Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

bilston

Zzippy wrote: »

Why list them in order then contradict yourself by skipping on to Kearney in the discussion? Can Henshaw/POC be replaced by someone of a similar standard??? IMO Payne wouldn't be a step down from Kearney, think it would be less of a blow than people think if he was injured.

Not sure what you mean but anyway I will explain myself again. I listed Kearney because his replacement is Jones not Payne therefore IMO his replacement isn't of a similar standard. If Payne was his replacement then I wouldn't be so concerned. However it is clear Payne isn't his replacement so Kearney is on my list of irreplaceable players, alongside Sexton, POC, Murray and Heaslip. Everyone else is replaceable.

finatron

bilston wrote: »

I haven't a clue what I'm meant to have done wrong here but anyway I will explain myself again. I listed Kearney because his replacement is Jones not Payne therefore IMO his replacement isn't of a similar standard. If Payne was his replacement then I wouldn't be so concerned. However it is clear Payne isn't his replacement so Kearney is on my list of irreplaceable players, alongside Sexton, POC, Murray and Heaslip. Everyone else is replaceable.

I would add Ross to that list and drop Heaslip off it .
Ireland have a shead load of backrows that can fill in at 8 with out too much of a drop of in quality.

total former

finatron wrote: »

I would add Ross to that list and drop Heaslip off it .
Ireland have a shead load of backrows that can fill in at 8 with out too much of a drop of in quality.

There is a serious drop from Heaslip to either O'Brien or Murphy. They're not in the same league at all.

bilston

finatron wrote: »

I would add Ross to that list and drop Heaslip off it .
Ireland have a shead load of backrows that can fill in at 8 with out too much of a drop of in quality.

Disagree about Heaslip.

I know why you included Ross and I was tempted too as well but didn't Moore start ahead of him a bit for Leinster last season?

stephen_n

In terms of having a hope of winning it, only Murray and Sexton are irreplaceable IMO. Losing O'Connell, Heaslip or Henshaw would be a serious blow and pretty much anyone else has more than adequate cover to replace them.

Wang King

Personally I think I'd swap 1&2 and where the fck is Felix in that list?!! Disgraceful altogether

vkid

Re POL hat gate. ..It was early. I was cranky. Carry on

smiley_face

total former wrote: »

There is a serious drop from Heaslip to either O'Brien or Murphy. They're not in the same league at all.

Not true, the 6 nations proved it when Murphy replaced Heaslip seamlessly.
Quick check, and Murphy played roughly 200 minutes, Heaslip played roughly 230 minutes, and I don't remember any drop in standard when Murphy was on the pitch.

Podge_irl

Murphy was incredibly industrious but I don't think he seamlessly replaced Heaslip. I don't think a single backrow player we have outside of Heaslip would have made that try saving tackle against Hogg for example.

smiley_face

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, on a scale of worst to least worst, what is the order in which we can afford to lose likely 23 squad players before the RWC. My list as follows:

Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
POC
Henshaw
Best
SOB
Kearney
Jackson
Healy
Toner
Bowe
POM
Payne
Ross
Fitzgerald
Henderson
McGrath
Moore
Reddan
Cronin
Earls
Murphy

We have ample backup in every position, I think 13 is the one position we would struggle more than any other at the moment, so I'd put Payne higher up.
Don't agree Sexton or Murray are irreplaceable either.
We have plenty of talent at scrum-half and out-half.

smiley_face

Podge_irl wrote: »

Murphy was incredibly industrious but I don't think he seamlessly replaced Heaslip. I don't think a single backrow player we have outside of Heaslip would have made that try saving tackle against Hogg for example.

Why not? I just watched that tackle there and it was very lucky, two players rushed at Hogg so he had to check his run and sidestepped in front of Heaslip, who then threw his arms around him, I doubt he intentionally knocked the ball out of his hands, but even if he did it wasn't hugely technical or powerful, I don't see why any other player wouldn't have been able to do a similar wrap tackle.

