Balinteer Road - Changes coming..

LXFlyer

bronn wrote: »

Oh man. I was actually making the exact same point as you but you're not seeing it or perhaps I wasn't clear. I accept it's probably my fault because I was trying to be funny. College Park gets lights but "the Heights Estate" doesn't? In other words, Alan Shatter lives in College Park but Paul Murphy lives in one of those newish apartments off the Heights? See? :pac: Anyway, my fault. Truce.

I always call those new houses The Heights Estate because to me, they're not part of Woodpark and nobody knows what to call them. I could have sworn they all said The Heights outside them because I remember wondering how the hell anyone could find a gaff in there. They mustn't though - just me being nosy and wondering where Murphy lives.

For over twenty years I lived in Woodpark and my parents bought off the plans there in 1970. When Woodpark was built, The Heights was to be the original M50. That's what that weird little dead end roundabout at The Heights / The Rise was for. Way back then, Woodpark was pretty much in the countryside and the old Woodpark House still existed (where Ballinteer Court is now). All the roads in Woodpark reference the original house. The Drive was the drive up to the house. The Court was where the courtyard was. The Glen where the little glen was. The Heights was the highest part of the estate etc etc etc. My Dad still has the original land plans for Woodpark and you can see this potential road mapped in. It was abandoned as a plan by the very early 1970's because they realised it was too small and Ballinteer alone was getting bigger. By the time the 1980's rolled around, a "dual carriageway" plan was on the cards. When Kingston estate was finished, a motorway near it was proposed and the rest is history. Kingston was nearly history that day when the rock blasting for the M50 went terribly wrong.

Rat-running really wasn't too much of problem when we lived there but drivers speeding through the estate certainly was. Some people treat the Avenue, Heights and Rise like an F1 track. Closing off one entrance to Ballinteer Avenue might slow people down but I don't reckon it would. Rat-runners will just use the other exit. It's in the nature of the rat aka incredibly frustrated drivers. The residents should push for it though. Worked for Kingston and Pine Valley even though there was holy war.

Thanks for the history lesson on the estate - much appreciated.


As a quick aside, what nearly happened Kingston? What went wrong with the rock blasting?

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

I'd have to admit that I'm surprised that ramps haven't been put in yet.

Roads policy has moved on from ramps, given that they don't generally work in reducing speed, and tend to wreck cars. Chicanes, road narrowings and bends, trees all work more effectively to reduce speed.

bronn wrote: »

For over twenty years I lived in Woodpark and my parents bought off the plans there in 1970. When Woodpark was built, The Heights was to be the original M50. That's what that weird little dead end roundabout at The Heights / The Rise was for. Way back then, Woodpark was pretty much in the countryside and the old Woodpark House still existed (where Ballinteer Court is now). All the roads in Woodpark reference the original house. The Drive was the drive up to the house. The Court was where the courtyard was. The Glen where the little glen was. The Heights was the highest part of the estate etc etc etc. My Dad still has the original land plans for Woodpark and you can see this potential road mapped in. It was abandoned as a plan by the very early 1970's because they realised it was too small and Ballinteer alone was getting bigger. By the time the 1980's rolled around, a "dual carriageway" plan was on the cards. When Kingston estate was finished, a motorway near it was proposed and the rest is history. Kingston was nearly history that day when the rock blasting for the M50 went terribly wrong.

Thanks - very interesting. You might see if you could scan and post the original plans for Woodpark - would be very interesting for local historians and geographers.

lxflyer wrote: »

Very simple:

1) It had no through ticketing with LUAS, so people had to pay twice, which meant that it would cost more than using the 14 or 16 to/from the city for anyone in Ballinteer.

2) For 90% of the route it operated alongside an established Dublin Bus route that operates at a minimum of every 30 minutes (the 75) and also, at the time, the 14, 14a and 48a between Ballinteer and Dundrum. Why would people wait for it when there was a more frequent DB service, particularly if they had a prepaid DB ticket?

In summary - the wrong route and complete lack of integration with other services.

And there was silly old me thinking that most people who have a car tend to bring their car shopping with them. If only we'd had more integrated ticketing and bus shelters, all those cars would go away. Good to know...

markpb

RainyDay wrote: »

And there was silly old me thinking that most people who have a car tend to bring their car shopping with them. If only we'd had more integrated ticketing and bus shelters, all those cars would go away. Good to know...

