Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

smiley_face

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think we'll see Heaslip rested and POC starting and captaining. There's not a huge amount of value playing him again, we're not learning anything.

Might be worth starting Conan. He likely won't travel but he offers value as a natural 8 who can allow the flankers in the squad to start at their natural positions. I'd like to see POM Henry and Conan. It also might be worth seeing SOB at 8.

Yes, you have a point there in resting Heaslip. It depends how tired he is, I think he came off early enough yesterday, and it wasn't a very tough match so I think he'll be okay, considering he'll have 2 weeks off after that, and he will play 80 mins in our bigger matches so he could do with the match fitness.
I would like to see SOB at 8 more than Conan though.

total former

I'd prefer to see Murphy start at 8; he'll be playing there if Heaslip gets injured at the RWC.

smiley_face

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Murphy impressed at 8 against England. Wouldn't mind giving him a go in a backrow of

POM
Henry
Murphy

Yes, Murphy is backup 8 for sure, but he played the full 80 yesterday and looked tired at the end, understandable as worked hard, and Heaslip came off at 54 minutes, so should have loads in the tank for Scotland.

Tox56

smiley_face wrote: »

Yes, Murphy is backup 8 for sure, but he played the full 80 yesterday and looked tired at the end, understandable as worked hard, and Heaslip came off at 54 minutes, so should have loads in the tank for Scotland.

Give Murphy 50-60 mins and replace him with Conan or Heaslip

smiley_face

Tox56 wrote: »

Give Murphy 50-60 mins and replace him with Conan or Heaslip

Could do that, would rather release Conan to play with Leinster and assess that match separately.
We haven't seen POM or SOB yet in the warm-ups, and only a brief amount of Henry.
Perhaps would be best to start with those 3 (SOB at 8) with Heaslip off the bench, and give Murphy a deserved rest.

dregin

A mate just spotted Trimble in The Phoenix Park with a cast/boot on. Hopefully it's only precautionary. At least he's not been sent home.

awec

I think he needs to play significant amounts of time in the next three games to have a shot of going though.

Stheno

dregin wrote: »

A mate just spotted Trimble in The Phoenix Park with a cast/boot on. Hopefully it's only precautionary. At least he's not been sent home.

Fingers crossed.

bilston

awec wrote: »

I think he needs to play significant amounts of time in the next three games to have a shot of going though.

His 36 minutes yesterday were excellent though and that alone suggests he is as ready as anyone.

.ak

Any idea what trimble's injury is?

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

Any idea what trimble's injury is?

Someone said somewhere it's a foot sprain

total former

.ak wrote: »

Any idea what trimble's injury is?

Foot sprain. Apparently he would have been taken off at half time regardless so if he gets back training quickly he shouldn't lose out too much.

P_1

2nd in the rankings now apparently

Wang King

P_1 wrote: »

2nd in the rankings now apparently

Stephen Jones doesn't agree

Stheno

Wang King wrote: »

Stephen Jones doesn't agree

Good for us then?

Does he ever see anything Irish positive?

Zzippy

Wang King wrote: »

Stephen Jones doesn't agree

Normally I find his opinions objectionable to say the least, but he may have a point. I don't think we play the SH sidesd often enough to be able to rank teams from both hemispheres against each other. After yesterday's win against NZ I'd have Australia in second. While our win was a capped test, it was really anything but...

sydthebeat

Wang King wrote: »

Stephen Jones doesn't agree

Stephen Jones can go suck on my salty.......

Stheno

Zzippy wrote: »

Normally I find his opinions objectionable to say the least, but he may have a point. I don't think we play the SH sidesd often enough to be able to rank teams from both hemispheres against each other. After yesterday's win against NZ I'd have Australia in second. While our win was a capped test, it was really anything but...

That's a fair point.

Teferi

Stephen "I really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate the Irish" Jones.

errlloyd

I disagree that Ireland don't be deserved to be ranked second. Rankings are designed to reflect quite a long period of form, we're not the second best team in the world, but over the rankings period we are worthy.

Btw. I don't know what we call that trophy you get when you best the team who has it (international version of ranfarly shield) but I think we have it again.

molloyjh

Teferi wrote: »

Stephen "I really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate the Irish" Jones.

