How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

floggg

reprise wrote: »

So do I, I find Gerry Adams expertise on homosexuality quite sickening given his willful ignorance on rape and pedophilia.

What?

What has one got to do with the other?

Just because you might (with good reason) dislike Gerry Adams, what has that got to do with the veracity of his statement.

If he said the grass was green, would you also take issue?

reprise

Hi floggg,

I'm straight. Unlike Gerry Adams, I claim no expertise in homosexuality.

At marriage, I am a legend.

tigger123

reprise wrote: »

Hi floggg,

I'm straight. Unlike Gerry Adams, I claim no expertise in homosexuality.

At marriage, I am a legend.

You don't need to be an expert to know that people are born straight, gay, bi or whatever. It's pretty basic stuff.

Ush1

I asked my oul pair what way they were voting(knowing what they would say) and of course they were voting no.

When I debated why, it ended with my da turning up the news full blast and shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!".

Point is, don't be surprised if no side wins as they are two people who consider themselves liberal and intelligent/free thinking. Representative of many others like them.

Vote yes, don't think everyone else will.

spikeS

Ush1 wrote: »

I asked my oul pair what way they were voting(knowing what they would say) and of course they were voting no.

When I debated why, it ended with my da turning up the news full blast and shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!".

Point is, don't be surprised if no side wins as they are two people who consider themselves liberal and intelligent/free thinking. Representative of many others like them.

Vote yes, don't think everyone else will.

The no side only has the older side, look at support here with the younger people, yes has this with a landside and older people can do nothing about it

floggg

reprise wrote: »

Hi floggg,

I'm straight. Unlike Gerry Adams, I claim no expertise in homosexuality.

At marriage, I am a legend.

So do you disagree with what he said, and if so why?

jobbridge4life

spikeS wrote: »

The no side only has the older side, look at support here with the younger people, yes has this with a landside and older people can do nothing about it

Older people vote in huge numbers compared to younger groups. Its all fine and good notionally being supportive of equal marriage but if they don't actually get out and vote it will count for nothing.

Ush1

spikeS wrote: »

The no side only has the older side, look at support here with the younger people, yes has this with a landside and older people can do nothing about it

I wouldn't be as confident. A lot of older people vote and most wouldn't be on boards, and there is a heck of a lot of old people out there.

floggg

spikeS wrote: »

The no side only has the older side, look at support here with the younger people, yes has this with a landside and older people can do nothing about it

No, no, no.

Yes only wins for younger people show up - something we cannot always be trusted to do.

The older generation, as well as younger people opposed to this change, will show up en masse.

So we need to drive a big turn out, and any suggestion that this is in the bag is naive and dangerous for the yes side.

Take nothing for granted. Get out and vote, and encourage any yes supoorters you know to do the same.

reprise

tigger123 wrote: »

You don't need to be an expert to know that people are born straight, gay, bi or whatever. It's pretty basic stuff.

Self stereotyping is rarely infallible.

spikeS

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Older people vote in huge numbers compared to younger groups. Its all fine and good notionally being supportive of equal marriage but if they don't actually get out and vote it will count for nothing.

Looking at boards we have the under 40's locked, everyone is voting yes other then the one or two trolls, we care enough and will vastly outnumber the old folks on the day.

The homophobes have lost due to time and the youths progressiveness there is nothing they can do

smash

floggg wrote: »

Yes only wins for younger people show up - something we cannot always be trusted to do.

And sure knowing the government, the referendum will probably be held on a day during college exams or something.

jobbridge4life

spikeS wrote: »

Looking at boards we have the under 40's locked, everyone is voting yes other then the one or two trolls, we care enough and will vastly outnumber the old folks on the day.

The homophobes have lost due to time and the youths progressiveness there is nothing they can do

They haven't lost. The debate has really only just begun. The divorce referendum in 1995 enjoyed similar lofty projections of victory roughly the same period out from voting day, in the end it passed by roughly half a percent and many believe this was only because it was unusually wet that day in the west.

The single greatest danger to the yes side is complacency.

spikeS

jobbridge4life wrote: »

They haven't lost. The debate has really only just begun. The divorce referendum in 1995 enjoyed similar lofty projections of victory roughly the same period out from voting day, in the end it passed by roughly half a percent and many believe this was only because it was unusually wet that day in the west.

The single greatest danger to the yes side is complacency.

