Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

shuffol

I just hope Kearney and Zebo aren't afraid to pass the ball to each other!

connachta

rrpc wrote: »

I'm sorry but I just can't make head or tail of what you're trying to say here.

The only thing I can make out is that you're still saying that posters (plural and many by your tone) were saying that it was ALL based on training. I'm saying that you haven't proven that one iota.

You first quoted a post about interpros which you quoted out of context and when it was looked up, you were called on it.

Then you quoted another post out of context and tried to make the word 'primarily' mean something else entirely.

You said 'posters'. Plural. Many. More than one. You haven't come up with anything to back that up.

That's the substance of the case :rolleyes:

Right, I'll document my stance again later

padser

connachta wrote: »

Right, I'll document my stance again later

Please don't

connachta

padser wrote: »

Please don't

I have to, I was attacked

Noopti

Honour demands it..... :rolleyes:

Quint2010

Buer wrote: »

Don't think either of them are going to threaten the starting line up on recent showings. Possibly the 23 jersey, especially if Zebo gets the nod at 11.

Not so sure about that. Everyone saying RK played well last Saturday. And he certainly didnt play badly. Just wondering is Schmidt looking to inject some zip and unpredictability into the attack by picking Zebo for this match? Zebo certainly impressed against Wales away and played as well as Kearney did against Wales against Scotland. In fact he was pretty flawless in the basics which lets face it are what Kearney is picked for. If Kearney is not injured then there is no other reason he shouldnt be picked for this match apart from the fact that Schmidt sees Zebo as a viable alternative to him at FB.

irishbucsfan

I reckon Rowntree will be looking to give Furlong a real test. I think we'll see them leave Cole on, which would be a bit of a baptism of fire for him.

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I reckon Rowntree will be looking to give Furlong a real test. I think we'll see them leave Cole on, which would be a bit of a baptism of fire for him.

It'll definitely be a big challenge, but if it all plays out well it'll but a lot of people's fears and apprehension at rest.

Buer

Quint2010 wrote: »

Just wondering is Schmidt looking to inject some zip and unpredictability into the attack by picking Zebo for this match?

It would go against everything we've seen with Ireland thus far where we're all about ball retention and the basics executed well.

In fact he was pretty flawless in the basics which lets face it are what Kearney is picked for

He wasn't. He did some lovely things in attack but there was some of the basics of full back play where he showed his inexperience there particularly in defence.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I reckon Rowntree will be looking to give Furlong a real test. I think we'll see them leave Cole on, which would be a bit of a baptism of fire for him.

I reckon Rowntree won't care one way or the other, he'll do what's best for his team's RWC preparation, so Furlong will probably end up facing Kieran Brookes.

smiley_face

total former wrote: »

Dave K in the driving seat for the 11 jersey at RWC so.

It could be that way but I don't think this proves it yet, as Zebo is also playing and Fitzgerald is out injured, and Earls is out injured.
If Rob Kearney is out with a knock then it just means this is our best available formation for this match. (i.e. it is preferred to 15 DK/TB/RH/JP, 11 SZ).
Still possible that our preferred wing combination could be any of:
(I've placed them in order of my own personal preference as it stands now)
I could possibly start a dedicated thread to choosing wingers and put up a poll on it if people would be interested to vote on it...
1) 11 SZ, 14 DK
2) 11 SZ, 14 TB
3) 11 DK, 14 TB
4) 11 SZ, 14 KE
5) 11 DK, 14 KE
6) 11 LF, 14 DK
7) 11 LF, 14 TB
8) 11 LF, 14 KE
9) 11 KE, 14 DK
10) 11 KE, 14 TB

molloyjh

Quint2010 wrote: »

Not so sure about that. Everyone saying RK played well last Saturday. And he certainly didnt play badly. Just wondering is Schmidt looking to inject some zip and unpredictability into the attack by picking Zebo for this match? Zebo certainly impressed against Wales away and played as well as Kearney did against Wales against Scotland. In fact he was pretty flawless in the basics which lets face it are what Kearney is picked for. If Kearney is not injured then there is no other reason he shouldnt be picked for this match apart from the fact that Schmidt sees Zebo as a viable alternative to him at FB.

I reckon it's as much to give Zebo exposure to the 15 shirt as he will be playing there in the opening 2 games and will be back-up if Rob gets injured. It's the logical read I reckon.

