A cyclist got my goat...

Mr Sheen!

beauf wrote: »

I'm taking you at your word. The reason to take the lane is to block unsafe overtaking. Whereas you've asked them to move over to facilitate overtaking on a "narrow twisty road" with "solid white line"



That would be overtaking on same road as above the "narrow twisty road" with the "solid white line"...

A motorcycle can safely pass a cyclist without crossing the White line on most stretches of road, 2 or 3 feet is more than enough of a safety margin to leave.

rat_race

leppla wrote: »

My apologies rat_face I'm on the mobile so predictive text must have corrected it.

I meant motortax paying.

See? Even your phone has to correct you.

Bicycles don't have motors. Because of their low speed and their light nature, they don't break up the road, at least not anywhere as much as car would. They don't need a police force checking and regulating their speeds all over the country. They don't produce emissions which another industry must spend billions trying to reduce. There are costs associated with driving large vehicles on roads, that bicycles simply don't incur.

Anyone who thinks cyclists should pay to use roads are kidding themselves. It'll never happen because rationality _usually_ wins the day.

rat_race

leppla wrote: »

A motorcycle can safely pass a cyclist without crossing the White line on most stretches of road, 2 or 3 feet is more than enough of a safety margin to leave.

1.5 metres, which is 5 feet, is what is required.

Mr Sheen!

rat_race wrote: »

See? Even your phone has to correct you.

Bicycles don't have motors. Because of their low speed and their light nature, they don't break up the road, at least not anywhere as much as car would. They don't need a police force checking and regulating their speeds all over the country. They don't produce emissions which another industry must spend billions trying to reduce.

Anyone who thinks cyclists should pay to use roads are kidding themselves. It'll never happen because rationality _usually_ wins the day.

I never said that a cyclist should pay motor tax?
Good rant though.;)

rat_race

leppla wrote: »

I never said that a cyclist should pay motor tax?
Good rant though.;)

You implied that they should, or that car drivers had more of a right on the road because they pay motor tax. As did several other people in this thread, or by ****e-ing on about some other payment such as insurance.

Not gonna get into a childish game of answering anything like "where? show me where I implied it? bahh bahhh". Any discerning reader will understand what I and you, meant.

rat_race

By the way, the only time I turn into a d|<khead (albeit a correct one) is on this topic.

I'm a pretty easy-going bloke otherwise ...


Everyone should put themselves in the shoes of other road users. It is much much easier said that done. I suggest actually doing it. As a cyclist, motorcyclist, car & van driver, I feel like I've got a good grasp. You think you're vulnerable on a motorbike? Try a bicycle. And I've said 100 times: there are idiots on the road, no matter what their mode of transport is. The solution is not to try to somehow tax a whole group because you're bitter some of them pissed you off.

Get on with your life, and accept that idiots will be idiots. The road is not yours, it's everyone's. Use your mirrors and stay out of each other's ways.

gerrowadat

leppla wrote: »

A motorcycle can safely pass a cyclist without crossing the White line on most stretches of road, 2 or 3 feet is more than enough of a safety margin to leave.

1.5 metres according to the RSA. And, god bless your eyesight and nerves if you're happy to have a motorist pass you at 80-100kph within 2 feet, and you're wearing no armour.

MayoAreMagic

rowanh wrote: »

I was thinking the other day how little i get pissed off while on the motorbike (while commuting) compare to when i used to cycle. Pretty much every single day when i was on the bicycle i would feel some level of anger often rage with people stepping out in front of me, cars pulling out in front of me and stopping, stopping in yellow boxes blocking me, buses overtaking me then pulling in to stop and essentially running me off the road etc etc. I used to want to attach a tack hammer to my crossbar to whack cars with. On the motorbike there is some of that but its much easier to control and avoid, also slowing down and speeding up is far less hassle.

Id believe it. Although people pull out in front of you and stop, or stop in yellow boxes in front of you, regardless of what vehicle you are using. However, to my mind, reading the above, it just shows that there is too much going on on our roads for cyclists and indeed motorists to get a fair shake. We know of buses cutting off cyclists which is hugely dangerous, but from the bus driver's standpoint, cyclists who are very often probably invisible to him, whizzing around his bus all day every day are probably the bain of his existence too. Then cyclists are going out into the next lane to avoid them and the same thing is happening with cars etc. The reality is we badly need separate cycle lanes and the current system will never work properly.

However, armed with that that knowledge, we could decide to not be so militant towards each other, because it is more the system at fault than one guy on a bike/bus/car. That would make things a fair bit easier - stop trying to show each other who is boss at every possible opportunity. The saying 'an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind' is apt in this situation.


Also, as for this nonsense about 'motor' tax with a bike not having a motor etc etc. Look, cyclists use the road, the road needs to be maintained, should they pay some sort of tax for it's use? Of course, same as everyone else.

rat_race

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Id believe it. Although people pull out in front of you and stop, or stop in yellow boxes in front of you, regardless of what vehicle you are using. However, to my mind, reading the above, it just shows that there is too much going on on our roads for cyclists and indeed motorists to get a fair shake. We know of buses cutting off cyclists which is hugely dangerous, but from the bus driver's standpoint, cyclists who are very often probably invisible to him, whizzing around his bus all day every day are probably the bain of his existence too. Then cyclists are going out into the next lane to avoid them and the same thing is happening with cars etc. The reality is we badly need separate cycle lanes and the current system will never work properly.

