Dublin school cancels workshop on homophobic bullying, saying “both sides should be r

spikeS

Venus In Furs wrote: »

All these posts from one person about attempted suicides being attention-seeking... looks pretty attention-seeking to me.

By gyd you are right, the shame of it all, how will I live this shame down best to go and never post again.

see you space cowboy

Undergod

K4t wrote: »

There is no other bullying. There is only bullying.

That's silly.

floggg

conorh91 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe the concerned parents wanted a homophobic bully there to defend homophobic bullying?

I would assume that is agreed, but as I say I haven't read the (very long) thread entirely.

I've never heard of any parents who would want to defend bullying of any sort here, but in the US it would not be uncommon to see some parents reacting negatively to any action whatsoever which would be seen as condoning homosexuality - including anti-bullying initiatives.

E.g. see her regarding response to the Day of Silence event they have in schools to protest homophobic bullying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Silence#Opposition

The see anything which prevents them telling LGBT youth that they will burn in hell as attacking their rights.

There have also been various attempts to protect the right of "christians" to harass LGBT youths in schools encoded into law - e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Campfield#.22Classroom_protection.22_bill

So its not as absurd as we would all like to think

PopePalpatine

bb1234567 wrote: »

Why are you trying to downplay the struggles of lgbt youth in ireland? Just because there aren't as widely available irish statistics as there are american ones on the subject doesn't mean the same thing isn't going on here. As an lgbt youth lving in ireland I can tell you life is fcking hard, even if it is 'only' 9% that is still an extraordinarily high number of suicide attempts! if my college class of 80 people were all gay that means approx 8 of them would make 'genuine' attempts to end their life because they're gay, do you not find that incredibly disturbing???

IIRC Little CuChulainn opposed legislating for the X Case, I guess that might explain his callousness towards mental health in general.

Little CuChulainn

bb1234567 wrote: »

You make it sound like 6% isn't a lot

The point is, we don't know if it is a lot as there is nothing to compare it to.

bb1234567 wrote: »

Why are you trying to downplay the struggles of lgbt youth in ireland? Just because there aren't as widely available irish statistics as there are american ones on the subject doesn't mean the same thing isn't going on here. As an lgbt youth lving in ireland I can tell you life is fcking hard, even if it is 'only' 9% that is still an extraordinarily high number of suicide attempts! if my college class of 80 people were all gay that means approx 8 of them would make 'genuine' attempts to end their life because they're gay, do you not find that incredibly disturbing???

I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm asking whether it's necessary to dedicate a workshop solely to lgbt issues or would a more general workshop be just as effective in preventing orientation based bullying and help more people as well.

jobbridge4life

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The point is, we don't know if it is a lot as there is nothing to compare it to.



I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm asking whether it's necessary to dedicate a workshop solely to lgbt issues or would a more general workshop be just as effective in preventing orientation based bullying and help more people as well.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X11000541

Suicide disproportionately affects LGBT youth. Homophobic bullying is widely recognized by educationalists as being rampant and particularly pernicious (of course not all victims of homophobic bullying are gay).

Anita Blow

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The point is, we don't know if it is a lot as there is nothing to compare it to.



I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm asking whether it's necessary to dedicate a workshop solely to lgbt issues or would a more general workshop be just as effective in preventing orientation based bullying and help more people as well.

RCSI study investigated suicide among LGBT students in Ireland, reporting a "Striking" relationship between LGBT status and ill mental health.
The author; Prof. Cannon concluded from the study “There were high rates of depression and about 50% [of LGBT students] had engaged in an act of deliberate self harm, such as minor cutting and overdoses, compared with less than 20% for the rest [heterosexual students]. It appears if you are of minority sexual orientation you are at a tenfold risk of self-harm behaviours.”
The Irish National Suicide Research Council had similar findings, reporting that "young people with worries about their sexual orientation and who were bullied had higher rates of self-harm. The disapproval of family members may also be a factor."

