Groped by male work colleague at work party

amdublin

Btw, I am wondering why you would get into a taxi (others there or not) with someone who made you feel so uncomfortable early on in the night by squeezing your bum.

I am NOT saying it is your fault, but if this was me the last thing I'd be doing is getting into a taxi with a fella I had a gut feeling about.

DukeOfTheSharp

If you feel this way, there's a reason and you need to address it. I just hope that the conversation you're going to have is with HR, not with the guy in question. All the best, stay safe!

amdublin

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

If you feel this way, there's a reason and you need to address it. I just hope that the conversation you're going to have is with HR, not with the guy in question. All the best, stay safe!

Obviously we are all entitled to our opinion but I think going to HR on this (as a first recourse) is way way ott.

As a grown adult I would be dealing with this myself.

I'd imagine HR's first question will be, have you told X yet yourself that his behaviour is unacceptable?

Picture it:
OP - no I want your assistance on doing so (which is her perogative)
HR call your man into a meeting with the OP
HR - x when you squeezed y's behind at the christmas party this was unacceptable. When you got a taxi with her and "forgot" to tell the driver to stop this was unacceptable. Your behaviour is making y feel comfortable do not do it again.

Does this not seem an ott way of dealing with someone when the op can deal with this herself.

HR are not there the way a teacher is for ten year olds.

DukeOfTheSharp

amdublin wrote: »

Obviously we are all entitled to our opinion but I think going to HR on this (as a first recourse) is way way ott.

As a grown adult I would be dealing with this myself.

I'd imagine HR's first question will be, have you told X yet yourself that his behaviour is unacceptable?

Picture it:
OP - no I want your assistance on doing so (which is her perogative)
HR call your man into a meeting with the OP
HR - x when you squeezed y's behind at the christmas party this was unacceptable. When you got a taxi with her and "forgot" to tell the driver to stop this was unacceptable. Your behaviour is making y feel comfortable do not do it again.

Does this not seem an ott way of dealing with someone when the op can deal with this herself.

HR are not there the way a teacher is for ten year olds.

I'm sorry...but what? You do realise HR do more than reprimand, they keep a file and essentially in this case, whoever gets to them first will be the opener here. Imagine if the OP confronts him, he feels like her actions might in some way reflect negatively on him and he then goes to HR himself to file a complaint. Not only is the OP now in the sights of HR for something that happened to her, the chap seems pretty close to a manipulative, vindictive individual with no sense of appropriate work/social interaction.

A guy like this would be the first through the door to HR to complain about the OPs treatment of him. Dealing with this one-on-one, given the situation, is not the best course of action. Making sure the person did the harassing is on file as such is the best course of action, because god forbid anyone did suffer a more severe form of harassment/assault as a result of his actions, the OP's complaint might be the difference between this guy getting away with a slap on the wrist, or more serious action being taken. The system is there not only to reprimand those who do wrong in the workplace, it's also there to keep tabs on them. The mature, adult decision would be to avoid contact with him until a third, official party is involved and have his name down for future reference. If there's one thing he can't manipulate, it's an official complaint. Worst case, it stops him from acting like he did, best case, if he does it again there'll be more severe reprimands.

Tilly

Janblues1001 wrote: »

Was he chancing his luck again for the second time in an hour, you might ask? All very foolish and innocent on his part. I suppose I don't know. But I had a strong instinct that, if I had been banana's drunk that night he wouldn't have just helped me to my door like a friend would do. He suspect he would have done more than just grope me. I cannot just ignore that and just say to myself, "ah yeah the poor fool just made a silly drunken mistake. Let it go...".
But yes, a conversation will be on the cards soon.

thanks again.

He would have done more than grope you? You're implying now that this guy could rape you all because he slapped your arse? You are oozing drama to me.

You need to seriously move on as the thoughts going on in your head towards him are quite dangerous tbh.