Podge_irl

Our talent at scrum half behind Murray is useless. Either completely unproven with certain skill deficiencies (Marmion) or in on the edge of a precipitously downward slope (Boss, Reddan). Henshaw, Earls, Bowe are all better back up options for 13 than Boss/Reddan.

Sexton is not irreplacable, and Jackson is a serviceable to good backup but that would be it. Ireland are not winning a game of any importance with Madigan or Keatley at 10.

Podge_irl

smiley_face wrote: »

Why not? I just watched that tackle there and it was very lucky, two players rushed at Hogg so he had to check his run and sidestepped in front of Heaslip, who then threw his arms around him, I doubt he intentionally knocked the ball out of his hands, but even if he did it wasn't hugely technical or powerful, I don't see why any other player wouldn't have been able to do a similar wrap tackle.

Because I don't for a second think it was just luck. He knew exactly what he was trying to do and I think every other backrow we have would have simply tried hitting the guy as hard as possible. And I think you underestimate the technical difficulty of it.

Heaslip is far from perfect though he generally had an unglamorous role to play. But he's a very intelligent rugby player and I think we miss that with him gone

bilston

smiley_face wrote: »

We have ample backup in every position, I think 13 is the one position we would struggle more than any other at the moment, so I'd put Payne higher up.
Don't agree Sexton or Murray are irreplaceable either.
We have plenty of talent at scrum-half and out-half.

Murray is irreplaceable. There is no one close to him. Reddan is fine coming off the bench but given Ireland's gameplan Murray is absolutely vital.

As for Sexton, he has an adequate replacement in Jackson who is getting better all the time, but Sexton is Ireland's talisman now, and again like Murray suits the Irish gameplan and I'm not sure Jackson does as his kicking from hand in terms of contestables is still a work in progress.

As for 13 if Payne gets injured then Henshaw goes to 13 and someone else comes into 12. Losing Henshaw would be more of a blow as I'm not sure anyone else can come into 12. Presumably it would be Madigan. Cave has done pretty well there for Ulster and Fitzgerald has shown himself to be a good 12 before, however Joe doesn't appear to fancy Cave and seemingly sees Fitzgerald as a winger and only a winger.

12 is a position where we have gone from having two excellent players in D'Arcy and Wallace to having a bit of a lack of depth now to the point where we have converted Henshaw to IC. Hopefully in the future McCloskey develops quickly and Olding gets fit and stays fit. Right now it's a problem if something happens to Henshaw.

smiley_face

Podge_irl wrote: »

Our talent at scrum half behind Murray is useless. Either completely unproven with certain skill deficiencies (Marmion) or in on the edge of a precipitously downward slope (Boss, Reddan). Henshaw, Earls, Bowe are all better back up options for 13 than Boss/Reddan.

Sexton is not irreplacable, and Jackson is a serviceable to good backup but that would be it. Ireland are not winning a game of any importance with Madigan or Keatley at 10.

Reddan and Boss are not useless, and Marmion has looked good at times.
Paul Marshall, Duncan Williams and probably a few more would be well capable of stepping in.
They mightn't have the same attributes as Murray, as in good lengthy kicks and tall enough to carry the ball, but all of them can pass and keep up with the play, and that's 90% of a scrum-half's job done.
Stringer didn't take on the ball or kick much but made up for it by being probably the world's best passer of his generation, and let the guys outside do the kicking/running instead.

awec

smiley_face wrote: »

Reddan and Boss are not useless, and Marmion has looked good at times.
Paul Marshall, Duncan Williams and probably a few more would be well capable of stepping in.
They mightn't have the same attributes as Murray, as in good lengthy kicks and tall enough to carry the ball, but all of them can pass and keep up with the play, and that's 90% of a scrum-half's job done.
Stringer didn't take on the ball or kick much but made up for it by being probably the world's best passer of his generation, and let the guys outside do the kicking/running instead.

The only way Paul Marshall or Duncan Williams get anywhere near an Ireland jersey is when they buy one in Lifestyle Sports.