In fairness the price as a whole was complimentary from what I've read. He just questioned the way the rankings work. Which is fair enough.

Teferi

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness the price as a whole was complimentary from what I've read. He just questioned the way the rankings work. Which is fair enough.

Stephen Jones could write "The sky is blue." and I'd still stick my head out the window to make sure he wasn't talking shite.

thebaz

I know we have moved on - under professionalism and under Joe - but I still don't like being ranked so high - South Africa doing so badly , will probably drive them on to do well WC time - call me old school and hopefully wrong , but witnessed too many WC dissapointments.


Stepehn Jones - I just ignore his petty chilidish jingoism.

total former

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/tommy-o-donnell-s-injury-clouds-cardiff-win-1.2311843

“We won’t be putting out a new fifteen,” Schmidt said of next Saturday’s game at home to Scotland. “There will be guys who double up and it may be that the guys who double up will come from the bench to the starting line-up and maybe there will be a couple who get out there and start again."

Think I'd like to see Ryan start again alongside Tuohy, and Murphy at 8 with POM and Henry either side. I'd love to see Strauss start too but it's unlikely. Might see Ross start again if Moore is still a bit off.

rrpc

Zzippy wrote: »

Normally I find his opinions objectionable to say the least, but he may have a point. I don't think we play the SH sidesd often enough to be able to rank teams from both hemispheres against each other. After yesterday's win against NZ I'd have Australia in second. While our win was a capped test, it was really anything but...

To be fair, it's so close as to be almost joint second. I calculate Ireland at 86.89 and Australia at 86.84.

If Australia are beaten by New Zealand next week, they'll drop a bit, but not by much (about 0.1 ranking points) so it should remain pretty close.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/tommy-o-donnell-s-injury-clouds-cardiff-win-1.2311843



Think I'd like to see Ryan start again alongside Tuohy, and Murphy at 8 with POM and Henry either side. I'd love to see Strauss start too but it's unlikely. Might see Ross start again if Moore is still a bit off.

Might be worth seeing Bent start at TH just because he has played a lot of rugby at LH recently and I'm sure he would appreciate the opportunity to get back into it, if he's going as a 5th prop it could be a real option. Also the last chance to do that really...

b.gud

errlloyd wrote: »

Btw. I don't know what we call that trophy you get when you best the team who has it (international version of ranfarly shield) but I think we have it again.

That's right we got it when we beat South Africa back in November. and then lost it to Wales during the 6 nations.

It's a not an official trophy and there is no actual silverware but there is a website that tracks who the current holder is. I can't find it because I can't remember the name of the trophy, even after numerous Google searches, and it's absolutely wrecking my head :mad:

Awesomeness

b.gud wrote: »

That's right we got it when we beat South Africa back in November. and then lost it to Wales during the 6 nations.

It's a not an official trophy and there is no actual silverware but there is a website that tracks who the current holder is. I can't find it because I can't remember the name of the trophy, even after numerous Google searches, and it's absolutely wrecking my head :mad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeburn_Shield

https://twitter.com/RaeburnShield

http://www.raeburnshield.com/

b.gud

Awesomeness wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeburn_Shield

https://twitter.com/RaeburnShield

http://www.raeburnshield.com/

Thank you I can now continue on with my day

The Pheasant2

For Scotland:

McGrath
Strauss
Ross (Moore if fit)
Tuohy
Henderson
POM (C)
Henry
Murphy

Reddan
Jackson
Fitzgerald
Henshaw
Payne
Trimble (DK if not fit)
Zebo

Best
Kilcoyne
Bent (on at 40)
Ryan
SOB
Marmion
Madigan
Earls

sydthebeat

assuming joe will play as close to starting xv as possible v wales and england.....

McGrath
Strauss
Bent
Ryan
Touhy
POM
Henry
Murphy

Marmion
Madigan
Fitzgerald
D'arcy
Earls
DK
Zebo

Best
Kilcoyne
Ross
Hendo
Heaslip
Boss
jackson
Cave

Noopti

All I can say is it is bloody great that there are so many really close calls, with players grabbing their chances. It is a fantastic state of affairs that a lot of players will feel genuinely gutted to be missing out (horrible for the players in question of course).