LegacyUser

Not for a second would I suggest rape for heaven's sake!!!
All I'm saying is his perviness wouldn't have stopped.
Of course I was dumb for getting into a taxi!!!(there were others but the driver wouldn't go my direction first.)
I think he's was desperate, sad, foolish, and very pervy. But nothing more sinister.
Gut instinct says he'd do these things again, and quite frankly I think he's a twat who I am best staying clear of.

amdublin

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

I'm sorry...but what? You do realise HR do more than reprimand, they keep a file and essentially in this case, whoever gets to them first will be the opener here. Imagine if the OP confronts him, he feels like her actions might in some way reflect negatively on him and he then goes to HR himself to file a complaint. Not only is the OP now in the sights of HR for something that happened to her, the chap seems pretty close to a manipulative, vindictive individual with no sense of appropriate work/social interaction.

A guy like this would be the first through the door to HR to complain about the OPs treatment of him. Dealing with this one-on-one, given the situation, is not the best course of action. Making sure the person did the harassing is on file as such is the best course of action, because god forbid anyone did suffer a more severe form of harassment/assault as a result of his actions, the OP's complaint might be the difference between this guy getting away with a slap on the wrist, or more serious action being taken. The system is there not only to reprimand those who do wrong in the workplace, it's also there to keep tabs on them. The mature, adult decision would be to avoid contact with him until a third, official party is involved and have his name down for future reference. If there's one thing he can't manipulate, it's an official complaint. Worst case, it stops him from acting like he did, best case, if he does it again there'll be more severe reprimands.

Yes of course HR keep a file. But obviously there is more too it than "first to open the file" is the victim/is in the right. An investigation by HR is required.

I think this lady needs to talk to this man and tell him his actions and attentions are unwanted.
IF she presents this to him that she see this as a sexual assault, yes I think there is a possibility he will go to HR, and frankly I wouldn't blame him.

He tried his luck (in a yocky sleazy way) and she is not interested in him. She needs to tell him she is not interested and he is not to try anything again.
IF his attraction to her was requited, and she did fancy him, as odd as it seems, this bum squeeze could have been the start of a love affair. Stranger things have happened on office party nights out!

OP I think Tilly gives good advice about your thoughts on the taxi ride home. I am still very perturbed that you would put yourself in a position that you were in a taxi with someone who made you feel so uncomfortable. For your own sake I think you need to be more wise about your choices in future. If you have a gut feeling about someone then follow it and get a taxi on your own.

LegacyUser

Of course it was stupid getting in a taxi. There were others in it, but the driver wouldn't go my way first, so I was left it with him for a few minutes.
Since that night I have kept my distance and chosen to not be alone with him, either at work or elsewhere.

and Please!!!! Not for a second am I implying rape for heaven's sake!!!!
I'm merely trying mull it over in my head to figure out if the groping was foolish drunkenness, or was it something a bit more creepy.... (Drunken foolishness would deserve a second chance, whereas if it's the lather then he deserves to be dropped as a friend).
Hypothetically only, if I was intoxicated, would he be the gent and look after me to make sure I got home safely? No, I think he's the type who would have taken advantage, but that is not so say rape!

At the end of the day I do not really know him, and to say that I feel uncomfortable now is not drama in my opinion, I think it's me just protecting myself and wanting to choose nice trusting friends to hang around with. and I do not think my thoughts or feelings of discomfort are "dangerous" as the previous poster put it.

mada82

I have to say I agree with all the people saying you are over reacting based on your latest post.

Groping someone's arse, while inappropriate, is probably common place between single people at drunken nights out.

You should have put him straight on the spot. Since you haven't done that it's an awkward one to bring up now.

strandroad

You've been feeling uncomfortable around him for a long time, trust your instinct and drop him, no second chances.

Don't talk to him, he knows full well what he did, he's not stupid. If you don't want to escalate send an email to yourself to record the incident in case he was starting anything again or was making it difficult for you at work.

amdublin

Have nothing more to do with him. If he asks why, explain how groping your behind and staying in the taxi longer than he should have made you feel uncomfortable.

I understand you are feeling uncomfortable but I think you are making something bigger than it is. Single people try it on with single people. You don't want him to try it on with you, that is fine. Avoid him in future.

Best of luck.