Silly old you indeed. I've been to Dundrum countless times over the last few years and most of those trips weren't to Tesco to do my weekly shopping or to Argos to pick up a TV or two. Sometimes I went to meet people, other times to the cinema or restaurants and other times to pick up presents. Very few of them resulted in me not being able to rely on the Luas or my two feet to get me home.

However, that was when I lived on the Luas line (in Sandyford) or a short walk away (Wyckham bypass). Now that I'm slightly further away (just across the M50) my options are an hourly bus service or drive + Luas so I always drive to Dundrum.

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

And there was silly old me thinking that most people who have a car tend to bring their car shopping with them. If only we'd had more integrated ticketing and bus shelters, all those cars would go away. Good to know...

There really is no need to be so flippant. It is a serious topic. I don't think it is too much to ask that proper infrastructure is put in place when these developments are being built - in Dundrum Town Centre's case there was no provision made at all. Added to that it was put on a site that had poor road access - Ballinteer Road being not really fit for the purpose of being the main feeder road to the centre from the M50.

Clearly you don't appear to use the bus, but it's perfectly possible to go and do retail shopping using public transport. It would become far more attractive to people who have the choice of driving or taking the bus if the buses operated onto the centre site to a bus station adjacent to a centre entrance - that's normal and best practice. You seem to constantly ignore that - is it too much to expect that best practice designs be used?

And as markpb states, people are not necessarily buying bulky items, nor are they always going to the centres to shop - they could be visiting the cinema or a restaurant.

You appear to have a very myopic view on this subject - personally I don't drive so I use the bus every time I visit the centre. It does annoy me that I have to walk to an unsheltered bus stop and get wet when it rains rather than having a purpose built bus station on site.

bronn

RainyDay wrote: »

...Thanks - very interesting. You might see if you could scan and post the original plans for Woodpark - would be very interesting for local historians and geographers...

Sure thing. It is interesting to see it, especially when you see all the old farms that were around. It's a very old area, has standing stones and everything. That's where all the "Brehon" street names come from. There was a standing stone at the entrance to Kingston but the builders demolished it. We have pictures of it somewhere so I'll see if I can find them too. There's another one on the Brehonfield Road (which we still call "the Green Route") which has been protected, thankfully. They all line(d) up with the Druid's Chair in the Brehon's Chair estate.

lxflyer wrote: »

As a quick aside, what nearly happened Kingston? What went wrong with the rock blasting?

We were living in Kingston then. One day, after the all clear sounded, there was this ferocious explosion. You could feel the thump from it. The whole house shook violently and then there was total mayhem. House alarms were going off, car alarms, there were sirens and people shouting. I ran across to Kingston Grove where everyone was standing in the street looking a bit dazed. A few houses had no windows left, a few had tiles blown off the roof and there was debris everywhere. The same over on Kingston Lawn and Kingston Rise too. On Kington Avenue and there bits of tree scattered all about the place. At the doctor's surgery there was a huge chunk of tree root and trunk, just lying on the path.

Apparently, they were burning off the cordite after the usual blast and somehow whatever extra explosives they had left over also accidentally got chucked into the fire. Ka-bla-mo! As the explosion happened on the surface it was catastrophic. One guard who was standing near the fire ruptured both his eardrums. Miraculously, nobody was killed, especially from flying glass. How nobody got hit with debris that day we'll never know. Ascon and the blasting company fixed up all the damaged houses. The estate was promised nice walls of granite (considering they blasted it from our doorsteps) but, like everything else, it never happened and Kingston has no sound buffer between it and the M50 to this day.

dogmatix

I remember the day of the 'big blast'. A lot of the locals where not best pleased to say the least.

As for all of the road changes - would any of this be necessary if the dundrum town centre had never been built? One of the original arguments for the dundrum and wyckham bypasses was the long standing traffic congestion in and around ballinteer from the late 1970's onwards. But as soon as the two bypasses are built they start putting up housing on the land beside the new roads and plonk an unwanted shopping mall also.

In the early 1990's a document was circulated proposing that much of the area now buried under the town centre would be a park with some commercial and retail development. I'm not sure if it was a private or DLRCC proposal. But instead the DTC was eventually shoehorned into the site - I had heard that DLRCC had noted the valuable rates that dublin south CC where getting from such places as The Square and Liffey Valley and said "me too!".

bronn

dogmatix wrote: »

As for all of the road changes - would any of this be necessary if the dundrum town centre had never been built?