Greenmachine

Just read today on independent.ie that some parents did not want their children to attend the workshop, and the parent were concerned that their children would be victimised for not attending. Oh the irony, raising your kids with bigoted intolerant opinions, and then only expressing concerning when it appear they might be called out for their inappropriate opinions. These are transition year students, at that age, it should, be up to them, to elect whether they want to be there.

floggg

Greenmachine wrote: »

Just read today on independent.ie that some parents did not want their children to attend the workshop, and the parent were concerned that their children would be victimised for not attending. Oh the irony, raising your kids with bigoted intolerant opinions, and then only expressing concerning when it appear they might be called out for their inappropriate opinions. These are transition year students, at that age, it should, be up to them, to elect whether they want to be there.

Well the biggest victims of homophobia are the homophobes after all.

K4t

Greenmachine wrote: »

Just read today on independent.ie that some parents did not want their children to attend the workshop, and the parent were concerned that their children would be victimised for not attending. Oh the irony, raising your kids with bigoted intolerant opinions, and then only expressing concerning when it appear they might be called out for their inappropriate opinions. These are transition year students, at that age, it should, be up to them, to elect whether they want to be there.

Bullying of those with homophobic views is just as bad as homophobic bullying. Worse in fact.

Bio Mech

K4t wrote: »

Bullying of those with homophobic views is just as bad as homophobic bullying. Worse in fact.

I didn't realise bullying had a scale of acceptability.

So bullying someone with bigoted views is worse than bigots bullying innocent people for having a natural persuasion? How is that?

floggg

K4t wrote: »

Bullying of those with homophobic views is just as bad as homophobic bullying. Worse in fact.

Really?

bb1234567

K4t wrote: »

Bullying of those with homophobic views is just as bad as homophobic bullying. Worse in fact.

thats a joke right

K4t

Bio Mech wrote: »

I didn't realise bullying had a scale of acceptability.

It doesn't. Bullying is bullying.


I should have said in my opinion it is worse to bully someone because of their views than to bully someone because of their sexual orientation, especially in a society where said views are in the minority and someone's sexual orientation is generally accepted.

bb1234567

K4t wrote: »

It doesn't. Bullying is bullying.


I should have said in my opinion it is worse to bully someone because of their views than to bully someone because of their sexual orientation, especially in a society where said views are in the minority and someone's sexual orientation is generally accepted.

Poor oppressed minority homophobes somebody light a candle for them

K4t

Bullying someone for the opinions they hold or for expressing their views is a dangerous activity. Bullying someone because of their sexual orientation is just plain idiotic and most intelligent people know that. Both are obviously unacceptable.

bb1234567

K4t wrote: »

Bullying someone for the opinions they hold or for expressing their views is a dangerous activity. Bullying someone because of their sexual orientation is just plain idiotic and most intelligent people know that. Both are obviously unacceptable.

If I haven't done anything to offend these people, yet they hold a view that Im a lesser person than them before we've even met due to something I cannot control, then why shouldn't I have the right to bully them for their ignorant opinion

The_Valeyard

So...... how far back did this thread go off the rails?

One eyed Jack

bb1234567 wrote: »

If I haven't done anything to offend these people, yet they hold a view that Im a lesser person than them before we've even met due to something I cannot control, then why shouldn't I have the right to bully them for their ignorant opinion

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

K4t

bb1234567 wrote: »

If I haven't done anything to offend these people, yet they hold a view that Im a lesser person than them before we've even met due to something I cannot control, then why shouldn't I have the right to bully them for their ignorant opinion

Bully them all you like but understand that you are a hypocrite if you also believe homophobic bullying is wrong.

I wouldnt send my kids to anything run by an LGBT group. They are all about segregation from everybody else, making the divide bigger between gay and straight.

PopePalpatine

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldnt send my kids to anything run by an LGBT group. They are all about segregation from everybody else, making the divide bigger between gay and straight.

I'd imagine that a group working to combat homophobic bullying would be one of the last people to want segregation from heterosexuals. That might be Putin's skinheaded mates you're thinking of.

One eyed Jack

There have been claims made in this thread that some posters feel like they're back in 1950's Ireland. Back in 1950's Ireland you had the lynch mobs and the witch-hunts and the calling people out to be shunned in the town square, usually the charge being led by the most ignorant who were in the majority.

In 2015 on the internet, we've had calls on this thread for the parents to be named, the children to be called out and made to answer for themselves (lets ignore the fact that because they're under 18 their parents still advocate for them in this regard), and we've had posters throw out snide comments and suggest they had a right to bully other people.