That was 20 years ago, they are the old no voters of the day, their children have progressed and are way more enlightened then their parents, any forum I have been on have 98% being yes voters with the odd no troll being banned within a day. It's no longer 1995

jobbridge4life

spikeS wrote: »

That was 20 years ago, they are the old no voters of the day, their children have progressed and are way more enlightened then their parents, any forum I have been on have 98% being yes voters with the odd no troll being banned within a day. It's no longer 1995

How many of the over 65s regularly use internet forums? This is a perfect example of the dangers of a the echo chamber.

spikeS

jobbridge4life wrote: »

How many of the over 65s regularly use internet forums? This is a perfect example of the dangers of a the echo chamber.

There is a lot of 40's and overs here, the religious crowd of the 90's over 65 have mostly passed on now. And none of the youth is voting no

floggg

spikeS wrote: »

That was 20 years ago, they are the old no voters of the day, their children have progressed and are way more enlightened then their parents, any forum I have been on have 98% being yes voters with the odd no troll being banned within a day. It's no longer 1995

My parents know how to use the internet but it wouldn't even occur to them to join message boards or social media platforms. You aren't hearing the older generations voices here because they don't use forums like this.

Also, when did younger voters ever mobilise on mass for anything in this country. Younger voters are the least likely to get off their area and vote.

Older voters are the most likely.

If everybody's vote in the country was counted, the yes side would win (assuming the No sides fear mongering and red herrings don't sow too much confusion on the issues).

But everybody's vote won't be counted because lots of people won't bother to vote.

So instead of telling everybody that this is a done deal, and thus giving the impression to people Tree or vote might not be needed, it would be much more productive of you to just tell people to vote.

The more you say it's a done deal, the less likely the vote will carry.

MrPudding

spikeS wrote: »

There is a lot of 40's and overs here, the religious crowd of the 90's over 65 have mostly passed on now. And none of the youth is voting no

You are presupposing that everyone that would vote yes will actually get off their arse, register to vote and then go out on the day and vote.

MrP

Daith

spikeS wrote: »

There is a lot of 40's and overs here, the religious crowd of the 90's over 65 have mostly passed on now. And none of the youth is voting no

Boards.ie is meaningless when it comes to this referendum.

If it happened tomorrow it would probably be defeated.

Tasden

spikeS wrote: »

That was 20 years ago, they are the old no voters of the day, their children have progressed and are way more enlightened then their parents, any forum I have been on have 98% being yes voters with the odd no troll being banned within a day. It's no longer 1995

If the "no trolls" were being banned within a day then what makes you think genuine no voters (not trolls) aren't being banned too? Or aren't bothering to voice their opinion in case they are labelled as a no troll rather than a poster with a genuine opinion.

And you keep saying "there is nothing they can do"... they can vote no. And they will. They are the ones that actually WILL do something about it.

Ctrl Alt Delete

spikeS wrote: »

The no side only has the older side, look at support here with the younger people, yes has this with a landside and older people can do nothing about it

Thats been said many a time before and like I said earlier in thread. I've yet to see a boards poll be anywhere close to an actual referendum result percentage.

Like it or lump it the fact remains that % older people vote in alot higher numbers in referendums and are more active.

% wise older people will be more likely to be against gay marriage

% wise the catholic teachings (agree with them or not) has been ingrained in many a person.

This referendum is not over by a long shot, but then again as a person who will vote no myself (awaits the typical tyrade accusations of being anti gay) :rolleyes:

I hope the yes side make it easier for that no victory by thinking its already won

spikeS wrote: »

That was 20 years ago, they are the old no voters of the day, their children have progressed and are way more enlightened then their parents, any forum I have been on have 98% being yes voters with the odd no troll being banned within a day. It's no longer 1995

Please do continue to think this is the case I implore you :P:P:P:P:P

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

This referendum is not over by a long shot, but then again as a person who will vote no myself (awaits the typical tyrade accusations of being anti gay) :rolleyes:

Any reason why you're voting No to equal rights for homosexual couples?

jobbridge4life

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Thats been said many a time before and like I said earlier in thread. I've yet to see a boards poll be anywhere close to an actual referendum result percentage.

Like it or lump it the fact remains that % older people vote in alot higher numbers in referendums and are more active.

% wise older people will be more likely to be against gay marriage

% wise the catholic teachings (agree with them or not) has been ingrained in many a person.

This referendum is not over by a long shot, but then again as a person who will vote no myself (awaits the typical tyrade accusations of being anti gay) :rolleyes:

I hope the yes side make it easier for that no victory by thinking its already won

Oh you are not anti-gay you are just anti-gay people enjoying the same rights as their straight compatriots.:cool:

stevowhelo1

I will vote yes. I think that by voting no it supports a backwards mentality that was once present in Ireland. We must move on and rid ourselves of such a backwards point of view, this world doesn't need that type of mentality we all deserve the right to love peacefully without question.

