Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 05-09-2015 10:54pm

Clegg wrote: »

Sexton still looks off the pace and only really has two games to put himself right before the French clash. Passes aren't sticking like they should for him. He's not been completely poor though. Solid in defence, some decent kicking mixed with the bad and his running game is still threatenng. Still a fair bit to go before he's anywherw approaching his best. I've no idea what's happened to Bowe. Has to be the worst most of us have ever seen him play. Looked so slow in the first half and fumbled anything that came his way. If Trimble were fit he'd be starting ahead of his Ulster teammate.

He played 80 minutes for Ulster last week and 65ish for them yesterday. He seems perfectly fit to me. Or as fit as the likes of Healy anyway.

bilston · 06-09-2015 9:35am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He played 80 minutes for Ulster last week and 65ish for them yesterday. He seems perfectly fit to me. Or as fit as the likes of Healy anyway.

It's the training he has missed which has cost him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 06-09-2015 10:08am

bilston wrote: »

It's the training he has missed which has cost him.

Maybe but he still looked more up to speed than a couple of other players when he played against Wales.

irishbucsfan · 06-09-2015 10:09am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Maybe but he still looked more up to speed than a couple of other players when he played against Wales.

That was before he missed the training. It was the injury from that game and that Joe said cost him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 06-09-2015 10:21am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That was before he missed the training. It was the injury from that game and that Joe said cost him.

They had a week away from camp after that match and he was in the pics of them training the week they returned. I'm not saying Joe's lying or anything but all of the logic for the decision is questionable.

rrpc · 06-09-2015 10:24am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

They had a week away from camp after that match and he was in the pics of them training the week they returned. I'm not saying Joe's lying or anything but all of the logic for the decision is questionable.

It was a foot injury, so there may have been fitness issues. It really depends on what he was doing in training, but usually the injury is protected and the training is limited.

irishbucsfan · 06-09-2015 10:29am

There is an elephant in the room that nobody seems to have addressed yet, and it's Conor Murray's head injuries.

Conor Murray was knocked out yesterday. That's his 3rd head injury of the season. Bringing 2 scrum halves is such a massive risk, I just don't understand why we're taking it. It's even worse when there are potential head injuries (which Irish players have admitted to covering up in the past), I really hope that risk doesn't come back to bite us.

philstar · 06-09-2015 10:35am

Trimble played a blinder on fri night, and yet he didn't make the squad

if he's got a foot injury what he doing playing?? or is there more to it then that??

rrpc · 06-09-2015 11:04am

philstar wrote: »

Trimble played a blinder on fri night, and yet he didn't make the squad

if he's got a foot injury what he doing playing?? or is there more to it then that??

He got the injury in the first warm up game. That would have reduced his training time at a crucial point in the warm up period.

In the meantime, other players continued to train and play in matches when Trimble couldn't. He would have been behind the curve relative to other players and that he's now playing doesn't change that fact.

He still could be called back in if another winger gets injured.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 06-09-2015 12:36pm

rrpc wrote: »

He got the injury in the first warm up game. That would have reduced his training time at a crucial point in the warm up period.

In the meantime, other players continued to train and play in matches when Trimble couldn't. He would have been behind the curve relative to other players and that he's now playing doesn't change that fact.

He still could be called back in if another winger gets injured.

As I said I'm not sure he missed that much training with the foot injury after the Wales match but we weren't in Carton House so we can't say what he was or wasn't doing, other than that he was in the pictures I saw running drills with the rest of the squad.

The only match he seemed unavailable for was the Scotland match but chances are he might not have played that one anyway as Schmidt obviously was going to want to look at number of other players in the same position. He didn't play the second Wales game but he played 80 minutes for Ulster that same weekend so I can't see how anyone can say he couldn't (physically) have played some part against Wales.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that Schmidt and co couldn't make up their minds and I wouldn't say they quite flipped a coin but the sole fact that Trimble missed most of last season for club and country was the only thing in it. Personally I'm of the opinion that outside the obvious starters (in the backs) Dave Kearney is the only one that has shown he absolutely deserves a spot over anyone else. I think most of the rest could have easily lost out to Trimble, perhaps some would argue they still should have.