Mob mentality and "might is right" still alive and well in a supposedly "modern, enlightened, more educated society", whatever the fcuk that means any more.

Guess it depends on your perspective.

One eyed Jack

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd imagine that a group working to combat homophobic bullying would be one of the last people to want segregation from heterosexuals. That might be Putin's skinheaded mates you're thinking of.

Honestly PP, if you're going to behave like a drama queen with nonsensical comparisons like that between Ireland and Russia, not only will anyone fail to take you seriously, but they won't even bother to recognise what's happening in Russia, thinking if the two countries are the same (they couldn't be more different), sure there's not really a problem in Russia then either, is there?

Young people of that age 15, 16, 17 should already know that bullying behaviour and harassment of anyone is wrong (though reading this thread there are still adults that don't get it!), so bringing in special interest groups is simply going to do fcukall, it'll be a doss period for the students. I know it, you know it, the students know it. Talks like that aren't necessary, but if token efforts and PR are your business, then Mr. Meehan just castrated the golden goose.

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd imagine that a group working to combat homophobic bullying would be one of the last people to want segregation from heterosexuals.

so much so they commissioned the gay play-station with the hashtag #thisisforthegaymers. :rolleyes:

Philo Beddoe

Deleted User wrote: »

so much so they commissioned the gay play-station with the hashtag #thisisforthegaymers. :rolleyes:

Are you prohibited from buying one?

K4t

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

Are you prohibited from buying one?

Is he forced to buy one?

PopePalpatine

Deleted User wrote: »

so much so they commissioned the gay play-station with the hashtag #thisisforthegaymers. :rolleyes:

How is that promoting segregation?

I find it ironic that I'm the one being sneered at for being a "drama queen" by mentioning Putin's Russia.

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

How is that promoting segregation?.

again hashtag #thisisforthegaymers Quite obvious really.

PopePalpatine

You used the term "segregation" for a reason. You brought it into this discussion. When I see the word "segregation", I imagine something along the lines of racist regimes like the Jim Crow-era Deep South and Apartheid-era South Africa.

One eyed Jack

PopePalpatine wrote: »

How is that promoting segregation?

I find it ironic that I'm the one being sneered at for being a "drama queen" by mentioning Putin's Russia.

I wasn't sneering at you at all PP, I was stating a fact. Snappy little soundbites and bitchy comments are handy for thanks-whoring and back-slapping and so on when you're on the Internet, but how far do you think a comment like that would fly offline? People would simply pity you for your lack of perspective (I'm not a fan of encouraging anyone to laugh at people for stupid comments and ridiculous hyperbole).

Jesus H, I thought that playstation was a clever mockup image. It's actually real! Seriously, as sinister marketing goes, that one's a beaut, and shows that marketing departments know no levels they won't stoop to in order to increase sales. Call me cynical, but unless I'm mistaken, it's still the same hardware underneath all the brightly coloured plastic? The hell does anyone want a manky looking console like that for? Most people, regardless of their gender or sexuality would have more taste!

What next, "Halo - fundie editon, this one's for the Christians"? :pac:

Fcuks sake :rolleyes:

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

You used the term "segregation" for a reason. You brought it into this discussion. When I see the word "segregation", I imagine something along the lines of racist regimes like the Jim Crow-era Deep South and Apartheid-era South Africa.

I dont mean it like that. I am all about breaking down the walls of gay straight Bi etc.... The LGBT groups seem to be putting up walls left right and center.

Olympics -> Gay games
Tourism -> Gay Tourism
Game convention -> Computer Game convention

The list is endless

jobbridge4life

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont mean it like that. I am all about breaking down the walls of gay straight Bi etc.... The LGBT groups seem to be putting up walls left right and center.

Olympics -> Gay games
Tourism -> Gay Tourism
Game convention -> Computer Game convention

The list is endless

Those exist to remedy exclusions or access problems that exist because of bigotry and/or as an oppotunity for gay people with similar interests to socialise together. They are not designed to 'segregate' people.

floggg

K4t wrote: »

It doesn't. Bullying is bullying.


I should have said in my opinion it is worse to bully someone because of their views than to bully someone because of their sexual orientation, especially in a society where said views are in the minority and someone's sexual orientation is generally accepted.

Really?

