Balinteer Road - Changes coming..

Red Alert

College park get a signal-controlled exit, whereas Woodpark doesn't... what's the logic in that?

bronn

I really must be stupid or I've read that report incorrectly. Is Phase 2 the change of the roundabout at Wesley to a signalled intersection only? There's nothing about the awful congestion at the other end?

Red Alert wrote: »

College park get a signal-controlled exit, whereas Woodpark doesn't... what's the logic in that?

That's what I thought but they are doing something at those lights at Woodpark. Not sure what though. The plan was to leave them as they are but it looks like they're being moved further back to the junction with The Heights in Woodpark.

The Heights estate is located within relatively close proximity of The M50 and there is a risk that its signalisation would induce queuing back onto the M50 during peak times, which should be avoided.

Ahahahahahahaha! Even without a signalled junction for the Heights (and like I said, I don't know what they're at there) the traffic already queues back onto the M50. If you go up onto the Ballinteer over-bridge in the mornings or at peak times for the shopping centre, you can see that the queue stretches right back up the M50 to the curve.

markpb

bronn wrote: »

Who thought up of this brilliant plan? In fact, as mentioned in a few posts above, who the hell gave planning permission for the biggest shopping centre in the country, which is linked to the biggest road in the county, by means of a single lane carriageway that travels through about eight housing estates passes a school and one church

If the road was six lanes wide, it would still be congested because everyone would be trying to get into one place: Dundrum.

LXFlyer

bronn wrote: »

Wait - maybe I've missed it. I'll go and look for the Phase 2 stuff again. We're posting across each other.

Option 5 is the one chosen for Phase 2:

Phase 2 relates to the provision of measures to improve safety and reduce congestion at the Wesley College Roundabout.

Two through lanes on the Ballinteer Road approach, two through lanes on the Wyckham Way approach and two lanes on the Wesley College access approach. This option would require land take on the east side of Wyckham Way, north of the roundabout (a section off the garden of one residential property), land take on the west side of Ballinteer Road, south of the roundabout (a cut off the front of a section of land currently being developed) and widening of the Wesley College access road at the intersection, requiring relocation or removal of the exiting pillars and approval from the school to widen the road.

Removing the roundabout and replacing it with traffic lights will improve the overall flow of traffic in the area. Anyone who has sat on a bus as it progresses at a snail's pace along Ballinteer Avenue in the mornings will attest to that.

Ultimately there is a limit to what can be done. With all of the residential estates along that section of Ballinteer Road, anything more than a single carriageway road would be inappropriate.

It does ultimately go back to the shopping centre being granted planning permission without proper road access and a total and complete lack of any proper public transport facilities. In any other country they would have been obliged to put in a full scale bus station on site to offer people a choice.

LXFlyer

Red Alert wrote: »

College park get a signal-controlled exit, whereas Woodpark doesn't... what's the logic in that?

Again, read the report.

Phase 1

In addition, options were investigated to implement one of the following:

Option 1 Signalise the junction of Ballinteer Road and The Heights.

Option 1 would facilitate safer and more convenient access for residents of The Heights to and from Ballinteer Road. It would also provide a break in traffic flow to facilitate safer and more convenient access from surrounding residential estates. However, it was concluded that the provision of junction modifications at the College Park Avenue junction would be a more suitable solution for the following reasons:

· There is currently a toucan crossing south of the junction which assists residents to get in and out of The Heights estate.

· The Heights is currently used as a rat run during peak times to travel between Ballinteer Road and Ballinteer Avenue and signalisation of the junction may encourage this further.

· The Heights estate is located within relatively close proximity of The M50 and there is a risk that its signalisation would induce queuing back onto the M50 during peak times, which should be avoided.

· While The Heights and College Park Avenue provide access to a high proportion of the total residential housing in the study area, College Park Avenue is located more
centrally on the link and will best assist access and egress to the surrounding residential estates.

2 Maintain the College Park Avenue junction as a priority junction and provide a signalised toucan crossing on the southern arm of the intersection.