- Teenager with many gay friends and a gay relative. Peace .

Ctrl Alt Delete

Daith wrote: »

Any reason why you're voting No to equal rights for homosexual couples?

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

jobbridge4life

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

Gay people can already adopt. Gay couples will be able to adopt together before the referendum.

spikeS

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the state.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

Gay men can still adopt you voting no won't change that, homophobes only use kids cause they don't want to say they are homophobic

Ctrl Alt Delete

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Gay people can already adopt. Gay couples will be able to adopt together before the referendum.

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

How is it that all these No voters have gay friends? :rolleyes:

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

Not yet but that is changing in advance of the referendum to allow couples to jointly adopt.

Ctrl Alt Delete

spikeS wrote: »

Gay men can still adopt you voting no won't change that, homophobes only use kids cause they don't want to say they are homophobic

And idiots will only call people like me homophobes when I posted a detailed post just prior to yours ;););)

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

Voting no won't stop gay people adopting.

There's a problem in your logic here.

AtomicHorror

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

What does this have to do with the marriage referendum?? Adoption by homosexual couples is coming either way.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And idiots will only call people like me homophobes when I posted a detailed post just prior to yours ;););)

I wouldn't call you a homophobe. Misinformed yes.

jobbridge4life

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

No they cannot.

Regardless the argument in your post is nullified. Can you illustrate other reasons you want to vote to maintain the second class status of your friends and other LGB people?

Ctrl Alt Delete

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

Well that is exactly the point.

Firstly as has been pointed out to you this referendum has nothing to do with adoption and gay adoption exists already - so your choice to vote "no" for this reason is simply a misinformed decision.

However let us imagine for a moment that you are correct and this referendum WAS relevant to this. What exists now is that gay people can adopt singly. That is to say - when the people evaluating the placement of a child evaluate such a case - they are doing it on incomplete information. They only have half the story.

I do not know about you - but that worries me. I want to think that the people evaluating the placement of a child for adoption have as much information to base their evaluation on as they can.

So given adoption by gay singles ALREADY exists - is it not better that such people be married and therefore the adoption agency will have the full data set upon which to base their evaluation?

This is before we get into the simple fact that you and others on the thread have failed to put together an argument as to what is wrong with gay couples adopting in the first place - even if it were relevant to this referndum - which as you have been told a few times already: It is not.

Ctrl Alt Delete

eviltwin wrote: »

How is it that all these No voters have gay friends? :rolleyes:

Lets see shall I count them out LOL 2 gay cousins, 1 gay female couple, no gay male couples, i employ 4 openly gay males and do business with at least another 2 gay males weekly but I suspect that number to be 4 or 5 :P:P:P:P

I was even a steward in Gay Pride parade 2 years ago

But heres the thing alot of gay people don't understand that I can empathise, understand gay rights issues, not be afraid of gays (even if some of them can be OTT in your face annoying), form professional and friendly relationships and so on.

All of that doesn't mean that I have to conform the the gay agenda way of thinking. I can form my own opinion and agree with certain aspects and disagree with other aspects based on my upbringing and sexual orientation such is my right

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good and posters like spikes is exactly the kind of person who will lose this referendum for you guys.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good.

You see everyone has an opinion. It doesn't mean their opinion is correct.

You brought up the adoption piece. The referendum has nothing to do with it

Don't be so quick to place yourself as the victim if your arguments aren't any good.

shruikan2553

Gay people can have children and can raise them with their same sex partner. There are many doing it right now. The only change will be that it will be possible for the other partner to be a legal guardian of the child.

If you are voting know because you are against gay people adopting you are either blind or misinformed. Adoption in Ireland isn't that common and gay people can already adopt a child.

floggg

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

As has been said, gay people can currently adopt but are assessed as a single person.

The ability to adopt will be extended to gay couples shortly, and regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

There are also many children being raised by gay couples already - though their rights are severely prejudiced by the lack of full recognition of their parents relationship, as they only have a relationship in law with one of them.

Finally, it is now well settled that children raised by gay couples fare just as well children raised by heterosexual couples, and no disadvantage for children raised by gay couples has been identified.

We can provide links to those studies to back it up if you wish.

Any of that change your mind. If not, what is your specific concerns.

To Elland Back

spikeS wrote: »

Looking at boards we have the under 40's locked, everyone is voting yes other then the one or two trolls, we care enough and will vastly outnumber the old folks on the day.