Sleepless and Manic

amdublin wrote: »

Yes of course HR keep a file. But obviously there is more too it than "first to open the file" is the victim/is in the right. An investigation by HR is required.

Exactly.

And one of Human Resources' most important roles is to protect the company from any liability.

In fact in a lot of cases you could say that is their primary role, you may think they're there for you but thats not always true.

Chucky the tree

janblues1001 wrote: »

Not for a second would I suggest rape for heaven's sake!!!
All I'm saying is his perviness wouldn't have stopped.
Of course I was dumb for getting into a taxi!!!(there were others but the driver wouldn't go my direction first.)
I think he's was desperate, sad, foolish, and very pervy. But nothing more sinister.
Gut instinct says he'd do these things again, and quite frankly I think he's a twat who I am best staying clear of.

I'd say most guys who grope a girl and would do it again when the girl doesn't tell him not to.

bee06

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'd say most guys who grope a girl and would do it again when the girl doesn't tell him not to.

I agree, if he's as pervy as you say he's probably thinking "well she hasn't told me to feck off so maybe she's interested and just shy. Sure, I'll try my luck again the next night and see what happens"

You need to be very clear with him that his behaviour is making you uncomfortable and you're not interested.

LegacyUser

As a manager myself and a male I have to give you the following advice

1) The issue is within the remit of the company, if the office party had ended and you all went back to a private residence and it happened there then it would still be the company's responsibility.

2) Do NOT talk to him about this, you need to go to HR immediately

3) His behaviour is unacceptable, you were groped, you did not consent to this. For anyone unaware of boundaries you do not grab a woman's bum if you are not in a relationship with them and even if you are in a relationship with them some women may find it inappropriate in public.

4) Don't be afraid of being seen as someone making a big deal about nothing, what happened to you is unacceptable in any workplace. Consent is the key issue here, did you consent to this and clearly you did not.

5) You have to take this to HR, do not try to manage this yourself. This man is a sh**stirrer as you already explained....once you give him the cold shoulder you'll become a target of his gossip. Follow the procedure which is available in all established companies, go to HR and file a complaint.

amdublin

Why can she not handle this herself?

You have not been clear why she must get HR involvement on this??

If this happened at a party organised by a friend (not work), would you be saying get your friend involved/get the guards involved.

My advice stands. Tell this man is actions/attentions are unwanted.

And record the sequence of events in an email to yourself.

dellas1979

amdublin wrote: »

If this happened at a party organised by a friend (not work), would you be saying get your friend involved/get the guards involved.

You are forgetting, he is not her friend. He is her colleague. Whether you realise this (or acknowledge this) all bets are off when something like this happens with a colleague.

amdublin wrote: »

My advice stands. Tell this man is actions/attentions are unwanted.

No way jose. This can mis-construed as her bullying him. She (nor he) is above the laws that govern a work place, and how things should be handled. It would show poor judgement to me for someone to "confront" or place blame on a colleague, all of your own doing (i.e., emailing them a "dont touch me again email" or "having a dont touch me chat" in the kitchen.

amdublin wrote: »

And record the sequence of events in an email to yourself.

Again, not a smart move. If she does this, and it all goes arse ways, HR will actually frown on this, that she (wrongly) tried to sort this out herself. Its classic psychometric question when even interviewing someone "if you had a problem in work/had a serious problem with a colleague, what would you do?". Do people just answer "go to manager/HR" just to get the job? And when faced with an actual scenario, then do the wrong thing?

amdublin

dellas1979 wrote: »

Again, not a smart move. If she does this, and it all goes arse ways, HR will actually frown on this, that she (wrongly) tried to sort this out herself. Its classic psychometric question when even interviewing someone "if you had a problem in work/had a serious problem with a colleague, what would you do?". Do people just answer "go to manager/HR" just to get the job? And when faced with an actual scenario, then do the wrong thing?

The last person I'd be hiring for the job is someone who runs to HR/manager for this kind of scenario.

She is a single person. He is a single person. He (inappropriately) tried it on with her at the christmas party.