Option 2 would facilitate safer and more convenient access for residents of College Park
Avenue to and from Ballinteer Road when the toucan crossing is called. In particular, vehicles turning right from College Park Avenue onto Ballinteer Road would be able to do so more safely and conveniently during the toucan cycle. It would also provide a break in traffic flow to facilitate safer and more convenient access from surrounding residential estates when the crossing is called. However, this option was discounted during the preliminary design phase for the following reasons:

· While the crossing would facilitate safe and convenient right turning movements from College Park Road onto Ballinteer Road when it is called, it does not assist vehicles turning right from Ballinteer Road into the estate.

· The crossing will not necessarily be called at regular intervals or during peak periods of congestion when it is required the most.

· The knock on benefits of providing the crossing to residents of nearby estates in terms of safety and convenience, would be less than those achieved through the
signalisation of the junction.

3 Signalise the intersection of Ballinteer Road and College Park Avenue and provide signalised toucan crossings on the north and east arms of the junction.

Option 3 would facilitate safer and more convenient access for residents of College Park Avenue to and from Ballinteer Road and would provide a break in traffic flow to facilitate safer and more convenient access to and from the surrounding residential estates. For this reason and the reasons discussed above, Option 3 was noted as the preferred option. A number of lane configurations were then investigated and modelled for Option 3 to derive the preferred lane configuration to be advanced to detailed design.

Hence option 3 was chosen.

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

It does ultimately go back to the shopping centre being granted planning permission without proper road access and a total and complete lack of any proper public transport facilities. In any other country they would have been obliged to put in a full scale bus station on site to offer people a choice.

Something like this, perhaps?

bronn

lxflyer wrote: »

...
It does ultimately go back to the shopping centre being granted planning permission without proper road access and a total and complete lack of any proper public transport facilities. In any other country they would have been obliged to put in a full scale bus station on site to offer people a choice.

True that. Alas, not even the Mahon Tribunal could get straight answers from Frank Dunlop about the "planning" irregularities surrounding Dundrum Shopping Centre. Whatever went on, someone's pockets got lined, and we have to live with the consequences. When the "sensitive" documentation from the Mahon Tribunal is released in 30 years, we might find out.

As for reading the report, which I have done, they ARE doing something with the lights at The Heights / Woodpark but I don't know what. One set of new lights is already up with hoods over them and they're digging up that pedestrian crossing as we speak. We will have to wait and see what's unveiled.

The report conveniently ignored Woodpark when referencing that junction and keeps referring to The Heights, which is much smaller and used to be just one road in Woodpark. The Heights estate was a field between Woodpark and Kingston (itself just a field back in the day when I was a but a chizler). The "Heights" field had a substantial number of homes crammed into it and became The Heights estate. However, Woodpark is there too and it is significantly bigger than College Park by quite a ways. Now, I could be a total sceptic and have a very jaundiced view of the planning and motivations behind the planning decisions in the area (hello, "two by four club" members) but I wonder might there possibly have been someone with significant political pull who lives in College Park? :P

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Something like this, perhaps?

Bizarrely enough not everyone going to/from Dundrum lives on the LUAS line. Significant numbers come from all over south Dublin.

The lack of a proper bus station, with full priority access and proper waiting facilties on site is a disgrace. That should have been a basic planning condition.

bronn

The lack of a proper bus station, with full priority access and proper waiting facilties on site is a disgrace. That should have been a basic planning condition.

Agree. They even did away with some of the bus routes around that area too; the 48A is gone and the 47B (I loved that little bus). No Dublin bus goes to the shopping centre from the general D16 area, even though bus routes were provided along the new Ballinteer Road & Wyckham Way. They've only decommissioned them properly quite recently. I don't remember the route number that went down the Dundrum by-pass. It was very short lived and disappeared when they redid the 14 route.

A decent bus station in Dundrum that could facilitate coaches and buses from outside of Dublin would've been great and would've taken a lot of traffic off the local roads. A small feeder bus for the local area to the shopping centre and/or Luas would also have been worth the investment.