Ah, well, that's the multi-billion €uro question, isn't it? The more you look a the the so called "planning" for the entire Dundrum / Ballinteer area, the more you have to wonder how the hell they ever got away with building the Dundrum Town Centre (DTC). It has destroyed Dundrum and when the DTC got flooded a few years back, it was almost like nature was taking revenge on what had been done to the place.

It's hard to say how much of the problem is caused by the DTC and how much is caused by atrocious planning. It's like a perfect storm of bad decisions. During rush hours, it's commuters who have the place wrecked. During the weekend, it's the DTC. In the run up to Christmas, it's both. From now on, the queues to get into the DTC will be back up the M50 and have brought the Dundrum by-pass and Wyckham Way to a standstill.

Ballinteer has changed beyond all recognition and not for the better. Even the old Ballinteer Road is mostly gone and replaced with the complete fúck-up we have today. Proper planning would've ensured facilities for the thousands of people who have settled here. Instead, every bit of land they could squeeze something into was grabbed. Look at Ticknock there or the "plans" for Harold's Grange Road where they're piling even more houses in. They've learnt nothing from the bad Celtic Tiger years. They're building away and not one thing is done to help the local area. Where the christ are all those people going to shop? Play? Go to school? Get a bus? Get into town? Pretty much all of them and all other commuters and shoppers are all trying to fit onto the Ballinteer Road at some point. For a lot of locals, they're in their cars just to get to basic amenities. It's no wonder people are pissed off with the Council. The shít that has gone on here for years is just unreal.

Larbre34

bronn wrote: »

Ballinteer has changed beyond all recognition and not for the better. Even the old Ballinteer Road is mostly gone and replaced with the complete fúck-up we have today. Proper planning would've ensured facilities for the thousands of people who have settled here. Instead, every bit of land they could squeeze something into was grabbed. Look at Ticknock there or the "plans" for Harold's Grange Road where they're piling even more houses in. They've learnt nothing from the bad Celtic Tiger years. They're building away and not one thing is done to help the local area. Where the christ are all those people going to shop? Play? Go to school? Get a bus? Get into town? Pretty much all of them and all other commuters and shoppers are all trying to fit onto the Ballinteer Road at some point. For a lot of locals, they're in their cars just to get to basic amenities. It's no wonder people are pissed off with the Council. The shít that has gone on here for years is just unreal.

Umm, Dundrum Town Centre....? Just a thought.

Its a bit of chicken and egg. You seem like a person who would like to keep Dundrum and Ballinteer as the sleepy suburb it was back in the 80s, where conkers falling off the trees was the highlight of the year. The whole City has had to bear some level of change, such is a growing economy, and personally I think Dundrum / Ballinteer has disproportionately benefitted over other neighbourhoods. It has effectively a brand new road network, a light rail service, motorway access to the whole country nearby, a magnificent park and a few smaller ones nearby,an award winning destination shopping centre and as for schools, in the late 90s they couldnt fill the ones there were there......

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

I always call those new houses The Heights Estate because to me, they're not part of Woodpark and nobody knows what to call them. I could have sworn they all said The Heights outside them because I remember wondering how the hell anyone could find a gaff in there. They mustn't though - just me being nosy and wondering where Murphy lives.

Everyone just calls it Woodpark or the apartments at the back of Woodpark cause thats what they are anyway, truce as you said! Just didnt want wrong info out there in internet land!

I have a similar background to yourself with parents buying in the area way back 50 or 40 years ago. I knew all about the reasons behind names of all the estates around there most of which is very intersting and nice that they have some meaning.

For anyone who is interested like rainyday, you can see maps going way back on the OSI website, very interesting to look at and see what Dundrum and Ballinteer used to look like.

In the same vein as that for people who are into local history and geography and use facebook, there are Facebook pages that talk about the history and the estates and even the people who used to be around. the Dundrum one is called "historical dundrum" and the Ballinteer one is "ballinteer in times past" both very interesing reads with plenty of photos and maps and stories about both areas. There is even a "histroical Stillorgan" which is equally interesting.

For someone outside of the area it must be hard to imagine what it usd to be like because it is very very different now. there was always traffic going through Dundrum but what we have now is crazy!

dogmatix

greenbicycle wrote: »

In the same vein as that for people who are into local history and geography and use facebook, there are Facebook pages that talk about the history and the estates and even the people who used to be around. the Dundrum one is called "historical dundrum" and the Ballinteer one is "ballinteer in times past" both very interesing reads with plenty of photos and maps and stories about both areas. There is even a "histroical Stillorgan" which is equally interesting.