But it is what it is.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 06-09-2015 1:00pm

Late BOLTer to the Irish squad. Get it? Get it?

irishbucsfan · 06-09-2015 1:02pm

Poor execution from Joe there

irishbucsfan · 07-09-2015 2:14pm

Last night I was working overnight and so I decided to watch the England game again. Except that made me very sad and so I decided to follow that up by watching the Scotland game from the 6 Nations again.

That really restored my faith in what we're doing. The difference was unbelievable, the speed we were coming up in defense, how quick we were getting to breakdowns, everything was entirely different. Most importantly the way we were using the ball was different, we went wide a lot more than we did against Wales/England and we were using far more intricate patterns in midfield. After watching that game again I really can't wait to get to the World Cup, in particular I can't wait for that Italy game where I think we could really open up the playbook and play some nice rugby.

Zzippy · 07-09-2015 3:03pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Last night I was working overnight and so I decided to watch the England game again. Except that made me very sad and so I decided to follow that up by watching the Scotland game from the 6 Nations again.

"Working", yeah?

dtpc191991 · 07-09-2015 4:15pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Late BOLTer to the Irish squad. Get it? Get it?

He'll offer some real pace out wide. :P

Zzippy · 07-09-2015 4:33pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Late BOLTer to the Irish squad. Get it? Get it?

Pfft! He's no Felix Jones...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 4:34pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Pfft! He's no Felix Jones...

He should have been the 3rd scrum half.

Buer · 07-09-2015 4:46pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Pfft! He's no Felix Jones...

You're right.

Bolt is actually with the squad!

smiley_face · 07-09-2015 5:02pm

After looking carefully at the schedule for the pool matches, and the way the matches are staggered, France have a real advantage.
They get to play Italy in their first match and then Romania 4 days later.
THey will certainly put out their weakest combination against Romania seeing as it's 4 days after their match against Italy.
Then they play Canada 8 days later, and then they have 10 days to get ready for Ireland.
In effect, that means that their 1st choice players will play against Italy on day 1, and then have 4 days plus 8 days = 12 days between playing Italy and Canada.
They should put out their full team against Canada and take off their key players early if possible.
Then they will have 10 days to prepare for Ireland.

Ireland on the other hand play the two easier matches at the outset, first Canada (followed by 8 days rest) and then Romania, (followed by 7 days rest) before facing Italy,
and then have only 7 days rest before taking on France.
I'm not being negative for the sake of it, but, having looked at this schedule now, I think Ireland have a serious disadvantage going into that match with France.

I've been thinking about how best to work up to that match with France.

I think we need to put out a mixed team for the first 2 matches, then a full team against Italy and then a full team against France.
I would try not to put too much pressure on any player, but also certain players may need a lot of game time to peak against Italy and France.
It's a difficult balancing act so I don't know what Joe is going to do.

Here's my idea of how to prepare, but injuries could mean this would change anyway after the cup begins.

Against Canada:
1. McGrath, 2. Cronin, 3. White,
4. Toner, 5. Henderson,
6. Murphy, 7. Henry, 8. Heaslip,
9. Reddan, 10. Sexton,
11. D Kearney, 12. Cave, 13. Earls, 14. Bowe,
15. R Kearney.

16. Strauss, 17. Healy, 18. Furlong, 19. O'Connell, 20. O'Brien, 21. Murray, 22. Madigan, 23. Fitzgerald.

Against Romania:
1. Healy, 2. Strauss, 3. Furlong,
4. Ryan, 5. O'Connell,
6. O'Mahony, 7. Henry, 8. Murphy,
9. Reddan, 10. Jackson,
11. Fitzgerald, 12. Cave, 13. Earls, 14. Bowe,
15. Zebo.

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. White, 19. Henderson, 20. O'Brien, 21. Murray, 22. Madigan, 23. Payne.

Against Italy:
1. McGrath, 2. Best, 3. Ross,
4. Toner 5. O'Connell,
6. O'Mahony, 7. O'Brien, 8. Heaslip,
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
11. Fitzgerald, 12. Henshaw, 13. Payne, 14. D Kearney,
15. R Kearney.

