Calf Prices 2015 *** DISCUSSION THREAD

Dawggone

Sold a batch of hol bulls from 15 to 27 days old.
Av €19.33.

Off to Cheltenham now to fleece the bookies Not!

frazzledhome

stretch film wrote: »

Adlib feeding these guys too?
Are you acidifying the milk.?

Adlib from day 1 no acid. No nutritional scour

joejobrien

frazzledhome wrote: »

Agree on age. See "2" week old calves and they're fit to be skulled. Seller can puff out his chest and talk of the €160 for a fr forgetting the cost. I see guys bringing calves this week will bring some older ones next week and nothing wrong with that. I just bring everything with card and BVD, get rid before they cost anymore

Thats the job;) , out the gate before they cost anymore or increase risk of virus breaking out

Limestone Cowboy

limo_100 wrote: »

did you buy her for a cow or you gona rear her on the bucket??

Ya she's going under a cow.

onyerbikepat

orm0nd wrote: »

serious number of fr bulls hitting the marts this week,

also some very poor quality hex and aax stock , seems when some dairy men have enough cows bulled for replacements they throw any kind of beef breed to mop up , as long as he is able to a mount a cow he'll do

with suckler cow numbers declining , factories will have a field day in a couple of years,

I'd agree with this. Poorer quality weanlings won't be exported. Simple as that. That leaves a glut of cattle in the country and larry & Co. to call the tune.

RightTurnClyde

Met a buddy at the mart on Monday. He was telling me how i should be feeding on the calves to 5-6 weeks. Mine made €70-€105 fresian ( average €78) and €130-€185 AA's, none were older than 11 days. His were 5-6 weeks old on a liscarrol feeder, he reckoned they drank average 7+ litres a day. That's €80 worth of milk. They (Frs) averaged €165. 5 weeks work for nothing.( + housing, bedding, labour and vets) But they looked good!

Farmer Pudsey

stretch film wrote: »

Your consistent with the overpriced fr bull calf argument I'll give you that.

What state do you reckon calves will come off farm this time next year when all theyll make is 50 euro.

Podzol has a client who sees value in paying a better price for a well cared for calf ..

I have not bought calves in 7-8 years. However it cots in the region 300 to carry to 12 months of age along with his initial and that is from 3-4 weeks of age. From there to slaughter and it matters little wheather you kill at 24 months intensive finish or put back to grass and kill at 28-34 months it will cost about another 500 euro to carry to finish. So excluding calf costs it will cost 800 to carry from 3 weeks to finish.

This is not allowing for rental land costs if you rent land. If calves come off dairy farms in poor condition from 10 days to 6 weks of age farmers should not buy such calves but rather leave the dairy farmers with the cost of disposing of them. Drystock is a tight margin business. I am not sure of what Podzol buyers costs are near what I have costed it at

stretch film

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have not bought calves in 7-8 years. However it cots in the region 300 to carry to 12 months of age along with his initial and that is from 3-4 weeks of age. From there to slaughter and it matters little wheather you kill at 24 months intensive finish or put back to grass and kill at 28-34 months it will cost about another 500 euro to carry to finish. So excluding calf costs it will cost 800 to carry from 3 weeks to finish.

This is not allowing for rental land costs if you rent land. If calves come off dairy farms in poor condition from 10 days to 6 weks of age farmers should not buy such calves but rather leave the dairy farmers with the cost of disposing of them. Drystock is a tight margin business. I am not sure of what Podzol buyers costs are near what I have costed it at

My core point is the man calving the cow has no incentive at € 50 .
Bvd and tagging/reg can be sorted in days and the beef man can have our byproduct and take all the cost labour and risk with it . Every drop extra going in the milk tank will soften the "loss".

Farmer Pudsey

stretch film wrote: »

My core point is the man calving the cow has no incentive at € 50 .
Bvd and tagging/reg can be sorted in days and the beef man can have our byproduct and take all the cost labour and risk with it . Every drop extra going in the milk tank will soften the "loss".

Beefmen as you put it do not have to buy them. Bull calves whether Fr or Jex's are the disposal issue of the dairy farmer. The case may arise where bidding in a mart starts at -50 euro for such calves. Bidding need not start at a positive value. Too many beef farmers do not access the risk or cost involved.

If a dairy farmers has tro dispose of such calves to a knackery it will cost him.This has to be factored in as well. Some dairy farmers will have no issue with this other will baulk at it. However as beef farmers we need to make a profit as well. If calves are taken out of the system it helps to prevent a glut two years down the line.

