Learner Driver Alone - Accident - ThridParty Claim

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 1:36pm #1

Hello,
I just need some suggestion on my situation below.
I am a Learner permit driver.
I was involved in an accident while i was driving alone ('m Learner permit driver). I drove into another car, a mini van, in a slow moving traffic; damage to back doors.
That time when i called-up my insurance i didn't realize that fact that i can not drive car on my own (Learner permit) - told them that it was my mistake and was driving alone.
They denied to pay for the damages to my Car. However they accepted to settle the 3rd party claims(and they did later). BUT they sent a letter indicating that "Insurance Company has the right to re-claim it back from me" as it is illegal to drive on my own on learner permit.

It seems that 3rd party settlement resulted in huge amount - 7000e (7 thousand).
Its been more than 3 months the claim is been settled but they never sent me a letter asking for that money back (good thing tho :-)
Now i have received the policy renewal letter - i see there is a slight increase, 300e/per year, in the premium.

That 7K payment is still hunting me...
1. Is it a case ever, has anyone had this experience, that insurance company will claim that money, paid to the 3rd party, back from the driver(from me)?
2. Can i switch insurance company? I am afraid if i switch they might re-open and claim that 7K from me? When switching insurance, should indicate to them that i have accident history? I think its not wise to hide this???
3. In case, if they ask for 7K is there way to escape?
4. Also, although its too late to fight, that 7K seems to be too high for the damage involved to 3rd part car - mini van back doors might require a replacement - it wasn't a new van.

My insurance is renewal in 2 weeks time.
Please suggest.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 1:44pm

You will not be pursued for the money.
Unless it is specifically prescribed in your policy document (read your policy document and see if cover is SPECIFICALLY PRESCRIBED as invalid if driving alone).
If no mention, then your policy is valid once it was taken out on the basis of full disclosure that you had only a learner permit.

bazz26 · 26-01-2015 1:52pm

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

You will not be pursued for the money.
Unless it is specifically prescribed in your policy document (read your policy document and see if cover is SPECIFICALLY PRESCRIBED as invalid if driving alone).
If no mention, then your policy is valid once it was taken out on the basis of full disclosure that you had only a learner permit.

If the insurance company has a clause included that the person insured must comply with the Rules of the Road or law then then in theory the OP didn't, by driving unaccompanied on a learner permit. By law they are obliged to pay out on any third party claims. They may not pursue someone through the courts for €7k but it could be a different case if the payout was €70k though.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 1:56pm

bazz26 wrote: »

If the insurance company has a clause included that the person insured must comply with the Rules of the Road or law then then in theory the OP didn't, by driving unaccompanied on a learner permit. By law they are obliged to pay out on any third party claims. They may not pursue someone through the courts for €7k but it could be a different case if the payout was €70k though.

It must be specifically prescribed regarding a provisional/permit.
Otherwise, is your insurance (third party, remember) invalidated when speeding, when in the bus lane, etc etc?

NO, of course not.

Alanstrainor · 26-01-2015 2:00pm

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

It must be specifically prescribed regarding a provisional/permit.
Otherwise, is your insurance (third party, remember) invalidated when speeding, when in the bus lane, etc etc?

I would think it would be fairly standard for some rule of the road to be broken in most claims. Hence such a clause doesn't really make sense.

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 2:01pm

Thanks Cleaveland!

I have below points in my policy general conditions and that what they were quoting when they denied claim for my vehicle. However in the letter to me they mentioned "THEY MAY RECOVER" - Not sure, if they mean "THEY WILL RECOVER"

A) Driving licence: There is no cover for anyone who is disqualified from driving, has never held a driving licence or who is not meeting the conditions of his/her licence/Learner permit. This includes conditions relating to the class of vehicle being driven, the requirement to be accompanied when driving under a learner permit or any other restriction or condition that may apply.

If insurance company are required to pay a claim that the policy does not cover, the Policyholder will be required to refund this amount to us

bazz26 · 26-01-2015 2:02pm

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

It must be specifically prescribed regarding a provisional/permit.
Otherwise, is your insurance (third party, remember) invalidated when speeding, when in the bus lane, etc etc?

NO, of course not.

You could argue the same against them refusing to pay out after skidding into another car coming home from the NCT centre where they failed you on bald tyres. Your policy doesn't specifically mention that your tyres need to be road worthy but I bet it has a policy to say that the car in general has to be road worthy though.

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 2:02pm

Thanks All!

