Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

flangemeistro · 16-09-2015 9:19am

Look even if Henderson is chosen over Toner (and rightly so IMO) let's say against Canada and Romania then the Toner fans will say "that's Joe not risking him against the minnows" on the flipside if Henderson is chosen over Toner against Italy and France then the Toner fans will say "Joe is keeping him fit for the quarter final".

They won't ever insinuate that Joe is making a mistake or even if they do they will just try to ignore they ever doubted him, do we all remember the "if Joe decides to bring only two specialist scrim halves it would be stupendously stupid" ? Exactly.

And they won't ever suggest or admit that Toner is our third best lock but his height up until now trumps Hendersons non line out qualities.

And the same goes for Bowe, he's a shadow of his 2011 self and I reckon if Trimble wasn't so injury prone and had his most recent one flare up then Bowe would be on the exercise bike in Kingspan and all the reputation and Lions tour credit in the bank has to be dismissed sooner than later.

Whatever happened to having no time for sentiment?

At the end of the day Joe has won us back to back Six nations and Autumn series and if he decides to put Ross at full back and Earls in at lock then I for one am not going to question or judge Joe because he is the only one who's got credit in the bank and he's got the silverware to back it up.

connachta · 16-09-2015 9:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

I just love the idea of Henderson off the bench. I don't think we have any other options that can start in the wings and come on and do damage.

Perhaps Earls when on Fire, or Reddan to change the pace of the game. But they're both maybes, Henderson's engine coming onto the pitch at 55 is a weapon.

You might be right, it could even be wise to use POC to full-power for just 50min, then Henderson

irishbucsfan · 16-09-2015 9:26am

I said it would be stupid to bring two scrum halves and I still think it's stupid. Why on earth take a risk when your starting scrum half has been concussed 3 times over the past year, it's irresponsible. I appreciate that they had tough calls to make but taking a risk at 9 makes me feel very uneasy.

As for Toner, I think he'll start against France. I'm fairly certain Henderson will start group games as well though. I'd be surprised if Toner doesn't start against France because it would require a change in approach compared to how we played them in the spring.

Saying that, I've watched Joe long enough now to know that anything is possible and he's certainly not afraid to take a risk.

Mr Tickle · 16-09-2015 9:28am

connachta wrote: »

You might be right, it could even be wise to use POC to full-power for just 50min, then Henderson

Am I right in thinking that in the 6N it was usually Toner that came off for henderson around this time?

Podge_irl · 16-09-2015 9:29am

flangemeistro wrote: »

if Henderson is chosen over Toner against Italy and France then the Toner fans will say "Joe is keeping him fit for the quarter final".

Then they would be delusional

flangemeistro wrote: »

They won't ever insinuate that Joe is making a mistake or even if they do they will just try to ignore they ever doubted him, do we all remember the "if Joe decides to bring only two specialist scrim halves it would be stupendously stupid" ? Exactly

I still think it's stupendously stupid and a completely unnecessary risk.

flangemeistro wrote: »

And they won't ever suggest or admit that Toner is our third best lock but his height up until now trumps Hendersons non line out qualities.

He could overall be the fourth best depending on how you want to look at it. He brings something the others don't in not just the lineout but also in the maul and they are both key to Ireland's gameplan.

I was pretty sure Toner would start a few months ago, far less so now.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 9:29am

I didn't realise Schmidt had been in Ireland years before he came to coach Leinster. There was a piece on RTÉ news about how he came here on a gap year in the early 90's and played for Mullingar, I think it was, and got involved in some coaching in a local secondary school. Not that it makes a blind bit of difference to what's happening now but it's interesting to know the relationship goes back a long way.

b.gud · 16-09-2015 9:41am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I didn't realise Schmidt had been in Ireland years before he came to coach Leinster. There was a piece on RTÉ news about how he came here on a gap year in the early 90's and played for Mullingar, I think it was, and got involved in some coaching in a local secondary school. Not that it makes a blind bit of difference to what's happening now but it's interesting to know the relationship goes back a long way.

Here it is for anyone who wants to see it http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2015/0915/727983-video-schmidts-early-days-in-mullingar/

total former · 16-09-2015 9:47am

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that in the 6N it was usually Toner that came off for henderson around this time?

Not really, Henderson was only getting about 10-15 mins per game in the 6N.

Mr Tickle · 16-09-2015 9:57am

total former wrote: »

Not really, Henderson was only getting about 10-15 mins per game in the 6N.

Ah right. thanks. I just remember him being subbed for toner rather than POC. didn't realise it was later.

connachta · 16-09-2015 10:01am

I still think it's better to push POC to his best for 50minutes than having him manage his engagement as a 35 y.o on the whole 80 minutes..

molloyjh · 16-09-2015 10:24am

bilston wrote: »

If Dave Kearney has a chance of taking the established Tommy Bowe's spot then I don't see how Iain Henderson doesn't have a chance of taking Devin Toner's place in the team. There is either competition for places or there isn't.