Tabnabs

Re. the traffic lights at the Woodpark junction; Delbrook and College Park only have one entrance/exit for residents, Woodpark has three. Therefore the residents have a choice of where to access the main road. From personal use I avoid the existing junction anyway as it's not worth the hassle of trying to shoot out across two lanes of busy traffic.

Larbre34

What for? No routes terminate in Dundrum? There must be about 6 routes that pass nearby on to other destinations but still serve Dundrum as a consequence.

Dundrum has very good public transport, its just the Irish thing about the car, you could send a bus to someones door and they still wouldnt use it. Nothing short of car prohibitions will change that, and thats the next generation of planning policy.

RainyDay

bronn wrote: »

Agree. They even did away with some of the bus routes around that area too; the 48A is gone and the 47B (I loved that little bus). No Dublin bus goes to the shopping centre from the general D16 area, even though bus routes were provided along the new Ballinteer Road & Wyckham Way. They've only decommissioned them properly quite recently. I don't remember the route number that went down the Dundrum by-pass. It was very short lived and disappeared when they redid the 14 route.

A decent bus station in Dundrum that could facilitate coaches and buses from outside of Dublin would've been great and would've taken a lot of traffic off the local roads. A small feeder bus for the local area to the shopping centre and/or Luas would also have been worth the investment.

lxflyer wrote: »

Bizarrely enough not everyone going to/from Dundrum lives on the LUAS line. Significant numbers come from all over south Dublin.

The lack of a proper bus station, with full priority access and proper waiting facilties on site is a disgrace. That should have been a basic planning condition.

Ever heard of park-and-ride? Ever heard of taking the bus and the Luas? Ever heard of the 75 route to Dundrum from Tallaght, or Dun Laoghaire, or Stillorgan? Ever heard of the 14 from Beaumont, through Drumcondra, city centre, Rathmines, Rathgar, Churchtown, parts of Rathfarnham straight into Dundrum village.

We had the AirCoach and the short-lived LocalLink buses, but the market didn't support them. We now have the Dublin Coach service to the Red Cow and Airport, and also to Tralee or Ennis or other destinations.

Dundrum has excellent public transport, but many folks wouldn't get out of their cars if their life depended on it. That's why they spend large amounts of time starting at the back end of the car in front.

Larbre34 wrote: »

What for? No routes terminate in Dundrum? There must be about 6 routes that pass nearby on to other destinations but still serve Dundrum as a consequence.

Dundrum has very good public transport, its just the Irish thing about the car, you could send a bus to someones door and they still wouldnt use it. Nothing short of car prohibitions will change that, and thats the next generation of planning policy.

Abso-feckin-lutely.

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Ever heard of park-and-ride? Ever heard of taking the bus and the Luas? Ever heard of the 75 route to Dundrum from Tallaght, or Dun Laoghaire, or Stillorgan? Ever heard of the 14 from Beaumont, through Drumcondra, city centre, Rathmines, Rathgar, Churchtown, parts of Rathfarnham straight into Dundrum village.

We had the AirCoach and the short-lived LocalLink buses, but the market didn't support them. We now have the Dublin Coach service to the Red Cow and Airport, and also to Tralee or Ennis or other destinations.

Dundrum has excellent public transport, but many folks wouldn't get out of their cars if their life depended on it. That's why they spend large amounts of time starting at the back end of the car in front.

And where are the proper waiting facilities with shelters for all those services?

Any big shopping centre on Dundrum's scale elsewhere has an on-site bus station with properly enclosed waiting facilities with full RTPI information provided.

That is not the case in Dundrum.

LXFlyer

Larbre34 wrote: »

What for? No routes terminate in Dundrum? There must be about 6 routes that pass nearby on to other destinations but still serve Dundrum as a consequence.

Dundrum has very good public transport, its just the Irish thing about the car, you could send a bus to someones door and they still wouldnt use it. Nothing short of car prohibitions will change that, and thats the next generation of planning policy.

