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Kids in bedsits

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  • 25-01-2015 11:28am
    #1
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭


    Query: Are children permitted to live in single-person flats/bedsits?

    There are bathrooms in each dwelling as well as small kitchen etc. Just not clear on whether or not children are legally allowed to be living in such a place along with a parent.

    Thanks in advance.
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    #2
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Query: Are children permitted to live in single-person flats/bedsits?

    There are bathrooms in each dwelling as well as small kitchen etc. Just not clear on whether or not children are legally allowed to be living in such a place along with a parent.

    Thanks in advance.

    Surely a single person means precisely that? A child is a person


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    #3
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Surely a single person means precisely that? A child is a person

    The child is not alone in the flat....:confused: Therefore there would be two persons living there.

    I am asking if this situation is legally permitted.


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    #4
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Query: Are children permitted to live in single-person flats/bedsits?

    There are bathrooms in each dwelling as well as small kitchen etc. Just not clear on whether or not children are legally allowed to be living in such a place along with a parent.

    Thanks in advance.

    What makes it a 'single-person' flat? That's not a legal restriction, it's just a description of their normal use.


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    #5
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    The child is not alone in the flat....:confused: Therefore there would be two persons living there.

    I am asking if this situation is legally permitted.

    Your question was if two people are allowed live in a "single-person " bedsit or flat.


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    #6
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    What makes it a 'single-person' flat? That's not a legal restriction, it's just a description of their normal use.

    It's one room so I am referring to it as single person.

    So let me re-phrase the question: Is it legal to have more than one person living in one room/bedsit/flat?

    Thanks.


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    #7
    seventeen sheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    Legally? Can't see why not.

    It's possible however that bedsit owners may unwilling to rent a bedsit to someone with a child, if it's advertised as being suitable for a single person.

    From a practical point of view, I can see how it would be possible (though not ideal) until the child is maybe 18-24 months max ... I can't see it being a viable option after that; the child would really need their own space, in my opinion.


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    #8
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    seventeen sheep wrote: »
    Legally? Can't see why not.

    It's possible however that bedsit owners may unwilling to rent a bedsit to someone with a child, if it's advertised as being suitable for a single person.

    From a practical point of view, I can see how it would be possible (though not ideal) until the child is maybe 18-24 months max ... I can't see it being a viable option after that; the child would really need their own space, in my opinion.

    Thanks. I agree with you of course and just was unclear as to whether or not this kind of situation was permitted in a legal sense. So I guess it is!


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    #9
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    It's one room so I am referring to it as single person.

    So let me re-phrase the question: Is it legal to have more than one person living in one room/bedsit/flat?

    Thanks.

    Of course it is.

    What's going on anyway? Are you looking for a way to deal with your neighbour's noisy child?


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    #10
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Thanks. I agree with you of course and just was unclear as to whether or not this kind of situation was permitted in a legal sense. So I guess it is!

    Not necessarily a legal problem.

    Insurance may not allow it, health and safety concerns may make a landlord forbid it.


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    #11
    qt3.14
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    I always took the "suitable for a single person" to refer to relationship status the same way you get ads looking for "professional couple" etc.


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    #12
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    qt3.14 wrote: »
    I always took the "suitable for a single person" to refer to relationship status the same way you get ads looking for "professional couple" etc.

    Yeah me the same but I was just unclear about the legality of having children living in such a setting. Didn't know it there was a legal type requirement for children (above age 3 say) having their own room or some such.

    Now I know so thanks all.


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    #13
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Yeah me the same but I was just unclear about the legality of having children living in such a setting. Didn't know it there was a legal type requirement for children (above age 3 say) having their own room or some such.

    Now I know so thanks all.


    Not really as legal advice can neither be sought or given here. If you want an answer regarding the legalities go ask a professional and not an internet forum.


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    #14
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Not really as legal advice can neither be sought or given here. If you want an answer regarding the legalities go ask a professional and not an internet forum.

    I didn't give specifics about anything-just asking in a general way and I seem to have received answers in the same sense. I don't need a professional for this but thanks anyways.


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    #15
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    I didn't give specifics about anything-just asking in a general way and I seem to have received answers in the same sense. I don't need a professional for this but thanks anyways.

    My point is you haven't received a definitive answer to your question as whether it was legally permitted - you've received opinions on whether or not it should be ok. There is a massive difference between what the general populace may deem acceptable and what is legally acceptable - this debate arises constantly with tenancy law.


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,414 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Assuming the premises is compliant for planning, fire safety, building regulations, sanitation and other purposes, I can't see there being anything that would make it a criminal offence for a child to live in such a premises.

    There may of course be some restrictions, e.g. the DSP might decline to offer Rent Allowance for such an arrangement. the Residential Tenancies Act allows landlords end a tenancy where it is over-occupied.
    qt3.14 wrote: »
    I always took the "suitable for a single person" to refer to relationship status the same way you get ads looking for "professional couple" etc.
    The Equal Status Act would impose some restrictions on that.

    "Suitable for a single person" translates as "Really small" and/or "Doesn't have a double bed".

    "Professional couple" translates as "Big enough for two people, but there is only one bed. You must be solvent."


