My Landlord is trying to keep my Deposit unfairly

dissed doc

foggy_lad wrote: »

Landlord agreed and that is all that counts!

Yeah he agreed, but the tenant remains responsible. Someone might get permission to smoke in a property as well, it doesn't mean the landlord is responsible for the damage to paint, etc.,. Responsibility for the action is still 100% with the person doing the action, IMO.

firestarter51

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive been in houses before where people have cats, and the smell of cat is in everything. People who live there can't smell it as they're used to it. I know well even in my house I can't smell the smoke anymore , even though everyone else who comes in knows theres smokers there by the smell.

Your landlord getting it industrially cleaned (blinds and all) is very reasonable, ask for a receipt and hope its less than whats left of the deposit.

i agree i had indoor cats for years, never noticed the smell
went a year without a cat, called to someone that had a cat, the smell was very strong.
lease said no pets, need to pay for a deep clean simples

firestarter51

punisher5112 wrote: »

7 years though people.

All the places I have rented were filthy going into them and spotless when left.

Some people live in absolute filth.

Ask threshold for advice and then bring a case to prtb if you believe the deposit loss is unfair.

more fool you for renting a filthy place, madness imo

foggy_lad

dissed doc wrote: »

Yeah he agreed, but the tenant remains responsible. Someone might get permission to smoke in a property as well, it doesn't mean the landlord is responsible for the damage to paint, etc.,. Responsibility for the action is still 100% with the person doing the action, IMO.

If a LL gives permission to tenants to smoke in a kitchen or living room they can not come back after 7 years whinging that the walls are yellow and the whole house smells of smoke and the tenant will have to pay for painting/cleaning.

In this case the LL knew the risks as he has dogs himself so should know the damage animals can do as regards smells and hair/fur etc yet gave permission, What that means is that any hair/fur/smell etc becomes "normal wear and tear".

The place would be due a deep cleaning and repaint even if it hasn't been done in 7 years and this whole thing stinks of the LL trying to get the tenants to cover for what is normal wear and tear!

Generic Dreadhead

I should clarify that I am paid up to date on my rent.

I only mentioned he has dogs as he's trying to claim the Dander caused the allergic reaction, and his dogs are not a hypoallegic breed.
I'm not disputing cleaning the place to a standard of "no mess, dirt, fur etc" but he's digging out all sort of web documents which suit his stance.
Like "the dander will stay there for 6 months and cannot be gotten rid of by conventional cleaning means" etc etc.

I'm not arguing is that is/isn't the case but it's all very suitable for him given this came up the day after we discussed deposit deductions.

Regarding the other cleaning stuff, I've painted the entire house myself, I only mention this so noone gets the impression I haven't given a tuppence f**k about the house.

So should I say I refuse to accept that as reasonable as he accepted we had cats (didn't evict us etc)?
How am I supposed to know if the next tenants are allergic to cat dander (Not fur, I'll get rid of all that)?

Also, fwiw there's Bats in the eaves of the ceiling/roof and has been for a long while now. So this is all very coincedental

macyard

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a LL gives permission to tenants to smoke in a kitchen or living room they can not come back after 7 years whinging that the walls are yellow and the whole house smells of smoke and the tenant will have to pay for painting/cleaning.

In this case the LL knew the risks as he has dogs himself so should know the damage animals can do as regards smells and hair/fur etc yet gave permission, What that means is that any hair/fur/smell etc becomes "normal wear and tear".

The place would be due a deep cleaning and repaint even if it hasn't been done in 7 years and this whole thing stinks of the LL trying to get the tenants to cover for what is normal wear and tear!

He said only if no damage after the person already did it putting the LL under a barrel. If op asked before doing it he could have said no.

The fur is dirt and damage that op agreed be responsible for after he took in cats without asking first

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

putting the LL under a barrel.

Not really no, he could have gotten tenants for this place in a heartbeat. I would not be moving if he was not increasing the rent. It's not like if he gave us a months notice to move out for "breaking the lease" that he would have had a vacant property for ages.... it's a nice, big 4 bedroom house in a student area (we're working professionals)

He accepted as he knew i'd stay living here and i'm pretty reasonable to deal with, have always paid the rent on time and have never cause any issues. He even gave me a written reference saying such

macyard

Cormac... wrote: »

Not really no, he could have gotten tenants for this place in a heartbeat. I would not be moving if he was not increasing the rent. It's not like if he gave us a months notice to move out for "breaking the lease" that he would have had a vacant property for ages.... it's a nice, big 4 bedroom house in a student area (we're working professionals)

He accepted as he knew i'd stay living here and i'm pretty reasonable to deal with, have always paid the rent on time and have never cause any issues. He even gave me a written reference saying such

Right way is to ask before taking them in, you left him in the bind telling him after I suspect you knew this hence why you took them in first, he said as long as you cover the damage he guess it was ok, now he asking you to pay for that damage

maggiepip

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

Bed bug are a serious thing and need to be dealt with quickly, on house should be rented with them

maggiepip

macyard wrote: »

Bed bug are a serious thing and need to be dealt with quickly, on house should be rented with them

Ah for heavens sake every bed has bugs, you can't even see them.