And if anything it might guarantee Zebo the 23 shirt for the bigger games. Having Zebo covering numerous places from the bench with either Fitz or Earls at 11 provides cover for the entire back line (Mads covering 10 and 12).

smiley_face

molloyjh wrote: »

I reckon it's as much to give Zebo exposure to the 15 shirt as he will be playing there in the opening 2 games and will be back-up if Rob gets injured. It's the logical read I reckon.

And if anything it might guarantee Zebo the 23 shirt for the bigger games. Having Zebo covering numerous places from the bench with either Fitz or Earls at 11 provides cover for the entire back line (Mads covering 10 and 12).

Agree with Point 1 as far as Zebo need game time at 15 before the RWC. I said it a few days ago, Zebo, Dave Kearney and Bowe all need game time.
Rob Kearney has nothing to prove now, so testing Zebo is a good idea.
(Also possibility that Rob is minding a slight knock.)

Point 2 not so sure I'd agree with entirely.
I'd pick your best wing combination before worrying about the bench cover if possible.
The formations where he is 11 or 23 are closely the same really. Depends if you want him starting or not. Either way Luke Fitz doesn't match.
i.e.
11 SZ + 14 DK/TB/KE + 23 DK/TB/KE ≈ 11 DK + 14 TB/KE + 23 SZ

Tox56

smiley_face wrote: »

Agree with Point 1 as far as Zebo need game time at 15 before the RWC. I said it a few days ago, Zebo, Dave Kearney and Bowe all need game time.
Rob Kearney has nothing to prove now, so testing Zebo is a good idea.
(Also possibility that Rob is minding a slight knock.)

Point 2 not so sure I'd agree with entirely.
I'd pick your best wing combination before worrying about the bench cover if possible.
The formations where he is 11 or 23 are closely the same really. Depends if you want him starting or not. Either way Luke Fitz doesn't match.
i.e.
11 SZ + 14 DK/TB/KE + 23 DK/TB/KE ≈ 11 DK + 14 TB/KE + 23 SZ

The fact Fitz started in our last competitive game when we had pretty much the same players available you would suggest there's at least one possible combination with him in it

smiley_face

Tox56 wrote: »

The fact Fitz started in our last competitive game when we had pretty much the same players available you would suggest there's at least one possible combination with him in it

Absolutely there are, not suggesting otherwise, but if Zebo is 11 or 23 then Luke wouldn't be a good 11 or 23 as they both cover left wing but not right wing.
Loads of combinations with Luke Fitz starting or benching. I'll post later on that.
Also I was assuming 12 Henshaw 13 Payne and 15 R Kearney.
If you put Earls or Bowe at 13 you could have them both covering 11 and 23 I suppose, but that's not 1st choice selection IMO.

The Rape of Lucretia

Tox56 wrote: »

The fact Fitz started in our last competitive game when we had pretty much the same players available you would suggest there's at least one possible combination with him in it

There surely is. The same one as for Earls on the bench:
In the Rob injury situation, Paynser to fullback, and Earlsie or Geraldsie in to 13.

The Rape of Lucretia

smiley_face wrote: »

Point 2 not so sure I'd agree with entirely.
I'd pick your best wing combination before worrying about the bench cover if possible.
The formations where he is 11 or 23 are closely the same really. Depends if you want him starting or not. Either way Luke Fitz doesn't match.
i.e.
11 SZ + 14 DK/TB/KE + 23 DK/TB/KE ≈ 11 DK + 14 TB/KE + 23 SZ

See above for the solution to your equation.

Coburger

smiley_face wrote: »

Agree with Point 1 as far as Zebo need game time at 15 before the RWC. I said it a few days ago, Zebo, Dave Kearney and Bowe all need game time.
Rob Kearney has nothing to prove now, so testing Zebo is a good idea.
(Also possibility that Rob is minding a slight knock.)

I've always wondered if he can prove he can pass the ball when attacking ;-)

connachta

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There surely is. The same one as for Earls on the bench:
In the Rob injury situation, Paynser to fullback, and Earlsie or Geraldsie in to 13.

For once we agree 100%

smiley_face

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

See above for the solution to your equation.

