Balinteer Road - Changes coming..

LXFlyer

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm seriously suggesting that " appalling road access ... major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas" is an exaggeration

Well then I suggest that you are living in a different world to the rest of us, with absolutely no concept of what would be deemed normally acceptable best practice for a centre of this size, and seem to be quite happy to settle for less than that.

RainyDay

bucketybuck wrote: »

But it isn't an exaggeration at all?

Can you suggest a similar sized shopping centre with such poor access routes?

Perhaps Liffey Valley, or the Square - all similar distances from the M50

lxflyer wrote: »

Well then I suggest that you are living in a different world to the rest of us, with absolutely no concept of what would be deemed normally acceptable best practice for a centre of this size, and seem to be quite happy to settle for less than that.

My 'different world' is living 10 minutes walk from DTC. I use those roads every weekend. I pass it every day, usually on a bike.

greenbicycle wrote: »

I think you are wrong there Rainyday, sorry! the traffic is a nightmare, I know my planning is already planning on getting home early in order to avoid the horrendous traffic from Shop and Rock on this Thursday night.

we shouldnt have to plan the times that we get home because of awful traffic.

Get on your green bicycle and you'll fly past it at any time.

RebelButtMunch

RainyDay wrote: »

Perhaps Liffey Valley, or the Square - all similar distances from the M50


My 'different world' is living 10 minutes walk from DTC. I use those roads every weekend. I pass it every day, usually on a bike.


Get on your green bicycle and you'll fly past it at any time.

The Square wouldn't be the same at all. I cant remember the last time traffic was backed up from The Square to the M50, where as its a weekly occurrence for Dundrum SC

greenbicycle

RainyDay wrote: »

Perhaps Liffey Valley, or the Square - all similar distances from the M50


My 'different world' is living 10 minutes walk from DTC. I use those roads every weekend. I pass it every day, usually on a bike.


Get on your green bicycle and you'll fly past it at any time.

your examples of liffey valley and the square are way off niether of them have just a one lane road going through residential areas both have fairly good infrastructure.

Why should we all be forced to use our bikes to get around? What a silly remark. perhaps you are blind to it all because you are just using your bike and are completely oblivious to the long queues of cars.

Is your different world in the direction of Ballinteer? or in another direction?

dogmatix

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm seriously suggesting that " appalling road access ... major congestion in the entire area on any wet weekend and in the run up to Christmas" is an exaggeration

Must disagree - I'm originally from the area and I am currently working in the DTC and I can confirm there is major traffic congestion at the weekends if there is wet weather and it is the xmas shopping / january sales time. And then now and again there is a crash or as in one incident a few years ago when the pay barrier at the tesco surface car park stopped working - then you get complete gridlock.

bucketybuck

RainyDay wrote: »

Perhaps Liffey Valley, or the Square - all similar distances from the M50

And all with far better access roads than DTC, you really just proved my point.

Superhorse

Grew up in Ballinteer and always knew the centre was completely unsuitable for the Dundrum/Ballinteer area and it would come to this. With the economy growing and a complete lack of forward thinking from the planners the area has turned into a disaster on any given weekend or around Xmas for local residents. I remember having a giggle when it first opened and there was a Garda stationed on the roundabout entrance at Tesco for a few days and then he/she disappeared never to be seen there again and the problem has gotten worse since.

Eventually I can see a shuttle bus running down to the centre from a suitable car park location during the busy times but whatever they do it will be too late for this Xmas's rush.

RainyDay

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

The Square wouldn't be the same at all. I cant remember the last time traffic was backed up from The Square to the M50, where as its a weekly occurrence for Dundrum SC

This is exactly the kind of exaggeration I'm talking about. On most Saturdays, the traffic is backed up to the Gort Mhuire roundabout. On a bad day, it might be backed up to the Wesley roundabout. But it takes a very bad day for it to be backed up to the M50.

greenbicycle wrote: »

your examples of liffey valley and the square are way off niether of them have just a one lane road going through residential areas both have fairly good infrastructure.

Isn't the access road to Liffey Valley off the M50 a single lane road, until you get into the LV campus proper?

greenbicycle wrote: »

Why should we all be forced to use our bikes to get around? What a silly remark. perhaps you are blind to it all because you are just using your bike and are completely oblivious to the long queues of cars.

I don't generally use the bike at weekends, so I'm in the car around Ballinteer, Dundrum, Churchtown, Sandyford - doing all the usual family/shopping/kids sports stuff - traffic jams are an occasional issue.

dogmatix wrote: »

Must disagree - I'm originally from the area and I am currently working in the DTC and I can confirm there is major traffic congestion at the weekends if there is wet weather and it is the xmas shopping / january sales time. And then now and again there is a crash or as in one incident a few years ago when the pay barrier at the tesco surface car park stopped working - then you get complete gridlock.