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

Right way is to ask before taking them in, you left him in the bind telling him after I suspect you knew this hence why you took them in first, he said as long as you cover the damage he guess it was ok, now he asking you to pay for that damage

Well give the 1st cat was rescued from next door in winter from the engine of a car when it was left to die as a kitten (by it's mother, not our neighbours etc) we didn't exactly think to have a big sit around the kitchen table to hammer out a plan. He was grand with the cats being there (we only got the 2nd a year later on the back of him being ok with the 1st, and the 1st being lonely while we were at work).

He could have said "NO CATS - look at the lease here, pack your things or throw the cat out" but he did not.

I really don't see how it's damage.... if you're not allergic to cats this makes no difference.... Maybe I could just say I'd pay it if the next tennant is indeed allergic to cat dander (not fur)? And if they are not, he can move along.

FWIW I also know he's torn between renting again and selling and this would be a lovely oppurtunity to have the place given the once over in the hazmat suits

garhjw

maggiepip wrote: »

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

Nonsense, it's reasonable for the landlord to have the place professionally cleaned after cats being in the place. It would be irresponsible to relet the place without having the place properly cleaned.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

Ah for heavens sake every bed has bugs, you can't even see them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Why are people still saying "Fur", I could not have been clearer on that. There will be no fur. Dander is not fur. I'm not gonna leave any fur in the property.

He's going to get quotes for cleaning the property from 4 cleaning companies.

gozunda

macyard wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Well tbh so can peanuts but does that mean that the OP must ensure that the house is made free from ALL potential allergens?

Unless the landlord provides a certified allergen free house at a premium then I believe that argument is null.

Lantus

There has been an assumption that the landlord has had such a reaction to these cats without any proof whatsoever. While it 'may' be true it could also be a ploy.

Do you have any friends who are allergic to cats? Get them around for tea. You should know in a very quick amount of time if that is the case. If the lease prohibits pets then your landlord has walked you into breaching it and used your kindness against you. But, get advise from PRTB and threshold

However, he must keep all receipts and show the full cost to you of any cleaning including a breakdown of the costs if he is so keen to take your deposit.

Cats set me off awful bad so if I rented somewhere that was no pets but caused me a reaction I'd go ballistic as basically I'd be disabled and unable to work or function.

Eric Cartman

Lantus wrote: »

There has been an assumption that the landlord has had such a reaction to these cats without any proof whatsoever. While it 'may' be true it could also be a ploy.

Do you have any friends who are allergic to cats? Get them around for tea. You should know in a very quick amount of time if that is the case. If the lease prohibits pets then your landlord has walked you into breaching it and used your kindness against you. But, get advise from PRTB and threshold

However, he must keep all receipts and show the full cost to you of any cleaning including a breakdown of the costs if he is so keen to take your deposit.

Cats set me off awful bad so if I rented somewhere that was no pets but caused me a reaction I'd go ballistic as basically I'd be disabled and unable to work or function.

tbh allergies or not, the smell, the fur , cat litter in carpets . It all needs to be cleaned and the landlord has the option of paying for it to be professionally cleaned or try to half arsed clean it themselves and try air the smell out over a month before letting new tenants in.

If I went to see a house that smelled like cats, I would ask for it to be professionally cleaned, and I'm not allergic to them.

maggiepip

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tbh allergies or not, the smell, the fur , cat litter in carpets . It all needs to be cleaned and the landlord has the option of paying for it to be professionally cleaned or try to half arsed clean it themselves and try air the smell out over a month before letting new tenants in.

If I went to see a house that smelled like cats, I would ask for it to be professionally cleaned, and I'm not allergic to them.

Who said the house smells??

Grandpa Hassan

Pretty straightforward IMO. The OP had had cost cats so needs to get the place deep cleaned. You can't expect the LL to pay extra out of his own pocket to clean up after a tenant who wants pets. If you keep pets you should get the place clean of all traces....and a professional clean is the only way to to this. That's one of the costs of keeping pets. Its not the LLs responsibility to pick up that bill, even if pets are allowed. Let alone if they're not!

punisher5112

After 7 years the property owner would want to be spending a few €s to get the place a slight bit at least updated.

