Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

its_phil

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Maybe its because, even when half-fit, Earls is a better 13.

Oh FFS. Not this s*** again.

Just opens a lot of questions for me. Standard Joe really!

What does it mean for Zebo & Keatley?

Is Zebo a 6N starter unless one of the 3 wingers (I'm including Earls for the sake of this point) plays out of their skin? If so, where does it leave Zebo if 2 of the 3 have a super game?

Is Keatley a 6N starter unless Madigan puts in a big show? Is Keatley fit and available for this game but not playing? Is Keatley just not being risked in case we've a 6th/7th choice OH in the match day squad versus Italy?

The Ross / Moore / White scenario is going to be extremely interesting for the 6N.

SaveOurLyric

wittycynic wrote: »

It's difficult to tell. The Henshaw-Payne axis was rated by Joe as the best option at a time when both Earls and Fitzgerald were injured. It would be interesting to see what pecking order emerges.

One thing we can surmise is that Fitzgerald won't be playing 13 against Italy, as he'd surely be given a run out in that position in this game otherwise.

Its inconceivable that he would go for Earls at 13 ahead of Payne and Fitz. So the only conclusion that can be drawn since Fitz is not at 13, or out of the WH squad, the Fitz is either starting on the wing or benching. So Earls is not a factor to start. He may be benching if Fitz is on the wing - which would mean Zebo is not in the Italy 23. But if that were so, then he would be playing in the WH game. So, only conclusion is, Fitz is starting wing or bench, or the other way around with Zebo. And Earls is being given a run as the 3rd choice 13 to bring him up to Joe speed.

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Please detail 5 changes you'd like from the 23. Thank you

I'll save him the trouble..

Duncan Casey
Simon Zebo
Tommy O'Donnell
Ian Keatley
Stephen Archer

There's a pattern there but I can't figure out what it is...

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

We all (at least the vast majority of us) agree Luke has been playing very well for Leinster. But until I see Luke named in the Italy starting XV, I'm not buying that he has leapfrogged other players in Schmidt's mind just yet. I do think Schmidt will stick with Henshaw/Payne in centre, and everyone, even from the more southern reaches of the republic, agree Bowe is a cert, so it becomes a Q of Zebo v Fitzgerald v McFadden v Earls for the left wing spot. Honestly, any of those choices would be fine by me, and I have no idea which Schmidt will choose. The fact Earls is in the centre seems to suggest Luke is not viewed primarily as a centre by Joe.

I think Zebo is the most likely at 11. He's played a number of games in a row there for Ireland and he's playing pretty well for Munster. But I do think Schmidt really rates Fitzgerald. If you're in Schmidt's mind and you're thinking of starting him on the wing v Italy, it would be a bit of a risk to throw him straight in there when he hasn't played on the wing for months, so you'd give him this game to prove himself.

I think the time certain players are subbed will be telling

CIARAN_BOYLE

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Its inconceivable that he would go for Earls at 13 ahead of Payne and Fitz. So the only conclusion that can be drawn since Fitz is not at 13, or out of the WH squad, the Fitz is either starting on the wing or benching. So Earls is not a factor to start. He may be benching if Fitz is on the wing - which would mean Zebo is not in the Italy 23. But if that were so, then he would be playing in the WH game. So, only conclusion is, Fitz is starting wing or bench, or the other way around with Zebo. And Earls is being given a run as the 3rd choice 13 to bring him up to Joe speed.

Or Fitz is starting 12/13 and Payne is 23 meaning that Fitz is the wing cover and he hasn't played wing much this season.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

Just opens a lot of questions for me. Standard Joe really!

What does it mean for Zebo & Keatley?

Is Zebo a 6N starter unless one of the 3 wingers (I'm including Earls for the sake of this point) plays out of their skin? If so, where does it leave Zebo if 2 of the 3 have a super game?

Is Keatley a 6N starter unless Madigan puts in a big show? Is Keatley fit and available for this game but not playing? Is Keatley just not being risked in case we've a 6th/7th choice OH in the match day squad versus Italy?