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    #17
    SMJSF
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭SMJSF


    strangely, there's a couple in a bedsit in the block I live in and they had a baby last year.
    I've viewed the flat when the LL found the woman was pregnant and thought they were going to move out, but are still there.
    there isn't even room for a chair or dining table or TV, never mind the child's bed or toys!!
    I don't think it's a good living space for a child IMHO.


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    #18
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    SMJSF wrote: »
    strangely, there's a couple in a bedsit in the block I live in and they had a baby last year.
    I've viewed the flat when the LL found the woman was pregnant and thought they were going to move out, but are still there.
    there isn't even room for a chair or dining table or TV, never mind the child's bed or toys!!
    I don't think it's a good living space for a child IMHO.

    Why not? Especially as a small baby


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    #19
    seventeen sheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    SMJSF wrote: »
    strangely, there's a couple in a bedsit in the block I live in and they had a baby last year.
    I've viewed the flat when the LL found the woman was pregnant and thought they were going to move out, but are still there.
    there isn't even room for a chair or dining table or TV, never mind the child's bed or toys!!
    I don't think it's a good living space for a child IMHO.

    Would be fine for the first year or two if they were co-sleeping with the child.

    I've a one-year-old, and while life might be a bit more difficult without some of the bulkier equipment we have for him - cot, buggy, high-chair, travel cot, steriliser, large toys, etc - there's very little we couldn't do without if we really didn't have the space. And I don't think he'd be missing out without it, most of these things are just there to make things easier for the parents.


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    #20
    PLL
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭PLL


    God help the single parents that can only afford a bedsit being questioned as to whether they can even live in such basic accommodation.

    I'm obviously not sure of the laws here but in the shelters in the UK, victims of domestic violence have to share a room with their child, so I wouldn't see it as abnormal. Albeit not the healthiest way, people need their space.

    If it ever came to it (God forbid, but as the Simon posters say it could happen to anyone) I had nowhere to go I would appreciate the fact that cheap bedsits exist so I could get my life back together.


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    #21
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    If I go back to live and work in Dublin, I'm going to have to live in a bedsit or teeny apartment with my child who will be around 2 by then. I'd have no choice as it's the only way I could continue to save for a deposit on my own. I'm dreading it but short pain for long term gain. Rents in Dublin are extortionate for such a low standard.


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    #22
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    If I go back to live and work in Dublin, I'm going to have to live in a bedsit or teeny apartment with my child who will be around 2 by then. I'd have no choice as it's the only way I could continue to save for a deposit on my own. I'm dreading it but short pain for long term gain. Rents in Dublin are extortionate for such a low standard.

    And on the other hand, you have "local needs" in most counties, stopping people from building a home outside of Dublin if they want to leave the city. Backwards all round.


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    #23
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    PLL wrote: »
    God help the single parents that can only afford a bedsit being questioned as to whether they can even live in such basic accommodation.

    I'm obviously not sure of the laws here but in the shelters in the UK, victims of domestic violence have to share a room with their child, so I wouldn't see it as abnormal. Albeit not the healthiest way, people need their space.

    If it ever came to it (God forbid, but as the Simon posters say it could happen to anyone) I had nowhere to go I would appreciate the fact that cheap bedsits exist so I could get my life back together.

    You can't really compare a shelter for victims of domestic violence with a property someone is choosing to live in.

    Bedsits in their traditional form are illegal here in Ireland and living with a young child in a studio apartment may not be the safest of environments and something a landlord may not be willing to accept.


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    #24
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Unfortunately there isn't much choice in Dublin. There is not an abundance of quality, affordable rental properties. What choice do young families have. I would love to own my own home in the next 5 years which will force me into a box in the short term. In the two years that I have left Dublin, the house I rented jumped from €1,000 to €1,250 in rent per month. Just not fair.


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    #25
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,952 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Bedsits in their traditional form are illegal here in Ireland and living with a young child in a studio apartment may not be the safest of environments and something a landlord may not be willing to accept.

    Combined living/sleeping "apartments" are still legal provided they have their own bathroom which doesn't have to be actually inside the apartment, ie it can be off a hallway.

    Whether it's "legal" for a child to live in one depends on a few different laws, some related to property and some to parenting / child-safety. And some of the parenting judgements need toconsider cultural norms too - eg in some cultures it's considered child-abuse to have a baby sleeping alone in a room.

    But I think we can pretty safely say there is no law that children have to have their own bedrooms (the OP's original question) - because we know that when assessing housing need, councils say that it's ok for children to share with any other child until a certain age, and after that only with same-gender children. Councils don't see it as adequate housing to have adults and children sharing room - but that doesn't necessarily make it illegal.

    As a LL (admittedly not of a bedsit / studio) it's not an arrangement I'd go for in general. I might make an exception for a non-custodial parent who only has the child for a couple of nigths/week - but even then I'd be more worried about the effect of child-noise on my other tenants than the safety of the child (that's the parent's call, unless there are structural issues in the building).

    As a citizen, I don't think that children should be living in inner-city locations, which is where most bedsits are. But that's my personal call, rather than one based on laws.

    Looking at the economics, that a low-paid working parent also gets FIS and child-benefit. It's hard to see that they couldn't afford at least a 1brm.


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