The LL can claim back on costs and such.

I fully agree with leaving the place clean but carpets after 7 years of wear and tear would be a good time to change unless they were some mad expensive type but any rental property I have done work in or lived in usually has the cheapest fitted.

In this case the op has even painted the property which he paid for and did not have to do this but I am sure from what I have read it was his/their home and that would be a good tenant in my eyes to be losing.


As I said before Threshold and then PRTB if needed.

Also I have worked in a good few rentals where the tenant never cleaned anything or would rarely take out rubbish and leave the place in bits.

Tarzana2

Cormac... wrote: »

I only mentioned he has dogs as he's trying to claim the Dander caused the allergic reaction, and his dogs are not a hypoallegic breed.

You can be allergic to one species and not another.

The_Conductor

Guys- this is why its becoming more and more usual for a separate deposit to be demanded where a tenant decides to keep pets.

After 7 years- a large amount of repair work could normally be expected- up to and including repainting a property. If a dog or a cat has been present- however, a deep clean will almost inevitably also be necessitated.

I'm not allergic to dogs or cats- but I most certainly will not rent a property where one has been for several years- I don't care how 'clean' they have been- there will be traces of them everywhere, I will be able to smell them- I will not live there. As for a smoker- I have Crohn's Disease- and if I am in a kitchen that has been used by smokers- I could quite possibly by vomiting within 10 minutes, and hospitalised with an obstruction within a few hours.

If the OP wants to go to the PRTB- that is their prerogative- however, they need to be aware that there are several PRTB rulings- which support the landlord in cases like this- and indeed also in at least one cases where a deep clean did not occur- where a new tenant had to be put up by a landlord elsewhere while a deepclean was done retrospectively.

Your cat may be the cleanest, most pleasant, creature in the world. However- other people should not have to live with constant memories of your cat, long after you are gone.

TrishSimon

The_Conductor wrote: »

Guys- this is why its becoming more and more usual for a separate deposit to be demanded where a tenant decides to keep pets.

After 7 years- a large amount of repair work could normally be expected- up to and including repainting a property. If a dog or a cat has been present- however, a deep clean will almost inevitably also be necessitated.

I'm not allergic to dogs or cats- but I most certainly will not rent a property where one has been for several years- I don't care how 'clean' they have been- there will be traces of them everywhere, I will be able to smell them- I will not live there. As for a smoker- I have Crohn's Disease- and if I am in a kitchen that has been used by smokers- I could quite possibly by vomiting within 10 minutes, and hospitalised with an obstruction within a few hours.

If the OP wants to go to the PRTB- that is their prerogative- however, they need to be aware that there are several PRTB rulings- which support the landlord in cases like this- and indeed also in at least one cases where a deep clean did not occur- where a new tenant had to be put up by a landlord elsewhere while a deepclean was done retrospectively.

Your cat may be the cleanest, most pleasant, creature in the world. However- other people should not have to live with constant memories of your cat, long after you are gone.

I've been reading all the post and I rent and am a cat owner too, I have several cats and my LL knows about it. I keep the house spotless and there is no smell of cats and I make sure of that I will point out that I do think the LL of the original posters house is being over the top if she has kept it clean and stayed on top of things there is no need for a " deep Clean " but I would agree a cleaning company would probably have to come in to put a few hours in and after 7 years repair work ie. maintenance of the property would also need to be done at the cost of the LL unless its something the tenant has broken or damaged, I took pictures when I moved to the property where I was so I have evidence of how it looked when I moved in and how it is kept now. The house I am renting when I moved in was filthy and in bits there had been a big dog in the house and although I could not smell dog or anything in fact the house was more dirty because of the people and their kids so it took me 2 weeks to get the place up to standard why because my LL would not clean it, replace any carpets or get a cleaning company in.

I too am a landlord of one property which I rent out so I know that from having 2 cats you are not going to need a deep clean which will take up all of the deposit.

If the LL is so intent on getting the place industrially cleaned I would ask for the name of the company and check the clean is booked also look for receipts with pricing on it.
If he is allergic to cats why is he basing it on other people also being allergic and remember when he had the walk through the cats were prob still in the house and the property had not been cleaned yet so of course he is going to have a reaction.
Once a cleaning company just a general one has come in and done maybe 3 hours it would be okay he is chancing his arm.

Graces7

Cormac... wrote: »

I'm moving out of a property I've rented for 7 years.
About 2 years ago we rescued 2 cats.
I said it to the landlord and he said we weren't meant to have pets but as long as they don't damage the house he's ok with them.
Yesterday I met him to discuss the deposit and let him have a walk through the property.
We agreed on a couple of small things that were deductions/replacements amounting to about 15% of the deposit.