+1. Those facebook sites are excellent resources for anyone interested in Ballinteer/Dundrum.

bronn

I never knew about those Facebook pages. Thanks!

Look what I found online. Pity it doesn't show the old Paddy's and Alonzi's but still - look at the state of the place. :pac: Wouldn't recognise it now. Went in to get the paper not to long ago only to find spar has shut down. How did that happen? I'd have thought that place was a goldmine.



I dunno, for some reason, people think that because the M50 and DTC is built, it's the land of milk and honey for Dundrum AND Ballinteer. Fair enough - if that's your opinion, you're certainly entitled to it. I disagree with it. I don't mind change and everywhere has to change eventually. But planned change is what should be implemented, not uncontrolled urban sprawl.

LXFlyer

dogmatix wrote: »

As for all of the road changes - would any of this be necessary if the dundrum town centre had never been built? One of the original arguments for the dundrum and wyckham bypasses was the long standing traffic congestion in and around ballinteer from the late 1970's onwards. But as soon as the two bypasses are built they start putting up housing on the land beside the new roads and plonk an unwanted shopping mall also.

There would have had to be some major road changes in the area, Dundrum Town Centre or not. Anyone who sat on a bus during the morning peak leaving Ballinteer (back in the day before the 14/14a were extended to Dundrum) will remember the long traffic jams that used to back up along the Ballinteer Road from Dundrum.

But for the wonderful female garda who used to do point duty every morning at the Ballinteer Road/Dundrum Main Street junction I think most people would have lost the will to live.

bronn wrote: »

Ah, well, that's the multi-billion €uro question, isn't it? The more you look a the the so called "planning" for the entire Dundrum / Ballinteer area, the more you have to wonder how the hell they ever got away with building the Dundrum Town Centre (DTC). It has destroyed Dundrum and when the DTC got flooded a few years back, it was almost like nature was taking revenge on what had been done to the place.

It's hard to say how much of the problem is caused by the DTC and how much is caused by atrocious planning. It's like a perfect storm of bad decisions. During rush hours, it's commuters who have the place wrecked. During the weekend, it's the DTC. In the run up to Christmas, it's both. From now on, the queues to get into the DTC will be back up the M50 and have brought the Dundrum by-pass and Wyckham Way to a standstill.

Ballinteer has changed beyond all recognition and not for the better. Even the old Ballinteer Road is mostly gone and replaced with the complete fúck-up we have today. Proper planning would've ensured facilities for the thousands of people who have settled here. Instead, every bit of land they could squeeze something into was grabbed. Look at Ticknock there or the "plans" for Harold's Grange Road where they're piling even more houses in. They've learnt nothing from the bad Celtic Tiger years. They're building away and not one thing is done to help the local area. Where the christ are all those people going to shop? Play? Go to school? Get a bus? Get into town? Pretty much all of them and all other commuters and shoppers are all trying to fit onto the Ballinteer Road at some point. For a lot of locals, they're in their cars just to get to basic amenities. It's no wonder people are pissed off with the Council. The shít that has gone on here for years is just unreal.

I don't necessarily think Ballinteer has got worse than it was - it has just changed, as has most of Dublin. It's still a nice area with nice parks/green spaces, shops, and has most of the amenities anyone needs within a short walking distance.

Yes Ballinteer Road has changed, but that was inevitable with the M50, regardless of whether the centre was built or not. That being said, the Centre has certainly exacerbated the traffic on that road - and as I've posted before, I still believe that the centre should never have been built in a location where there was no rapid access to/from the M50 and integrated public transport facilities on site. But in typical Irish fashion, that never happened.

Nor are people on Harolds Grange Road completely isolated, I do think you're exaggerating this a bit - the 16 bus is only a 10 minute walk away through Kingston. They are also far more likely to use the top of Ballinteer Avenue to get to schools/shops than Ballinteer Road. In time there may have to be bus route alterations to serve that area better.

bronn

lxflyer wrote: »

I do think you're exaggerating this a bit - the 16 bus is only a 10 minute walk away through Kingston.