The Ross / Moore / White scenario is going to be extremely interesting for the 6N.

I'm guessing Keatley is out of the running.

Zebo I'm not sure.

.ak

wittycynic wrote: »

It's difficult to tell. The Henshaw-Payne axis was rated by Joe as the best option at a time when both Earls and Fitzgerald were injured. It would be interesting to see what pecking order emerges.

One thing we can surmise is that Fitzgerald won't be playing 13 against Italy, as he'd surely be given a run out in that position in this game otherwise.

I wouldn't be surprised tbh, they don't need him to play at 13 for this game for them to pick him there. He's been arguably the best 13 in the country in the previous two months. What they're probably more interested in seeing is if he can still handle the pace on the wing.

Also I wouldn't be surprised to see him line out at 13 during the game tomorrow.

My biggest fear is he'll breakdown playing on the wing.

slingerz

Anyone else hear that Ireland are wearing their change strip tomorrow night?

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

Just opens a lot of questions for me. Standard Joe really!

What does it mean for Zebo & Keatley?

Is Zebo a 6N starter unless one of the 3 wingers (I'm including Earls for the sake of this point) plays out of their skin? If so, where does it leave Zebo if 2 of the 3 have a super game?

Is Keatley a 6N starter unless Madigan puts in a big show? Is Keatley fit and available for this game but not playing? Is Keatley just not being risked in case we've a 6th/7th choice OH in the match day squad versus Italy?

The Ross / Moore / White scenario is going to be extremely interesting for the 6N.

I think Zebo will start against Italy; Fitzgerald and McFadden are fighting it out for the 23 jersey IMO.

Keatley will possibly not even be in the 23 against Italy. I can't see any other reason why he's not included somewhere for tomorrow, but would Joe really throw Noel Reid in for the Italy game??

I think a good showing tomorrow will see Ross start in Rome.

Swiwi.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just opens a lot of questions for me. Standard Joe really!

What does it mean for Zebo & Keatley?

Is Zebo a 6N starter unless one of the 3 wingers (I'm including Earls for the sake of this point) plays out of their skin? If so, where does it leave Zebo if 2 of the 3 have a super game?

Is Keatley a 6N starter unless Madigan puts in a big show? Is Keatley fit and available for this game but not playing? Is Keatley just not being risked in case we've a 6th/7th choice OH in the match day squad versus Italy?

The Ross / Moore / White scenario is going to be extremely interesting for the 6N.

I just think we wouldn't ask the same Q about Bowe & R Kearney. We wouldn't say what does their non-selection mean for them? Zebo is the incumbent, I doubt he suddenly gets dropped altogether, so IMO this is a strong indication he is in the playing 23 for Italy, probably starting.

On the other hand, I think this is a bad sign for Keatley. Maybe he is suddenly viewed as the starting option at 10 for Italy, but man I'd be surprised. Maybe Joe is looking at Reid as a 12/10 cover for that game?? I favour Madigan getting the runout for the Wolfhounds to get him gametime at 10.

Keatley at 10 for Italy, that would get the keyboards tapping...!

Hagz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4trZacnlA8

slingerz

No excuses for the wolfhounds not playing as a unit especially in the forwards anyway

awec

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Essentially a second-choice Leinster side bolstered by a few lads from the other provinces and SOB. Unsurprising considering the make-up of Joe's original squad, but a disappointed and hugely conservative selection nonetheless. Can't imagine many Cork locals will make the trip.

Bent ahead of Cronin is nonsense. Only bright point is Earls at 13.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Maybe its because, even when half-fit, Earls is a better 13.

If you persist with this subtle and not-so-subtle provincial muck or tired old arguments you will find your access to this forum removed.

Consider this fair warning.

Goes for anyone else who tries this.

Swiwi.

Out of interest, is there a press conference where Schmidt explains his choices??