It's not the actual routes themselves, it's the lack of an on-site bus station that I am getting at.

To get to the 75 westbound for example, you either have to walk up a steep hill on the Lower Kilmacud Road or up another hill to Ballinteer Road. Any comparable centre in Britain, such as Westfield for example, will have a full bus station adjacent to the entrance, and that would be a requirement of the planning permission.

Here, the buses were just an afterthought with no proper facilities provided whatsoever.

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

And where are the proper waiting facilities with shelters for all those services?

Any big shopping centre on Dundrum's scale elsewhere has an on-site bus station with properly enclosed waiting facilities with full RTPI information provided.

That is not the case in Dundrum.

lxflyer wrote: »

It's not the actual routes themselves, it's the lack of an on-site bus station that I am getting at.

To get to the 75 westbound for example, you either have to walk up a steep hill on the Lower Kilmacud Road or up another hill to Ballinteer Road. Any comparable centre in Britain, such as Westfield for example, will have a full bus station adjacent to the entrance, and that would be a requirement of the planning permission.

Here, the buses were just an afterthought with no proper facilities provided whatsoever.

Do you mean something like this covered stop, with RTPI?
https://goo.gl/maps/ozmMM8vUA2F2

It's about a 200m walk down a slight incline from the cinema entrance.

bronn

I can only think of the 14, 75 (gah!) and 44/b that serve Dundrum village. Certainly can't think of six routes but if you know them, fair play.

There is a huge area of Dublin 16 that has no bus and it's a decent walk to get to the shops in Ballinteer before you could link up with one, especially if you live in Kingston, Ticknock Park, Pine Valley etc. Pretty much all those people will take the car if they want to get to Dundrum and yes, they will pay for park & ride in Balally if they want the Luas. I don't, I take my bike, but not everyone has that option. You certainly don't have it if you want to bring the kids or want to do your shopping.

Dundrum Town Centre was supposed to be exactly that. A Town Centre with a portion given back to the local community for the library, community meetings, creche etc etc. Never happened - actually it wasn't built. All of that was supposed to be on the site of the old shopping centre along with the hotel. The bus lanes were put in but were never used and are now decommissioned. So, you've got quite a lot people in the local area who just want to go about their usual business but who now have to contend with thousands of cars pouring off the M50, down that poxy Ballinteer Road and into Dundrum.

People just don't have the option of Dublin bus which serves the shopping centre. Not near it, not in Dundrum village, not sort of in the general vicinity of it, the actual shopping centre. It's the biggest in the country and it has no buses. That's plural. Buses. It needs lots of them, frequently, from lots of different directions, that have priority access and have decent bus stops. If it had that, Ballinteer wouldn't be the total traffic hell-hole that it has become.

The Square in Tallaght has eight routes that go to it. It has the Luas at it. It has the N81 running along side it. At least you have options. Dundrum has a Luas from the city near it. It has a 75 bus that you can get once in a blue bloody moon sort of near it. It has the 14 with a solitary exposed stop near Dundrum church. The 44/b (again, very infrequent) stops on the Sandyford side. Dreadful planning and again, no surprise that all this was investigated by the Mahon Tribunal.

Thanks for linking to that, Rainy Day. It's a perfect example of how bad it is. That's the stop for the 14 / 44 as it leaves Dundrum, heading into town. Brilliant, isn't it? The size of that for thousands of people. :rolleyes: Nobody in their right mind would wait for that bus to head back into Dublin because they'd use the Luas.

However, I'm happy enough to agree to disagree if some of ye want to say that Dundrum has great public transport. I hate that place so, so much and avoid it if at all possible. It has rightly buggered up lovely Ballinteer, which is what we are talking about here, no?

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Do you mean something like this covered stop, with RTPI?
https://goo.gl/maps/ozmMM8vUA2F2

It's about a 200m walk down a slight incline from the cinema entrance.

Which is served by 14 buses terminating at Dundrum (with the exception of the hourly 44). Big deal. Turn around and look at the main stop across the road, or the next stop on Ballinteer Road.

