Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

smiley_face

total former wrote: »

No, they didn't.

Already posted a few pages back a direct quote from one poster, don't intend on going back and finding more, but yes they did.

smiley_face

total former wrote: »

No, they didn't.

Whatever, do you not agree though that the matches were relevant?

total former

smiley_face wrote: »

Already posted a few pages back a direct quote from one poster, don't intend on going back and finding more, but yes they did.

No, the direct quote that was posted was shown to be referring to the provinces' warm-up games.

I've been saying all along that the Ireland warm-up games were of relevance.

rrpc

smiley_face wrote: »

Clearly matches and training are both important to selection.
The issue was that some posters were claiming that the matches were completely irrelevant towards selection.

One quote was produced to make that claim:

Really though ? Does it actually work like that. That one player in a mix and gatherem team, against a hodge podge weak experimental team, could be compared to another player in a different team, against different equally hodge podge opposition, with any significant bearing on the final squad selection seems bizarre.
If places really are up for grabs and are genuinely influenced by erformance in these games, it strikes me as very amateur hour management. And I dont believe we have that

I don't see the phrase 'completely irrelevant' or 'mickey mouse' in that quote.

And the 'proof' provided was a quote from Joe Schmidt which gave three reasons for picking Cave; one of which was that he went well in one warm up match.

smiley_face

total former wrote: »

No, the direct quote that was posted was shown to be referring to the provinces' warm-up games.

I've been saying all along that the Ireland warm-up games were of relevance.

Great, then I think that settles the point.
(You may be referring to a different quote, the one I posted was definitely referring to the International matches.)

smiley_face

rrpc wrote: »

One quote was produced to make that claim:



I don't see the phrase 'completely irrelevant' or 'mickey mouse' in that quote.

And the 'proof' provided was a quote from Joe Schmidt which gave three reasons for picking Cave; one of which was that he went well in one warm up match.

You would have to go back and read all the comments, I'm not interested in it myself. I'm not going to get dragged into a semantical argument about what people meant. Make your own judgement as to what they meant.

The Pheasant2

Team announcement today?

aedanknight

Sorry is this isn't the right place to post. I'm going to the game Saturday, after the game I was hoping to watch the Dublin Mayo game at 17:00. Does anyone know if any pubs in Twickeneham will be showing this, unfortunately I've noticed this will clash with an England Euro 2016 game. Any chances of getting the GAA anywhere??

smiley_face

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Team announcement today?

It's on the IRFU website as below:

IRELAND: Team to be announced on Thursday (1.45pm)

connachta

total former wrote: »

Maybe Kilcoyne was still in the mix at that point, but his performance in that match killed off his chances?

Yeah so games did count:D:D (not provincial ones, the debate was about if international friendlies mattered or not)

.ak

awec wrote: »

If Healy can't play this weekend then this selection in the squad is just crazy.

Unless the plan is to replace him in the squad early if he isn't fully fixed.

He can play, they're just choosing not to play him.

awec

.ak wrote: »

He can play, they're just choosing not to play him.

Which suggests the risk is too high. There is pretty much no other reason not to play him given he has not been involved at all to date.

That in itself is a problem. How are we going to know if he's really up to it without actually playing a game?

total former

connachta wrote: »

Yeah so games did count:D:D (not provincial ones, the debate was about if international friendlies mattered or not)

Which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

Just for once, could you maybe explain exactly what point you're trying to make. It's really hard to figure out.

connachta

smiley_face wrote: »

Clearly matches and training are both important to selection.
The issue was that some posters were claiming that the matches were completely irrelevant towards selection.

That's it

connachta

total former wrote: »

No, the direct quote that was posted was shown to be referring to the provinces' warm-up games.

Not the 2nd one I posted

The games are much less important in determining the make up of the squad than you seem to be suggesting.
[...]
the squad is going to be selected primarily based on what they've been doing at Carton House, not what they've been doing in mickey mouse warm up games.

My point is : some were saying, since Wales 1st game, that training was the only basis for selection, or close to it, were wrong. And some players had, or could have grabbed their place with good game performance

exiledelbows

aedanknight wrote: »

Sorry is this isn't the right place to post. I'm going to the game Saturday, after the game I was hoping to watch the Dublin Mayo game at 17:00. Does anyone know if any pubs in Twickeneham will be showing this, unfortunately I've noticed this will clash with an England Euro 2016 game. Any chances of getting the GAA anywhere??