Looks like I'll have to get the camera out over the weekend to record this 'gridlock'.

greenbicycle

So we have at least seven people who say they have witnessed bad traffic and suffer to an extent because of it and then there is just you, rainyday, who thinks there is no traffic to contend with and we are all big exaggeraters.

What is the point in arguing against lots of us who are concerned about the level of traffic we see? is it that you dont want the changes on the ballinteer road to happen? you just like a good argument? why cant you let us get out our complaints, vent a bit and discuss the issues that we have (but that you clearly dont).

RainyDay

greenbicycle wrote: »

So we have at least seven people who say they have witnessed bad traffic and suffer to an extent because of it and then there is just you, rainyday, who thinks there is no traffic to contend with and we are all big exaggeraters.

That's a bit more exaggeration there. I've never said 'there is no traffic to contend with'. I have witnessed bad traffic there. It's just that my experience of the frequency and extent of the bad traffic seems to be different to yours.

greenbicycle wrote: »

What is the point in arguing against lots of us who are concerned about the level of traffic we see? is it that you dont want the changes on the ballinteer road to happen? you just like a good argument? why cant you let us get out our complaints, vent a bit and discuss the issues that we have (but that you clearly dont).

I'm not stopping anyone from saying what they like. If I see BS, then I'll call BS on it.

Why do I do this? Because good solutions come from facts, not from exaggerated problems. The changes to Ballinteer Road seem like a good thing to me. The Wesley roundabout is definitely a bit of a bottleneck.

dogmatix

RainyDay wrote: »

Looks like I'll have to get the camera out over the weekend to record this 'gridlock'.

Aye - you do that. But if you read my post properly you will see I mentioned three factors that will cause gridlock: a wet weekend, xmas/january sales AND a traffic incident, such as a crash or some problem accessing the centre's car parks.

So i'd wait until at least December 12th and on for the camera and all. Do post the pics here when they are ready!

RainyDay

dogmatix wrote: »

Aye - you do that. But if you read my post properly you will see I mentioned three factors that will cause gridlock: a wet weekend, xmas/january sales AND a traffic incident, such as a crash or some problem accessing the centre's car parks.

So i'd wait until at least December 12th and on for the camera and all. Do post the pics here when they are ready!

That's kinda my point - it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is gridlock on Dec 12th, but there isn't gridlock most Saturdays. It does get busy for an hour or two, but gridlock is rare.

ted1

It always puzzled me as to why they didn't bring the LUAS to the centre?

snor

ted1 wrote: »

It always puzzled me as to why they didn't bring the LUAS to the centre?[/QUOTE

easy - that would have been too sensible/logical!

bronn

I think it was because they wanted to situate the Luas on the old Harcourt St railway line. The footprint from that railway still existed as it had been kept for future use when that line got closed in the 1950's (?). It was a case of having the railway already there and then not building DTC nearer to it. Or, given that the land around the old line was all developed anyway, they could have deviated the line a bit closer to DTC, but didn't.

Anyway, Balally stop is not too far from the Luas but it could have been arranged better (and named better). As it is, there's a substantial amount of traffic running through the main pedestrian route from the Luas to DTC which is not ideal for either the pedestrians or the traffic. One of the the main issues being jay-walking pedestrians who are impatient for the lights to change. I've seen many a close shave on Overend Ave near the shops at the Luas stop. Same story near the RSA building junction.

dogmatix wrote: »

Alonzi's! Now there is a memory! I heard that he retired back to italy a number of years ago. Anyone remember Keoghs the butchers? Originally he was down near Meenans shops (on the site where Bhagwans is now) before moving up besides Spar (or Merry go-round as it was then). Now a bookies. Sorry - going a bit of track here.

Following you off-track for a moment. Was it Meehans or Meenans? Meehans. Meenans. I feel like Joey with supposedly / supposably. :pac: I always loved Alonzi's chips. He was a nice man and would give the kids a few extra chips. There was also that weird green tank thing outside those shops. All around it was littered with smashed glass. Was it oil or ESB? Can't remember what was in it now.

snor wrote: »

Thread bringing back lots of memories! Yes, remember Keoghs well - was a video shop beside it. Also the bicycle shop - remember Alex there. Trendys hair salon. Also fond memories of Paddys. Remember they used to wear the navy shop keepers coats! Happy Days.