You don't seem to get what I am saying.

Go to any big shopping centre across the water and they are required to provide an on-site bus station as part of the planning process.

This is what I am thinking of (Westfield in London):
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Westfield+London/@51.5087063,-0.2245388,3a,37.5y,117.56h,89.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suxv9RYw2tfQcN70MCy03vg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Duxv9RYw2tfQcN70MCy03vg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D40.463959%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x48760fd9a17c9f4d:0xe252903445e7660c!6m1!1e1

No effort was made when the Dundrum centre was being built to incorporate public transport into it, and thereby encourage people not to use their cars. People simply aren't going to be incentivised to use the bus if it doesn't bring them to the door - that's the reality.

The planning for the centre, be it roads or bus infrastructure was appalling - and that becomes glaringly obvious as Christmas approaches.

Red Alert

I had a good look at the lights at the woodpark exit - they're either moving the existing pedestrian lights or adding a repeater for both sides, but there's definitely no T-junction signalling there.

Separately, I think Dundrum town centre has been let get away with un-community like behaviour for far too long. Their traffic management inside the centre causes a large number of problems for those wishing to drive by it and not go into it. The community aspect of the centre as another posted has mentioned has basically been shelved indefinitely. It's also clear that the LUAS P&R is being used by centre customers and staff who want to park there all day, which impedes use of that car park for its intended purpose.

LXFlyer

bronn wrote: »

I can only think of the 14, 75 (gah!) and 44/b that serve Dundrum village. Certainly can't think of six routes but if you know them, fair play.

There is a huge area of Dublin 16 that has no bus and it's a decent walk to get to the shops in Ballinteer before you could link up with one, especially if you live in Kingston, Ticknock Park, Pine Valley etc. Pretty much all those people will take the car if they want to get to Dundrum and yes, they will pay for park & ride in Balally if they want the Luas. I don't, I take my bike, but not everyone has that option. You certainly don't have it if you want to bring the kids or want to do your shopping.

Dundrum Town Centre was supposed to be exactly that. A Town Centre with a portion given back to the local community for the library, community meetings, creche etc etc. Never happened - actually it wasn't built. All of that was supposed to be on the site of the old shopping centre along with the hotel. The bus lanes were put in but were never used and are now decommissioned. So, you've got quite a lot people in the local area who just want to go about their usual business but who now have to contend with thousands of cars pouring off the M50, down that poxy Ballinteer Road and into Dundrum.

People just don't have the option of Dublin bus which serves the shopping centre. Not near it, not in Dundrum village, not sort of in the general vicinity of it, the actual shopping centre. It's the biggest in the country and it has no buses. That's plural. Buses. It needs lots of them, frequently, from lots of different directions, that have priority access and have decent bus stops. If it had that, Ballinteer wouldn't be the total traffic hell-hole that it has become.

The Square in Tallaght has eight routes that go to it. It has the Luas at it. It has the N81 running along side it. At least you have options. Dundrum has a Luas from the city near it. It has a 75 bus that you can get once in a blue bloody moon sort of near it. It has the 14 with a solitary exposed stop near Dundrum church. The 44/b (again, very infrequent) stops on the Sandyford side. Dreadful planning and again, no surprise that all this was investigated by the Mahon Tribunal.

Thanks for linking to that, Rainy Day. It's a perfect example of how bad it is. That's the stop for the 14 / 44 as it leaves Dundrum, heading into town. Brilliant, isn't it? The size of that for thousands of people. :rolleyes: Nobody in their right mind would wait for that bus to head back into Dublin because they'd use the Luas.

However, I'm happy enough to agree to disagree if some of ye want to say that Dundrum has great public transport. I hate that place so, so much and avoid it if at all possible. It has rightly buggered up lovely Ballinteer, which is what we are talking about here, no?

I don't agree that people don't have the option of public transport - many do, but it's not as conveniently provided as it should be for a centre of that size. Some of the routes (such as the 17 and 61) leave people at least 1 km away at Uncle Tom's Cabin or on the Upper Churchtown Road.