The day may come where dairy farmers have to pay to get rid of poorer quality calves(extreme Ho or Jex's) or have to accept rearing them at cost or a slight loss to 10-20 days. Everything is relative

joejobrien

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

No you are not being rode on Ho lads buying those BB will not leave a bob if finished in Ireland. At present a Friesian that kill 320kgs at under 30 months grading O-3 is making about 1250 max. A 30-36 months Friesian killing 380 kgs grading O=3/4 is making about 1480. No room to pay any more than 50-100 euro for such calves. If you think there is money in finish them yourself.

In 18 months time if stores are expensive and there is a lot of them around Pudsey will be keeping his fist in his pocket until the following spring.

I take your point , but I see FR M yearling yesterday making 550 plus for 12 month old stock.......the same stock that was bought 40/60 euro or less in 2014, and we are not getting not much more today except for the coloured calves.
Now dont tell me they havent made money in 12 months on those calves. I think we are well entitiled to a few quid more considering farmers are paying big money for the beef breeds calves. If they are paying over the odds well.........................it dog eat dog:D

freedominacup

I'm not sure if there are many calves being held on dairy farms atm. A lad who does a few days for us on and off was in Ross on Saturday. He wanted a particular type of calf. Only a few of them there. Calf he bought numbered 900 and something. He reckoned there were still a couple of hundred to go. This was at half four and selling started at 10.30. Whatever calves are being held are more than cancelled out by beef enterprises being scaled back or discontinued on many dairy farms imo. Don't be surprised if the glut never appears. With cow numbers increasing and the extra pressure on systems holding extra calves for a very marginal gain looses it's shine very quickly. Cows and heifer calves can't be neglected in order to mind bull calves.

Sheep breeder

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm not sure if there are many calves being held on dairy farms atm. A lad who does a few days for us on and off was in Ross on Saturday. He wanted a particular type of calf. Only a few of them there. Calf he bought numbered 900 and something. He reckoned there were still a couple of hundred to go. This was at half four and selling started at 10.30. Whatever calves are being held are more than cancelled out by beef enterprises being scaled back or discontinued on many dairy farms imo. Don't be surprised if the glut never appears. With cow numbers increasing and the extra pressure on systems holding extra calves for a very marginal gain looses it's shine very quickly. Cows and heifer calves can't be neglected in order to mind bull calves.

we were in ross on saturday for the first time this year and about five hundred calves, the numbers start with the booked calves first at lower numbers and then they jump to higher numbers, i must check my watch as i thought the sale was well over before 4.30,
but its amazing how people report different trade in the same mart on any given day,

degetme

Any ye guys using an acidifer other than milkshake?

lab man

Where is ross

frazzledhome

lab man wrote: »

Where is ross

New Ross, so good they named it twice

lab man

Dad went to listowel today to buy some calves as we go there every year he said quality has gone down a lot since last yr and the yr before for good black whiteheads came home with none first time in ten years

larrymiller

lab man wrote: »

Where is ross

Be carefull were wild down here

lab man

Sur your TD is livin in ennis for the last week

Farmer Pudsey

joejobrien wrote: »

I take your point , but I see FR M yearling yesterday making 550 plus for 12 month old stock.......the same stock that was bought 40/60 euro or less in 2014, and we are not getting not much more today except for the coloured calves.
Now dont tell me they havent made money in 12 months on those calves. I think we are well entitiled to a few quid more considering farmers are paying big money for the beef breeds calves. If they are paying over the odds well.........................it dog eat dog:D

If you buy and sell at same stage in a year you calculate your costs off difference. Calves this year are making 120ish I think not having being at a mart. Add 300 and they are making about 130/calf less selling costs. Not huge money by any means.

A lad selling a beef breed calf for 750 is paying 300-350 to replace add his 300 costs he is left with 100-150 margin. Any dairy bred calves are over valued too many beef farmers have failed to understand that these are a byproduct of the dairy system. We do not need to reimburse the dairy man for his costs we need to make sure that we have an adequate margin for our business.

freedominacup

lab man wrote: »

Where is ross

On the original Anfield lane.

orm0nd

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Why will they have a field day.When lads stop producing those loss making sucklers there will be 10K less cattle a week for factory to mess with. When there stuck they will take goats. A prominent procurement manager with one of the processors said that British supermarkets are quite happy with O+ grading cattle. It those sucklers killing over 400kgs that usually cause all the problems.

you are forgetting about all the extra dairy stock & their off spring which I was referring to

with the farmer outbidding the exporter for screws of dairy calves .... O+ my hole

at least with the suckler there was some chance of live export

also there will be extra fr cull cows ,

at the end of the day all the factories want, is meat ....the cheaper the better & the feeder takes the hit on the grid

UK have already began sourcing lager numbers elsewhere so don't be too dependent on them .