That's not a solution for an injury on the right wing. Unless you want to put Payne on the right wing. I wouldn't have that as my 1st choice formation anyway.

smiley_face

Assuming 12 Henshaw, 13 Payne and 15 R Kearney as the 1st choice;
The formations where Luke Fitzgerald is 11 or 23:

11 LF + 14 DK/TB/KE + 23 DK/TB/KE

11 DK + 14 TB/KE + 23 LF

Same as for Zebo, except Zebo covers 15 as a straight swap, but Fitzgerald would have to swap with Payne to cover fullback.

exiledelbows

Ireland are going to be in the home dressing room on Saturday apparently. England have lost the dressing room (and Jersey) toss to Fiji so they're in the away one on Saturday to 'get used to it'.

The Rape of Lucretia

exiledelbows wrote: »

Ireland are going to be in the home dressing room on Saturday apparently. England have lost the dressing room (and Jersey) toss to Fiji so they're in the away one on Saturday to 'get used to it'.

Good catch by Lancaster that. So easy to get wrong. Fiji surely would have turned them over if they hadnt got the dressing room practice in in this game. Feel its advantage England now though and they will beat Fiji easily.

LorMal

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There surely is. The same one as for Earls on the bench:
In the Rob injury situation, Paynser to fullback, and Earlsie or Geraldsie in to 13.

Who?

sydthebeat

I thought all the home and away stuff was based on seedings

duckysauce

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Good catch by Lancaster that. So easy to get wrong. Fiji surely would have turned them over if they hadnt got the dressing room practice in in this game. Feel its advantage England now though and they will beat Fiji easily.

why will they beat Fiji easily

The Rape of Lucretia

duckysauce wrote: »

why will they beat Fiji easily

Perfectly nailed dressing room strategy.
Its Schmidty level thinking from Lancs. Impressive.

duckysauce

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Perfectly nailed dressing room strategy.
Its Schmidty level thinking from Lancs. Impressive.

what are you ****ting on about ?

stephen_n

duckysauce wrote: »

what are you ****ting on about ?

Hopefully it's sarcasm.

vienne86

Shane Horgan was on RTE this morning - reckons what we really need to see in action tomorrow is the combinations - back row 3, front row, centre partnership, half backs.......good point.

smiley_face

vienne86 wrote: »

Shane Horgan was on RTE this morning - reckons what we really need to see in action tomorrow is the combinations - back row 3, front row, centre partnership, half backs.......good point.

Heard on he radio this morning reporting that Zebo is replacing Rob Kearney because Rob picked up an injury.

Dcully

Is the game on live TV anywhere folks?

rrpc

Dcully wrote: »

Is the game on live TV anywhere folks?

Sky I suspect. All the other matches were.

It's on SKY - am sticking up a match thread now.

Awesomeness

smiley_face wrote: »

Heard on he radio this morning reporting that Zebo is replacing Rob Kearney because Rob picked up an injury.

Irish rugby replied to a comment on its facebook page yesterday saying rob trainer and was available for selection but Joe wanted to give zebo more time there

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

Shane Horgan was on RTE this morning - reckons what we really need to see in action tomorrow is the combinations - back row 3, front row, centre partnership, half backs.......good point.

At the end of the day, it's a game of two halves

smiley_face

I see a lot of people assuming that Payne will go to fullback if Cave comes on.
Was that stated by Joe Schmidt or any of the Irish Management team at some stage?
What's the probability of Henshaw moving to 13 and Cave going to 12?
Or, Henshaw himself going to 15?
It was mentioned here by another poster that Cave and Payne at 12 and 13 are a very good combination as they play together for the same club, just like the D'Arcy and BOD combination.
Also saw a mention that Bowe could be tried at fullback if needed, and he has played well there for Ulster in the past, plus his GAA past would stand to him there fielding the ball, much like it does for Rob Kearney and Simon Zebo.

Flipper22

vienne86 wrote: »

Shane Horgan was on RTE this morning - reckons what we really need to see in action tomorrow is the combinations - back row 3, front row, centre partnership, half backs.......good point.