As I say I find it laughable that some people seem to view the public transport set up in Dundrum as in line with best practice.

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

Which is served by 14 buses terminating at Dundrum (with the exception of the hourly 44). Big deal. Turn around and look at the main stop across the road, or the next stop on Ballinteer Road.

You don't seem to get what I am saying.

Go to any big shopping centre across the water and they are required to provide an on-site bus station as part of the planning process.

This is what I am thinking of (Westfield in London):
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Westfield+London/@51.5087063,-0.2245388,3a,37.5y,117.56h,89.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suxv9RYw2tfQcN70MCy03vg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Duxv9RYw2tfQcN70MCy03vg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D40.463959%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x48760fd9a17c9f4d:0xe252903445e7660c!6m1!1e1

No effort was made when the Dundrum centre was being built to incorporate public transport into it, and thereby encourage people not to use their cars. People simply aren't going to be incentivised to use the bus if it doesn't bring them to the door - that's the reality.

The planning for the centre, be it roads or bus infrastructure was appalling - and that becomes glaringly obvious as Christmas approaches.

Lads, I'm really not sure what more you need in terms of stops. If the stop across the road isn't enough, sure you can always shelter under the three nice porches at that stop, or stop into the pub, or stay in the shelter across the road and nip across using RTPI.

Yes, perhaps it might have been a better approach to bring the buses right into the centre, like the Square - but the Square serves a very different demographic. I'm not at all sure there is much of a market for more bus services to Dundrum at all.

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Lads, I'm really not sure what more you need in terms of stops. If the stop across the road isn't enough, sure you can always shelter under the three nice porches at that stop, or stop into the pub, or stay in the shelter across the road and nip across using RTPI.

Yes, perhaps it might have been a better approach to bring the buses right into the centre, like the Square - but the Square serves a very different demographic. I'm not at all sure there is much of a market for more bus services to Dundrum at all.

I'm finding it very difficult to take you seriously.

I very much doubt that the owners of those businesses would be too happy at having their entrances blocked all the time.

And as for using the bus shelter across the road, do you normally wait for a bus across the road from your own bus stop and then nip across the road when it comes? Get real - that's nonsensical.

As to your final comment, are you seriously suggesting that people going to Dundrum Town Centre are a demographic that won't use a bus????

You cannot possibly think that, for example, having the 17 and 61 stop over 1km away is going to attract customers from places along those routes in any large numbers?

The lack of proper bus facilities on site at the centre is a contributing factor to the traffic problems in the area - if you want to get people in large numbers to use public transport to a shopping centre, you have to provide bus facilities that are on site.

It should have been a basic planning condition, but wasn't.

bronn

If the stop across the road isn't enough, sure you can always shelter under the three nice porches at that stop, or stop into the pub, or stay in the shelter across the road and nip across using RTPI.

Yes, perhaps it might have been a better approach to bring the buses right into the centre, like the Square - but the Square serves a very different demographic. I'm not at all sure there is much of a market for more bus services to Dundrum at all.

That's like, oh my god, Hill! Air! So lollers. Shelter under a few porches. My Uggs will be destroyed! I see now why there's no public transport. It's not bad planning - Daddy was so right about that Tribunal - it's demographics. With buses people from Dublin 15 or... Wicklow (that's a place, right?) might be able to, like, get in? Harvey Nics shares would plummet faster than Síomha's weight when she was on her cleanse. In fairness, she did end up looking totes amazing in those Isabel Marant skinny jeans. Bitch. We all know her "cleanse" was liqui-lax. She wouldn't cough for, like, a month? :D

ETA: Nice job,Ballinteer Road. Nice job. Perfect bottle neck created.

