Staffie dog hogtied and cooked alive over a fire at The Curragh

eviltwin

K4t wrote: »

I never said I wasn't affected by it. It's horrific. What I am saying is that anyone arguing that this is cause for the perpetrator to be imprisoned or put down himself and so on is engaging in hypocrisy and using their affiliation with dogs as opposed to other animals to cloud their judgement. It can't be one rule for one animal and a different rule for another.

It's not the same. People buy their meat already dead, there is a disconnect between the animal and the packet you pick up in a shop. This person took a dog, tied it and lit a fire. That's hard enough to do with a dead animal but with a living one? It's not comparable to cooking a steak.

Lau2976

saywhatyousee wrote: »

I don't know what's more disturbing what happened to the dog or that a lot of posters are saying they would value the life of a dog more than most humans. Do people still openly preach violence against cats in after hours ? i have been away for a few years it used to be acceptable

I don't think its disturbing at all and I'm happy to admit to anybody that asks that I feel this way. People have evolved to become sadistic and selfish for the sake of it. Animals have not. Animals place complete trust in the humans around them and we exploit that. That's what's disturbing.

Given complete strangers, one an animal and one a human, I'm not sure what I would do, it would depend on a number of factors. But I would, and have, ignored my own personal safety for my dog. I owe her that for hr complete affection and trust that she gives me everyday.

Omackeral

The other fella wrote: »

You are obviously a vegan of course, arent you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFBeeBSIH5Q

The other fella

Omackeral wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFBeeBSIH5Q

I actually thought of the episode when Apu is a vegan and thinks of lisa as a monster for just being vegetarian earlier in the thread.

Whoever did that should be shot, simple as that.

K4t

sup_dude wrote: »

I'm not sure if you mean that animals are equal to each other here or if you mean that humans are above animals?

One animal cannot be treated as equal to humans and the rest as simply animals required to be mutilated and killed for survival, under the law.

The other fella wrote: »

You are obviously a vegan of course, arent you?

Nope. I love meat. I'm not a hypocrite either. I also have a cat who is possibly my best friend in the world and who I care for deeply, but I would hope that if someone tied him up over a fire and roasted him, leaving him there to suffer and die (it's hard to even type this) that I would not seek to have that person imprisoned.

Magico Gonzalez

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd happily put my dog above all of you. You're strangers to me, my dog isn't.

Rough order of my priorities come crunch time would be wife-family-friends-dog-everyone else.

Thinking about getting another dog, so that knocks you all down one more position. Sorry about that.

If the person that carried out this horrific act were to meet a horrible end tomorrow, I'd be glad that kharma had squared this one off for the universe. I wouldn't personally harm the person, but I'd not have a problem with the world being short one murderous inbred mouthbreather.

The other fella

K4t wrote: »

One animal cannot be treated as equal to humans and the rest as simply animals required to be mutilated and killed for survival, under the law.


Nope. I love meat. I'm not a hypocrite either. I also have a cat who is possibly my best friend in the world and who I care for deeply, but I would hope that if someone tied him up over a fire and roasted him, leaving him there to suffer and die (it's hard to even type this) that I would not seek to have that person imprisoned.

Well next time you eat chicken, will you be having dog the next night?

keithclancy

K4t wrote: »

Hold on, so according to both of you and others, the life of a dog is more valuable than that of the lamb or a chicken or a pig or a fly or a spider (many of which we kill, torture and eat everyday) but you want similar punishments for abuse and torture of dogs as there are for humans? You are equating a dog's life to that of a human and therefore implying that all human life is not equal at the same time.


All animals are equal but some are more equal than others?

Actually there are directives for the slaughter of livestock with regard to their well being and minimisation of suffering

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/welfare/transport/legislation_coming_en.htm

They don't stick live sheep on a spit for example and slowly cook it for fun.

suicide_circus

this an absolutely abhorrent act by vile despicable scrotes.

however, people saying the life of their dog would come before the life of another human is worrying.

