Destiny (See first post for details on joining boards.ie clan)

synesthesia

I'm not impressed by the lack of Raid. I hope they will come up with more 6 players activities ... even if it is PVP at this stage.

Generic Dreadhead

I think Bungie has just Friendzoned us.
"I like you, I just don't like you like you"

AdamD

I highly doubt its gonna be standard hordes, I imagine you'll need to activate plates and other mechanics

MerryDespot

The lack of a raid is annoying ... not everyone loves playing PvP (so trials of Osiris won't be of much interest) and horde survival modes are boring.

Looks like raid armour/weapons will be replaced by Trials of Osiris weapons/gear ... so that's going to be a kick in the teeth for non pvp players.

And if there's no non-pvp 6 player mode (ie if the arena is 3 player) then I'll be off - nothing for me in this then.

I expect that if Arena is 3 player then it'll also have match making - which is good for folk who don't have a team to play with, but kicks the rest of the raid community back to re-running the existing stale raids for higher level gear.

I was looking forward to HoW to figure out the mechanics of the new raid - to explore new vast areas and to enjoy killing the raid target that first time. Now it sounds like I'm going to have to make do with old raids or horde survival ... which makes me think that Bungie are going to release a new raid later in the summer as a non-season pass DLC to bilk us out of even more money.

Nope. Sorry Bungie. Once I've run the content to get my value from money I've already spent I'm off

wes

I am wondering if the raid is going to be something we have to pay for as a part of comet, or will be included in our current season pass. If its included in our current season pass, then I can forgive a delay, if we have to pay it will be disappointing.

Also, I would hope comet would be content rich e.g. have 3 new raids, and something like a 7 or 8 new strikes or something.

runawaybishop

The majority of players couldn't care less about the raid, or lack thereof, as they are not able to take part. Segregating your community and blocking portions of the limited end game off are not good ideas.

Generic Dreadhead

runawaybishop wrote: »

The majority of players couldn't care less about the raid

But the majority of the people they expect to play the 4 games over 10 years while making user-generated community content most definitely do.

runawaybishop

Cormac... wrote: »

But the majority of the people they expect to play the 4 games over 10 years while making user-generated community content most definitely do.

So thats why they added a raid to this expansion?

AdamD

Pretty sure the majority of DLC buyers are end game users, could be wrong but I imagine its the case. Though this does sound generally more accessible which has its benefits.

Tbh the more I think about it the more I'm looking forward to it

runawaybishop

AdamD wrote: »

Pretty sure the majority of DLC buyers are end game users, could be wrong but I imagine its the case.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/305g15/discussion_some_numbers_to_remind_us_how_little/

Only 19.2% of guardians have completed a raid.

All that time and effort crafting the best looking and most mechanically interesting bits of the game and 80% of your players do not experience it.

Its like bungie are 5 years late to the mmo party discussion and only just finding out these basics.

Generic Dreadhead

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/305g15/discussion_some_numbers_to_remind_us_how_little/

Only 19.2% of guardians have completed a raid.

Really all that piece points out is that about 50% of people who bought the game finished the main story around lvl16 and sold/deleted/traded it

And a further 20% probably played till they hit around lvl24 and put the game down.

The figures for anything else endgame related are pretty low too, not just the Raid completions

runawaybishop

Cormac... wrote: »

Really all that piece points out is that about 50% of people who bought the game finished the main story around lvl16 and sold/deleted/traded it

And a further 20% probably played till they hit around lvl24 and put the game down.

The figures for anything else endgame related are pretty low too, not just the Raid completions

Yes and that's a serious problem, players hit walls and quit.

1-20 <--0 nice straight forward progression
20-25 <-- repetitive wall of sh1te
25-30 <-- yay fun again
31-32 <-- IB once a month or a mode that the majority of people wont do.

Keeping your hardcore end gamers happy is obviously important but building huge walls that stop people getting what they see as value out is bad - this is not exactly news either.

PetKing

25-30 was not fun again!! It was pre clan for me and I managed very few raids with lfg'ers. I was an eternal 29 for the longest time. Joining the clan and accomplishing raids was the business for me, and while I am disappointed with the lack of any or any 6 player activities, I'm hoping they're taking a long hard look at their new raid and get it right. I don't want a cheese fest, but neither do I want another CE hm.

SteveDPirate

MerryDespot wrote: »

The lack of a raid is annoying ...