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

The report conveniently ignored Woodpark when referencing that junction and keeps referring to The Heights, which is much smaller and used to be just one road in Woodpark. The Heights estate was a field between Woodpark and Kingston (itself just a field back in the day when I was a but a chizler). The "Heights" field had a substantial number of homes crammed into it and became The Heights estate. However, Woodpark is there too and it is significantly bigger than College Park by quite a ways. Now, I could be a total sceptic and have a very jaundiced view of the planning and motivations behind the planning decisions in the area (hello, "two by four club" members) but I wonder might there possibly have been someone with significant political pull who lives in College Park? :P

what?? while they got it wrong you got it wrong too, there is no such thing as "the heights estate" the heights is a road in woodpark with other roads coming off it..... yes there used to be a field there but now the field is the brehonfield road and there are some houses built in two patches along there, not a new estate, just a few new houses along the road.

I would say in the long run that the road from woodpark onto ballinteer avenue will be closed off to stop the rat running which is a danger in the estate.

RainyDay

bronn wrote: »

That's like, oh my god, Hill! Air! So lollers. Shelter under a few porches. My Uggs will be destroyed! I see now why there's no public transport. It's not bad planning - Daddy was so right about that Tribunal - it's demographics. With buses people from Dublin 15 or... Wicklow (that's a place, right?) might be able to, like, get in? Harvey Nics shares would plummet faster than Síomha's weight when she was on her cleanse. In fairness, she did end up looking totes amazing in those Isabel Marant skinny jeans. Bitch. We all know her "cleanse" was liqui-lax. She wouldn't cough for, like, a month? :D

I can't quite work out whether you're laughing at me or with me, but either way, it is a work of genius - fair play.

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm finding it very difficult to take you seriously.

I very much doubt that the owners of those businesses would be too happy at having their entrances blocked all the time.

And as for using the bus shelter across the road, do you normally wait for a bus across the road from your own bus stop and then nip across the road when it comes? Get real - that's nonsensical.

As to your final comment, are you seriously suggesting that people going to Dundrum Town Centre are a demographic that won't use a bus????

You cannot possibly think that, for example, having the 17 and 61 stop over 1km away is going to attract customers from places along those routes in any large numbers?

The lack of proper bus facilities on site at the centre is a contributing factor to the traffic problems in the area - if you want to get people in large numbers to use public transport to a shopping centre, you have to provide bus facilities that are on site.

It should have been a basic planning condition, but wasn't.

Why do you think the LocalLink bus service from a few years back failed to catch on?

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Why do you think the LocalLink bus service from a few years back failed to catch on?

Very simple:

1) It had no through ticketing with LUAS, so people had to pay twice, which meant that it would cost more than using the 14 or 16 to/from the city for anyone in Ballinteer.

2) For 90% of the route it operated alongside an established Dublin Bus route that operates at a minimum of every 30 minutes (the 75) and also, at the time, the 14, 14a and 48a between Ballinteer and Dundrum. Why would people wait for it when there was a more frequent DB service, particularly if they had a prepaid DB ticket?

In summary - the wrong route and complete lack of integration with other services.

bronn

greenbicycle wrote: »

what?? while they got it wrong you got it wrong too, there is no such thing as "the heights estate" the heights is a road in woodpark with other roads coming off it..... yes there used to be a field there but now the field is the brehonfield road and there are some houses built in two patches along there, not a new estate, just a few new houses along the road.

I would say in the long run that the road from woodpark onto ballinteer avenue will be closed off to stop the rat running which is a danger in the estate.

Yikes. I was only following the description in the report. I don't know what else to call those 60+ houses/appartments along there (which is more than a "few houses"). Is saying, "The Heights Estate" so dreadful? Even though each block has "The Heights" on a sign outside it? I don't consider them as part of Woodpark but maybe that's a mortal sin or something. Anyway, I apologise if you were offended by what I said. Going forward, I will endeavour to ensure that DLRCoCo and the wider community are aware not to use such separatist language. In the spirit of inclusivity we should refer to our neighbours as "dwellers who reside in those new(ish) houses on that former field what is adjacent to The Heights in Woodpark". :pac:

I don't reckon they could close off the exit to Ballinteer Avenue from Woodpark. It's too big an estate to have only one way in and can you imagine the chaos if everyone was forced to use the Ballinteer Road entry / exit? I've often wondered why they never put traffic calming in along the Avenue, Heights and Rise. Not necessarily speedbumps but maybe alternating lanes or something. There is a report on the submissions about all these roadworks and it mentions Woodpark rat-running as follows:

Rat running through the Woodpark Estate is outside the remit of the Ballinteer Road Traffic Safety Improvements Scheme.