Frog Song

Why does this stupid argument have to come up every time an animal abuse story is posted?! A scumbag tortured a dog for kicks, people eating cows and pigs has nothing to do with this story and doesn't have to come in to it every bloody time! :rolleyes:

SpaceTime

That's very worrying and I agree, someone who shows that level of complete lack of empathy for another living creature and who actually tortures it really not someone you'd want roaming the streets.

Horrible thing to have happened and remember that dogs and cats as advanced mammals have very similar sense of pain and emotions to humans. It's absolutely horrific to think what that poor dog went through.

I'm sure Ireland's robust animal cruelty legislation will ensure that there brought to justice and fined 2 shillings and let go.

We need much harsher,custodial penalties for this kind of behaviour.

I feel physically sick after reading that article.

DamagedTrax

K4t wrote: »

but I would hope that if someone tied him up over a fire and roasted him, leaving him there to suffer and die (it's hard to even type this) that I would not seek to have that person imprisoned.

neither would i... infact they'd be counting their blessings if they were lucky enough to be imprisoned.

as someone said earlier its family>friends>my dog>everyone else.

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

this an absolutely abhorrent act by vile despicable scrotes.

however, people saying the life of their dog would come before the life of another human is worrying.

Why is it worrying?

K4t

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Rough order of my priorities come crunch time would be wife-family-friends-dog-everyone else
.

That's fine, as long as you accept that potentially someday there might be a situation whereby a stranger may value their pet over you or your loved ones, allowing you or your wife or kid to die in exchange for the survival of their pet hamster.

The other fella wrote: »

Well next time you eat chicken, will you be having dog the next night?

Possibly?

suicide_circus

Lau2976 wrote: »

Why is it worrying?

Because in pretty much every imaginable scenario the lives of people should trump the lives of aminals

The other fella

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's very worrying and I agree, someone who shows that level of complete lack of empathy for another living creature and who actually tortures it really not someone you'd want roaming the streets.

Horrible thing to have happened and remember that dogs and cats as advanced mammals have very similar sense of pain and emotions to humans. It's absolutely horrific to think what that poor dog went through.

I'm sure Ireland's robust animal cruelty legislation will ensure that there brought to justice and fined 2 shillings and let go.

We need much harsher,custodial penalties for this kind of behaviour.

According to some, the best solution is to get him therapy (at the expense of the tax payers) and let him on his way with a nice pat on the head... "Run along now ya little scamp".

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

Because in pretty much every imaginable scenario the lives of people should trump the lives of aminals

No they shouldn't

eviltwin

Lau2976 wrote: »

Why is it worrying?

I love my dogs but in a situation where I could save either them or a person I'd save the person every time.

The other fella

K4t wrote: »

That's fine, as long as you accept that potentially someday there might be a situation whereby a stranger may value their pet over you or your loved ones, allowing you or your wife or kid to die in exchange for the survival of their pet hamster.

Possibly?

How often do you eat dog? A couple of times a week or just a once off thing every now and then?

K4t

Frog Song wrote: »

Why does this stupid argument have to come up every time an animal abuse story is posted?! A scumbag tortured a dog for kicks, people eating cows and pigs has nothing to do with this story and doesn't have to come in to it every bloody time! :rolleyes:

It does when people are asking for life imprisonments and violent retribution I'm afraid.

DamagedTrax

K4t wrote: »

That's fine, as long as you accept that potentially someday there might be a situation whereby a stranger may value their pet over you or your loved ones, allowing you or your wife or kid to die in exchange for the survival of their pet hamster.

i'd love you to explain a situation where i might die in exchange for the survival of someone's pet hamster.

eviltwin

K4t wrote: »

It does when people are asking for life imprisonments and violent retribution I'm afraid.