I have below points in my policy general conditions and that what they were quoting when they denied claim for my vehicle. However in the letter to me they mentioned "THEY MAY RECOVER" - Not sure, if they mean "THEY WILL RECOVER"

A) Driving licence: There is no cover for anyone who is disqualified from driving, has never held a driving licence or who is not meeting the conditions of his/her licence/Learner permit. This includes conditions relating to the class of vehicle being driven, the requirement to be accompanied when driving under a learner permit or any other restriction or condition that may apply.

If insurance company are required to pay a claim that the policy does not cover, the Policyholder will be required to refund this amount to us

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 2:08pm

bazz26 wrote: »

You could argue the same against them refusing to pay out after skidding into another car coming home from the NCT centre where they failed you on bald tyres. Your policy doesn't specifically mention that your tyres need to be road worthy but I bet it has a policy to say that the car in general has to be road worthy though.

Not sure what that has to do with the points I raised.

rakusuma wrote: »

Thanks All!

I have below points in my policy general conditions and that what they were quoting when they denied claim for my vehicle. However in the letter to me they mentioned "THEY MAY RECOVER" - Not sure, if they mean "THEY WILL RECOVER"

A) Driving licence: There is no cover for anyone who is disqualified from driving, has never held a driving licence or who is not meeting the conditions of his/her licence/Learner permit. This includes conditions relating to the class of vehicle being driven, the requirement to be accompanied when driving under a learner permit or any other restriction or condition that may apply.

If insurance company are required to pay a claim that the policy does not cover, the Policyholder will be required to refund this amount to us

Ah. So in that case, in accordance with the terms of your policy, they are entitled to recover the payout from you. Sorry.

corktina · 26-01-2015 2:40pm

this thread should be required reading for all permit holders and others... flouting the Law can have serious consequences

Hopefully you'l hear no more OP but I'd stay with them for a while just in case.

moleyv · 26-01-2015 2:40pm

rakusuma wrote:

A) Driving licence: There is no cover for anyone who is disqualified from driving, has never held a driving licence or who is not meeting the conditions of his/her licence/Learner permit. This includes conditions relating to the class of vehicle being driven, the requirement to be accompanied when driving under a learner permit or any other restriction or condition that may apply.

I would say this is fairly clear cut?

whomitconcerns · 26-01-2015 2:44pm

rakusuma wrote: »

Thanks All!

I have below points in my policy general conditions and that what they were quoting when they denied claim for my vehicle. However in the letter to me they mentioned "THEY MAY RECOVER" - Not sure, if they mean "THEY WILL RECOVER"

A) Driving licence: There is no cover for anyone who is disqualified from driving, has never held a driving licence or who is not meeting the conditions of his/her licence/Learner permit. This includes conditions relating to the class of vehicle being driven, the requirement to be accompanied when driving under a learner permit or any other restriction or condition that may apply.

If insurance company are required to pay a claim that the policy does not cover, the Policyholder will be required to refund this amount to us

the bold is all you need to know...sorry OP..better start saving...and obeying the law...

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 2:49pm

:-( Thanks a lot!

whomitconcerns · 26-01-2015 3:37pm

rakusuma wrote: »

:-( Thanks a lot!

rightly or wrongly dont give up yet. Firstly it happened three months ago and you havent heard from them about the payment (which is at their discretion to chase).

BUT I am suprised that you have had such a small increase in premium...something is not adding up here....

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 3:41pm

Maybe they aren't going to bother chasing you for the repayment, it doesn't say that they will.

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 3:42pm

ya, that's what i am happy about it. So, just thinking to continue with them as the premium is not a huge hike.
On the renewal letter it is clear that they have a record of my claims.

whomitconcerns · 26-01-2015 3:43pm

rakusuma wrote: »

ya, that's what i am happy about it. So, just thinking to continue with them as the premium is not a huge hike.
On the renewal letter it is clear that they have a record of my claims.

This is what I was wondering, that maybe a bug on tehir system left it out of their calculations.

But if it shows on your renewal than it sounds like for some reason they may have decided not to recover. 7k is a pretty small settlement in the greater scheme of things TBH.

kirving · 26-01-2015 3:46pm

Maybe it's not fully settled internally, which is why the OP hasn't heard about the 7k, and also why his premium hasn't increased very much (ie: penalised for an open claim, where blame has not yet been attributed)

I think that the insurance co. should look for the money since their terms were broken, and I'm in effect paying for the accident in my premium after obeying the rules myself. Then again, in all crashes, the driver at fault has broken some law or other.

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 3:47pm

I would be the happiest, if they consider 7k is small for them; as bazz26 also indicated earlier.

StereoSound · 26-01-2015 4:03pm

Surely you knew you can't drive on your own on a learner permit? You would have learned this prior to getting your permit. Its no excuse these days not knowing that.