Farmer Pudsey

orm0nd wrote: »

you are forgetting about all the extra dairy stock & their off spring which I was referring to

with the farmer outbidding the exporter for screws of dairy calves .... O+ my hole

at least with the suckler there was some chance of live export

also there will be extra fr cull cows ,

at the end of the day all the factories want, is meat ....the cheaper the better & the feeder takes the hit on the grid

UK have already began sourcing lager numbers elsewhere so don't be too dependent on them .

Pre dairy expansion there was 1.2 million dairy cows in Ireland, it is estimated taht it will hit 1.5 million and hold there this is equivlent to about 1.2 million calves after you take replacment and calf deaths into account. The lower the suckler numbers goes the less cattle around.

Higher quality cattle are exported sub 400kgs Lw in general or sub 12 months of age. It is suckler cattle that suffer most when prices drop. The suckler farmer requires a weanling to hit over 900 euro to make a small profit at 6-10 months of age.

More dairy calves mean that there price will drop. As expansion slow's more dairy farmers will use beef bred sweeper bulls. This means that friesian calves are more viable to export. The big issue will be to encourage dairy farmers to use good quality AA and HE sweeper bulls that will produce a growthy calf capable of hitting 320+kg at 22 months winter finishing or 360+kgs at 26-30 months of age.

The UK market pays a premium for steer/heifer beef killing 280-330kgs it will take cattle outside this spec but dislikes carcasses above 370 kgs. It also like cattle idealy at FS3 to 4-. If it changes it spec and takes bulls heavier cattle or leaner carcasses it will be unusual.

AP2014

orm0nd wrote: »

you are forgetting about all the extra dairy stock & their off spring which I was referring to

with the farmer outbidding the exporter for screws of dairy calves .... O+ my hole

at least with the suckler there was some chance of live export

also there will be extra fr cull cows ,

at the end of the day all the factories want, is meat ....the cheaper the better & the feeder takes the hit on the grid

UK have already began sourcing lager numbers elsewhere so don't be too dependent on them .

Ya right, two pints and those english lads are on their ear!

dh1985

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Pre dairy expansion there was 1.2 million dairy cows in Ireland, it is estimated taht it will hit 1.5 million and hold there this is equivlent to about 1.2 million calves after you take replacment and calf deaths into account. The lower the suckler numbers goes the less cattle around.

Higher quality cattle are exported sub 400kgs Lw in general or sub 12 months of age. It is suckler cattle that suffer most when prices drop. The suckler farmer requires a weanling to hit over 900 euro to make a small profit at 6-10 months of age.

More dairy calves mean that there price will drop. As expansion slow's more dairy farmers will use beef bred sweeper bulls. This means that friesian calves are more viable to export. The big issue will be to encourage dairy farmers to use good quality AA and HE sweeper bulls that will produce a growthy calf capable of hitting 320+kg at 22 months winter finishing or 360+kgs at 26-30 months of age.

The UK market pays a premium for steer/heifer beef killing 280-330kgs it will take cattle outside this spec but dislikes carcasses above 370 kgs. It also like cattle idealy at FS3 to 4-. If it changes it spec and takes bulls heavier cattle or leaner carcasses it will be unusual.

I think your looking at this from one angle only. If there is less suckler cows it means that the suckler farmer will be looking for some other enterprise. With the most likely avenue been calf to beef. They will be able to raise more calves than previously As they won't have to worry about feeding the cow. Will this not create extra demand for dairy bred calves and therefore extra competition, Leading to the price increasing not reducing. This is not taking into account the lads that breed springer heifers for the suckler industry and the guys that generally finish the sucklers man's weanlings. Both of which will also be looking for an alternative to there current set up. Most suckler guys are part time so dairy is not really an option for the majority. I would have thought that in the longterm the price of calves could go up as these are the people who don't mind overpaying for stock as they don't rely solely on farming for a living but do need to be stock to claim the grants

Farmer Pudsey

dh1985 wrote: »

I think your looking at this from one angle only. If there is less suckler cows it means that the suckler farmer will be looking for some other enterprise. With the most likely avenue been calf to beef. They will be able to raise more calves than previously As they won't have to worry about feeding the cow. Will this not create extra demand for dairy bred calves and therefore extra competition, Leading to the price increasing not reducing. This is not taking into account the lads that breed springer heifers for the suckler industry and the guys that generally finish the sucklers man's weanlings. Both of which will also be looking for an alternative to there current set up. Most suckler guys are part time so dairy is not really an option for the majority. I would have thought that in the longterm the price of calves could go up as these are the people who don't mind overpaying for stock as they don't rely solely on farming for a living but do need to be stock to claim the grants

You have a point however there are many other variables. Most lads stocking to claim payments do so at minimum rates. The suckler farmers that exits from good land will tend to go into milk, the lad from poorer land will stock at minimum rate to claim DA. He is just as likly to go into sheep or to minimum stock sucklers. Most lads that stock for DA also tend to buy the older animal to achieve LU's.