16. Cronin, 17. Healy, 18. White, 19. Henderson, 20. Murphy, 21. Reddan, 22. Madigan, 23. Zebo.

Against France:
1. Healy, 2. Best, 3. Ross
4. Toner, 5. O'Connell,
6. O'Mahony, 7. O'Brien, 8. Heaslip,
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
11. Zebo, 12. Henshaw, 13. Payne, 14. D Kearney,
15. R Kearney.

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. White, 19. Henderson, 20. Henry, 21. Reddan, 22. Madigan, 23. Earls.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 5:36pm

Apparently Rob Kearney won't be back in full training until the second half of this week. Something wrong with his knee and he's on a reduced training schedule.

Slightly worrying considering we seem to be working with Zebo as second choice FB.

Just for the craic who would you call up if Rob K had to withdraw completely? Felix Jones as a specialist FB? Or move Payne back there given it's his natural position? Or rely on Jack of all trades, Ian Madigan?

redmca2 · 07-09-2015 5:39pm

smiley_face wrote: »

Against Italy:
1. McGrath, 2. Best, 3. Ross,
4. Toner 5. O'Connell,
6. O'Mahony, 7. O'Brien, 8. Heaslip,
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
11. Fitzgerald, 12. Henshaw, 13. Payne, 14. D Kearney,
15. R Kearney.

16. Cronin, 17. Healy, 18. White, 19. Henderson, 20. Murphy, 21. Reddan, 22. Madigan, 23. Zebo.

Against France:
1. Healy, 2. Best, 3. Ross
4. Toner, 5. O'Connell,
6. O'Mahony, 7. O'Brien, 8. Heaslip,
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
11. Zebo, 12. Henshaw, 13. Payne, 14. D Kearney,
15. R Kearney.

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. White, 19. Henderson, 20. Henry, 21. Reddan, 22. Madigan, 23. Earls.

Everything points to the fact that Henderson is where SOB was with Kidney before he broke into the first XV. On current form he will replace either Toner or POM.

Regarding Trimble, I definitely heard on some radio station a couple of weeks ago that he has a problem with games on Sundays a la Ewen Murray in Scotland ...... 3 of our pool matches are on Sundays, so that could explain a lot.

smiley_face · 07-09-2015 5:46pm

redmca2 wrote: »

Everything points to the fact that Henderson is where SOB was with Kidney before he broke into the first XV. On current form he will replace either Toner or POM.

Regarding Trimble, I definitely heard on some radio station a couple of weeks ago that he has a problem with games on Sundays a la Ewen Murray in Scotland ...... 3 of our pool matches are on Sundays, so that could explain a lot.

I heard that rumour, but don't believe it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 5:54pm

smiley_face wrote: »

I heard that rumour, but don't believe it.

He's played for Ireland before on a Sunday, why would it be any different now?

Here's an extract from an article a few years ago...

The World Cup rematch with Wales is on a Sunday. Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet.

Wang King · 07-09-2015 6:33pm

Buer wrote: »

You're right.

Bolt is actually with the squad!

You're dead to me!!!

The Pheasant2 · 07-09-2015 6:37pm

With his most recent year being a quiet one what with the injury problems etc. you could sometimes forget what an incredibly explosive and powerful player Healy is. On his day one of our few truly world class players. Here's hoping he makes his return in a big way for the RWC

Buer · 07-09-2015 6:46pm

Wang King wrote:

You're dead to me!!!

Finally!

total former · 07-09-2015 6:53pm

smiley_face wrote: »

After looking carefully at the schedule for the pool matches, and the way the matches are staggered, France have a real advantage.
They get to play Italy in their first match and then Romania 4 days later.
THey will certainly put out their weakest combination against Romania seeing as it's 4 days after their match against Italy.
Then they play Canada 8 days later, and then they have 10 days to get ready for Ireland.
In effect, that means that their 1st choice players will play against Italy on day 1, and then have 4 days plus 8 days = 12 days between playing Italy and Canada.
They should put out their full team against Canada and take off their key players early if possible.
Then they will have 10 days to prepare for Ireland.

Ireland on the other hand play the two easier matches at the outset, first Canada (followed by 8 days rest) and then Romania, (followed by 7 days rest) before facing Italy,
and then have only 7 days rest before taking on France.
I'm not being negative for the sake of it, but, having looked at this schedule now, I think Ireland have a serious disadvantage going into that match with France.