Might be worth asking here or here.

O'Neills in Richmond is closed apparently, and nearest place listed on Matchpint is the Alex in Clapham – you'll miss most of the match just getting there.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Which suggests the risk is too high. There is pretty much no other reason not to play him given he has not been involved at all to date.

That in itself is a problem. How are we going to know if he's really up to it without actually playing a game?

No, I think it suggests (because it's what Joe said) that he hasn't trained enough with the squad as a whole, i.e; he'll be behind the rest of the squad in terms of system work etc.

Joe said he's game fit, but not ready to slot in, if you get me.

MJohnston

connachta wrote: »

Not the 2nd one I posted


My point is : some were saying, since Wales 1st game, that training was the only basis for selection, or close to it, were wrong. And some players had, or could have grabbed their place with good game performance

https://xkcd.com/386/

rrpc

connachta wrote: »

Not the 2nd one I posted


My point is : some were saying, since Wales 1st game, that training was the only basis for selection, or close to it, were wrong. And some players had, or could have grabbed their place with good game performance

And what you quoted doesn't say that. It said 'much less important' and 'primarily'.

Not exactly 'the only basis'. But if you're now insisting that match performance was the be all and end all for selection, answer me this:

Marmion got a run out against Wales. Did he perform particularly poorly in that match?

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

Not the 2nd one I posted


My point is : some were saying, since Wales 1st game, that training was the only basis for selection, or close to it, were wrong. And some players had, or could have grabbed their place with good game performance

Do you know what the word "primarily" means?

EDIT: Which is to say, at no point in that post was it said that training was the only thing that they would use to make their decision.

ssaye2

total former

Dave K in the driving seat for the 11 jersey at RWC so.

thomond2006

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

Unless Henshaw/Payne get a half hour at 15 with Cave coming on.

thomond2006

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Unless Henshaw/Payne get a half hour at 15 with Cave coming on.

Joe has never put either at 15 so that doesn't make sense to me.

Mr Tickle

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

every chance we'll see Payne or henshaw used at full back at some point too and cave given time in the centre.

WeleaseWoderick

Still hate the team listings being done with Twitter handles!!

connachta

rrpc wrote: »

And what you quoted doesn't say that. It said 'much less important' and 'primarily'.

Not exactly 'the only basis'. Or close to it I precised. But if you're now insisting that match performance was the be all and end all for selection, answer me this:

Marmion got a run out against Wales. Did he perform particularly poorly in that match?

13 minutes not enough. All I meant is that 30 more on the bench against Wales the 2nd time could have been. But it wasn't about Marms, it was on on the substance of the case. Three long weeks I read "Joe already made his mind with trainning", "games are just warn-up'. No they did, or could have mattared for anyone having played enough and good rugby

Noopti

Should be a good game.

I think it was Thornely on OTB on Wednesday who was mentioning how both sets of coaches have been complimentary of each others teams in recent times after these games. Something to do with both sides wanting to scrum, meaning there are less resets and therefore the games are usually a good spectacle and not disjointed. I think Thornley mentioned this in relation to Wales, who he said don't want to scrum, hence you get a lot of Scrum penalties/issues against them.

Not sure how fair that is, but in general this should be another good game I think. However I am seeing an England win to be honest, by 3-5.

total former

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

I'd say it's more that his suitability for the 23 jersey is being tested out. Rob Kearney was excellent last week, I can't imagine he's getting the bullet.

AdamD

Zebo very rarely catches attacking garryowens so I doubt he'll get in ahead of Kearney unless we change our gameplan

lotmc

RTE has it this way

Ireland team to face England at Twickenham on Saturday:

Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Jared Payne, Robbie Henshaw, Simon Zebo, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony, Paul O’Connell (captain), Devin Toner, Mike Ross, Rory Best, Jack McGrath.

Replacements: Richardt Strauss, Tadhg Furlong, Nathan White, Donnacha Ryan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan, Darren Cave.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you know what the word "primarily" means?

EDIT: Which is to say, at no point in that post was it said that training was the only thing that they would use to make their decision.

primarily : essentially, chiefly. yes the spririt of that quote and many others is close to "the only basis. "

Squidgy Black

lotmc wrote: »

RTE has it this way

Ireland team to face England at Twickenham on Saturday:

Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Jared Payne, Robbie Henshaw, Simon Zebo, Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony, Paul O’Connell (captain), Devin Toner, Mike Ross, Rory Best, Jack McGrath.