The next day he text me to say he'd had an allergic reaction to the cats (he's a dog owner) and as a result we'd have to get the place cleaned.
Thing is he wants to get the entirety of the whole property industrially cleaned as apparently the "dander" that cats give off can be in surfaces for 6months and cannot be cleaned out by vacuuming etc.

So low and behold now he's trying to keep the whole deposit.
I said we'd vacuum and clean and shampoo the place but now he's saying even the blinds etc have to be chemically cleaned.

Can someone please advise me if he's allowed do this.
It's a lot of money and it seems far to convent given there was no damage and he calls for the rent monthly to the house and has not had a reaction before.

I understand we have to give the property back in the condition that we received it in, but does that include having the place blitzed so it's hypoallergenic?

I don't know what to do

Out of interest how long was he in the place and did he show any signs of allergy then? Yes I am very suspicious indeed and if there were really this issue he would have to replace all fabric too.

Graces7

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

to an asthmatic or someone allergic to animal hair, fur is pretty damaging.

If you are that allergic then you would surely ask before renting if they had had cats there.

Graces7

Cormac... wrote: »

I should clarify that I am paid up to date on my rent.

I only mentioned he has dogs as he's trying to claim the Dander caused the allergic reaction, and his dogs are not a hypoallegic breed.
I'm not disputing cleaning the place to a standard of "no mess, dirt, fur etc" but he's digging out all sort of web documents which suit his stance.
Like "the dander will stay there for 6 months and cannot be gotten rid of by conventional cleaning means" etc etc.

I'm not arguing is that is/isn't the case but it's all very suitable for him given this came up the day after we discussed deposit deductions.

Regarding the other cleaning stuff, I've painted the entire house myself, I only mention this so noone gets the impression I haven't given a tuppence f**k about the house.

So should I say I refuse to accept that as reasonable as he accepted we had cats (didn't evict us etc)?
How am I supposed to know if the next tenants are allergic to cat dander (Not fur, I'll get rid of all that)?

Also, fwiw there's Bats in the eaves of the ceiling/roof and has been for a long while now. So this is all very coincedental

Well said. I have that web site up actually! That report is in one of the comments at the end and he has cherry picked of course. http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/pet-dander-woes-118009 He did accept the cats an d yes I am of the opinion that he is just trying to keep your deposit, like the ll who tried the same with me by claiming the house was "very dirty" when I had had to evacuate because of flooding. Everything above floor level had been scrubbed and bleached..

Graces7

The_Conductor wrote: »

Guys- this is why its becoming more and more usual for a separate deposit to be demanded where a tenant decides to keep pets.

After 7 years- a large amount of repair work could normally be expected- up to and including repainting a property. If a dog or a cat has been present- however, a deep clean will almost inevitably also be necessitated.

I'm not allergic to dogs or cats- but I most certainly will not rent a property where one has been for several years- I don't care how 'clean' they have been- there will be traces of them everywhere, I will be able to smell them- I will not live there. As for a smoker- I have Crohn's Disease- and if I am in a kitchen that has been used by smokers- I could quite possibly by vomiting within 10 minutes, and hospitalised with an obstruction within a few hours.

If the OP wants to go to the PRTB- that is their prerogative- however, they need to be aware that there are several PRTB rulings- which support the landlord in cases like this- and indeed also in at least one cases where a deep clean did not occur- where a new tenant had to be put up by a landlord elsewhere while a deepclean was done retrospectively.

Your cat may be the cleanest, most pleasant, creature in the world. However- other people should not have to live with constant memories of your cat, long after you are gone.

With your illness you surely would check carefully before renting. See the website I quoted. Unless even carpets are removed? The ll approved the cats verbally.

Graces7

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tbh allergies or not, the smell, the fur , cat litter in carpets . It all needs to be cleaned and the landlord has the option of paying for it to be professionally cleaned or try to half arsed clean it themselves and try air the smell out over a month before letting new tenants in.

If I went to see a house that smelled like cats, I would ask for it to be professionally cleaned, and I'm not allergic to them.

cat litter in carpets? Interesting idea..:rolleyes: carpets are death traps anyways and were they new when the OP moved in?

Graces7

macyard wrote: »

He did he said as long as there was no damage(this was after the op brought them in without asking so it was too late anyway), the fur is damage and needs to be removed to rent it if people have allergies

amazing how he only came up with that when he was in danger if giving the OP the deposit back ... very cute! I have had landlords like that and they never won