You're talking apples and oranges there really. For starters what Bowe brings to the table and what Dave brings to the table are very similar. That's not the case for Toner and Henderson. Secondly Bowes form for Ireland this year hasn't been great and he was downright poor in the warm ups. Toner has been consistently good for us for years and was pretty average in the warm ups.

Ultimately Henderson is more of a like for like with POC than he is Toner. If he replaces Toner than we need someone else to do the things we expect of Toner. Who will that be? If you can answer that then you can set up a scenario where he replaces Toner. We don't need all of our pack to be big strong carriers. There are other jobs we need guys there to do. I think too many people are getting blinded by that element of Hendersons game and ignoring a lot of other important aspects.

16-09-2015 10:32am

flangemeistro wrote: »

but his height up until now trumps Henderson

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why my fantasyrugger team is called "Devin Toner is only in the team because of his height"

rrpc · 16-09-2015 10:36am

connachta wrote: »

I still think it's better to push POC to his best for 50minutes than having him manage his engagement as a 35 y.o on the whole 80 minutes..

Well O'Connell played the full 80 in all the six nations matches this year. He also stayed on for 80 minutes in the last warm up match against Wales.

Having said that, Toner also put in two 80 minute shifts in the warm ups, so it's hard to create a rule of thumb for who is subbed and who isn't.

salmocab · 16-09-2015 11:38am

flangemeistro wrote: »

Look even if Henderson is chosen over Toner (and rightly so IMO) let's say against Canada and Romania then the Toner fans will say "that's Joe not risking him against the minnows" on the flipside if Henderson is chosen over Toner against Italy and France then the Toner fans will say "Joe is keeping him fit for the quarter final".

They won't ever insinuate that Joe is making a mistake or even if they do they will just try to ignore they ever doubted him, do we all remember the "if Joe decides to bring only two specialist scrim halves it would be stupendously stupid" ? Exactly.

And they won't ever suggest or admit that Toner is our third best lock but his height up until now trumps Hendersons non line out qualities.

Im sorry but this is nonsense, as far as I can see some people are on the Toner side some are on the Henderson side but pretty much everyone agrees its tight and that they both have different attributes in a match that suggest that they should start. I don't think anyone will really be all that upset either way.

dub_skav · 16-09-2015 11:50am

salmocab wrote: »

Im sorry but this is nonsense, as far as I can see some people are on the Toner side some are on the Henderson side but pretty much everyone agrees its tight and that they both have different attributes in a match that suggest that they should start. I don't think anyone will really be all that upset either way.

I'd say somebody's mother will be raging

16-09-2015 12:00pm

dub_skav wrote: »

I'd say somebody's mother will be raging

I know Kieran Marmion's was on here a lot before the squad announcement giving out.

salmocab · 16-09-2015 12:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I know Kieran Marmion's was on here a lot before the squad announcement giving out.

Her head will explode when we need to call up a 9 and Boss gets the call

molloyjh · 16-09-2015 1:17pm

salmocab wrote: »

Im sorry but this is nonsense, as far as I can see some people are on the Toner side some are on the Henderson side but pretty much everyone agrees its tight and that they both have different attributes in a match that suggest that they should start. I don't think anyone will really be all that upset either way.

Personally I'm on Irelands side. If we can get the same things from a pack without Dev and with Hendo than we can the other way around then I'd be more than happy to see Hendo start. I really like the guy. But unless that happens we're losing a particular skill set by dropping Toner. I am not in favour of that. If a re-jig can cover it off then fine but right now some people are looking to drop Toners skill set completely and not cover it off else where. That's the problem I have. It's got nothing to do with he individuals involved.

flangemeistro · 16-09-2015 1:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why my fantasyrugger team is called "Devin Toner is only in the team because of his height"

That makes two of us, luckily I'm in a completely different league. ; )

LorMal · 16-09-2015 1:28pm

salmocab wrote: »

Im sorry but this is nonsense, as far as I can see some people are on the Toner side some are on the Henderson side but pretty much everyone agrees its tight and that they both have different attributes in a match that suggest that they should start. I don't think anyone will really be all that upset either way.

Well, I think POC should also be considered in that mix. I doubt he is a nailed on starter in every game. Most likely Toner, Henderson and O' Connell will each have 50-60 mins and it will be fluid depending on form, fitness and the opposition at any given time.

connachta · 16-09-2015 2:46pm

salmocab wrote: »

Her head will explode when we need to call up a 9 and Boss gets the call

No need to overwhelm Marms, Boss has already been desperated enough when everyone here was telling him he was in the plane, and then.... No:D

total former · 16-09-2015 2:57pm

LorMal wrote: »

Well, I think POC should also be considered in that mix. I doubt he is a nailed on starter in every game. Most likely Toner, Henderson and O' Connell will each have 50-60 mins and it will be fluid depending on form, fitness and the opposition at any given time.

No-one will start every game, but it is beyond question that POC will start all the big ones, i.e. France, Italy and the knock-outs. Whatever competition there is (and the decisions are more than likely already made), O'Connell isn't competing with anyone.