However, armed with that that knowledge, we could decide to not be so militant towards each other, because it is more the system at fault than one guy on a bike/bus/car. That would make things a fair bit easier - stop trying to show each other who is boss at every possible opportunity. The saying 'an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind' is apt in this situation.

Well said.

Max Headroom

To all the non-cyclists here...YOU WONT WIN...its like saying that their children are ugly...they take it toooo seriously...

Laters..

Mr Sheen!

gerrowadat wrote: »

1.5 metres according to the RSA. And, god bless your eyesight and nerves if you're happy to have a motorist pass you at 80-100kph within 2 feet, and you're wearing no armour.

Going by your 1.5 metres I have yet to see a cyclist leave themselves the correct distance from a motorised vehicle it dublin City.

rat_race

leppla wrote: »

Going by your 1.5 metres I have yet to see a cyclist leave themselves the correct distance from a motorised vehicle it dublin City.

Or a motorist, blah, blah, blah. Common sense should prevail for low-speed inner city traffic. The same way when you're driving a car in the city, you don't stay 3 car lengths behind the car in front. It's absurd, pointless, and would be needless.

beauf

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

...However, armed with that that knowledge, we could decide to not be so militant towards each other, because it is more the system at fault than one guy on a bike/bus/car. That would make things a fair bit easier - stop trying to show each other who is boss at every possible opportunity. The saying 'an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind' is apt in this situation.

+1

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Also, as for this nonsense about 'motor' tax with a bike not having a motor etc etc. Look, cyclists use the road, the road needs to be maintained, should they pay some sort of tax for it's use? Of course, same as everyone else.

Its the not the same as everyone else is they want to encourage people out of their cars and on to other forms of transport. Tax (or the lack of it) is used as a carrot and a stick to achieve this. Same way they encourage electric cars, and tax saver tickets on public transport.

MayoAreMagic

Exactly right rat_race. This 1.5 metres thing is fine, but the issue on this forum is any time the cyclist doesn't adhere to it nobody mentions it, but when the vehicle doesn't adhere to it, we get a raft of rules of the road experts quoting scriptures about the magical 1.5 metres. It's not fair. It is this group mentality thing that is the problem. Stop treating every fellow cyclist/motorist as your team mate. They aren't.

Mr Sheen!

rat_race wrote: »

Or a motorist, blah, blah, blah. Common sense should prevail for low-speed inner city traffic. The same way when you're driving a car in the city, you don't stay 3 car lengths behind the car in front. It's absurd, pointless, and would be needless.

If your gonna allow the rules to be bent it has to work both ways rat_race. I have no problem with a cyclist slipping though a very tight gap in traffic in town.

BUT cyclists seem to have a problem with anything over taking them out on the open road, If they stayed 1 or two abreast on a road with a solid white line ( rather than 10) other road users could use their "common sense" to overtake them when safe.

gerrowadat

leppla wrote: »

Going by your 1.5 metres I have yet to see a cyclist leave themselves the correct distance from a motorised vehicle it dublin City.

This is for overtakes.

Agreed on the town thing, mainly because the cycling infrastructure is ball-ology in Town. Properly separated bike lanes would be amazing in more places. Means fewer cyclists get in scrapes and a lowering of blood pressure from lads who have a chip on their shoulder around other kinds of vehicles.

beauf

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Exactly right rat_race. This 1.5 metres thing is fine, but the issue on this forum is any time the cyclist doesn't adhere to it nobody mentions it, but when the vehicle doesn't adhere to it, we get a raft of rules of the road experts quoting scriptures about the magical 1.5 metres. It's not fair. It is this group mentality thing that is the problem. Stop treating every fellow cyclist/motorist as your team mate. They aren't.

I think you are only seeing what you want to see. There is a sizeable anti cycling group on boards, and the media is anti cycling in general as it sells to the biggest common denominator which is drivers.

MayoAreMagic

beauf wrote: »

Its the not the same as everyone else is they want to encourage people out of their cars and on to other forms of transport. Tax (or the lack of it) is used as a carrot and a stick to achieve this. Same way they encourage electric cars, and tax saver tickets on public transport.

A fair point. But then if everyone goes on their bicycle, who pays for the road?

Mr Sheen!

This thread has gone way off topic lads.

I believe that in the OP the motorcyclist should not have blocked the gap of any other road user ( in this case the cyclist). It shows to me the rider was unaware of his surroundings, which he should never be.

If a car cant fit they should use their head and leave room for a motorcyclist.
If a motorbike cant fit they should leave room for a cyclist.
Then everyone can gt around.

Out on the open road however, cyclists ( in general ) are taking the piss blocking entire lanes, we see it every week on the sunday spins. 4 and 5 abreast having a chat pedaling up the road is not very safe IMO.

rat_race

leppla wrote: »

If your gonna allow the rules to be bent it has to work both ways rat_race. I have no problem with a cyclist slipping though a very tight gap in traffic in town.