So you are saying it's worse to be bullied for something you choose to believe, rather than for something you are and which you have no control over.

And that's without getting into the fact that your belief is that some people are lesser.

:rolleyes:

floggg

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I dont mean it like that. I am all about breaking down the walls of gay straight Bi etc.... The LGBT groups seem to be putting up walls left right and center.

Olympics -> Gay games
Tourism -> Gay Tourism
Game convention -> Computer Game convention

The list is endless

You have rehashed this argument in various threads and in various contexts, but there is one thing you have never answered - if holding gay themed events like pride, the gay games etc are segregationist or divisive in nature, why is it that acceptance, inclusion and visibility of lgbt has increased exponentially since the began holding these events?

Edit: are you also opposed to other events celebrating or intended for other minority groups?

Are the Chinese New Year celebrations in Ireland not divisive by way of topics example?

Is the Paddy's Day parade in other countries divisive and segregationist?

What about the Puerto Rican day parade in New York?

One eyed Jack

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Those exist to remedy exclusions or access problems that exist because of bigotry and/or as an oppotunity for gay people with similar interests to socialise together. They are not designed to 'segregate' people.

They exist to insulate people from society on the basis of their sexuality. They're spotlighting a common trait among a section of society and closing themselves off from society. That's fine by me and all, couldn't care less, I find them a bit ridiculous myself that they think they need to do that (the hell is the difference between a high jumpers ability or a marathon runners ability simply based on who they're attracted to?).

Claiming that they remedy anything in society though is an utterly nonsensical justification for their existence if you're trying to fight for equality in the same breath. If you're fighting to be treated no differently to anyone else in society, then separating yourself from that society is simply defeating the purpose of your aims.

If on the other hand you want to see yourself as a perpetually persecuted special snowflake, then I could understand why you'd think you had to separate yourself from society, not because you're being excluded by society, but because you've chosen to exclude yourself from society.

One eyed Jack

floggg wrote: »

You have rehashed this argument in various threads and in various contexts, but there is one thing you have never answered - if holding gay themed events like pride, the gay games etc are segregationist or divisive in nature, why is it that acceptance, inclusion and visibility of lgbt has increased exponentially since the began holding these events?

I believe Lisa Simpson said it best in the Simpsons episode with the gay pride parade coming down the street shouting -

"We're here, we're queer, get used to it"

and Lisa commented -

"We already are".

It epitomised perfectly the fact that people just don't care all that much any more. LGBT people are not some sort of "they walk among us" homogeneous group that deserves any special status in society. They're people, they eat, shìt, sleep and breathe the same as anyone else. Not that many people in Ireland actually give a damn any more who's sleeping with who, they just don't. They have more going on in their lives than even thinking about who the guy or girl in work beside them is sleeping with.

floggg

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They exist to insulate people from society on the basis of their sexuality. They're spotlighting a common trait among a section of society and closing themselves off from society. That's fine by me and all, couldn't care less, I find them a bit ridiculous myself that they think they need to do that (the hell is the difference between a high jumpers ability or a marathon runners ability simply based on who they're attracted to?).

Claiming that they remedy anything in society though is an utterly nonsensical justification for their existence if you're trying to fight for equality in the same breath. If you're fighting to be treated no differently to anyone else in society, then separating yourself from that society is simply defeating the purpose of your aims.

If on the other hand you want to see yourself as a perpetually persecuted special snowflake, then I could understand why you'd think you had to separate yourself from society, not because you're being excluded by society, but because you've chosen to exclude yourself from society.

It would be rather foolish to try to argue that there has been no issues with acceptance of lgbt people in sports. We are thankfully starting to see people come out in sport over the last few years, but they are rare (but getting less so).

Secondly, you seem to be misguided ad to the nature of equality if you think it means we must all be or act in the same manner, or that our differences should not be acknowledged.

It doesn't.

Equality means we receive the same treatment, protection and respect regardless of our differences. It enables us to recognise our differences and celebrate them.

I have played sports with both gay and straight groups. Participating in a gay sporting group doesn't exclude me from anybody, it just gives me increased social outlets.

Lastly, I think it is pretty insulting for somebody I understand to be straight to constantly tell us that there is no such thing as discrimination against gay people, or that we should just get over it and stop making a big deal of it.