The Pheasant2

What about the other side? Saxons look to have a pretty strong backline although I'd argue we look stronger overall on paper...I wonder is English Lurker around to give his views on the Saxons team?

total former

slingerz wrote: »

No excuses for the wolfhounds not playing as a unit especially in the forwards anyway

Ian Henderson is going to wreck it. Joe should have called up Leo Cullen.

vienne86

So Joe give us much to ponder yet again. Madigan at 10, because he hasn't played there much, but 10 cover is Reid???? Henderson in the second row surprises me, but then who else? Mike Mac auditioning for the 19 jersey. But Earls at centre and Luke on the wing....I'm stunned, but maybe Joe just wants to see how these guys go in these positions.....they may be bench cover for the back row......Henshaw and Payne to start in centre next week so.

SOB's name on an Irish team......magic!

Tox56

Excluded 15

Cronin
Best
Moore
Toner
POC
POM
TOD/Murphy
Heaslip

Murray/Reddan
Keatley
Zebo
Henshaw
Payne
Bowe
Kearney

Think thats the team to start v italy with the exception of Cronin, Keatley and maybe TOD/Murphy, who could well be replaced by either Henderson or SOB. Although the fact theyre not playing tomorrow suggests to me theyre starting and Henderson + SOB will just be impact subs

Fireball07

Earls at 13, Fitz at 11 is very interesting. There are a few reasons as to why Joe might do this, and they might swap, but it is interesting.


Keatley left out completely is also interesting... if Sexton is missing, I am 99% sure Keatley will be in the 23 for Italy. It could mean that he is starting, maybe he's caught Joe's eye.

Because most of the other players left out, it looks like they'll now be starting- Zebo, Bowe, Kearney, Henshaw, Payne, Reddan/Murray, etc.

SOB is probably the big hope... if he can go well, he'll surely start. Possibly the same with Ross.


Think it's a bit silly D'Arcy playing an A game tbh though, not really much point.

mr. pleasant

you're all missing the main thing:

Buer

Interesting selection. Some are playing for places next week, others are playing to try and put themselves in the frame for the RWC squad.

I think it's a shoot out for the 23 jersey here and Zebo and Bowe will start on the wings. With that said, I'm not 100% that Payne will be jettisoned.

No real surprises throughout the side, to be honest. I think we can stick a fork in Ian Keatley's international career now. It's done.

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

So Joe give us much to ponder yet again. Madigan at 10, because he hasn't played there much, but 10 cover is Reid???? Henderson in the second row surprises me, but then who else? Mike Mac auditioning for the 19 jersey. But Earls at centre and Luke on the wing....I'm stunned, but maybe Joe just wants to see how these guys go in these positions.....they may be bench cover for the back row......Henshaw and Payne to start in centre next week so.

SOB's name on an Irish team......magic!

yeah, against Henderson though! Only one winner there imo

wittycynic

Very much scratching my head at the Keatley decision.

So, if Madigan is going to be 10 for Italy, I get playing him there in the WH match to give him more time in the position. I would also understand not playing at all in the WH game to protect him from possible injury.

With Keatley, I don't really understand the non-inclusion. Are we to assume that he is lower in the pecking order than Reid, who is picked ahead of him for the WH? If so, why bother call him up to the squad at all. Or are we to assume that he is actually the first choice pick for the Italy game and is, therefore, not being risked?

sydthebeat

that england forward pack is very light on international experience.

if we can nail our set pieces i can see this being a decent victory.

all depends on how out half backs play though

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Bent ahead of Cronin is nonsense. Only bright point is Earls at 13.

How is it nonsense? Bent has played 5/6 european games for leinster on both sides of the scrum this season and played quite well.

I dont read too much into the selection with a view to next week

Luke Marshall had a good game for Ulster last weekend. Had he been back in that shirt 3 weeks previously I reckon he'd have started this with D'Arcy not involved.

Hope to see him back and firing soon.

total former

Fireball07 wrote: »

Keatley left out completely is also interesting... if Sexton is missing, I am 99% sure Keatley will be in the 23 for Italy. It could mean that he is starting, maybe he's caught Joe's eye.