Podge_irl

bilston wrote: »

As for 13 if Payne gets injured then Henshaw goes to 13 and someone else comes into 12. Losing Henshaw would be more of a blow as I'm not sure anyone else can come into 12.

You're aware this makes absolutely no sense bilston...

smiley_face

[quote="bilston;96280482"
12 is a position where we have gone from having two excellent players in D'Arcy and Wallace to having a bit of a lack of depth now to the point where we have converted Henshaw to IC. Hopefully in the future McCloskey develops quickly and Olding gets fit and stays fit. Right now it's a problem if something happens to Henshaw.[/quote]

McCloskey could replace Henshaw right now, and also Hurley from Munster could step in. Both could do a similar job as Henshaw at inside centre.
Also D'Arcy or Reid could do a job, but offer different skill-sets.
I would prefer Cave though.

Podge_irl

smiley_face wrote: »

Reddan and Boss are not useless, and Marmion has looked good at times.
Paul Marshall, Duncan Williams and probably a few more would be well capable of stepping in.
They mightn't have the same attributes as Murray, as in good lengthy kicks and tall enough to carry the ball, but all of them can pass and keep up with the play, and that's 90% of a scrum-half's job done.
Stringer didn't take on the ball or kick much but made up for it by being probably the world's best passer of his generation, and let the guys outside do the kicking/running instead.

Marshall or Williams get near the squad and I'm betting every cent to my name on the opposition. They're barely capable of stepping in at provincial level.

Marmion is poor at getting out of his own half with a kicking game. That is absolutely a vital part of a 9's game. Boss is slow and getting slower and isn't really able to play a game at pace. Reddan brings a good change of pace but doesn't have the legs to play a long time and is more and more error prone.

They're all so far behind Murray it's laughable.

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

You're aware this makes absolutely no sense bilston...

Break it to me gently dude

Let's hope neither of them get injured and we'll leave it at that.

smiley_face

Podge_irl wrote: »

Marshall or Williams get near the squad and I'm betting every cent to my name on the opposition. They're barely capable of stepping in at provincial level.

Marmion is poor at getting out of his own half with a kicking game. That is absolutely a vital part of a 9's game. Boss is slow and getting slower and isn't really able to play a game at pace. Reddan brings a good change of pace but doesn't have the legs to play a long time and is more and more error prone.

They're all so far behind Murray it's laughable.

I don't see how kicking to get out of your half is a vital scrum-half role, I think the out-half can do that.
That's not true, Williams has really stepped up with Munster despite a few poor performances a couple of seasons ago, and Marshall is a good passer and quick around the pitch, he could do a good job for Ireland.
John Cooney and Luke McGrath seem to be very talented also.
I wouldn't worry about the replacements at scrum-half.
I'd be much more concerned with replacements at 13, and perhaps slightly concerned with backup for 6. Probably Diack is next up there, but he wasn't called into training camp.

awec

Williams and Marshall are both rubbish. Neither are anywhere close to international standard.

Podge_irl

smiley_face wrote: »

I don't see how kicking to get out of your half is a vital scrum-half role, I think the out-half can do that.
That's not true, Williams has really stepped up with Munster despite a few poor performances a couple of seasons ago, and Marshall is a good passer and quick around the pitch, he could do a good job for Ireland.
John Cooney and Luke McGrath seem to be very talented also.
I wouldn't worry about the replacements at scrum-half.
I'd be much more concerned with replacements at 13, and perhaps slightly concerned with backup for 6. Probably Diack is next up there, but he wasn't called into training camp.

Outhalf can't boxkick from the back of a ruck, which is very regularly required to clear your lines.

Marshall has a decent and pass and is indeed very quick but he is more headless than Reddan at his headless worst. Decision making is fairly key for a scrum half after all. Bowe has played 13 in a Lions test, Earls and Trimble have played internationally at 13, Fitz has excelled at 13 provincially at times, Henshaw was originally a 13 before moving in for Ireland and could easily do a job there. Cave is a reasonable, if slow back up in an emergency.