Flipper22 · 16-09-2015 3:08pm

total former wrote: »

No-one will start every game, but it is beyond question that POC will start all the big ones, i.e. France, Italy and the knock-outs. Whatever competition there is (and the decisions are more than likely already made), O'Connell isn't competing with anyone.

Jamie might....

b.gud · 16-09-2015 3:13pm

Flipper22 wrote: »

Jamie might....

Jamie could, but I doubt we'll see him start against Georgia Romania. (Obviously we don't play Georgia

)

CatFromHue · 16-09-2015 3:13pm

Flipper22 wrote: »

Jamie might....

He did last time but there wasn't as much competition back then. I think it was known that Leamy was struggling.

Out of Murphy, Henry, SOB, POM, and Henderson he should be able to get a games rest this time around.

total former · 16-09-2015 3:17pm

Flipper22 wrote: »

Jamie might....

Yeah he might. Only 5 back-rows means either someone starts all the games, or we don't see a fully first-choice selection against Canada.

dub_skav · 16-09-2015 3:18pm

b.gud wrote: »

Jamie could, but I doubt we'll see him start against Georgia

Probably won't feature against namibia or uruguay either

aimee1 · 16-09-2015 3:25pm

total former wrote: »

Yeah he might. Only 5 back-rows means either someone starts all the games, or we don't see a fully first-choice selection against Canada.

Eh henderson might get a run in backrow in one of first two games

total former · 16-09-2015 3:42pm

aimee1 wrote: »

Eh henderson might get a run in backrow in one of first two games

Yeah, he might, but I'd regard him as "not first choice" in the back row.

b.gud · 16-09-2015 3:50pm

dub_skav wrote: »

Probably won't feature against namibia or uruguay either

D'oh not sure why I had Georgia in my head

dub_skav · 16-09-2015 3:58pm

b.gud wrote: »

D'oh not sure why I had Georgia in my head

Leslie91 · 16-09-2015 4:05pm

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but anyone know what the rules are around team announcements for the RWC games? when is Irish team being named? does the team need to be named no later than 24 hrs before KO or?

redmca2 · 16-09-2015 4:08pm

LorMal wrote: »

Well, I think POC should also be considered in that mix. I doubt he is a nailed on starter in every game. Most likely Toner, Henderson and O' Connell will each have 50-60 mins and it will be fluid depending on form, fitness and the opposition at any given time.

It may come as news to some, but there is a 4th lock in the squad ....... Donnacha Ryan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 6:28pm

Squad are at the airport ready to go.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 6:41pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 6:45pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 6:53pm

rrpc · 16-09-2015 7:16pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That Rob Kearney chap is such a scamp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 16-09-2015 7:17pm

I'd say Toner is a bit stuck for leg room on a standard Aer Lingus plane, no first class there.

errlloyd · 16-09-2015 7:24pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'd say Toner is a bit stuck for leg room on a standard Aer Lingus plane, no first class there.

He headed up early to ger an emergency exit seat (probably the only time in his whole career he'll be delighted to be in the front row). POC and donnacha Ryan are truly ****ed.

CatFromHue · 16-09-2015 7:25pm

Donnacha Ryan looks like a 5 year old who's been told to smile!

total former · 16-09-2015 7:36pm

https://instagram.com/p/7s02qSoGaQ/

Think Hendo was reading my posts about him from this morning, doesn't look happy.

Scythica · 16-09-2015 7:40pm

Jared looks like he's mammy's just set him off for the school bus with his homemade lunch in the bag

Stheno · 16-09-2015 7:49pm

total former wrote: »

https://instagram.com/p/7s02qSoGaQ/

Think Hendo was reading my posts about him from this morning, doesn't look happy.

PaddyJackson looks like a bemused dwarf in that last photo!

Wang King · 16-09-2015 11:04pm

SOB is some man for one man!

https://twitter.com/LucozadeSportIE/status/643757935462494208

Stheno · 16-09-2015 11:06pm

Wang King wrote: »

SOB is some man for one man!
https://twitter.com/LucozadeSportIE/status/643757935462494208

Sick!

Wang King · 16-09-2015 11:09pm

I liked the way Murray gave it a heft afterwards and a slight woah! spread across his face

awec · 16-09-2015 11:11pm

I hope that was filmed a while ago and we don't have first choice players lifting gas canisters for the craic a few days before their first game!

Wang King · 16-09-2015 11:13pm

awec wrote: »

I hope that was filmed a while ago and we don't have first choice players lifting gas canisters for the craic a few days before their first game!

Be the same as lifting Devin Toner

Stheno · 16-09-2015 11:14pm

Wang King wrote: »

I liked the way Murray gave it a heft afterwards and a slight woah! spread across his face

Sure when I was a child slave and my parents had a shop I hefted the orange gas canisters around the place for the craic!

awec wrote: »

I hope that was filmed a while ago and we don't have first choice players lifting gas canisters for the craic a few days before their first game!

Did you miss the video on the indo the of strength test between Murray and Heaslip?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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