Rumour starts here: Keatley omitted because Sexton has had an early assessment and has been passed to play in Rome.

Fireball07 wrote: »

Think it's a bit silly D'Arcy playing an A game tbh though, not really much point.

This isn't a development side, it's a squad-building exercise for the 6N. I'd be surprised if Joe is as negative about D'Arcy as boards.ie

bilston

bilston wrote: »

We're not your friends Emmet

Well, this was harsh.

aimee1

wittycynic wrote: »

Very much scratching my head at the Keatley decision.

So, if Madigan is going to be 10 for Italy, I get playing him there in the WH match to give him more time in the position. I would also understand not playing at all in the WH game to protect him from possible injury.

With Keatley, I don't really understand the non-inclusion. Are we to assume that he is lower in the pecking order than Reid, who is picked ahead of him for the WH? If so, why bother call him up to the squad at all. Or are we to assume that he is actually the first choice pick for the Italy game and is, therefore, not being risked?

Im guessing Joe doesnt want to risk his two options in one game, If Madigan goes off with a knock/injury does he really need his last recognised 10 getting risked?

Bridge93

wittycynic wrote: »

Very much scratching my head at the Keatley decision.

So, if Madigan is going to be 10 for Italy, I get playing him there in the WH match to give him more time in the position. I would also understand not playing at all in the WH game to protect him from possible injury.

With Keatley, I don't really understand the non-inclusion. Are we to assume that he is lower in the pecking order than Reid, who is picked ahead of him for the WH? If so, why bother call him up to the squad at all. Or are we to assume that he is actually the first choice pick for the Italy game and is, therefore, not being risked?

Maybe Reid is more versatile? Would allow Joe to move people around more and see more players in different spots. Or maybe he has doubts about Darcy for whatever reason.

Swiwi.

total former wrote: »

Rumour starts here: Keatley omitted because Sexton has had an early assessment and has been passed to play in Rome.

I could actually buy that. If it's medically plausible.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

Maybe Reid is more versatile? Would allow Joe to move people around more and see more players in different spots. Or maybe he has doubts about Darcy for whatever reason.

Is he?

Keatley's played 10/12/15 at HEC level many times.

Sanjuro

mr. pleasant wrote: »

you're all missing the main thing:

Jaysus. Just reminds me how much I've missed his ludicrous talent.

wittycynic

aimee1 wrote: »

How is it nonsense? Bent has played 5/6 european games for leinster on both sides of the scrum this season and played quite well.

I dont read too much into the selection with a view to next week

Delighted to see Bent's inclusion. This is something of an international rehabilitation for him after being unjustly pilloried for a couple. On the tighthead side he stood up to a good South African scrum on his first cap and is a quality player. Bringing him back into the fold can only be good for Ireland.

case885

SOB steamrolling Burgess would be quite funny, ill have a front row view if he does

Big Nelly

Swiwi. wrote: »

I could actually buy that. If it's medically plausible.

No it's not. Sexton was on one of the podcasts discussing it. Because he has had 3-4 concussions he has to take a mandatory break. He cannot come back and play before that....even if he feels ok....end of story

Big Nelly

mr. pleasant wrote: »

you're all missing the main thing:

Bring's a tear to the eye

Still think his best bit of work was his tweet after the RWC final, he had missed it because he was running after cattle that had broke out!!

Swiwi.

wittycynic wrote: »

Delighted to see Bent's inclusion. This is something of an international rehabilitation for him after being unjustly pilloried for a couple. On the tighthead side he stood up to a good South African scrum on his first cap and is a quality player. Bringing him back into the fold can only be good for Ireland.

IMO Bent is a pretty decent LH, I would be somewhat anxious about him at TH at international level.

He is not as destructive round the field as Healy & McGrath, but scrums, carries and cleans out well, with the Kiwi panache for knowing how to catch, pass and draw a man, so he wouldn't discredit an Irish LH starting or bench spot IMO, and in an emergency could cover TH.