BUT cyclists seem to have a problem with anything over taking them out on the open road, If they stayed 1 or two abreast on a road with a solid white line ( rather than 10) other road users could use their "common sense" to overtake them when safe.

What I just said, is exactly showing that the rules can be bent both ways. I just said, nobody reasonable expects a cyclist or motorist to obey the 1.5 metre rule in tight city centre conditions, the same way nobody reasonable expects 3 car lengths between cars in tight city centre conditions. These are RSA "rules" -- not laws (I guess), when not obeyed in certain contexts/circumstances, constitutes dangerous driving.

Get off your ass and go for an hour-long cycle around the city centre. See how it feels to be thrashed about by a small subset of motorists (the blind and dumb ones).

Danjamin1

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

A fair point. But then if everyone goes on their bicycle, who pays for the road?

It comes out of general taxation so everyone pays for it in some way.

The cyclist sounds like a clown.

The motorbike shouldn't have been in the bus lane.

Mr Sheen!

rat_race wrote: »

What I just said, is exactly showing that the rules can be bent both ways. I just said, nobody reasonable expects a cyclist or motorist to obey the 1.5 metre rule in tight city centre conditions, the same way nobody reasonable expects 3 car lengths between cars in tight city centre conditions. These are RSA "rules" -- not laws (I guess), when not obeyed in certain contexts/circumstances, constitutes dangerous driving.

Get off your ass and go for an hour-long cycle around the city centre. See how it feels to be thrashed about by a small subset of motorists (the blind and dumb ones).

I dont take orders :cool:

beauf

leppla wrote: »

...Out on the open road however, cyclists ( in general ) are taking the piss blocking entire lanes, we see it every week on the sunday spins. 4 and 5 abreast having a chat pedaling up the road is not very safe IMO.

They would believe it to be safer. I can't comment I don't cycle out in the country. In the city it can make a lot of sense to take the lane sometimes, and can be much safer. I would expect if slow moving, regardless of vehicle, you'd stop and pull in from time to time to let the queue past. If one is building up.

beauf

Theres an irony in arguing for cyclist to be in their own lane, and out of the main traffic. Then driving in that lane with them.

lucanone

Some amount of Sh!te in this thread...all because some lad rang his bell at a biker...shock horror....Majority of Cyclists are a joke in this country and only have themselves to blame...rules of the roads and cyclists are poles apart! Some dodgy bikers to but no where near as bad.

Before you I ask i drive the following:
minimoto
trike scooter
unicycle
car
bicycle
truck
planes
spaceships
etc etc yawn

Skill Magill

lucanone wrote: »

Some amount of Sh!te in this thread...all because some lad rang his bell at a biker...shock horror....Majority of Cyclists are a joke in this country and only have themselves to blame...rules of the roads and cyclists are poles apart! Some dodgy bikers to but no where near as bad.

Before you I ask i drive the following:
minimoto
trike scooter
unicycle
car
bicycle
truck
planes
spaceships
etc etc yawn

I have deathstar and may need your services, does your spaceship have a bell?

dubscottie

rat_race wrote: »

1.5 metres, which is 5 feet, is what is required.

1.5m is a recommendation NOT a legal requirement..

There is nothing in the Road Traffic Act which is the law (not the rules of the road).

And according to a Garda friend of mine ( and from my own experience) they have no issue with bikes in bus lanes as long as they don't take the piss.. Its safer than filtering between slow or stationary traffic..

Had the cops behind me in the bus lane on the N11 many a time and never got pulled once..

rat_race

dubscottie wrote: »

1.5m is a recommendation NOT a legal requirement..

There is nothing in the Road Traffic Act which is the law (not the rules of the road).

And according to a Garda friend of mine ( and from my own experience) they have no issue with bikes in bus lanes as long as they don't take the piss.. Its safer than filtering between slow or stationary traffic..

Had the cops behind me in the bus lane on the N11 many a time and never got pulled once..

Yes, 1.5m is not a law. Lots of the RSA "rules" are just recommendations, but breaking them in the context they were intended for, often equals dangerous driving (which *is* breaking the law). The fact that the RSA has to tell motorists to keep a distance of 1.5m, shows that the majority of motorists have no idea how dangerous it is to have a car zoom past a bicycle at any lower distances than that.

Regarding the bus lanes, I have found the same, no cops have ever stopped me. But I don't take the piss, or bomb along either. But you can always find people who say they've been given words from the cops. Chances are they were probably driving badly and deserved it.

beauf

They must be ok with all the other stuff they don't enforce then.

Again it's a bit ironic to complain about cyclists blocking and need to be in a separated lane if you ignore the rules and go into that lane. Many bikes use the cycle lanes regularly.

Mesrine65

To the cyclist who broke a red light while turning right onto the Terenure Road last night, forcing me to brake hard, nearly dumping the bike & then giving me two fingers....

I hope you got your fingers splinted, you'll not be giving anyone else the fingers for a while.

I shouldn't have reacted but I did, can't change the past.

I hope we both learned a valuable lesson.