Replacements: Richardt Strauss, Tadhg Furlong, Nathan White, Donnacha Ryan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan, Darren Cave.

Think that's a mistake on RTE's side, they've Rob instead of Dave, the picture posted was from the IRFU twitter page.

molloyjh

That's a strong squad. Fingers crossed no injuries......

smiley_face

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

Interesting way to cover the backline from the bench,
Here's how I see that working:
As another poster pointed out, Henshaw and Payne are down as centre/fullback players.
I also heard Joe Schmidt comment that they were asked to play together in the centre despite neither being specialist centres.
I think Cave will replace either of the two centres, and if Zebo goes off he can replace Zebo and swap to centre with one of Henshaw or Payne for fullback.
If one of the wings gets injured then Cave to centre, Payne or Henshaw to fullback, with Zebo to left wing and D Kearney to right wing.
Madigan covering outhalf, but maybe could swap in at 12 at some point if needed.

ssaye2

Heard Corcoran say RK had a knock - second hand info.

WeleaseWoderick

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Still hate the team listings being done with Twitter handles!!

When I become an international rugby player, my twitter handle will be something obscene to stamp out this nonsense

vienne86

These twitter handles do my head in.

Anyway, great line up - should be a great game.....just no injuries please.

MJohnston

In fairness they only post the Twitter handles image to Twitter. This is what they posted on Facebook:

rrpc

connachta wrote: »

13 minutes not enough. All I meant is that 30 more on the bench against Wales the 2nd time could have been. But it wasn't about Marms, it was on on the substance of the case. Three long weeks I read "Joe already made his mind with trainning", "games are just warn-up'. No they did, or could have mattared for anyone having played enough and good rugby

I'm sorry but I just can't make head or tail of what you're trying to say here.

The only thing I can make out is that you're still saying that posters (plural and many by your tone) were saying that it was ALL based on training. I'm saying that you haven't proven that one iota.

You first quoted a post about interpros which you quoted out of context and when it was looked up, you were called on it.

Then you quoted another post out of context and tried to make the word 'primarily' mean something else entirely.

You said 'posters'. Plural. Many. More than one. You haven't come up with anything to back that up.

That's the substance of the case :rolleyes:

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

When I become an international rugby player, my twitter handle will be something obscene to stamp out this nonsense

Something to be said for Eoin Reddan, Nathan White and Jonny Sexton.

Although every so often they make up a twitter handle for Jonny

Quint2010

Is RK out with injury? If not he should be a worried man.

.ak

Quint2010 wrote: »

Is RK out with injury? If not he should be a worried man.

Why would he be? He had a great performance in his last game.

lawred2

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Still hate the team listings being done with Twitter handles!!

what's this now?

Quint2010

.ak wrote: »

Why would he be? He had a great performance in his last game.

Yeah and what I am saying is if he isn't injured then why isn't he playing?

phog

With Zebo stepping into the fullback position it gives Dave K another opportunity to play on the wing. That might help him cement a place on the team. No place for Fitz or Earls, though Earls must still be an injury concern.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Zebo being given a legitimate shot at the 15 shirt? With no back three player on the bench he's going to play the 80. 11 and 15 aside that's a first choice team. At the very least it's a good sign for Zebo being in the first choice 23.

A shot at the 15 shirt? Nah, hugely doubtful especially after last week's showing from RK.

However, he's definitely in our 23 at this point either at 11 or 23. I think RK being absent gives Schmidt a nice opportunity to have a look at both DK and Zebo from the start and see how their form continues. Left wing is probably the only shirt still up for grabs.

lawred2

phog wrote: »

With Zebo stepping into the fullback position it gives Dave K another opportunity to play on the wing. That might help him cement a place on the team. No place for Fitz or Earls, though Earls must still be an injury concern.

Has Fitzgerald done anywhere near enough? I personally don't think so.

Buer

phog wrote: »

With Zebo stepping into the fullback position it gives Dave K another opportunity to play on the wing. That might help him cement a place on the team. No place for Fitz or Earls, though Earls must still be an injury concern.

Don't think either of them are going to threaten the starting line up on recent showings. Possibly the 23 jersey, especially if Zebo gets the nod at 11.