I was looking forward to HoW to figure out the mechanics of the new raid - to explore new vast areas and to enjoy killing the raid target that first time. Now it sounds like I'm going to have to make do with old raids or horde survival ... which makes me think that Bungie are going to release a new raid later in the summer as a non-season pass DLC to bilk us out of even more money.

I'm with you bud. I was very disappointed reading the Bungie update last night. And my first thought was, "whenever Bungie decide to release the next Raid, they're gonna charge us for it!" I would have loved to enter a brand new Raid with our group and explore it not knowing anything about it. I was a bit late getting into the Raids and I'd seen playthroughs of them so knew what to expect.

I am very interested to see what The Prison of Elders mode is like. I played a lot of Horde on Gears 2. It was great fun at the time, but it got a little stale after a while. I guess it's because of the static nature of the game mode. Once you hit the higher level waves, the team normally bunches into a room or corner and tries to stay alive there. I'm hoping this "Arena" mode has a bit more variety to it. Deej said it is a game mode focused on variety, replayability and skill. It would be nice if there were some randomly generated dungeons like in Diablo 3, but can't see that happening.

quad_red

Are Bungie going to charge a full game price for Comet?

And then again the same costs for DLC season passes?

Generic Dreadhead

quad_red wrote: »

Are Bungie going to charge a full game price for Comet?

And then again the same costs for DLC season passes?

No info available as of yet. Wouldn't surprise me if the Comet was Q4 at this rate

Mitch Connor

quad_red wrote: »

Are Bungie going to charge a full game price for Comet?

And then again the same costs for DLC season passes?

my guess (and it is an uninformed guess) is that it will probably cost near full price for the comet expansion and the season pass. So maybe €30 or €40 for comet +€20 for the season pass.

Generic Dreadhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So maybe €30 or €40 for comet +€20 €35 for the season 2nd EXPANSION pass.

FYP

Bare in mind TDB and HoW were €20 each and €35 together

Silly Conovar thinking they'd be sensible and have a proper Season Pass like most games

We're here to be gouged, gouged I tell ya

still better value than Evolve

Mitch Connor

Cormac... wrote: »

No info available as of yet. Wouldn't surprise me if the Comet was Q4 at this rate

i'd still reckon September for Comet, with expansion 1 around christmas and then expension 2 around April/May.

They are gonna need to put more work into the expansions if there are only 2 after comet. they need comet and the expansions to last a full year.

Though I suppose they can expect and deal with a fairly hefty fall off in players in the elad up to Destiny 2. Do you reckon they need to keep people completely hooked for the entire duration of the Destiny plan? Surely it is fine, and to be expected, that people will drop off for a time. Such as when games like Batman, Witcher come out - they have to know people will swap to them for a time at least.

They just, imo, need to make the expansions fun enough that we will want to come back to it when new content is released.

Do people really want a game they feel a need to play for hours every night of the week? To be honest, now that I have kinda run out of stuff to do in the game I do feel a little release. I like just dipping in for a bit to play some bounties, an hour here or there. Rather than a couple of hours every night or I felt I was falling behind!

THere seems to be a thoguht process that if people aren't playing Destiny 100% of their free time that Bungie have flopped or failed. I think the expected bar is set too high.

The more I think about it the more I feel this Arena thing could be a good move for the game, though I wish it was alongside a new raid. A different game mode should be more than welcome in Destiny - we have long complained that there isn't enough to do. If the Arena DOES offer variety, it could be great. Its just a massive pity, imo, that it is 3 player and not 6, or an option to run a variant at either player count.

runawaybishop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i'd still reckon September for Comet, with expansion 1 around christmas and then expension 2 around April/May.

They are gonna need to put more work into the expansions if there are only 2 after comet. they need comet and the expansions to last a full year.

Though I suppose they can expect and deal with a fairly hefty fall off in players in the elad up to Destiny 2. Do you reckon they need to keep people completely hooked for the entire duration of the Destiny plan? Surely it is fine, and to be expected, that people will drop off for a time. Such as when games like Batman, Witcher come out - they have to know people will swap to them for a time at least.

They just, imo, need to make the expansions fun enough that we will want to come back to it when new content is released.

Do people really want a game they feel a need to play for hours every night of the week? To be honest, now that I have kinda run out of stuff to do in the game I do feel a little release. I like just dipping in for a bit to play some bounties, an hour here or there. Rather than a couple of hours every night or I felt I was falling behind!

THere seems to be a thoguht process that if people aren't playing Destiny 100% of their free time that Bungie have flopped or failed. I think the expected bar is set too high.