Animal cruelty is illegal.

suicide_circus

Lau2976 wrote: »

No they shouldn't

Ok so if I fell into a river at the same time as your dog fell into the river, you would save your dog and allow me to drown?
Or if you, me and your dog survived a plane crash high in the mountains and had no food, you would kill me to feed yourself and the dog rather than killing the dog?

Lau2976

eviltwin wrote: »

I love my dogs but in a situation where I could save either them or a person I'd save the person every time.

I accept that that's your belief but I don't see why. I don't distingush between animals and people.

eviltwin

Lau2976 wrote: »

I accept that that's your belief but I don't see why. I don't distingush between animals and people.

I've had and lost many pets, it's terrible but not devastating. It's no way comparable to the pain of losing your spouse or a child.

DamagedTrax

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok so if I fell into a river at the same time as your dog fell into the river, you would save your dog and allow me to drown?

of course i wouldnt, there's no need to let you drown. my dog can swim better than you or i.

Or if you, me and your dog survived a plane crash high in the mountains and had no food, you would kill me to feed yourself and the dog rather than killing the dog?

we have a dog with us. i think we should try hunting (something the animal has natural instincts for) before we go eating each other.

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok so if I fell into a river at the same time as your dog fell into the river, you would save your dog and allow me to drown?
Or if you, me and your dog survived a plane crash high in the mountains and had no food, you would kill me to feed yourself and the dog rather than killing the dog?

Yes I would save my dog every single time. That's a completely different situation because I disagree with eating living things all together.

Lau2976

eviltwin wrote: »

I've had and lost many pets, it's terrible but not devastating. It's no way comparable to the pain of losing your spouse or a child.

Someone else's grief isn't my issue, it sounds harsh but it's reality. My family come first but if it's a stranger it will always be my dog without hesitation.

suicide_circus

DamagedTrax wrote: »

of course, my dog can swim better than you or i.




we have a dog with us. i think we should try hunting (something the animal has natural instincts for) before we go eating each other.

Ok in these scenarios, either me or your dog have to die and you must make the decision....which is it?

K4t

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i'd love you to explain a situation where i might die in exchange for the survival of someone's pet hamster.

A fire in a building in which you and a hamster are caught and the hamster owner runs into the building.

Answer this hypothetical so, if you were a lifeguard on duty and both your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would you choose? Your dog or the stranger?

suicide_circus

Lau2976 wrote: »

Yes I would save my dog every single time. That's a completely different situation because I disagree with eating living things all together.

That's worrying.

Ave Sodalis

eviltwin wrote: »

It's no way comparable to the pain of losing your spouse or a child.

To me it would be. My dog's getting old and I'm dreading the day he goes. I get emotional even thinking about it. But then, my dog is basically the only thing that kept me sane through rough patches in life so he's my support. When he goes, I'll be distraught.

But then, I'd value any animals life as much as humans. If it was a choice between saving an animal or a human, I'd make that decision as though it was two humans.

DamagedTrax

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok in these scenarios, either me or your dog have to die and you must make the decision....which is it?

sorry mate, but ive better chance of surviving without you. unless you have the hunting drive of my stafford, im better off.

but thats in an extreme hypothetical situation.. i'd try bring you along with us best as i can first

The other fella

Why wont K4t tell me how many times a week he eats dog?

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

That's worrying.

I don't distingush between the life of an animal or a person, how is that worrying? I wouldn't kill someone for the sake of an animal but if I had to choose I would make the decisions I've outlined.

suicide_circus

DamagedTrax wrote: »

sorry mate, but ive better chance of surviving without you. unless you have the hunting drive of my stafford, im better off.

but thats in an extreme hypothetical situation.. i'd try bring you along with us best as i can first

And how would you feel if I allowed your child/wife/friend to die in order to save my dog?

eviltwin

sup_dude wrote: »

To me it would be. My dog's getting old and I'm dreading the day he goes. I get emotional evening thinking about it. But then, my dog is basically the only thing that kept me sane through rough patches in life so he's my support. When he goes, I'll be distraught.