I think Henshaw/Payne is easily the strongest partnership we can put out but its not the end of the world if we lose one of them. Their replacements are a lot better than the aging or completely unproven or just downright useless players available at 9.

sydthebeat

I wouldn't be overly concerned if Jackson had to play against Italy or France.

Just sayin. ...

Podge_irl

sydthebeat wrote: »

I wouldn't be overly concerned if Jackson had to play against Italy or France.

Just sayin. ...

I wouldn't be convinced but I would be quite hopeful. He's got an absolutely lovely range of passing and knows when to use it. Ireland would play some nice rugby with him at 10. He hasn't yet displayed the same ability to play a controlling game like sexton but he's got a bundle of positives. More than you could say for Reddan for example.

total former

Reddan is an excellent player on a bad run of form. If he continues his form from this season into the World Cup then it's an issue. If he rediscovers his form of 2013/14 then he's plenty good enough.

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

I wouldn't be overly concerned if Jackson had to play against Italy or France.

Just sayin. ...

Italy, I'd actually like to see that.

France? No. I think they'd get to him.

He needs more experience on the international stage before he has to play the most important game in the pool stages. It'd be asking a lot.

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

Italy, I'd actually like to see that.

France? No. I think they'd get to him.

He needs more experience on the international stage before he has to play the most important game in the pool stages. It'd be asking a lot.

At this stage id put him in a par with plisson, who will likely start against Ireland. Yes they'd run hard lines down him but he's yet to be found wanting with that route of play, and arguably had a better taking technique than sexton against that type of player.

But yeah, it's the general game management that makes sexton as good as he is, and paddy isn't really any where near there yet. But like i say, should needs must and he had to line out against France I wouldn't be overly concerned because i think we can still beat them with him at the helm.

Swiwi.

Deleted User wrote: »

So, on a scale of worst to least worst, what is the order in which we can afford to lose likely 23 squad players before the RWC. My list as follows:

Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
POC
Henshaw

I agree with your top 5 but not the order. Murray is your biggest loss. His backups are frankly no longer starting international standard. I am going to do the unthinkable on this forum, and criticise Schmidt, but he has not found or given enough opportunity for a new scrumhalf to come forward. You'll be grand if Murray can start all the big games, but otherwise in big trouble.

Sexton at 2. However, way too many people on this forum are reluctant to give Jackson credit, but he's a decent 10, and would probably be fine for all except the biggest games.

POC at 3. He's the inspirational captain. Heaslip is a good player but not a great captain. Team might fall apart a bit with POC off the field.

Heaslip at 4. Henshaw at 5.

It's good to see Ireland has depth in most areas, halves (especially 9) is your Achilles' heel.

Swiwi.

Swiwi. wrote: »

I agree with your top 5 but not the order. Murray is your biggest loss. His backups are frankly no longer starting international standard. I am going to do the unthinkable on this forum, and criticise Schmidt, but he has not found or given enough opportunity for a new scrumhalf to come forward. You'll be grand if Murray can start all the big games, but otherwise in big trouble.

Sexton at 2. However, way too many people on this forum are reluctant to give Jackson credit, but he's a decent 10, and would probably be fine for all except the biggest games.

POC at 3. He's the inspirational captain. Heaslip is a good player but not a great captain. Team might fall apart a bit with POC off the field.

Heaslip at 4. Henshaw at 5.

It's good to see Ireland has depth in most areas, halves (especially 9) is your Achilles' heel.

All fair points but I stand by my order. Reddan hasn't had a great season for Leinster but went well for Ireland during the 6N and this just wasn't Leinsters year. He is a highly experienced scrummy with a lot of medals to his name so I for one consider the Murray - Reddan gap to be narrower than the Sexton to Jackson.

I also consider Sexton's impact on the game to be greater than Murrays which again impacts the loss it would have to us.

As for Poc v Heaslip, we just don't have other experienced natural full time 8s in the squad that match the set piece play that Heaslip has. I think we can replace POC easier than Heaslip but would hate to lose either.

Swiwi.