The bike shop! I'd forgotten all about that place. Was Paddy's always called Merry-go-round? Or was it Paddy's first? We still call the place Paddy's! I do remember the navy shop keepers coats and the old wooden counter that was over to the right of the shop when you went in the squeaky door. 10p bag, please!

greenbicycle

bronn wrote: »

Following you off-track for a moment. Was it Meehans or Meenans? Meehans. Meenans. I feel like Joey with supposedly / supposably. :pac: I always loved Alonzi's chips. He was a nice man and would give the kids a few extra chips. There was also that weird green tank thing outside those shops. All around it was littered with smashed glass. Was it oil or ESB? Can't remember what was in it now.

It was Meenans, will never forget standing up against the glass on the front of the counter trying to figure out what I wanted to spend my 50p on, I remember that glass as being very tall but I am sure that is because I was only small! we must have driven the shopkeepers mad with the time we took making up our minds.

The green tank thing.......I had totally forgotten about that!!! What was that thing??? That has been gone a long long time! as have all the other things that have been mentioned!

dogmatix

Aye Meenan's was the spelling. And don't forget Mr's Bond behind the counter. Used to spend my 20p pocket money there - a quarter pound bag of bulleyes from the array of glass bottles by the window and a copy of the beano on a saturday morning. Two doors up was Lalors (now centra) which also housed the post office. There must have been some sort of 'gentlemans agreement' between Mr Lalor and Mr Meenans because Lalors (or Lawlors?) did not sell newspapers or sweets.

As for the green tank around the corner and up the avenue - I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was supposed to store heating oil for a communal heating system for the houses in woodpark or ludford or somewhere but the scheme never went through so it became something of a white elephant. Does anyone remember the huge confir tree in front of merry go round - it was unclimbable because it leaked sticky resin in such vast quantities that you would have ended up populating a future jurassic park.

xaforb

There were underground oil tanks there belonging to Esso. Esso contracted to supply oil to Woodpark on a communal basis with a maze of pipes running from these tanks all through people's back gardens with connections through meters installed outside the back doors. It was in operation for a number of years. You couldn't buy a house in Woodpark unless you signed up with Esso as well. The meters were read monthly and bills issued.

Then came the oil crisis and people drastically cut down, pipes leaked into back gardens, the meters were constantly failing and Esso decided to get out of it despite 20 year contracts having been signed with residents. Every trick in the book was used to create "reasons" to disconnect supplies although, in fairness, from what I heard, some residents were not blameless.

Esso eventually offered to supply individual tanks to paid up residents.

Edit: It was either that or Esso agreed to fill your newly bought tank free for the first fill.

bronn

Aha! I remember the folks giving out yards about that home heating thing they had to sign when they bought in Woodpark. So that's what the tank at Paddy's was. I remember the little meter back at the back door too.

Markx

RainyDay wrote: »

That's kinda my point - it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is gridlock on Dec 12th, but there isn't gridlock most Saturdays. It does get busy for an hour or two, but gridlock is rare.

Well I live in an apartment overlooking the roundabout at Wyckham Way. From my couch where I watch endless hours of weekend sport I can look out the window at any time from around 11:00 to 16:00 on a Saturday or Sunday and its chocca. This is usually backed-up all the way to the M50. The roads all around are what I'd call gridlocked too.

On the road works, I'm at a loss as to why they have put a small traffic island on the left hand side approaching the M50 roundabouts. It means cars can't slip into the left hand lane as easily. I go from Wyckham Way to the M50 every day and the last week has been by far the worst morning rush hour traffic since I moved to the area.

It's fair enough to help the people get out of their estates with the lights though because they are entirely reliant on good will at the moment.

bronn

Yeah, I dunno why the traffic island is there on the M50 approach either. It has effectively blocked the left lane for people who want to get to Sandyford until they move around it. Most people are staying in the right lane now for the M50. Seems rather... pointless.

The traffic islands certainly have slowed traffic down. I drove up there last night around 22:00 & nobody was booting it. I think it's too narrow BUT it's got the be a good thing to slow speeders down. Something hit the traffic island nearest to Wesley at the weekend- maybe Sunday night. There were bits of timber, squished cones & broken barriers all around it v early on Monday morning.

xaforb

Yeah, I dunno why the traffic island is there on the M50 approach either. It has effectively blocked the left lane for people who want to get to Sandyford until they move around it. Most people are staying in the right lane now for the M50. Seems rather... pointless.