As I said before, I would not presume to lecture a black person on racism or how they handle it. I dont think you are in any position to judge gay people's experiences with homophobia or tell them how to deal with.

What exactly makes you an authority on the subject?

floggg

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I believe Lisa Simpson said it best in the Simpsons episode with the gay pride parade coming down the street shouting -

"We're here, we're queer, get used to it"

and Lisa commented -

"We already are".

It epitomised perfectly the fact that people just don't care all that much any more. LGBT people are not some sort of "they walk among us" homogeneous group that deserves any special status in society. They're people, they eat, shìt, sleep and breathe the same as anyone else. Not that many people in Ireland actually give a damn any more who's sleeping with who, they just don't. They have more going on in their lives than even thinking about who the guy or girl in work beside them is sleeping with.

Even if we pretend that bring gay I'd a complete non-issue in Ireland, how does that make Pride exclusionary or divisive?

If it's only purpose now is a party, it is still one attended by lots of straight people. Its one of the biggest events I'm Dublin, and it's not just lgbt people participating.

I have straight friends who have been to more pride events than I have. Nobody is excluded at all.

If people like yourself claim that bring gay isn't an issue, how does a party where some people acknowledge the are gay exclude you. Why not join in?

One eyed Jack

floggg wrote: »

It would be rather foolish to try to argue that there has been no issues with acceptance of lgbt people in sports. We are thankfully starting to see people come out in sport over the last few years, but they are rare (but getting less so).

It certainly would be, which is why I never argued that. I argued that sports people separating themselves from other sports people on the basis of their sexuality is defeating the whole purpose of wanting to be treated equally to everyone else.

Secondly, you seem to be misguided ad to the nature of equality if you think it means we must all be or act in the same manner, or that our differences should not be acknowledged.

It doesn't.

Equality means we receive the same treatment, protection and respect regardless of our differences. It enables us to recognise our differences and celebrate them.

That's exactly my point - People who are LGBT aren't any different to anyone else. If you want the same treatment, respect and protection of society as everyone else, then I personally don't see any reason why I should treat you any differently based on who you're attracted to. Why are you arguing that I should see you as any different to me, and that not only should I acknowledge what you see as different about yourself, but I should celebrate it? What for? Why should I take any interest in who you're attracted to? Why should anyone?

I have played sports with both gay and straight groups. Participating in a gay sporting group doesn't exclude me from anybody, it just gives me increased social outlets.

No, what you describe above doesn't, but if you were solely to play sports exclusively with gay groups, can you see how that would be excluding yourself? That would be decreasing your social outlets.

Lastly, I think it is pretty insulting for somebody I understand to be straight to constantly tell us that there is no such thing as discrimination against gay people, or that we should just get over it and stop making a big deal of it.

Again, I never said anything like that. But you see what you did there? You're implying that I should only be entitled to comment if I were gay. How do you ever expect LGBT people to integrate into society if you want to exclude people from the discussion on the basis of their sexuality? Defeating the purpose somewhat, isn't it?

As I said before, I would not presume to lecture a black person on racism or how they handle it. I dont think you are in any position to judge gay people's experiences with homophobia or tell them how to deal with.

No, but you'll presume to judge people on the basis of their sexuality like homophobia is any different from racism or any other form of discrimination. People judge other people and discriminate against other people who are different from them all the time. This is why I'm often reluctant to bother with these online discussions and like you only do so against my better judgment, because all too often the words retarded, homophobe, religious kiddy fiddlers, etc are bandied about ad nauseum, with no regard for the fact that it fcuking hurts every time I read it, and that's just me. I'm well used to it by now though because I've had to develop a thick skin, so it doesn't hurt any more like when I was called a retard in school, like when I was called a child molester for being seen going into mass, because I understand that as Emer O' Reilly said in that article - some people are just ignorant pigs.

What exactly makes you an authority on the subject?

What makes me an authority on being a human being? Well, no more qualified than anyone else really, including yourself.

floggg

floggg wrote: »

You have rehashed this argument in various threads and in various contexts, but there is one thing you have never answered - if holding gay themed events like pride, the gay games etc are segregationist or divisive in nature, why is it that acceptance, inclusion and visibility of lgbt has increased exponentially since the began holding these events?