Why in god's name would she go to HR about this???? Instead of sorting it out like an adult herself???

dellas1979

amdublin wrote: »

I'd imagine HR's first question will be, have you told X yet yourself that his behaviour is unacceptable?

Im afraid your imaginations are wrong and no such questions are asked. And you realise you are actually putting people off who may have genuine issue to report.

I think you are looking at this from your own point of view (and imaginations) because you might see this behaviour as acceptable. And thats fair enough.

But in black and white, whether you skirt around your idea of acceptable, in a work place (whether you think so or not) this behaviour is not tolerated.

I didnt make up the black and white stuff. I am neither below it or above it. Neither are you. And neither is anyone in a working environment.

dellas1979

amdublin wrote: »

The last person I'd be hiring for the job is someone who runs to HR/manager for this kind of scenario.

But, you dont seem to know anything at all about HR process to deal with this type of scenario.

Yes, I most certainly would hire someone who would report inappropriate behaviour.

You keep ignoring the big elephant in the room. Doesnt matter who is single (so, its ok for her to put up with this cause she is single?).

They are colleagues.

You are very badly giving out incorrect information here (not just an opinion), and thats what worries me (for the OP and anyone else reading this with a similar issue).

Edit: If you are on a night out with your colleagues...office party or something...and you inappropriately touch a colleague, you do realise (whether the excuses are "I fancied her/him", "I was drunk", "It was only a bit of craic"), you do realise in law that that colleague can report you.

strandroad

amdublin wrote: »

The last person I'd be hiring for the job is someone who runs to HR/manager for this kind of scenario.

She is a single person. He is a single person. He (inappropriately) tried it on with her at the christmas party.

Why in god's name would she go to HR about this???? Instead of sorting it out like an adult herself???

So you'd rather have a bunch of people who grope one another or give out about groping? And this is professional how?

And what does their marital status have to do with it? Would she be justified in reporting it if she was married but not when she's single?

amdublin

dellas1979 wrote: »

Im afraid your imaginations are wrong and no such questions are asked. And you realise you are actually putting people off who may have genuine issue to report.

I think you are looking at this from your own point of view (and imaginations) because you might see this behaviour as acceptable. And thats fair enough.

But in black and white, whether you skirt around your idea of acceptable, in a work place (whether you think so or not) this behaviour is not tolerated.

I didnt make up the black and white stuff. I am neither below it or above it. Neither are you. And neither is anyone in a working environment.

I certainly do not see this behaviour as acceptable. And I have said it is not acceptable multiple times in this thread.

I think this lady needs to address this with him and tell him his behaviour is unacceptable.

amdublin

mhge wrote: »

So you'd rather have a bunch of people who grope one another or give out about groping? And this is professional how?

And what does their marital status have to do with it? Would she be justified in reporting it if she was married but not when she's single?

No, I'd rather have a bunch of people who act like adults and can communicate with each other about what is acceptable and what is not, without assistance from HR.

I mention both their status to demonstrate the picture that this was someone who fancied someone, acting it out on a night out. This is what happens in life.

And when this happens the other party makes the other party know that he or she is not interested and their behaviour is unacceptable and not to happen againg.

dellas1979

amdublin wrote: »

I think this lady needs to address this with him and tell him his behaviour is unacceptable.

I dont agree.

And Ive seen people taking such advice, and having it go absolute arse ways (and against them) in a work environment.

Long gone are the days when you just suck it up and "play normal" to make sure HR dont realise there is a problem. In case what? You dont get a promotion? You are a trouble maker? Those days are long gone.

I would advise her to either speak informally to someone in HR (doesnt require a complaint, its more advice), or dont say anything at all, especially to him.

amdublin, am out of this thread now, but for the last time, please stop calling them "just people" etc. They are not just people, they are colleagues. From whatever type of work environment you come from, you just dont seem to get this.

amdublin

dellas1979 wrote: »

I dont agree.

And Ive seen people taking such advice, and having it go absolute arse ways (and against them) in a work environment.

Long gone are the days when you just suck it up and "play normal" to make sure HR dont realise there is a problem. In case what? You dont get a promotion? You are a trouble maker? Those days are long gone.