Traditionally calves were taken from farms in midlands and south and reared along west coast to be returned as stores at 2+ years of age. However processors require cattle in general sub 30 months so lads could well lose there shirts unless they bring cattle to decent weights. A suckler will convert poorer quality forage to milk for a calf. Calves and weanlings are poorer to convert this forage to flesh.

Finally at the end of the line is me a finisher( in a smallish way) in general we work off a margin and transfer loss or profit to rearer and breeders. Those that enter these area's have to understand that as well and I am just point out that reality. It matters little to me if you pay 50, 100 or 150/head for a friesian calf. However when he is a store do not expect me to pay for careless costs. I know what it costs me to take an animal from 18 months to finish. I will add my margin to that cost and take it away from what I got from similar type cattle in that year and buy my stores at or less that that if I can. I in general will try to judge the market I will reduce cattle numbers if outlook is poor and buy extra if outlook is good as it was last autumn.

As many as they like can enter the calf suckler or store market. Entering the finishing market is a different game. To buy 50 store cattle below average Friesians would have cost 27-30K last autumn, goodish Fr's 35-40K, Coloured dairy stores 40-55K and good Contenintal suckler cattle 60K+

dh1985

Don't get me wrong, I am sure you have your costs well calculated but the fact remains that there is many that dont as can be seen in the prices been paid for stock over the past couple months. We sold a few later calved weanling bulls from last year a few weeks ago and the prices paid for them were crazy albeit they were good ones. I don't see where the margin for the buyers would be. The fact is that not all finishers are like you and know when the animal is killed whether they have made a profit or a loss. With off farm income and grants the necessity to actually make a clear profit is not really there for a lot in every stage of the beef industry. This goes from weanling producer through to finisher. So I would be wondering would realistic/profitable priced cattle for finishing be obtainable some/all of the time.
On one of the other aspects from a post from yesterday if the dairy expansion produces approx 1.2 million surplus calves for the beef man, this comes to about 23000 calves a week from dairy alone. If the magic number is around 30000 to meet demand is there not a posibility that the dairy expansion is going to saturate the beef industry. It would take a astronomical reduction in beef cows to keep a quota for want of a better word , of 30000 finished cattle per week.
I would have thought that it would be a more suitable situation for the beef farmer to see as many of these dairy calves as possible exported.
just on your final point above of the large costs to enter the finishing end of things, if a suckler farmer gets rid of say 30 cows and whatever number of weanlings he has from these cows in a year i think he would have enough cash to replace with 40 stores for finishing.
It's a balancing act of supply and demand that is above my pay grade as the saying goes but i would have thought, as I have said just above, the less of two evils was to get as many cattle exported both weanlings and dairy calves as possible.

Base price

I have been to a lot of dairy farms in the last 5 weeks. There are a huge number of jex bull calves been sold ex farm to rear on. Rearing jex bull calves seems to be the latest trend this year probably due to panic and early season high fr bull calf prices. I know farmers that got €35 to €55 a head for better quality jex bull calves.
The fr bull export trade has only really got going in the last two weeks. It was stalled due to high calf prices & lack of supply. From what I understand a lot of dairy farmers are calving a little later this year in preparation of the abolishment of quotas.

marathon

how are calf prices doing now for all breeds paticularly freisen, angus, hereford

ellewood

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Why will they have a field day.When lads stop producing those loss making sucklers there will be 10K less cattle a week for factory to mess with. When there stuck they will take goats. A prominent procurement manager with one of the processors said that British supermarkets are quite happy with O+ grading cattle. It those sucklers killing over 400kgs that usually cause all the problems.