In any event the level of rat running through Woodpark Estate would appear to be relative low.

They have an all day traffic survey, taken on 14th September 2014, which kind of supports this. But it is only a one day survey.

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

Yikes. I was only following the description in the report. I don't know what else to call those 60+ houses/appartments along there (which is more than a "few houses").

Yikes back at you! I was just telling you that they are not called "the heights estate", we all know what the report meant (they were talking about the road, The Heights, Woodpark") but you picked them up on it so I just did the same to you because you were equally wrong. There are about 12 newer semindetached houses on a road called the Heath which is a turn off the road called the Heights and then there are four blocks of three story buildings which are off another two roads, one is called the Dale and I cant remember the name of the other road. None of them are called the Heights, they are all roads connected to the Heights which was always part of woodpark since back in he 1970s when woodpark was built.

anyway, I just wanted to set the record straight not get someone all upset about it!

there are three entrances out of woodpark so closing off one would not be an issue and is something many residents have asked for because despite the report from the survey you highlighted the rat running is a big issue. Traffic calkming might not be a bad idea but even the recent plan to introduce 30K zones in housing estates doesnt include woodpark.

I would say watch this space about that road getting closed off.

greenbicycle

greenbicycle wrote: »

one is called the Dale and I cant remember the name of the other road.

Ah the name just came to me, its "the Copse"! That was going to annoy me all day till I remembered!

bronn

Oh man. I was actually making the exact same point as you but you're not seeing it or perhaps I wasn't clear. I accept it's probably my fault because I was trying to be funny. College Park gets lights but "the Heights Estate" doesn't? In other words, Alan Shatter lives in College Park but Paul Murphy lives in one of those newish apartments off the Heights? See? :pac: Anyway, my fault. Truce.

I always call those new houses The Heights Estate because to me, they're not part of Woodpark and nobody knows what to call them. I could have sworn they all said The Heights outside them because I remember wondering how the hell anyone could find a gaff in there. They mustn't though - just me being nosy and wondering where Murphy lives.

For over twenty years I lived in Woodpark and my parents bought off the plans there in 1970. When Woodpark was built, The Heights was to be the original M50. That's what that weird little dead end roundabout at The Heights / The Rise was for. Way back then, Woodpark was pretty much in the countryside and the old Woodpark House still existed (where Ballinteer Court is now). All the roads in Woodpark reference the original house. The Drive was the drive up to the house. The Court was where the courtyard was. The Glen where the little glen was. The Heights was the highest part of the estate etc etc etc. My Dad still has the original land plans for Woodpark and you can see this potential road mapped in. It was abandoned as a plan by the very early 1970's because they realised it was too small and Ballinteer alone was getting bigger. By the time the 1980's rolled around, a "dual carriageway" plan was on the cards. When Kingston estate was finished, a motorway near it was proposed and the rest is history. Kingston was nearly history that day when the rock blasting for the M50 went terribly wrong.

Rat-running really wasn't too much of problem when we lived there but drivers speeding through the estate certainly was. Some people treat the Avenue, Heights and Rise like an F1 track. Closing off one entrance to Ballinteer Avenue might slow people down but I don't reckon it would. Rat-runners will just use the other exit. It's in the nature of the rat aka incredibly frustrated drivers. The residents should push for it though. Worked for Kingston and Pine Valley even though there was holy war.

LXFlyer

I'd imagine that if you were to close any exit, it would be the one from The Avenue to Ballinteer Avenue - at least residents from that side of Woodpark could still get out onto Ballinteer Road. Closing the other exit (from The Rise) would leave people with too long a detour.

I'd have to admit that I'm surprised that ramps haven't been put in yet.