I would advise her to either speak informally to someone in HR (doesnt require a complaint, its more advice), or dont say anything at all, especially to him.

amdublin, am out of this thread now, but for the last time, please stop calling them "just people" etc. They are not just people, they are colleagues. From whatever type of work environment you come from, you just dont seem to get this.

I think this lady needs to speak with her colleague and explain to him that his behaviour has upset her and is unacceptable and that if it happens again she will be going to HR.

I don't know whether you work in HR or not. If you do you must be very busy if colleagues cannot deal with things like this themselves without your assistance!

I am out of this thread too.

OP - the very best of luck whatever your choose. Dealing with it yourself or going to HR will get the same result imo, so at the end of the day you need to deal with this as best you see fit. Whatever you do I hope this issue is over for you soon.

dellas1979

amdublin wrote: »

If you do you must be very busy if colleagues cannot deal with things like this themselves without your assistance!

LOLs. At least you are calling them colleagues now. HR arent there (or employed) just to push paper around you know. They are there to deal with things like this, in a professional manner, and to give advice and direct appropriately. Its not one iota go to do with someones assertiveness to deal with someone elses bad or inappropriate behaviour.

Good night.

LegacyUser

OP here..

He came over to me today, I was quite cold and distant so he asked what's up. I took him to the corridor to discuss. I asked him if here remembered the night in question, where he inappropriately touched me. He said no. He asked if it was definitely him. I told him I remember it clearly and it was definitely him. He said he was drunk and doesn't remember. I told him that he didn't seem all that drunk to me, but when it comes to it I cannot say exactly how drunk he was. I told him what he did was disgusting. I told him that from now on I'd prefer that we keep out relationship professional only, and asked if he would respect this. He said yes and apologised. That was the end of it.

I tried to read his reaction, to determine if he was genuinely drunk on the night and does not remember the incident, or else, he remembers but is too embarrassed to admit to such a sleazy thing. I wasn't sure. But when it comes to it, I don't care either way, as I feel what he did was horrible and I don't want to be friends with someone like that.
I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders, and I feel happy that I had the confidence to speak to him and get it off my chest.
I think speaking to him was the best course of action for my situation, although I know several people on here suggested HR being the best port of call. I think the issue I had won't be mentioned again, especially not by him, and I see no point in going to HR. I hope I'm not wrong. Surely most managers/HR staff prefer that people deal with work issues themselves at least at first, then look for support from managers/HR if that doesn't resolve it? And that would be how I would answer that question in an interview if how I deal with conflict was ever put to me in a job interview.

amdublin

Janblues1001 wrote: »

I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders, and I feel happy that I had the confidence to speak to him and get it off my chest.

Good for you op. Sounds to me like you handled it with aplomb, and am glad that weight has lifted for you.

skallywag

Janblues1001 wrote: »

Surely most managers/HR staff prefer that people deal with work issues themselves at least at first, then look for support from managers/HR if that doesn't resolve it?

As a team manager myself OP I have to say that you are bang on the money here, and you have certainly done the right thing. Those advising you to head straight to HR were giving very poor advice in my own opinion.

Zen65

dellas1979 wrote: »

No way jose. This can mis-construed as her bullying him. She (nor he) is above the laws that govern a work place, and how things should be handled.

dellas1979 wrote: »

Again, not a smart move. If she does this, and it all goes arse ways, HR will actually frown on this, that she (wrongly) tried to sort this out herself. Its classic psychometric question when even interviewing someone "if you had a problem in work/had a serious problem with a colleague, what would you do?". Do people just answer "go to manager/HR" just to get the job? And when faced with an actual scenario, then do the wrong thing?

Have you ever worked in HR? Have you managed cases such as this? I think advice as radical as this needs to be backed up by stating your credentials (apologies if you already did in another post). The idea that a staff member cannot say that certain actions - like grabbing her bum - are unacceptable is simply ridiculous! The law expects work colleagues to express their discomfort (where such discomfort exists) with such advances.