Very good point indeed. Important to see how the second row gels too, and the new look back three, and how all the combinations gel together.... so basically, how good the Irish rugby team is at playing rugby.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I've been away this week and couldn't get in on any of the discussion once the squad was announced so apologies for possibly/probably going over old ground but I have to say I'm pretty surprised at Trimble being left out completely. The logic of it makes little sense to me when you consider the inclusion of Fitz and Earls who both picked up knocks at the weekend and aren't included in the squad for the weekend to play England. I know the forwards are a different discussion but Cian Healy is still not fit to play and yet they're willing to take the risk there that he might be able to play one match if we're lucky. Zebo seems to have gotten in purely on the fact that he can kind of fill in at FB if necessary, Madigan is the same, he can kind of play a few positions.... actually bar Dave Kearney who I think played his way onto the plane all of the names that were on the will they/won't they list have made the team because they can fill in in a pinch at another position, which I suppose is sensible.

Anyway... it's done now. No use complaining although I kind of hope Trimble is on fine form for Ulster now these next few weeks.

Also, although we'll never know, I think it would be interesting to see who would have made up the final few places if we'd had a tougher group.

pickarooney

I assumed Mike McCarthy was injured as he hasn't even been mentioned all summer let alone included in any squads, yet he's lining out for Leinster this weekend.

Has his stock fallen that badly?

errlloyd

pickarooney wrote: »

I assumed Mike McCarthy was injured as he hasn't even been mentioned all summer let alone included in any squads, yet he's lining out for Leinster this weekend.

Has his stock fallen that badly?

Yeah, I think it has really. Shame, he was an absolute beast when he burst onto the scene, won MOM against South Africa etc. That bad stamp he got, he hasn't quite returned from it.

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah, I think it has really. Shame, he was an absolute beast when he burst onto the scene, won MOM against South Africa etc. That bad stamp he got, he hasn't quite returned from it.

He's also nearly 34, not like there's much point in involving him for development purposes. Not good enough to play against top teams and not young enough to keep around the squad for any other reason when there's the likes of Foley and Henderson around.

I don't think he was a ton better before either, he made a few errors even in those South Africa games.

EDIT: There was of course that hit he put in on Etzebeth that was a big highlight for him in that game, always worth linking to that!

Trabejo

Am I mad to believe that POM hasn't been all that great and should be behind Henderson at 6?

bilston

Trabejo wrote: »

Am I mad to believe that POM hasn't been all that great and should be behind Henderson at 6?

Schmidt hasn't played Henderson at 6 for Ireland since the 2014 6Ns. I honestly don't think Hendy is on his radar for 6 at the minute.

Let's be honest once POC rides off into the sunset Henderson will be straight into the No.5 jersey.

smiley_face

bilston wrote: »

Schmidt hasn't played Henderson at 6 for Ireland since the 2014 6Ns. I honestly don't think Hendy is on his radar for 6 at the minute.

Let's be honest once POC rides off into the sunset Henderson will be straight into the No.5 jersey.

Henderson played at 6 when he replaced Peter O'Mahony for 15 minutes at end of Italy match in 6 Nations 2015.

bilston

smiley_face wrote: »

Henderson played at 6 when he replaced Peter O'Mahony for 15 minutes at end of Italy match in 6 Nations 2015.

Good point, he made a good break in the he build up to TOD's try IIRC.

b.gud

If anyone here lives near or will be passing by Carton house in the next week can you give Tommy Bowe a big kick in the knee so we can get Trimble in the squad. Thanks

thomas anderson.

Can they still swap out players?

irishbucsfan

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Can they still swap out players?

If the players are injured, yes.

Clegg

I've seen little bits of set piece play to suggest we have some stuff held back in reserve for the World Cup so that isn't really an issue for me. What's more concerning is the general flatness in our attacking alignment. A lot of ball is just shuffled side to side with no penetration. And we were stretched so badly by England multiple times in that game. We defended so narrowly that they should really have won by 20 had they not bombed a few opportunities.

Accuracy at the breakdown, kicking, solid set piece and game intensity are our main strengths and we've built a winning formula on the back of it. So it's a bit worrying that we're going into the tournament looking weak in all those areas. I know we're not looking to hit top form right now but rather 4/5 weeks from now, but you'd hoped to see Ireland looking a bit better than this.

Sexton still looks off the pace and only really has two games to put himself right before the French clash. Passes aren't sticking like they should for him. He's not been completely poor though. Solid in defence, some decent kicking mixed with the bad and his running game is still threatenng. Still a fair bit to go before he's anywherw approaching his best. I've no idea what's happened to Bowe. Has to be the worst most of us have ever seen him play. Looked so slow in the first half and fumbled anything that came his way. Is Trimble were fit he'd be starting ahead of his Ulster teammate.