:pac: Now, who was it that complained about the walk to the 75 from the DTC?? Trust me, walking from those new gaffs at Ticknock Park to the 16 (and vice versa) is a right pain in the arse, ditto for those in Kingston Hall and their eventual new neighbours along that road. One thing about the 114 at Ticknock, you get a great view out over Dublin from upstairs. I use it to get to the Luas sometimes as it's better than trying to get to Balally. At least you have some chance of getting on the Luas at Sandyford. Alas, you have to get through Sandyford Industrial Estate which on occasion can suffer a total meltdown. 114 could do with being a bit more frequent though.

I think I'd go across the Dublin Mountains and back around to avoid Ballinteer Road / Avenue and Dundrum, especially during commuting hours. Saw someone nearly get walloped at that roundabout at Wesley today. A car booted up the righthand lane to the roundabout, did the loop around it and missed a car turning out of Wesley by a fraction of an inch. The sooner that crappy roundabout it taken out, the better.

I can't find a rule of the road that says you can't use a roundabout that way but it just seems wrong, not to mention very dangerous to do it there.

LXFlyer

bronn wrote: »

:pac: Now, who was it that complained about the walk to the 75 from the DTC?? Trust me, walking from those new gaffs at Ticknock Park to the 16 (and vice versa) is a right pain in the arse, ditto for those in Kingston Hall and their eventual new neighbours along that road. One thing about the 114 at Ticknock, you get a great view out over Dublin from upstairs. I use it to get to the Luas sometimes as it's better than trying to get to Balally. At least you have some chance of getting on the Luas at Sandyford. Alas, you have to get through Sandyford Industrial Estate which on occasion can suffer a total meltdown. 114 could do with being a bit more frequent though.

I think I'd go across the Dublin Mountains and back around to avoid Ballinteer Road / Avenue and Dundrum, especially during commuting hours. Saw someone nearly get walloped at that roundabout at Wesley today. A car booted up the righthand lane to the roundabout, did the loop around it and missed a car turning out of Wesley by a fraction of an inch. The sooner that crappy roundabout it taken out, the better.

I can't find a rule of the road that says you can't use a roundabout that way but it just seems wrong, not to mention very dangerous to do it there.

I wasn't referring to Ticknock, but rather Harold's Grange Rd. That's a different situation on the far side of the M50.

But there is a difference between commuting and people going to/from a retail centre.

Most people don't mind a short walk as part of their commute, but when it comes to travelling with bags etc then that will change.

Very few people have public transport directly on their doorstep.

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

Went in to get the paper not to long ago only to find spar has shut down. How did that happen? I'd have thought that place was a goldmine.
.

It closed down ages ago, at least a year ago i would say. Along with the newsagent in superquinn.

bronn

lxflyer wrote: »

I wasn't referring to Ticknock, but rather Harold's Grange Rd. That's a different situation on the far side of the M50.

I was though, and you were replying to me and said I was exaggerating. I said, "look at Ticknock there and the "plans" for Harold's Grange Road."

Harold's Grange Road is a tiny road with no footpath along the side and they are (and will) be building more houses and apartments. One builder already did a sneaky land grab and pushed the houses so close to the road there would have been no room for any future (potential, maybe) footpath or road widening. Luckily, he was caught but the result for the new residents is no garden and no permission to use their back door.

Some people who live in Kingston Hall already park their cars in Kingston Estate because they can't get in or out of the place with traffic. Children from there, from Ticknock and from the top of Kingston have a long walk to school and it's fairly miserable for them coming home, especially in winter. They're only small and it is quite a pull up those hills. Imagine you're 9, have a schoolbag and it's raining. My nieces and nephews do it all the time because their parents want them to walk to school but when it's really wet and miserable, they have to be driven from Ticknock which is more cars on the road.They wanted to get the kids into the educate together school near Tiernan's but getting there was a logistical nightmare, so plans were abandoned. People are trying to organise car pooling but it's like trying to herd cats. Ballinteer national school is already bulging and there are more and more children coming into the area. St Mary's at Lamb's Cross was full I think - would've been great with the 114 (no footpaths).

I didn't say a bus should be on the doorstep but having a route a bit closer to all these new builds, that actually goes nearer to Ballinteer shops & school and Dundrum would be great. I reckon a new Local Link would be warmly welcomed. In fact, they could put in a bus gate at the top of Kingston to allow it through. It could zig zag it's way from Ticknock Park, right down Harold's Grange (put in foothpaths!), right through Kingston, left down Brehonfield, right up Ballinteer Avenue, left down Broadford Road, right in behind St Attracta's (stick in another bus gate there), right through Ludford, left down to Balally Luas and back up again.