I've been thinking about how best to work up to that match with France.

I think we need to put out a mixed team for the first 2 matches, then a full team against Italy and then a full team against France.
I would try not to put too much pressure on any player, but also certain players may need a lot of game time to peak against Italy and France.
It's a difficult balancing act so I don't know what Joe is going to do.

I think our run of games is absolutely perfect, I don't think France have any advantage on that front at all.

Barring injury, the same XV will start against Canada, Italy and France, Joe just doesn't do chopping and changing mid tournament. Romania give us a good opportunity to rest before the heavy lifting but I don't think anyone will force their way in.

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-09-2015 7:49pm

total former wrote: »

Joe just doesn't do chopping and changing mid tournament.

How many tournaments has he taken teams to ?

gamma001 · 07-09-2015 7:53pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

With his most recent year being a quiet one what with the injury problems etc. you could sometimes forget what an incredibly explosive and powerful player Healy is. On his day one of our few truly world class players. Here's hoping he makes his return in a big way for the RWC

Two of the scrummaging clips are from the CC this year, so hopefully it won't be hard for him to find similar form on time!

stephen_n · 07-09-2015 7:55pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

How many tournaments has he taken teams to ?

I assume he means the two 6N he won.

I personally don't see us putting out full strength teams in the first two games but a good representation of the starting 15 will play in both.

Trabejo · 07-09-2015 8:05pm

philstar wrote: »

Trimble played a blinder on fri night, and yet he didn't make the squad

if he's got a foot injury what he doing playing?? or is there more to it then that??

Unfortunately the almighty strop that would occur if Zebo wasnt brought outweighs the form of Trimble. Certain sections of media and fans would do everything in their power to disrupt the squads preperation by constantly bringing up Zebo's exclusion. Keeping things tranquil is essential

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 8:15pm

Trabejo wrote: »

Unfortunately the almighty strop that would occur if Zebo wasnt brought outweighs the form of Trimble. Certain sections of media and fans would do everything in their power to disrupt the squads preperation by constantly bringing up Zebo's exclusion. Keeping things tranquil is essential

Personally I would have brought Zebo and left Fitzgerald at home.

awec · 07-09-2015 8:17pm

Trabejo wrote: »

Unfortunately the almighty strop that would occur if Zebo wasnt brought outweighs the form of Trimble. Certain sections of media and fans would do everything in their power to disrupt the squads preperation by constantly bringing up Zebo's exclusion. Keeping things tranquil is essential

If Trimble had travelled it would not have been at Zebo's expense.

I also would have brought him ahead of Fitzgerald.

total former · 07-09-2015 8:49pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Personally I would have brought Zebo and left Fitzgerald at home.

I think it was a straight shoot out between Dave Kearney and Trimble. Rightly or wrongly, Joe seems to regard Earls and Fitzgerald as centre/wing cover and DK and AT as pure wingers.

If that's right, i.e. that it was Trimble or Kearney, then it looks to have been the right call.

redmca2 · 07-09-2015 8:54pm

total former wrote: »

I think it was a straight shoot out between Dave Kearney and Trimble. Rightly or wrongly, Joe seems to regard Earls and Fitzgerald as centre/wing cover and DK and AT as pure wingers.

If that's right, i.e. that it was Trimble or Kearney, then it looks to have been the right call.

After Saturday's game you should have included Bowe in that comparison

vienne86 · 07-09-2015 8:54pm

total former wrote: »

I think it was a straight shoot out between Dave Kearney and Trimble. Rightly or wrongly, Joe seems to regard Earls and Fitzgerald as centre/wing cover and DK and AT as pure wingers.

If that's right, i.e. that it was Trimble or Kearney, then it looks to have been the right call.

And Bowe was nailed on? You're probably right.

awec · 07-09-2015 8:56pm

I think Bowe would still be a nailed on selection even if the squad was being picked this week.

total former · 07-09-2015 9:10pm

awec wrote: »

I think Bowe would still be a nailed on selection even if the squad was being picked this week.