Deleted User wrote: »

All fair points but I stand by my order. Reddan hasn't had a great season for Leinster but went well for Ireland during the 6N and this just wasn't Leinsters year. He is a highly experienced scrummy with a lot of medals to his name so I for one consider the Murray - Reddan gap to be narrower than the Sexton to Jackson.

I also consider Sexton's impact on the game to be greater than Murrays which again impacts the loss it would have to us.

As for Poc v Heaslip, we just don't have other experienced natural full time 8s in the squad that match the set piece play that Heaslip has. I think we can replace POC easier than Heaslip but would hate to lose either.

Not starting though. 20 minutes at the end of a game is just not the same. I reckon you have to start a RWC knockout game with Reddan or Boss starting and Reddan or Boss on the bench, and it's going to be a long 80 minutes.

Actually without Sexton & Murray, I have no idea what gameplan Schmidt could successfully play to beat the other top 5 nations. I don't really think there is one. Best bet would be to load up the side with strong ball carriers like Henderson, SOB, Healy etc I would think.

matthew8

Reddan was international standard as recently as the 6 nations. There's a good chance he can find form. Who could Schmidt possibly have blooded at scrum half? Marmion couldn't get ahead of Cooney at the end of the season at Connacht. There's simply no one else good enough. Think it's really harsh to say Heaslip's not a great captain. I think he did an excellent job in that role for Leinster this season, felt you could really notice a difference in the way the rest of the team played with him in the team.

total former

matthew8 wrote: »

Reddan was international standard as recently as the 6 nations. There's a good chance he can find form. Who could Schmidt possibly have blooded at scrum half? Marmion couldn't get ahead of Cooney at the end of the season at Connacht. There's simply no one else good enough. Think it's really harsh to say Heaslip's not a great captain. I think he did an excellent job in that role for Leinster this season, felt you could really notice a difference in the way the rest of the team played with him in the team.

Agree re scrum half. Marmion has been in plenty of squads and Joe just doesn't seem to rate him, I'm not sure what else Joe can do to bring guys through.

I don't think Heaslip is a great captain tbh, at least not when you compare him to POC, BOD, Cullen etc.

Swiwi.

matthew8 wrote: »

Reddan was international standard as recently as the 6 nations. There's a good chance he can find form. Who could Schmidt possibly have blooded at scrum half? Marmion couldn't get ahead of Cooney at the end of the season at Connacht. There's simply no one else good enough. Think it's really harsh to say Heaslip's not a great captain. I think he did an excellent job in that role for Leinster this season, felt you could really notice a difference in the way the rest of the team played with him in the team.

Well we can definitely agree that you never agree with me these days, that's for sure.

I'm not in the anti-Heaslip brigade, but neither for Leinster not Ireland have I ever thought he was a world class captain. Just my opinion. I think he has enough of job just concentraing on playing the game well at 8, which is a very tough roll at international level, without worrying about the rest.

Sorry, just think Reddan is past it. He wouldn't get a Super Rugby contract, and his end of season with Leinster was nigh on diabolical. Other options might not have worked out, but they have never been tried in any match of note. Gerogia might have had an experiment at 9, I can't remember. Reddan is generally still OK (certainly under Schmidt) as a sub, but starting a knockout match against NZ/Eng/SA/AUS etc, not convinced.

bilston

Swiwi. wrote: »

Well we can definitely agree that you never agree with me these days, that's for sure.

I'm not in the anti-Heaslip brigade, but neither for Leinster not Ireland have I ever thought he was a world class captain. Just my opinion. I think he has enough of job just concentraing on playing the game well at 8, which is a very tough roll at international level, without worrying about the rest.

Sorry, just think Reddan is past it. He wouldn't get a Super Rugby contract, and his end of season with Leinster was nigh on diabolical. .

Here's a slightly naughty question Swiwi, how many Irish players in the 41 man squad do you think would fail to get a Super Rugby contract with a NZ franchise?

.ak

I think for Leinster he's been a great captain. There's noticeable drop in direction and decision making when he's not around. Outside of that it's hard to tell how good a captain is.

