
Have u posted the project description anywhere?
Where is the pump relative to the storage tank height wise?
Whats the height differential between toilet and pump?
Are u pumping from collection to header in attic and then using this pump... still guessing here

Not posted yet.
pump is level with a 2000 Liter tank so enough pressure there.
Toilet is slightly lower about 30m away. An outside tap 25m away kicks off the pump.
Me thinks the flow rate from the toilet is not enough to kick off the pump. Whereas the tap does.
Hence looking at the internals of the pump to make it more sensitive.

Any idead on those other letters ?

corkgsxr

karltimber wrote: »

looks like water doesn't go near this "switch" - like a reed valve in a small glass tube. !

It's a float switch that signals the reed switch.

One side is wet, the reed switch is dry.

karltimber

corkgsxr wrote: »

It's a float switch that signals the reed switch.

One side is wet, the reed switch is dry.

So gets activated by flow rate.
hence tap kicks off pump and cistern doesn't.
Does the flow lift a small magnet up to the reed ?

Any way to make it more sensitive.

corkgsxr

karltimber wrote: »

So gets activated by flow rate.
hence tap kicks off pump and cistern doesn't.
Does the flow lift a small magnet up to the reed ?

Any way to make it more sensitive.

Yep float goes up, reed senses it and activates the pump.

More sensitive nope not that I know

karltimber

corkgsxr wrote: »

Yep float goes up, reed senses it and activates the pump.

More sensitive nope not that I know

Might send a note to grundfus who took over watermill and see if they know what those letters are for
Thx

Calahonda52

karltimber wrote: »

Not posted yet.
pump is level with a 2000 Liter tank so enough pressure there.
Toilet is slightly lower about 30m away. An outside tap 25m away kicks off the pump.
Me thinks the flow rate from the toilet is not enough to kick off the pump. Whereas the tap does.
Hence looking at the internals of the pump to make it more sensitive.

Any idead on those other letters ?

No ideas re lettering
Cant find it on web.

My understanding of a 2m static head requirement is that the bottom of pump needs to be 2m lower than top surface of water.

I agree re the reduced flow rate in toilet, not helped by 30m of pipe unless its big enough.
You need enough mass flow to operate the flow switch
http://www.showerpumpselector.co.uk/pump-location/

karltimber

One note.
The reed was attached to a small piece of plastic with 3 sawtooth edges on one side.
And corresponding sawtooth to align to and beibf able to move it up or down.

I wonder if that's a way to bring the reed closer and hence more sensitive ...

Might try that frI morning.

Calahonda52

The additional elec points on the pcb may relate to a push button air switch option which basically bypasses the flow switch and runs the pump. Its a push button air switch as they are usually fitted inside showers.
Maybe try the circuits with a multimeter to see can u do this

K.Flyer

The terminals marked N H on the pcb are for a negative head conversion.
As Calahonda says, you can buy a conversion kit which incorporates a start button Like This .
Personally I would just convert it myself using an in line non return valve, a small pressure vessel and a pressure switch.

mallowgarry

Hello, new-ish to boards.ie....similar query, not sure if I should open a new thread? Forgive me if I'm intruding.....

Have a similar query.....

Working on a farm with a rainwater recycling system. Large tank full of rainwater is connected to a Steelpumps pump, similar to one in this range, but an older model:

steelpumps dot co dot uk /p-series/

(new-ish user and I can't post links)

Rainwater tank feeds the pump, and it cuts in when a valve in the milking parlour is turned on (i.e. pressure drops), when the valve is closed the pump cuts out after a few seconds. A few weeks ago, the pump was repeatedly cutting out after a few seconds, so we chanced ordering a replacement pressure switch for it (30 Euro as opposed to 500 Euro for a new pump).

The pressure switch has an adjuster on it, so when we turn it down too far, the pump won't cut it. When we turn it up to the point where it cuts in, the pump runs for a few seconds, cuts out, then cuts in again. It's not running continually like it used to and it's not doing the motor any good......

It is serving our purpose in that when the valve is opened, we get water, when the valve is closed, it cuts out. If we turn up the setting on the pressure switch, the pump won't cut in for us.

There is a 25? litre pressure vessel linked to the pipeline a few feet beyond the pump. The pressure in this was 15 PSI. My understanding is that this vessel controls the cutting in/out interval......is 15PSI a very low pressure? I increased it to 30PSI, with no noticeable effect on the interval.

I guess the pump is a bit small for the volumes of water we are shifting, but it used to work away grand in the background. The people that installed it disappeared in the recession and we are getting very conflicting (and expensive) advice from various people.

Anyone any suggestions on what I should be tinkering with, or the air pressure that should be in the pressure vessel?

karltimber

so,

may have a solution to the problem.

I opened up the pump to understand exactly what way the water was triggering the pump.
And it was indeed a float and reed. Float on the wet side and reed on the dry side.
Connected a voltmeter to the two spades of the reed, and with a small piece of double-sided tape stuck a pencil (Flat top) to the top of the float.
10mm lift is where the float activates the reed. And it looks like there are 3 settings. There are saw-tooth holding teeth on the left side and the reed can be moved 1 way up or down. 5mm-10mm-15mm activation. It was set at 10mm. Now moved to 5mm.

as an added extra I stuck a small piece of rubber to the top of the float to give it that extra lift when a smaller amount of water goes over it. Pics attached.
Haven't test this yet but will do on thursday.

K

karltimber

Solved...

as above, connected pump to Raintank supply today, and both the toilet and wash-machine start the pump.
so both the lower trigger and the rubber on the float worked well.

Thanks for the inputs.

will be posting my rainwater project shortly.

K