Its called PR. Bands use it when promoting a new album or tour. Then it stops.
LGBT used it properly to get accepted during the sixties and the purpose of the group was to promote equal opportunity and gain acceptance and i applaud them for that because they achieved it.
Yet the group stuck around. They couldnt fight for acceptance and equal opportunity, they started fighting for existence. Creating scenarios like a Christian bakery not making them a gay cake. Then asking for donation to help them with this fight.

bb1234567

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I believe Lisa Simpson said it best in the Simpsons episode with the gay pride parade coming down the street shouting -

"We're here, we're queer, get used to it"

and Lisa commented -

"We already are".

It epitomised perfectly the fact that people just don't care all that much any more. LGBT people are not some sort of "they walk among us" homogeneous group that deserves any special status in society. They're people, they eat, shìt, sleep and breathe the same as anyone else. Not that many people in Ireland actually give a damn any more who's sleeping with who, they just don't. They have more going on in their lives than even thinking about who the guy or girl in work beside them is sleeping with.

If only gay people were as accepted by society as you seem to think they are

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

If only gay people were as accepted by society as you seem to think they are

THEY ARE !!!

Undergod

en dot wikipedia dot org slash wiki slash Privilege underscore bracket social underscore inequality close bracket

Seriously folk.

K4t

PopePalpatine wrote: »

You used the term "segregation" for a reason. You brought it into this discussion. When I see the word "segregation", I imagine something along the lines of racist regimes like the Jim Crow-era Deep South and Apartheid-era South Africa.

Laws, it wasn't the Jim Crow-era, it was Jim Crow-Laws. It's an important omission and a significant difference.

Gay people are not discriminated under the law in Ireland. And in a case where they might appear to be like SSM, we are holding a referendum in May which will hopefully pass.

floggg wrote: »

So you are saying it's worse to be bullied for something you choose to believe, rather than for something you are and which you have no control over.

Yes. Without exception.
Take for example a person in Russia, a heterosexual person, who is campaigning vigorously for equal rights for homosexuals and advocating for how homosexuality is completely natural and normal etc. That person is more likely to be bullied in Russia, not for what they have no control over which is being a heterosexual, but for the views and opinions they hold. If that person is bullied so badly that they stop expressing their views and even change their opinion to agree the bullies, it will lead to a very bad life for not only homosexuals, but everyone in Russia.

When we do eventually rid the world of homophobia and there is one last person left who holds the opinion that homosexuals are sick, sinful, disgusting sub-human scum, it is that person's voice and opinion that will need protecting the most.

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

THEY ARE !!!

When your own parents tell you its not natural or normal for you to be with the girl/guy you like just because of their gender then come back to me

K4t

bb1234567 wrote: »

When your own parents tell you its not natural or normal for you to be with the girl/guy you like just because of their gender then come back to me

I'd rather come back to your parents. I don't care nor should I care what you do or who you do it with as long as you're not breaking the law.

bb1234567

K4t wrote: »

I'd rather come back to your parents. I don't care nor should I care what you do or who you do it with as long as you're not breaking the law.

Exactly
But for some reason a lot of people don't think like you and are seemingly obsessed with ranting about gay people despite their sexuality having zero effect on their lives.

mickstupp

K4t wrote: »

When we do eventually rid the world of homophobia and there is one last person left who holds the opinion that homosexuals are sick, sinful, disgusting sub-human scum, it is that person's voice and opinion that will need protecting the most.

I have genuinely no idea how anyone can believe such a thing. This was touched on in the freedom of speech thread and I didn't understand it there either.

Why should those who are actively detrimental to the health and wellbeing of other people, and sometimes detrimental to society, be valued over those whose lives are adversely affected by them? It's like you're arguing for the rights of the perpetrators over those of the victims.

Why should the opinion that 'homosexuals are sick, sinful, disgusting sub-human scum' be tolerated in any way, shape, or form?

DeadHand

K4t wrote: »

When we do eventually rid the world of homophobia and there is one last person left who holds the opinion that homosexuals are sick, sinful, disgusting sub-human scum, it is that person's voice and opinion that will need protecting the most.

The world will never be rid of homophobia. So long as differences exist, so too will irrational hatreds. The most we can strive to do as a society is limit and contain it.

Even in that impossible hypothetical, the person's opinion should not be protected from peaceful challenge.