He had a poor run as captain during the shambles of the last season under kidney but it was a bad time for him to try and imprint on squad in disarray. I'd be happy to see him take over after POC.

Swiwi.

bilston wrote: »

Here's a slightly naughty question Swiwi, how many Irish players in the 41 man squad do you think would fail to get a Super Rugby contract with a NZ franchise?

Ah honestly, I'm not going to go down that route! Super Rugby is generally played at speed on hard surfaces, it can't be automatically compared to the NH. There are facets of the NH game that SH teams don't cope well with. A NH side may well win the RWC. But NZ teams now put a high emphasis on a lightning quick halfback, and at 35 (?) Reddan is just not that man anymore.

I compare him a bit to Andy Ellis, they're very similar, and it is clear Ellis is just too slow these days for the NZ game.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

I think for Leinster he's been a great captain. There's noticeable drop in direction and decision making when he's not around. Outside of that it's hard to tell how good a captain is.

He had a poor run as captain during the shambles of the last season under kidney but it was a bad time for him to try and imprint on squad in disarray. I'd be happy to see him take over after POC.

I'd say it will either be Heaslip or O'Mahony taking over from POC. Sexton and Kearney are two other options but play the wrong position to skipper a team IMO. Not sure if Murray is captaincy material, but again I'm wary about having a half back as captain as they have enough to be getting on with without worry about team talks and all that goes with being skipper. Best could be another but he is what 32 or 33 and after the WC I'd expect Cronin to put him under a bit more pressure.

bilston

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah honestly, I'm not going to go down that route! Super Rugby is generally played at speed on hard surfaces, it can't be automatically compared to the NH. There are facets of the NH game that SH teams don't cope well with. A NH side may well win the RWC. But NZ teams now put a high emphasis on a lightning quick halfback, and at 35 (?) Reddan is just not that man anymore.

I compare him a bit to Andy Ellis, they're very similar, and it is clear Ellis is just too slow these days for the NZ game.

Well I tried!

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

Well I tried!

There's a lot of dross as well in the super xv, soon to be super xviii.

I don't think there's any Irish player in the 41 that wouldn't get onto the cheetahs or kings squads.

Boss would be the player most would pick out id guess, and if jimmy cowen can still get a contract so can our Isaac.

Podge_irl

total former wrote: »

Reddan is an excellent player on a bad run of form. If he continues his form from this season into the World Cup then it's an issue. If he rediscovers his form of 2013/14 then he's plenty good enough.

Maybe. But bad runs of form at players his age have a much larger chance of being terminal. I agree with Swiwi, no matter how good he's been off the bench (and he fulfills that role very well for Ireland) I simply wouldn't trust him in the slightest to start an important game for Ireland. That said, I don't think Schmidt could have done much more. Marmion is infuriating for keeping Connacht in the wrong areas of the pitch at times and that's what is working against him. Would still have liked to see him get some more chances but it's much of a muchness. Behind Murray we're screwed.

stephen_n

smiley_face wrote: »

We have ample backup in every position, I think 13 is the one position we would struggle more than any other at the moment, so I'd put Payne higher up.
Don't agree Sexton or Murray are irreplaceable either.
We have plenty of talent at scrum-half and out-half.

Who is even remotely close to Murray? One of the best 10's in the world is easily replaceable? No player is irreplaceable but the drop in talent to losing either of those two would be so massive as to effect the way the team can Function. Henshaw could easily move to 13 if Payne was out and we have other options at 12, there would be a lose there but not one that impact our ability in any major way.

molloyjh

Murray is the no 1 "irreplaceable" in the team. We don't have another scrum half even close. The talk about Reddans form is far more in hope than expectation at this stage.

We do need to see Jackson getting some decent game time in the warm-ups though. If he's our back-up 10 then he needs to be involved heavily. He has barely played for Ireland under Joe and he cannot be the back-up 10 with no game time. And Mads simply isn't good enough.

total former

This "Murray vs Sexton" debate is the most ridiculous argument there's been in quite a while.

salmocab

total former wrote: »

This "Murray vs Sexton" debate is the most ridiculous argument there's been in quite a while.

the worst part is its more of a Reddan vs Jackson debate

total former

total former wrote: »

This "Murray vs Sexton" debate is the most ridiculous argument there's been in quite a while.