I would like to think you wouldn't have to pay them back as its a large sum of money but you live and learn but I probably wouldn't worry about it too much to be honest. Just keep your head down and follow the rules from here on in.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 4:24pm

Sure everyone does it :rolleyes:

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 5:39pm

StereoSound wrote: »

Surely you knew you can't drive on your own on a learner permit? You would have learned this prior to getting your permit. Its no excuse these days not knowing that.

I would like to think you wouldn't have to pay them back as its a large sum of money but you live and learn but I probably wouldn't worry about it too much to be honest. Just keep your head down and follow the rules from here on in.

ya, indeed .. like most of the L drivers, i was on my own that day - it was unfortunate that i was looking at the maps in phone in a slow moving traffic and all that happened just in few sec. Thanks for ur suggestion.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 5:41pm

rakusuma wrote: »

ya, indeed .. like most of the L drivers, i was on my own that day - it was unfortunate that i was looking at the maps in phone in a slow moving traffic and all that happened just in few sec. Thanks for ur suggestion.

:pac:
That's how to do it right!

26-01-2015 5:48pm

rakusuma wrote: »

ya, indeed .. like most of the L drivers, i was on my own that day - it was unfortunate that i was looking at the maps in phone in a slow moving traffic and all that happened just in few sec. Thanks for ur suggestion.

It can't have been moving that slow if you did that amount of damage! It's a costly lesson and one that you have hopefully learned from.

rakusuma · 26-01-2015 5:50pm

Yes - Expensive mistake in my life; in terms of money

kenmccarthy · 26-01-2015 5:59pm

Don't be too suprised at the figure of 7K for third party vehicle....a guy crashed into right hand side of my car in summer....he was 100% wrong.....anyhow I would've figured the damage to my car around 4K........when I collected it from garage 3 weeks later the invoice was 7.5K!!!

I'd pay the premium ASAP and hope to never hear about the crash again

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 26-01-2015 6:03pm

I think once garages hear insurance is involved, they jack the price up.

CiniO · 26-01-2015 6:17pm

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

You will not be pursued for the money.
Unless it is specifically prescribed in your policy document (read your policy document and see if cover is SPECIFICALLY PRESCRIBED as invalid if driving alone).
If no mention, then your policy is valid once it was taken out on the basis of full disclosure that you had only a learner permit.

Well if that was the case, they should also pay to OP for damage to his own car (assuming he had comprehensive cover but from what he said I understand he did).

moleyv · 26-01-2015 6:38pm

They might not chase you for the money.... UNTIL the accountants go to balance the books!!

ofcork · 26-01-2015 7:05pm

If you change companies you will have to tell the new one you have had an accident so that will affect your quote.

JapaneseLove · 26-01-2015 7:13pm

rakusuma wrote: »

Hello,
I just need some suggestion on my situation below.
I am a Learner permit driver.
I was involved in an accident while i was driving alone ('m Learner permit driver). I drove into another car, a mini van, in a slow moving traffic; damage to back doors.
That time when i called-up my insurance i didn't realize that fact that i can not drive car on my own (Learner permit) - told them that it was my mistake and was driving alone.
They denied to pay for the damages to my Car. However they accepted to settle the 3rd party claims(and they did later). BUT they sent a letter indicating that "Insurance Company has the right to re-claim it back from me" as it is illegal to drive on my own on learner permit.

It seems that 3rd party settlement resulted in huge amount - 7000e (7 thousand).
Its been more than 3 months the claim is been settled but they never sent me a letter asking for that money back (good thing tho :-)
Now i have received the policy renewal letter - i see there is a slight increase, 300e/per year, in the premium.

That 7K payment is still hunting me...
1. Is it a case ever, has anyone had this experience, that insurance company will claim that money, paid to the 3rd party, back from the driver(from me)?
2. Can i switch insurance company? I am afraid if i switch they might re-open and claim that 7K from me? When switching insurance, should indicate to them that i have accident history? I think its not wise to hide this???
3. In case, if they ask for 7K is there way to escape?
4. Also, although its too late to fight, that 7K seems to be too high for the damage involved to 3rd part car - mini van back doors might require a replacement - it wasn't a new van.

My insurance is renewal in 2 weeks time.
Please suggest.

Yea its the law that insurance companies have 2 pay out the 3rd party. You could drink 20 pints and drive down the road and crash into some1, they still have to pay. Now they can follow you for the claim, because you were not accompanied with a full driver. These cases go on for years and usually the company give up or are told that they will not get paid. Sticky situation you are in. Happend a friend of mine 4 years ago and its still going on.

Learner Driver Alone - Accident - ThridParty Claim

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