It'd be fantastic because it'd feed six schools, the shops in Ballinteer and DTC, and the Luas. If the plans are granted (and I'm not sure if they have yet) that huge development of the nursing home and day care centre at Ticknock will also be catered for. They might even reopen the abandoned gym up there which would be brill. A small bus for a few thousand people - it's not asking too much, is it? Probably is, given the responses on this thread already.

It closed down ages ago, at least a year ago i would say. Along with the newsagent in superquinn.

A year ago? Bloody hell. They are in no rush to reopen it so. It must be missed by people in Woodpark. I wasn't too surprised when the one at Superquinn/valu went as that shop has turned into a glorified newsagents with prices to match. It has the most bizarre prices on things and you'll always get a laugh at their "special offers". Special!!! Buy three gala melons for €4.50!!! Or buy one for €1.

greenbicycle

Dont think you will ever see a bus route going through estates like that.its hard enough to drive cars through balinteer estate with cars parked along the side of the road, how would a bus get through?

In terms of the spar re opening,i believe they tried to get breda cahill to open another centra there but i dont think she was interested.

LXFlyer

bronn wrote: »

I was though, and you were replying to me and said I was exaggerating. I said, "look at Ticknock there and the "plans" for Harold's Grange Road."

Harold's Grange Road is a tiny road with no footpath along the side and they are (and will) be building more houses and apartments. One builder already did a sneaky land grab and pushed the houses so close to the road there would have been no room for any future (potential, maybe) footpath or road widening. Luckily, he was caught but the result for the new residents is no garden and no permission to use their back door.

Some people who live in Kingston Hall already park their cars in Kingston Estate because they can't get in or out of the place with traffic. Children from there, from Ticknock and from the top of Kingston have a long walk to school and it's fairly miserable for them coming home, especially in winter. They're only small and it is quite a pull up those hills. Imagine you're 9, have a schoolbag and it's raining. My nieces and nephews do it all the time because their parents want them to walk to school but when it's really wet and miserable, they have to be driven from Ticknock which is more cars on the road.They wanted to get the kids into the educate together school near Tiernan's but getting there was a logistical nightmare, so plans were abandoned. People are trying to organise car pooling but it's like trying to herd cats. Ballinteer national school is already bulging and there are more and more children coming into the area. St Mary's at Lamb's Cross was full I think - would've been great with the 114 (no footpaths).

I didn't say a bus should be on the doorstep but having a route a bit closer to all these new builds, that actually goes nearer to Ballinteer shops & school and Dundrum would be great. I reckon a new Local Link would be warmly welcomed. In fact, they could put in a bus gate at the top of Kingston to allow it through. It could zig zag it's way from Ticknock Park, right down Harold's Grange (put in foothpaths!), right through Kingston, left down Brehonfield, right up Ballinteer Avenue, left down Broadford Road, right in behind St Attracta's (stick in another bus gate there), right through Ludford, left down to Balally Luas and back up again.

It'd be fantastic because it'd feed six schools, the shops in Ballinteer and DTC, and the Luas. If the plans are granted (and I'm not sure if they have yet) that huge development of the nursing home and day care centre at Ticknock will also be catered for. They might even reopen the abandoned gym up there which would be brill. A small bus for a few thousand people - it's not asking too much, is it? Probably is, given the responses on this thread already.

I think you need to reduce your expectations - there are no bus routes like that operating anywhere in the city. There certainly won't be any bus operating through Kingston or Ludford. They will only be on the main roads. That sort of service simply would not be economic to operate.


There would probably be a case for, at the very least, re-routing the 44b through Ticknock Hill, and thus providing a link to/from Dundrum, but it would need an increase in frequency.

bronn

greenbicycle wrote: »

Dont think you will ever see a bus route going through estates like that.its hard enough to drive cars through balinteer estate with cars parked along the side of the road, how would a bus get through?

In terms of the spar re opening,i believe they tried to get breda cahill to open another centra there but i dont think she was interested.

No, not Ballinteer Estate, Ballinteer Avenue. Have the bus turn right off Brehonfield Road (near Ballinteer St John's GAA clubhouse) and up Ballinteer Ave, beside the church. Then turn left down Broadford Road. It'd only have to get through Kingston and Ludford on it's zig-zag route down. Yous are right, though. It'll never happen, more's the pity. It's all about making money as opposed to alleviating chronic traffic congestion. The whole city needs some sort of incentive to leave the bloody car at home and free the place up.