Just an observation, but I can see many No voters deciding not to register on this poll or comment in the thread

TheBeardedLady

I get nervous when people announce a victory for the yes vote already. It ain't over until the fat lady sings 'n' all da and I don't believe we can be so cocky. We should really be hammering home to friends and family how important it is to register and to vote.

I wouldn't be so sure it's simply a case of young voters voting yes and older voters voting no; look at the results so far and remember that most Boards posters would be under 50 (under 40, even). My stepmother is so Catholic she joined a convent briefly in her early 20s but she's voting yes (as is my dad in his early 70s). We CAN'T get complacent.

The point was made before that it's probably a waste of time trying to change the minds of definite no voters and instead we should be focusing on those who don't know, who wouldn't normally vote but would vote yes in theory and ensure the already existing yes voters actually get out on the day and vote and not assume it's a done deal.

spikeS

To Elland Back wrote: »

Just an observation, but I can see many No voters deciding not to register on this poll or comment in the thread

The poll is private I can understand if they did not want to post to show they are homophobic but they can vote no in the poll above and no one would know. It's just that most youth are just not homophobic anymore.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Deleted User wrote: »

So given adoption by gay singles ALREADY exists - is it not better that such people be married and therefore the adoption agency will have the full data set upon which to base their evaluation?

This is before we get into the simple fact that you and others on the thread have failed to put together an argument as to what is wrong with gay couples adopting in the first place - even if it were relevant to this referndum - which as you have been told a few times already: It is not.

Firstly, can I just say I appreciate logical / thought out responses as opposed to responses like spikes.

You are 100% right in your rationale two is better than 1 and a long term committed relationship is better (and I will also concede that straight couples do not value long term either).

Call it trolling , ignorant, call it whatever you want, my upbringing in terms of family values, teachings and yes even religious views means I fundamently disagree with same sex marriage according to my personal values.

That doesn't mean I don't support gay issues / equality on a myriad of other things because I do. But for me I personally draw the line at the institute of children and marriage.

And frankly the pro side will have to engage with people like me with no fully rational reason en masse to win this referendum.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

That doesn't mean I don't support gay issues / equality on a myriad of other things because I do. But for me I personally draw the line at the institute of children and marriage.

So you don't support equality for gay people. Can you not just say that?

You just seem to want people to call you whatever. Not sure I get the point of that.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Daith wrote: »

Don't be so quick to place yourself as the victim if your arguments aren't any good.

I'm not playing any victim

floggg wrote: »

Finally, it is now well settled that children raised by gay couples fare just as well children raised by heterosexual couples, and no disadvantage for children raised by gay couples has been identified.

We can provide links to those studies to back it up if you wish.

I've read plenty of figures reports mainly from the US in particular and I will not only agree with you but I will say that in some cases the children have excelled and like I said earlier plenty of straight couples people do not value the family unit (regardless of its shape) either.

But it does not change my fundamental opinion

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Lets see shall I count them out LOL 2 gay cousins, 1 gay female couple, no gay male couples, i employ 4 openly gay males and do business with at least another 2 gay males weekly but I suspect that number to be 4 or 5 :P:P:P:P

I was even a steward in Gay Pride parade 2 years ago

But heres the thing alot of gay people don't understand that I can empathise, understand gay rights issues, not be afraid of gays (even if some of them can be OTT in your face annoying), form professional and friendly relationships and so on.

All of that doesn't mean that I have to conform the the gay agenda way of thinking. I can form my own opinion and agree with certain aspects and disagree with other aspects based on my upbringing and sexual orientation such is my right

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good and posters like spikes is exactly the kind of person who will lose this referendum for you guys.

I don't think you're a homophobe. I am surprised that you have so many gay friends and even more surprised you volunteer for Pride. I would find it hard to be friends with someone who judged my suitability as a parent on my sexual preferences. I'm just struggling to understand how you can only focus on that one part and ignore everything else.

floggg

Daith wrote: »

So you don't support equality for gay people. Can you not just say that?

You just seem to want people to call you whatever. Not sure I get the point of that.

I don't agree with his stance, but he has respectfully set it out and engaged in it (to a limited extent) without showing any animus or disrespect.


Show him the same respect. Badgering him and taking pot shots isn't going to get you anywhere. I

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I'm not playing any victim

You're expecting people to call you names for your opinion.

You're opinions lack any logic though.

Daith

floggg wrote: »

Show him the same respect. Badgering him and taking pot shots isn't going to get you anywhere. I

Honestly, I don't see how any person can say they support equality for gay people and in the same sentence say they don't.

Sorry.

I'm not expecting to get anywhere either.