Yeah but it's artificially constructed nonsense to fill the gap until there are games again.

On a related note: Zebo, fat or big boned?

smiley_face

stephen_n wrote: »

Who is even remotely close to Murray? One of the best 10's in the world is easily replaceable? No player is irreplaceable but the drop in talent to losing either of those two would be so massive as to effect the way the team can Function. Henshaw could easily move to 13 if Payne was out and we have other options at 12, there would be a lose there but not one that impact our ability in any major way.

Sexton and Murray are our first choice players, no doubt, but it's not as if we don't have any other players that can play those positions.
The backup may not be as good, but it wouldn't be as catastrophic as some people are posting here.
They are all good professional players with plenty of talent to do a job for Ireland in the World Cup if they get the opportunity.
The reason I think 13 is a position of more concern is that Payne is the Ulster first choice 13, and the other Provinces have NIQ players in those positions, so not only would there be a lack of internationally capped 13s there is also a lack of 13s that play regularly for the provinces. Moving Henshaw to 13 and bringing in a new 12 would involve changing 2 positions to accommodate one injury, and especially risky if it results in an unproven/unfamiliar combination.
That's why I think Cave has to get into the 31, and should get plenty of game time in the warm-ups at 12 and 13.

stephen_n

smiley_face wrote: »

Sexton and Murray are our first choice players, no doubt, but it's not as if we don't have any other players that can play those positions.
The backup may not be as good, but it wouldn't be as catastrophic as some people are posting here.
They are all good professional players with plenty of talent to do a job for Ireland in the World Cup if they get the opportunity.
The reason I think 13 is a position of more concern is that Payne is the Ulster first choice 13, and the other Provinces have NIQ players in those positions, so not only would there be a lack of internationally capped 13s there is also a lack of 13s that play regularly for the provinces. Moving Henshaw to 13 and bringing in a new 12 would involve changing 2 positions to accommodate one injury, and especially when there's an unproven combination.
That's why I think Cabe has to go on the 31, and should get plenty of game time in the warm-ups at 12 and 13.

Have you watched Ireland play under Schmidt? Reddan box kicking gives me nightmares, as much as PJ can move a back line, he has never demonstrated anything near Sextons ability to control a game and more importantly to execute the game plan Ireland currently play. The half backs run the game and implement the game plan, their is no more pivotal role on the pitch, yes players can come in and do a job but no those players can't do it to anywhere near the same level, which can't be said in any other position on the pitch.

smiley_face

stephen_n wrote: »

Have you watched Ireland play under Schmidt? Reddan box kicking gives me nightmares, as much as PJ can move a back line, he has never demonstrated anything near Sextons ability to control a game and more importantly to execute the game plan Ireland currently play. The half backs run the game and implement the game plan, their is no more pivotal role on the pitch, yes players can come in and do a job but no those players can't do it to anywhere near the same level, which can't be said in any other position on the pitch.

If all Reddan has to do is practice kicking the ball high in the air then I'm sure he can prepare himself over the next 3 months,
And by controlling the game, if you mean kicking to find touch then I'm sure Jackson can work on that too.
Those are relatively small aspects of the game that can be improved on with practice, I wouldn't be too worried if that's all they are lacking at the moment.

irishbucsfan

smiley_face wrote: »

If all Reddan has to do is practice kicking the ball high in the air then I'm sure he can prepare himself over the next 3 months,
And by controlling the game, if you mean kicking to find touch then I'm sure Jackson can work on that too.
Those are relatively small aspects of the game that can be improved on with practice, I wouldn't be too worried if that's all they are lacking at the moment.

They are not relatively small aspects of the game. They're absolutely vital and they've been the most important aspect of the game for us many times. It's a lot more than just practising "kicking the ball high in the air," that's quite a naive statement.