The more I think about it the more I feel this Arena thing could be a good move for the game, though I wish it was alongside a new raid. A different game mode should be more than welcome in Destiny - we have long complained that there isn't enough to do. If the Arena DOES offer variety, it could be great. Its just a massive pity, imo, that it is 3 player and not 6, or an option to run a variant at either player count.

There is a massive amount riding on this expansion - a lot of people committed to premium/season pass and if dlc2 is as lacking in content as dlc1 then people will leave the game in droves.

Raids should have matchmaking also.

Mitch Connor

i suppose my feelings are based a lot on the fact I am hooked.

I would like a story added to this game, but I doubt it will happen now. I expect a better story in Destiny 2. I will likely be happy if the HoW DLC is fun to play for a month or so - cause I know I will get Comet when it comes out, unless HoW is an absolute disaster.

MerryDespot

SteveDPirate wrote: »

I would have loved to enter a brand new Raid with our group and explore it not knowing anything about it. I was a bit late getting into the Raids and I'd seen playthroughs of them so knew what to expect.

Yeah, that was what I was looking forward to most.

The very first raid I ever ran was over Christmas when a randomer invited me in from the Tower. I'd been ignoring invites from ransoms before then but I thought 'why not?' and joined.

I'd no clue about the mechanics and it was all a totally new experience for me. Until that point I had pretty much given up on destiny. Suddenly it had a new thing for me to do - which led to coming on here and meeting the guys I raid with every week now.

There will still be things to do ... I'm sure Trials will be entertaining for many as it's going to be like a continuous IB ... but it's annoying to have waited so long to experience a fully fresh raid with my raiding buddies only to be told "you guys should really just go play Crucible or horde mode instead as our KPIs tell us that these are more popular with the wider player base" ... which is effectively what Bungie have done.

MerryDespot

But I'm guessing that Bungie have looked at the metrics and realised that no matchmaking and requiring 6 players to raid does pigeon hole raiding a little bit into a hard core pursuit.

I'm sure a much larger proportion of the player base have completed ROC strikes etc. that needs 3 players or it'll randomly match make ... so perhaps that's what's guiding their thinking.

My issue with strikes versus raids is that strikes have a rubbish reward pay off - you'll end up running a huge number of them before a legendary engram or exotic drops - whereas a raid rewards more frequently with decent weapon or armour drops.

The time/pay-off element is totally skewed against strike or crucible playlists ... why churn out weeks of skirmish or control and have no exotics drop when you play three raids in one reset and you'll more than likely get decent gear/guns drop

AdamD

MerryDespot wrote: »

But I'm guessing that Bungie have looked at the metrics and realised that no matchmaking and requiring 6 players to raid does pigeon hole raiding a little bit into a hard core pursuit.

I'm sure a much larger proportion of the player base have completed ROC strikes etc. that needs 3 players or it'll randomly match make ... so perhaps that's what's guiding their thinking.

My issue with strikes versus raids is that strikes have a rubbish reward pay off - you'll end up running a huge number of them before a legendary engram or exotic drops - whereas a raid rewards more frequently with decent weapon or armour drops.

The time/pay-off element is totally skewed against strike or crucible playlists ... why churn out weeks of skirmish or control and have no exotics drop when you play three raids in one reset and you'll more than likely get decent gear/guns drop

The issue of strikes vs raids is that strikes as basic as **** and really boring

MerryDespot

Agreed.
But if you look at the numbers keeping ... say 60% of the player base happy and perhaps giving them a new gaming mode to keep them engaged (Arena) versus pandering to the 19% of players who raid, you can see why Bungie have done this.

Generic Dreadhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Though I suppose they can expect and deal with a fairly hefty fall off in players in the elad up to Destiny 2. Do you reckon they need to keep people completely hooked for the entire duration of the Destiny plan? Surely it is fine, and to be expected, that people will drop off for a time. Such as when games like Batman, Witcher come out - they have to know people will swap to them for a time at least.

They just, imo, need to make the expansions fun enough that we will want to come back to it when new content is released.

Do people really want a game they feel a need to play for hours every night of the week? To be honest, now that I have kinda run out of stuff to do in the game I do feel a little release. I like just dipping in for a bit to play some bounties, an hour here or there. Rather than a couple of hours every night or I felt I was falling behind!

THere seems to be a thoguht process that if people aren't playing Destiny 100% of their free time that Bungie have flopped or failed. I think the expected bar is set too high.