I think the point is that they are determined that nothing goes over 50kph on this stretch of road between these two roundabouts. Some drivers were darting into that left lane (mainly for Sandyford but some for the M50) and taking a chance. With traffic in the right hand lane blocking your view you cannot see vehicles coming around from either the M50 or Brehon Field Road. With many drivers coming from the M50 not even bothering to indicate their intention to come around and head for Sandyford there have been numerous accidents at this roundabout. By slowing it all down until the roundabout itself you won't be able to build up a head of steam.

I think it's too narrow BUT it's got the be a good thing to slow speeders down.

It's the very narrowness that already is having an effect on the ability to get out of the estates. With the speeds down it is now possible to "sneak" out in a gap instead of having to wait for the 1 in 1000 driver that might have some consideration and stop to allow you out onto the yellow boxes. Previously, you had no chance to sneak out for fear of being mowed down from either direction.

The road will have those speed indicator signs that show your actual speed.

RainyDay

greenbicycle wrote: »

I think you are wrong there Rainyday, sorry! the traffic is a nightmare, I know my planning is already planning on getting home early in order to avoid the horrendous traffic from Shop and Rock on this Thursday night.

we shouldnt have to plan the times that we get home because of awful traffic.

Came past tonight at about 6pm - it was busy along Barton Road E, backed up through the roundabout, but there was no traffic on Ballinteer Road, and no visible traffic anywhere near the Gort Mhuire roundabout.

markpb

greenbicycle wrote: »

we shouldnt have to plan the times that we get home because of awful traffic.

Sorry, what!? You want to live in a city and never encounter bad traffic?

greenbicycle

markpb wrote: »

Sorry, what!? You want to live in a city and never encounter bad traffic?

We dont live in a city, we live in the suburb of a city where you would expect there to be rush hour traffic in the morning and the afternoon of weekdays but not constant traffic on Saturday and Sundays and any bank holiday or school holiday. we would not expect to have a whole month (mid december to early january) where there is almost constant bad traffic.

greenbicycle

RainyDay wrote: »

Came past tonight at about 6pm - it was busy along Barton Road E, backed up through the roundabout, but there was no traffic on Ballinteer Road, and no visible traffic anywhere near the Gort Mhuire roundabout.

thanks for the update

bronn

I see now why they were digging a big hole opposite the entrance to College Park. It's the foundation for a fancy overhead traffic light which has been installed. Very useful for drivers approaching those new lights from the M50 side.

The traffic island on the approach to the crazy Brehonfield Road roundabout really has slowed people down there. Initially a head scratcher but now, I'm rather thankful for it. Would be great to have something to get people to bloody well yield when coming out from under the bridge or down off the M50. I don't know what it is about those two places but a lot of drivers just come straight out and don't yield to traffic already on the roundabout. Lethal if you're turning for Brehonfield Road.

Larbre34

greenbicycle wrote: »

We dont live in a city, we live in the suburb of a city where you would expect there to be rush hour traffic in the morning and the afternoon of weekdays but not constant traffic on Saturday and Sundays and any bank holiday or school holiday. we would not expect to have a whole month (mid december to early january) where there is almost constant bad traffic.

I would take a look beyond your suburb once in a while, to any other suburb in Dublin or any other growing city in Europe, its the same situation.

As a planning consultant I have watched this develop over the last 30 years and had to deal with the consequential policies. Two things are clear.

1) Unchecked growth in car ownership means the road capacity is now exceeded. You could not build enough roads within the M50 in Dublin to catch up with that.

2) Due to 1) above, planning and transport policy is now deliberately at odds with car ownership and seeks to place the pedestrian and cyclist and public transport vehicles at the top of the tree and deliberately inconvenience the private motorist. This is followed through by reducing the capacity for private car parking in new residential building.

The genie is out of the bottle greenbicycle, the scenario you describe will continue until private car ownership largely becomes impractical or uneconomic. Its up to the same policy makers of course, to come up with alternatives that are both practical and economic.

RainyDay

greenbicycle wrote: »

thanks for the update

The update from the very wet Saturday is that traffic was very heavy, backed up to Wesley and towards the M50 around 12.30pm. At 3pm, it was fairly light.

RainyDay

So here's this weekend's update!

7pm Friday - very busy traffic from M50 to Wesley, but free flowing from Wesley onwards - haven't seen that pattern before, maybe the new designs are slowing cars down significantly

1pm Saturday - no traffic backed up until I got in sight of Tesco petrol station - maybe 5-10 cars backed up there. Funnily enough, there was a long queue backed up the bypass, which is unusual at that time of day.

5pm Saturday - Traffic busy but moving until close to Tesco

2pm Sunday - Busy from Tesco back to Gort Mhuire only