I dont think every one at sucklers is loss making and are going to jack it in and go buy suck calves and rear them - I just see journal there now and 11 month old Ch heifets making the guts of E1300/
head thats prob 5-600 net made on each after cow costs and winter the hwifer till now would ya make that on a Fr bullock - maybe! But I dont see any mass exit drom suckling any time soon tho

larrymiller

Is it ok to feed rolled barley to young calves? Have some left over and will throw it in with nuts

Mad4simmental

ellewood wrote: »

I dont think every one at sucklers is loss making and are going to jack it in and go buy suck calves and rear them - I just see journal there now and 11 month old Ch heifets making the guts of E1300/
head thats prob 5-600 net made on each after cow costs and winter the hwifer till now would ya make that on a Fr bullock - maybe! But I dont see any mass exit drom suckling any time soon tho

+1 I sold 13/14 month old heifers 450kg for €1400

sh1tstirrer

larrymiller wrote: »

Is it ok to feed rolled barley to young calves? Have some left over and will throw it in with nuts

It is, I fed calves a mix of barley, calf ration and fodder beet one year and they were like fat bulls after it.

Farmer Pudsey

larrymiller wrote: »

Is it ok to feed rolled barley to young calves? Have some left over and will throw it in with nuts

2 parts soya bean meal and 8 parts barley by weight will give you an 18% ration.

Bullocks

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

2 parts soya bean meal and 8 parts barley by weight will give you an 18% ration.

Can you buy soya bean meal in small bags ?

Farmer Pudsey

Bullocks wrote: »

Can you buy soya bean meal in small bags ?

Yes you can it is the only hi-protein straight available as a straight. Expect to pay in the region of 12/bag

frazzledhome

simx wrote: »

sold 2 week old ch heifer out of hex cow yesterday 400 out of the yard

Great to get the profit in the first 2 wks. Do you not care about the next guy? You'll get in trouble around here for behaving like a dairy farmer:)

Reggie.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Great to get the profit in the first 2 wks. Do you not care about the next guy? You'll get in trouble around here for behaving like a dairy farmer:)

Down with that sort of thing

Bullocks

frazzledhome wrote: »

Great to get the profit in the first 2 wks. Do you not care about the next guy? You'll get in trouble around here for behaving like a dairy farmer:)

You would wonder about keeping them till weaning alright , any genuine beef bred calf I saw going in the calf ring has lads having orgasms resulting in their fingers going mad to buy!
I've often seen them making €600 and the buyer delighted with his purchase

CallofGuti

Mad4simmental wrote: »

+1 I sold 13/14 month old heifers 450kg for €1400

Totally of the same opinion. It angers me to see in the media and from talking to people that the suckler sector is basically the sh1t on the bottom of the shoe. Good suckler farmers make money, they prodcue good stock, sell the weanlings .

We sold last batch of weanlings today. Mix of heifers and bulls. Heifers averaged €2.78/kg and best of the bulls made €3.40/kg. Even during the crisis last year, the older batch were making similar.

Sure there's a scale issue that comes into it to make BIG money but good stock is good stock. Breed well, select well and a simple old suckler farmer will turn a bob.

marathon

i have 2 belgian blue weanling heifers at btwn 320 and 340 kilos and am only starting out shud i sell them nw when price good or keep them for cows they yearlings nxt month they good weanlings

High bike

Am wondering the same myself,have 10 yearling charolais and limos bout 340 to 380 and intended bulling them but the price they'r making in the marts is tempting

marathon

high bike i was in mart the other day and saw a charolais heifer weighing 375 made 1050 i taut dat was serious price

sh1tstirrer

I'm taking calves to the mart Tuesday, Patricks day

cute geoge

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I'm taking calves to the mart Tuesday, Patricks day

Hope there is someone there to buy them

sh1tstirrer

cute geoge wrote: »

Hope there is someone there to buy them

Plenty, there was over 1300 calves there last week.

larrymiller

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Plenty, there was over 1300 calves there last week.

You bringing them to the parade?

sh1tstirrer

larrymiller wrote: »

You bringing them to the parade?

Seriously kanturk mart is on Tuesday.

marathon

just lookin for advice would ye sell the 2 belgian blues heifers weighing 320-340 kilos with prices good or hold onto them as cows?

dh1985

marathon wrote: »

just lookin for advice would ye sell the 2 belgian blues heifers weighing 320-340 kilos with prices good or hold onto them as cows?

If they were mine and I knew the breeding with regards milk and things and I didn't need to sell them, then I would hold them. I take it you bred them yourself. Are they muscley and how are their mothers for milk. There's a lot to be said for buying in as little stock as possible. But that's just my opinion. Others here could sa different

marathon

i bought them in last april with a view to selling them on at a year old but they good heifers they are very muscley im siding with kpn them and bullin them and start building up a stock of sucklers as thats the long term plan. i just think that at this stage selling them could turn me a few bob