Bridge93

O' Briens left arm in that picture before you enter the video looks like something you'd see from Mr Tickle. Seems to go on longer than it should

CatFromHue

Swiwi. wrote: »

IMO Bent is a pretty decent LH, I would be somewhat anxious about him at TH at international level.

He is not as destructive round the field as Healy & McGrath, but scrums, carries and cleans out well, with the Kiwi panache for knowing how to catch, pass and draw a man, so he wouldn't discredit an Irish LH starting or bench spot IMO, and in an emergency could cover TH.

Paul Wallace was saying how well Bent was doing at LH on The Last Word the other night but that he wasn't up to it at TH.

Got a little dig in against George Hook too in that he was saying that some commentators saw him not doing well at TH and then just completely wrote him off as a prop altogether even though he's doing well at LH. He called those people lazy.....

Actually Horgan had a little dig at Hook too on An Irishman Abroad for commentators giving lazy analysis that is borderline bullying.

Neil3030

I think Earls at 13, Luke at 11 makes perfect sense for reasons previously offered - Joe has seen plenty of Luke at 13, time to give him a run at 11, and hasn't seen much of Earls at 13.

Looks likely that Payne and Henshaw will start next week, with Luke and Earls duking it out for the 23 shirt. But at the same time, I would not at all be surprised if either plays their way into contention for a starting spot. I think the days of a Wolfhounds selection precluding you from senior selection are over.

Also, considering the strength of the team, and that only one player (mike ross) would be considered a starter (if even), it just shows the incredible depth we have right now.

accidentprone1

The reason for the absence of Keatley is quite obvious, IMO, really.

Schmidt is playing Madigan at 10 to get him much-needed game time. He's not risking Keatley by placing him in the 23, as injury to both of them would leave us with Noel Reid as our starting outhalf, with feck-all on the bench.

Madigan will start against Italy, with Keatley on the bench.

aimee1

Buer wrote: »

I think we can stick a fork in Ian Keatley's international career now. It's done.

Round 5 in march, last minute, 10m line, sexton gone off with hamstring strain, Keatley, drop goal, grand slam at stake, ryle nugent creaming himself ........

Neil3030

Something like this for Italia then?

McGrath
Cronin
Moore
Toner
POC
POM
Murphy/TOD
Heaslip
Marmion
Madigan
Zebo
Henshaw
Payne
Bowe
Kearney

Strauss
Kilcoyne
Ross
Henderson
SOB
Boss
Keatley
Luke/Earls

dastardly00

aimee1 wrote: »

Round 5 in march, last minute, 10m line, sexton gone off with hamstring strain, Keatley, drop goal, grand slam at stake, ryle nugent creaming himself ........

........ Keatley messes up the drop-goal and the ball falls to Tommy Boooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeee to score a try? :pac:

BoardsMember

Good to see its on the telly, and not in a funny language either.

total former

BoardsMember wrote: »

Good to see its on the telly, and not in a funny language either.

Yeah, I'm sick of the BT coverage too. Can't understand any of Austin Healy's "banter".

errlloyd

BoardsMember wrote: »

Good to see its on the telly, and not in a funny language either.

Really

Cough
Though
Rough
Plough

Don't even come close to rhyming. It's a very funny language we speak, just no in the way you were suggesting.

aimee1

Neil3030 wrote: »

Something like this for Italia then?

McGrath
Cronin
Moore
Toner
POC
POM
Murphy/TOD
Heaslip
Marmion
Madigan
Zebo
Henshaw
Payne
Bowe
Kearney

Strauss
Kilcoyne
Ross
Henderson
SOB
Boss
Keatley
Luke/Earls

WH selection is to give lads some game time ahead of next week, Ross showed in November he can go full games and has had 3 weeks off, like McGrath.

I think Jordi did enough in euro games to get 7 next week.

I am praying Murray is good to go and Madigan is still in one piece come saturday morning


Backline could be about 9 different variations. Will see if Earls lasts 80 tomorrow or if he has to go off as a precaution. I dont see him being a starter next week if he compromises the bench that way. I think Fitz only got the 11 shirt because DK is out.