Yeah, I think so. I think Joe would give him every chance to pull his socks up and try to show a bit of form. Credit in the bank etc.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 9:12pm

I'm sure Trimble used to play centre, at least for Ulster. Never did it for Ireland because BOD was there but if you can make Jared Payne a centre I don't see why someone who used to play the position can't do it too. A lot of the talk about selection seemed to centre around players who could play more than one position. Zebo seems to have been passable as a full back, although some disagree, they could have given Trimble the same opportunity to prove he could play somewhere else. Granted I know there's limited time and certain combinations need to be tested and all of that and I know the missing 8 months of rugby was an issue, or seems to be the reasoning they're falling back on but the more I think about it the more it seems like a coin toss kind of decision.

Podge_irl · 07-09-2015 9:14pm

Pretty sure Trimble did play centre for Ireland. He was a great strike runner but never really had the passing game for it.

Buer · 07-09-2015 9:15pm

AT has a few caps at centre although not for a good few years. Started there. Played 12 and 13.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 9:19pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pretty sure Trimble did play centre for Ireland. He was a great strike runner but never really had the passing game for it.

Buer wrote: »

AT has a fair few caps at centre although not for a good few years.

This makes the decision to play Payne there all the more confusing to me. You've got a number of players actually playing the position week in week out, a couple of guys who have played it in the past and Joe goes and picks a FB to play there. Unless Payne has played centre way back in the day?

Buer · 07-09-2015 9:22pm

Payne suits what Schmidt wants. Good hands, makes few errors, very strong both in possession and tackle, good positionally in centre and good talker/organiser.

Trimble is a lot of things but he's not all of the above.

Ulster would be better served by having Payne at 15 but not Ireland.

Utah_Saint · 07-09-2015 9:22pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This makes the decision to play Payne there all the more confusing to me. You've got a number of players actually playing the position week in week out, a couple of guys who have played it in the past and Joe goes and picks a FB to play there. Unless Payne has played centre way back in the day?

He played centre for a number of games at the Blues...

He's pretty good there but a much better fullback..

irishbucsfan · 07-09-2015 9:23pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This makes the decision to play Payne there all the more confusing to me. You've got a number of players actually playing the position week in week out, a couple of guys who have played it in the past and Joe goes and picks a FB to play there. Unless Payne has played centre way back in the day?

Andrew Trimble wasn't a great centre but he is a great winger. That's why he hasn't played there in years.

Payne did indeed play center in New Zealand before he came to Ireland.

phog · 07-09-2015 9:30pm

Trabejo wrote: »

Unfortunately the almighty strop that would occur if Zebo wasnt brought outweighs the form of Trimble. Certain sections of media and fans would do everything in their power to disrupt the squads preperation by constantly bringing up Zebo's exclusion. Keeping things tranquil is essential

Yes, Joe got a call from Philip Browne and was told in no uncertain terms that Zebo must be on the list. Apparently, that was the only demand from the IRFU. Joe did as he was told.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 07-09-2015 9:31pm

Okay, Payne as centre makes more sense then.

How about this though, if Rob Kearney got injured and was out of the WC, or an important match, would you put Payne at FB and go with a different centre pairing?

Podge_irl · 07-09-2015 9:32pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This makes the decision to play Payne there all the more confusing to me. You've got a number of players actually playing the position week in week out, a couple of guys who have played it in the past and Joe goes and picks a FB to play there. Unless Payne has played centre way back in the day?

Ah, Payne is a better centre than Trimble ever really was. The 13 position accentuates all of Trimble's faults, he's much better off on the wing.

alias no.9 · 07-09-2015 9:35pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This makes the decision to play Payne there all the more confusing to me. You've got a number of players actually playing the position week in week out, a couple of guys who have played it in the past and Joe goes and picks a FB to play there. Unless Payne has played centre way back in the day?

The best thing about Payne playing 13 is that even if someone else steps in next year, they don't have the burden of being the replacement for BOD. For whatever reason, Payne doesn't attract much critique in the media. Had Henshaw, Earls, Cave, Fitzgerald or any other Irish born and developed player... slotted straight in after BOD, there'd be incessant comparrisons.

total former · 07-09-2015 9:39pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Okay, Payne as centre makes more sense then.

How about this though, if Rob Kearney got injured and was out of the WC, or an important match, would you put Payne at FB and go with a different centre pairing?

I'd play Payne at FB.

I think Joe would leave Payne at centre and call Jones up.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

Comments