But then, I'd value any animals life as much as humans. If it was a choice between saving an animal or a human, I'd make that decision as though it was two humans.

I hope you never have to put that to the test. I've lost loved ones, human and animal, as hard as it is to lose your pet it's a lot harder to lose a friend or a child.

Ave Sodalis

suicide_circus wrote: »

And how would you feel if I allowed your child/wife/friend to die in order to save my dog?

Angry, even if it was justified. What a stupid question. If you let my partner die in order to save a child, I'd still be angry.

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

And how would you feel if I allowed your child/wife/friend to die in order to save my dog?

They'd probably feel the same why they would if you saved your child over theirs.

suicide_circus

Lau2976 wrote: »

I don't distingush between the life of an animal or a person, how is that worrying? I wouldn't kill someone for the sake of an animal but if I had to choose I would make the decisions I've outlined.

Fair enough. I think you've pretty much checked out of any right you have to participate in human society but ok.

Ave Sodalis

eviltwin wrote: »

I hope you never have to put that to the test. I've lost loved ones, human and animal, as hard as it is to lose your pet it's a lot harder to lose a friend or a child.

It has been "put to the test".

suicide_circus

sup_dude wrote: »

Angry, even if it was justified. What a stupid question. If you let my partner die in order to save a child, I'd still be angry.

Yes but I presume your partner is human

Ave Sodalis

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fair enough. I think you've pretty much checked out of any right you have to participate in human society but ok.

Bit extreme

Ave Sodalis

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yes but I presume your partner is human

My point still remains. If someone chose someone else over someone I love, that's going to piss me off. Whether it's dog, cat, or human.

Lau2976

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fair enough. I think you've pretty much checked out of any right you have to participate in human society but ok.

Well I think you have an undeveloped sense of morals so I suppose we all have different opinions

DamagedTrax

suicide_circus wrote: »

And how would you feel if I allowed your child/wife/friend to die in order to save my dog?

if you feel the same way about your dog as i do about mine, then thats something you'd have to do to save your family (if you consider your dog as family that is)

Magico Gonzalez

K4t wrote: »

That's fine, as long as you accept that potentially someday there might be a situation whereby a stranger may value their pet over you or your loved ones, allowing you or your wife or kid to die in exchange for the survival of their pet hamster.

I'm terribly pleased you think it's fine.

If someone values the life of their hamster above me AND it comes down to incredibly complicated situation where they have to chose between me and a hamster, I'll accept it.

Of course, it's a completely redundant point. Unless of course you expect me to believe that hammy the hamster might one day be granted the spot in a lifeboat as the ferry we were both travelling on sinks into the blue yonder.

"Sorry Magico, it's you or the hamster, and this lifeboat ain't big enough for both of you!"

Or maybe me and this other families goldfish will need urgent medical treatment, as i lie their uttering my last on the operating table I'll understand it completely if the fish gets priority.

Meanwhile, in the real world, these choices never occur. It's the same as the absurd nonsense that insists that some daft dogmatic (no pun intended) belief stops some people behaving pragmatically. Do I care about cockroaches? Nope, it's hot were I live and the come up through the drainage pipes. I don't shed any tears as I poison them.

I eat all sorts of meat, because I haven't formed any emotional relationship with that animal. Dogmatic logic might dictate that I don't have an emotional relationship with a stranger and that their death shouldn't cause me any concern. Of course, it would, because I am not a sociopath. However, if someone dies on the other side of the world does it cause me as much concern as the death of my dog, whom I genuinely consider a friend and a valued companion? Of course not. Anyone who would claim it would is a liar or spends literally every waking second in mourning for the death of people they have never met.

OldNotWIse

I'm so glad he survived.

If it were my dog, I'd consider it worth doing time for.

suicide_circus

sup_dude wrote: »

Bit extreme

Well if you put the life of a dog before that of an innocent human while sitting there enjoying the fruits of 40,000 years of human civilization you're a bad person.