Quint2010

Tommy O'Donnell out of World Cup. Dislocated hip.

smiley_face

Quint2010 wrote: »

Tommy O'Donnell out of World Cup. Dislocated hip.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/world-cup/injury-is-end-of-the-world-cup-dream-for-tommy-odonnell-31438459.html

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2015/0810/720354-odonnell-ruled-out-of-world-cup-squad/

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/worst-fears-confirmed-as-dislocated-hip-rules-tommy-odonnell-out-of-world-cup-31440261.html



Trimble to get a scan on his foot during the week.

Stheno

smiley_face wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2015/0810/720354-odonnell-ruled-out-of-world-cup-squad/

Poor fecker

total former

Sure look it was obvious right away he was out of the world cup, the best he could hope for was a quick return to Munster but sounds like he'll be out for a few months at least.

Why is it generally accepted that Jackson is a better OH than Madigan?

shuffol

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it generally accepted that Jackson is a better OH than Madigan?

Because he plays better than Madigan does and has a better skillset for the position.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it generally accepted that Jackson is a better OH than Madigan?

Because he is?

You're saying it like it's some popular opinion people are just following... But the truth is Jackson does the basics of an outhalf far better than Madigan, and his distribution is probably the best out of all the outhalves.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it generally accepted that Jackson is a better OH than Madigan?

The only facet of the game I'd take Madigan over Jackson is in trying to break a defensive line with his feet.

That's about it.

Maybe place kicking, but Jackson can and will be back up there with his kicking stats imo.

dregin

So, who's the backup 7 now??

dregin

dregin wrote: »

So, who's the backup 7 now??

Henry

total former

.ak wrote: »

Because he is?

You're saying it like it's some popular opinion people are just following... But the truth is Jackson does the basics of an outhalf far better than Madigan, and his distribution is probably the best out of all the outhalves.

Well, it is opinion, it's far from established fact.

I don't think Madigan is an international level out half.

However, I would seriously question whether Jackson has ever really shown that he is one either.

.ak

total former wrote: »

Well, it is opinion, it's far from established fact.

I don't think Madigan is an international level out half.

However, I would seriously question whether Jackson has ever really shown that he is one either.

Which is fair enough, but at club level Jackson has shown many times he's a far better outhalf than Madigan.

Also, Joe has said that if Sexton was injured he'd be starting Jackson ahead of Madigan. And then when Sexton was injured and Jackson wasn't available Madigan still didn't start.

If it's not established fact that Jackson is ahead of Madigan then I'm the Cookie Monster's estranged father.

awec

total former wrote: »

Well, it is opinion, it's far from established fact.

I don't think Madigan is an international level out half.

However, I would seriously question whether Jackson has ever really shown that he is one either.

Everything is an opinion given there's no way to conclusively prove otherwise.

The best you can hope for is an educated opinion based on performances and ability and I think it has been pretty well established over the past year and a bit that Jackson is a step above Madigan at 10.

sydthebeat

i think the fact that Jackson is the recognised senior 10 at his province whereas Madigan has never been is a tangible fact

dregin

Deleted User wrote: »

Henry

Yeah, completely blanked on him. Grand.

total former

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think the fact that Jackson is the recognised senior 10 at his province whereas Madigan has never been is a tangible fact

Jackson has never had to compete with anyone of the quality of Gopperth, let alone of Sexton.

It was a great show of faith in him by Ulster, fair enough, but he's had zero competition.

total former

.ak wrote: »

Which is fair enough, but at club level Jackson has shown many times he's a far better outhalf than Madigan.

Also, Joe has said that if Sexton was injured he'd be starting Jackson ahead of Madigan. And then when Sexton was injured and Jackson wasn't available Madigan still didn't start.

If it's not established fact that Jackson is ahead of Madigan then I'm the Cookie Monster's estranged father.

I suppose I'm not arguing Jackson v Madigan (which was the question, I know), I'm arguing Jackson vs the standard expected of an international outhalf. I think the evidence is lacking to date.

I just got in an argument about this while watching the Welsh match and I couldn't come up with a proper argument for Jackson outside of what you guys mentioned; "better skillset for the position", "better distribution", "does the basics better", "better decision maker" which is all somewhat subjective.

Looking at how Jackson and Keatley start ahead of Madigan for Ireland recently is the most damning evidence.