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

No, not Ballinteer Estate, Ballinteer Avenue. Have the bus turn right off Brehonfield Road (near Ballinteer St John's GAA clubhouse) and up Ballinteer Ave, beside the church. Then turn left down Broadford Road. It'd only have to get through Kingston and Ludford on it's zig-zag route down. Yous are right, though. It'll never happen, more's the pity. It's all about making money as opposed to alleviating chronic traffic congestion. The whole city needs some sort of incentive to leave the bloody car at home and free the place up.

Sorry, an s went missing of the end of estates in my post. I meant ballinteer estates as in all the estates you mentioned. It would never happen not because of money but mostly because of logistics.

LXFlyer

Agreed - none of those estates are suitable for a bus route.

dogmatix

bronn wrote: »

I never knew about those Facebook pages. Thanks!

Look what I found online. Pity it doesn't show the old Paddy's and Alonzi's but still - look at the state of the place. :pac: Wouldn't recognise it now. Went in to get the paper not to long ago only to find spar has shut down. How did that happen? I'd have thought that place was a goldmine.



I dunno, for some reason, people think that because the M50 and DTC is built, it's the land of milk and honey for Dundrum AND Ballinteer. Fair enough - if that's your opinion, you're certainly entitled to it. I disagree with it. I don't mind change and everywhere has to change eventually. But planned change is what should be implemented, not uncontrolled urban sprawl.

Alonzi's! Now there is a memory! I heard that he retired back to italy a number of years ago. Anyone remember Keoghs the butchers? Originally he was down near Meenans shops (on the site where Bhagwans is now) before moving up besides Spar (or Merry go-round as it was then). Now a bookies.

Sorry - going a bit of track here.

snor

Thread bringing back lots of memories! Yes, remember Keoghs well - was a video shop beside it. Also the bicycle shop - remember Alex there. Trendys hair salon. Also fond memories of Paddys. Remember they used to wear the navy shop keepers coats! Happy Days.

RainyDay

Some of the traffic problems have been exaggerated a bit here. Yes, it does get busy going down to DTC at peak time, between 2pm to 3.30pm on Saturdays and some Sundays. It gets particularly busy on wet weekends when parents run out of ideas.

But locals are generally cute enough to go down old Ballinteer Road and nip into the centre that side if necessary, or just bypass it all together if you prefer.

Yes, it might have been a good idea to have a bus stop adjacent to or in the centre with proper shelter, but I have serious doubts as to whether that would make a significant impact on the traffic.

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Yes, it might have been a good idea to have a bus stop adjacent to or in the centre with proper shelter, but I have serious doubts as to whether that would make a significant impact on the traffic.

The point is that it would make public transport a more attractive option to those who aren't on the LUAS line and who would otherwise drive.

It's academic because the centre is built, but it is an appalling indictment of the planning process in this country.

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

The point is that it would make public transport a more attractive option to those who aren't on the LUAS line and who would otherwise drive.

It's academic because the centre is built, but it is an appalling enditement of the planning process in this country.

Yes, it would make public transport more attractive, though the number of people who would switch would be fairly limited IMHO.

As for the 'appalling indictment' - a tad severe, no?

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Yes, it would make public transport more attractive, though the number of people who would switch would be fairly limited IMHO.

As for the 'appalling indictment' - a tad severe, no?

We will agree to disagree about that.

And I will stand by that comment.

That centre was built in a location with no on site public transport facilities, and which has appalling road access to it from the M50, through a residential area, and which causes major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas.

Are you seriously suggesting that it is a good location for the centre?

RainyDay

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that it is a good location for the centre?

I'm seriously suggesting that " appalling road access ... major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas" is an exaggeration

greenbicycle

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm seriously suggesting that " appalling road access ... major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas" is an exaggeration

I think you are wrong there Rainyday, sorry! the traffic is a nightmare, I know my planning is already planning on getting home early in order to avoid the horrendous traffic from Shop and Rock on this Thursday night.

we shouldnt have to plan the times that we get home because of awful traffic.

bucketybuck

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm seriously suggesting that " appalling road access ... major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas" is an exaggeration

But it isn't an exaggeration at all?

Can you suggest a similar sized shopping centre with such poor access routes?