100% Agree, it's good to be able to have a break and try something else, Bungie must expect and in ways welcome this as it keeps the game fresh as players will come back in droves voting with their wallets (if the content is good and value for money).

There is not a single delusional executive working for Bungie that thinks this is gonna be anyones only game for 10 years. They got a good 6 months out of a lot of 'hardcore' players and they stung a couple more 'casual' players for €70 for 20 hours of content so they are probably happy with year 1 by now and there's still 5 months left, if truth be told.

HoW is a the beginning of players tailing off for 3 months while they try new/other games and come back for Comet. Lets say most of the 'hardcore' players get 5 weeks out of HoW and put the game down at the end of June, that's really not the end of the world for either Bungie, Activision of the Players themselves.

Go play some backlog for July, Aug, Sep and wham, you're back in the game with some fresh content and refreshed and excited again.

The whole gamer privilege thing nowadays is a joke, it's just a pity the price points were so high for content that was so vague at launch. If people knew how many missions and strikes and raids they got for Vanilla, TDB and HoW and how long those took, there would have been a lot less buyers. But being a bit vague worked in their favour then but they are facing the backlash (and rightly so) now.

I'm not a bandwagon when it comes to moaning about games dev or publishers in general but one thing I don't appreciate was being sold the idea that each expansion was gonna have a Raid and now they do not.

If you're (Bungie) so flipping excited by how much we'll all love Prison of Elders, well fine, but clearly say "this is a free added mode we're adding now, we messed up the last 2 raids and will give you you 3rd raid as promised X weeks late so we can perfect it".

Drunken 6 players $hit talking and joking and bad puns IS the End Game for me, and how we'll have to go to Clash/Control to get our fix of that :pac:

Things like the following have been worth the €110 to me:

• The 1st time we killed Atheon :eek:
• Jokes about Rossi and Sky Sports News
• Wondaboy singing his $hite songs
• The 1st time we killed Crota :eek:
• Me, Cal and Marc arguing about what's the "polite" way to say "let's go" in French
• No-Land-Beyond jokes in Crotas End.
• Me and Wes trying to work out the sniping roles in Crotas End Normal mode back in week 1 and fine tuning when we did what.
• Getting Flawless Raider
• Stealing people from other peoples teams in Iron Banner
• "DreadHead got Gjallahorn", "F**K OFF! WHAT? F**K OFF!!!!" :pac:
• Me and GooseOnStilts having a full 3 hour banter when we realised we're from the same place and I kept messing up every joke I tried to make at his expense.
• Helping Fieldy get that elusive 13th Strange coin to get his 1st Exotic
• Making some new online friends

I had a look at the 50GB of footage I'd saved from the Clan over the last 7 months there on the PS4 and said I's go see what was the 1st video I ever captured... It was me, Sniper_Samurai and ArklowAndy beating (what I believe to be) the 1st ever Weekly strike at level 24 (or something)

I've had my fun, and that's the important thing.
The game is fun and has f**k all content, but replaying said content was really just a vessel for me/us to create our own fun.

AdamD

MerryDespot wrote: »

Agreed.
But if you look at the numbers keeping ... say 60% of the player base happy and perhaps giving them a new gaming mode to keep them engaged (Arena) versus pandering to the 19% of players who raid, you can see why Bungie have done this.

I agree with this somewhat but there's no way the numbers are actually like that. The amount of active players/dlc buyers who raid would be a lot higher than the amount taken out of the total amount of people who bought the game, sure 2 of my friends got it and never even finished the story.

MerryDespot

AdamD wrote: »

I agree with this somewhat but there's no way the numbers are actually like that. The amount of active players/dlc buyers who raid would be a lot higher than the amount taken out of the total amount of people who bought the game, sure 2 of my friends got it and never even finished the story.

Yeah ... pulled that 60% out of my rear to be fair!

synesthesia

I love Destiny to bits - for me, and I think the Vault of Glass is one of the best piece of gaming ever made ...

I got my money worth ( i might have spent more than others ... Destiny made us purchased a second PlayStation and disk )

soooo much fun raiding, and even Iron Bannering at times !

wes

Just realized, will be in Canada for my sisters wedding when HOW is out. Will probably be in my Uncles house most of the time, with not a lot to do, so having my PS4 there would be good.

Have to ring the airline and see what the story is for bringing a games console on a carry on.

Between HOW and the Witcher, will have something to do.